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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1727
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hadn't been to the Dossin Museum since I was about, oh, 10? Went during the Shiver on the River to show my girlfriend the Gothic Room from the City of Detroit III and have fallen in love with this steamer. Working on a page for my Web site on it, but it's hard to find good, concrete info (how much was a ride to Cleveland, anyway?) on it or the D&C line.
My question: Does anyone know of any good books on this steamer (or the D&C line)?
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 686
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

bump
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 781
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A History Of The Detroit And Cleveland Navigation Company, 1860-1951" is a doctoral dissertation written by Francis Duncan at the University of Chicago in 1954. That's the closest I've found to a book about the D&C. They might have it at Dossins in their library.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1523
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of the most complete publications covering the City of Detroit III as well as the other vessels comprising the old D and C Navigation Company is "The Night Boat", written by historian George W. Hilton in 1968. Several photos and interesting text, including a picture of the Gothic Room. I rate it tops.
Great Lakes Ships We Remember, a 1979 publication of the Great Lakes Historical Society also has several photographs of all the D and C boats and highlights the D III.
I was on the Board of the Dossin when we raised the $$ to purchase the Gothic Room by selling cancelled stock certificates of the D and C Line, and even spent a Saturday afternoon or two doing some of the rough carpentry work during it's installation. Bob Lee, then curator at the Dossin, lost the tip of his finger using a power saw!
It is a very impressive room, and one year my law firm met at the Dossin and we had our firm Christmas card photo taken with the ship's bell and the Gothic room as the background.
The ship's bell was a donation from the Ketchum family of Birmingham. I remember visiting them when it was in their back yard garden.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Rock, I'd love to get more from you on this for my site, if you're willing. Best way to contact?

And if the books are published in '54 and '68, that means it's gonna be nigh impossible to find one. Rats. Thanks, though, I'll keep checking eBay, John King and the like.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 3327
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Try Amazon for those hard to find books. And Overstock.com.

Here is a link to the "Bible" of local shipping. "Around the lakes" history of Detroit drydock company.

If one can find a copy of this book it is around 600 dollars. Luckily, at this website, the book is displayed in it's entirety.


http://www.hhpl.on.ca/GreatLak es/scripts/Bib.asp?PubID=35
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 509
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I suspect that University of Chicago dissertation from 1954 might be in their own library... perhaps some kind of inter-library loan could be worked out to get a copy?

Great Lakes Ships We Remember is a fairly easy find if you know where to look. Seems like there are photos of several D&C liners in there.

You're right in that there is not much information about these big boats online... you really have to hunt around to find the slightest little write up about them or any photos.

It's totally amazing that not a single one of the Great Lakes liners from the first half of the 20th century survived. The closest thing that remains are the two Bob-Lo boats, Columbia & Ste. Claire, which makes it all the more important that one or both of them are preserved for future generations!

Sometimes when doing online searches, it can be helpful to search for other similar boats of the same era. You might find other references to the boat you're looking for. Perhaps a hunt for some of the other D&C boats, or the "Put-in-Bay" might turn up something else? I was just looking at a collection of photos of the Ashley and Dustin Steamer Line "Put-In-Bay" this past week. Broke my heart to see how they got rid of those ships back in the day! We're really lucky they preserved that room in the Dossin Museum!
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1735
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Rock, there are several volumes of "G.L.S.W.R." Is the D&C line featured in the first volume?
Got "Night Boat." The dissertation might be trickier to get a copy of. I'm looking to add to my collection of books on Detroit history, not just borrow from the library. :-)
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 782
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep in mind there are 2 volumes of Great Lakes Ships We Remember. I don't remember which one has the City of Detroit III, but D&C liners are scattered through both volumes. Hilton's book is out of print, but Amazon has a bunch of copies available through dealers starting at about $14.

Hilton also wrote THE book on on railroad car ferries, "The Great Lakes Car Ferries", which is worth picking up if you have any interest in that operation. His railroad historys are also very well written.

There's also a bit of a discussion of the D&C liners in the Hall Of Fame thread "Vintage Kodachrome-Detroit Landmarks, 1955-1977". The discussion of the boats is in the second part of the thread (go to it from the HOF tab and it takes you to part 2) but the whole thread is worth revisiting. Mikeg's pictures are fasinating.....
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Busterwmu
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Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 510
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rawk-
Good luck getting an actual complete copy of this dissertation. From a friend of mine who works for the Detroit Historical Museum:

"Duncan's paper is very good, but is not available in one source - it was serialized in monthly installments of Inland Seas back in the 1950's, over several years. The WSU Engineering library has them for review - reference basis only."

I'll try to get the exact dates of the Inland Seas publications and will report back later this week.

Douglas, thanks for the headsup on the HOF thread... I had been checking that thread back in the fall, but must have stopped before we started talking about boats. Great photos and information over there.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1524
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am glad you were able to secure "Night Boat", Rhawk. One correction, however, to my post. GLSWR was published by our own Marine Historical Society of Detroit, not the GLHS. There are actually three separate volumes of GLSWR of which I am aware ( I have all three), and the one I refer to regarding the D III is the first publication, edited by the late Father Peter Van Der Linden. Fr. Pete was a real historian and a Jesuit priest, too! The original volume has a blue dust jacket with a black and white photo of the Edmund Fitzgerald on it.
Click on to www.mhsd.org and you will go to their website and you can see a color photo of all 3 volumes and they have a nice post on the D III, too.
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Zitro
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Username: Zitro

Post Number: 2703
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rawk: I have 2 copies of The Detroit Daily Advertiser 1841 & 1843 and they have a lot of info about the ship lines and railroad lines including prices and schedules. I had these pics on my FB page and don't have them in front of me to know if it has any info on this particular line, but I'd be surprised if it didn't. It might be a secondary source to look for on ebay if you can't find exactly what you're looking for.















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Professorscott
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Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1801
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The world was a different place. They advertise that you can go to Goderich and Oswego. In 2009, who travels to either place?

My dear old granddad, God rest his soul, lived in Oswego, a city most known for getting upwards of eight feet of snow in a 24 hour period.

Goderich is on the southeastern shore of Lake Huron, maybe 80 miles from Port Huron, if you're wondering. Oswego is in New York State, on the south shore of Lake Ontario, 2 hours east of Buffalo.
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 501
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


City Of Detroit III
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Bobl
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Username: Bobl

Post Number: 502
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

P: "They advertise that you can go to Goderich and Oswego. In 2009, who travels to either place?"

Goderich is a great weekend getaway. Three beaches! One can view the sunset twice....if one can run up the steps on the sand dune quickly enough.
We like to stay at the Hotel Bedford. Old world charm of a different era, great lobby and attached bar/restaurant.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1525
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of us old boat buffs even ventured to Goderich in the dead of winter and went aboard several of the Algoma boats which wintered there and also crawled around the old Patterson boats, some of which were tied up as grain storage boats. A couple of the old whaleback freighters were in the harbor, too. Those were really old!
One winter we even ventured into the local cemetery ( up to your knees in snow) just to locate and take a picture of the Monument dedicated to those who lost their lives in the Great Storm of 1913.
Another year we took the name board off the old Altadoc which was going to the scrap heap anyway. They had little security on the boats then, and if you got a friendly caretaker on board, things went much easier. We had a devil of a time getting through customs ( we would probably be arrested today ), but the board is now hanging from the ceiling of the Dossin Museum with boards from several other vessels that no longer ply the lakes.
Goderich caters to the tourists big-time in the summer, but still provided a lot of fun for some of us in February. We always stopped off for a chicken sandwich and a bottle ( or two )of Molson's Canadian at the Hotel Bedford.
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Douglasm
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Username: Douglasm

Post Number: 783
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to TRIS Online, the Duncan "History Of..." is available from University Microfilm. Hate to think of what the cost might be, though.

http://ntlsearch.bts.gov/tris/ record/tris/00881548.html

The link in the article doesn't work, but I assume one could get in touch with UMI (or whatever it's called now) for information.



(Message edited by douglasm on February 16, 2009)
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Guideboat
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Username: Guideboat

Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rawk, I have a copy of "The night Boats." Give me a few days and I'll scan the pertinent pages.
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Guideboat
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Username: Guideboat

Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oops, just read the posts better and saw you got a copy. Never mind.

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