Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Habitat For Humanity Statistics « Previous Next »
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 114
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I plan on coming to Detroit this year to work on Habitat homes and visited their website and noted this paragraph:

Our current target area is the city of Detroit with a population of 951,000. The poverty rate is 21.7%, or 47,920 families below poverty level; 37.3% or 2,262 families have incomes under $25,000. Over 81% of the homes are over 40 years old. See below for our service and target area.

OVER 81% OF HOMES ARE OVER 40 YEARS OLD.

Hhmm, doesn't that coincide sort of with the Riots of 1967? New home construction, though it might be a Verboten topic on this forum with all the preservationists (including me) is good for a community isn't it?

New home and business contruction brings in good paying, skill based jobs. It reaffirms down trodden neighborhoods and stops blight.

In Des Moines, we have a "poor" section of town that 25 to 30 years ago was really bad. It aples in comparison size-wise to Detroits neighborhoods but it was a blight nonetheless. Higher crime, some prostitution, drugs, gangs.

Now it is pot marked with Habitat homes and overall would resemble a "decent" inner city neighborhood. Older homes have been refurbished. It is multi-ethnic. The old frame homes that were there were not architecturally significant so it is an improvement. Some homes that are - have been saved by yuppies and similar preservationist types.

But still, 81% of homes are over 40 years old?
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5261
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Age of a building means little. It's lifetime maintenance and current condition are what matter. The house I grew up in is now 85 years old and better than most modern builds.

New home construction doesn't mean squat when people can't afford to buy them. Grants to refurbish existing structures would be more beneficial than tearing down and building new.
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Pkbroch
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Username: Pkbroch

Post Number: 234
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What kind of work will you be doing with them and who are you working with in Detroit.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 965
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm surprised in the opposite direction: 19% of the homes in Detroit were built after 1968? Most of the "newer" neighborhoods of Detroit were filled in shortly after WWII. Even the inner ring of suburbs were pretty well filled in by 1968. What am I missing? Where are these "new" homes?
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 966
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Building permits issued from 1969 to 2008:
-Single family homes: 5193
-2 family homes: 376
-Attached condos: 1217
-Multi-family homes: 19,740
-Total: 26,526

5193
Divided by 375,096 housing units (in 2000)
------------------------------ ---------
=1.38%

26,526
Divided by 375,096
------------------------------ --------
=7.07%

(Source: http://www.semcog.org/Data/App s/permits.report.cfm & Hudkina)
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 577
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

pup,

You are totally correct. I have always felt that habitat needs to change its focus in Detroit.

I don't understand why they choose to build a new house when there are sooooo many they could rehab.

I'll bet they could rehab a lot of homes for the price of one new home.
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Penelopetheduck
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Username: Penelopetheduck

Post Number: 31
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

eh, I don't know about that 321brian.

It depends on the house, of course. But so many houses in the more blighted areas of the city have been abandoned for a long time and/or weren't that high quality to begin with. Sometimes it seems that with higher quality comes more trouble anyway. A house in Brightmoor was never well made and might not be worth fixing. A house in Woodbridge might be very high quality and so have a lot of high quality costly stuff to fix.
Habitat's got building cheap, good qaulity houses down to a science.
Plus, the places that Habitat has built recently, like North Corktown, were pretty heavily prairie when they first came in.
Because of their stringent requirements, a Habitat neighborhood is going to be safe, more stable and have more active neighbors than a regular neighborhood. That's what we need so badly here.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 2225
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I don't understand why they choose to build a new house when there are sooooo many they could rehab.



Most of their donated material and volunteer labor is provided by local companies and their tradespeople who are in the new construction business, not rehab. They want to get in, do their part and get out of the way of the next crew of tradespeople.
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Thoswolfe
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Username: Thoswolfe

Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully, Habitat For Humanity will succeed this time with a large scale project.

Habitat built a number of new houses by Schoolcraft/ Evergreen about 10-12 years ago.

Only the best of intentions, and anything that could go wrong, seemed to.

Some of the homeowners sued to abandon their houses, citing severe building defects.(and, yes the homeowners themselves did some of the work as part of their agreement...)

It does seem that the new Habitat Humanity homes in Brightmoor make the neighborhood more attractive, since the existing housing there was not very suitable for renovations.
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 578
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since when can't plumbers, carpenters, electricians...etc. do work on existing homes?

I just don't see the point in letting perfectly structurally sound buildings in existing neighborhoods sitting to rot and building a new home in the middle of a bunch of vacant lots.

I'm not saying they don't do good work. I'm just saying there is waste involved. In my opinion.
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1936
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Off the top of my head

1) It's easier, faster and safer to build new and many of their volunteers (including me) are not professionals

2) It's easier and cheaper to obtain title to empty lots (or lots where the building is down) than where the building is up, the owner is holding out for cash or you can't find them, etc

3) Many of the donated supplies are geared toward modular build

4) Putting new in a mix of the old will generate growth, interest and hopefully people fixing up their current places around the new places
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321brian
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Username: 321brian

Post Number: 579
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1. probably.
2. maybe.
3. crappy materials = crappy houses
4. nope. it is better to fill in the blanks in still decent existing neighborhoods (example: 7/greenfield) than to build in terrible neighborhoods( example: brightmoor)


i still think renovating 50-60 year old houses that are solidly built and in many cases have excellent craftsmanship trumps building new modular stapled together pieces of junk.

and honestly renovating isn't difficult for unskilled volunteers with decent skilled supervision.
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 117
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

New homes are not as well built - technically - as some older homes. I think Detroit had an abundance of wealth at times when neighborhoods were booming so this led to a better overall quality of house.

New homes through up partical board as a base for the siding BUT have superior insulation. Typically the boards used are 2 x 4's or 2 x 6's - the same as in the old days.

Also floorpans are more modern for modern use purposes, then the homes Detroit built 70 years ago.

As I said, I am a preservationist but we are in th eminority. So, if a Habitat home is properly built and with the owner's sweat equity, this is good for Detroit.

***

I plan on signing up and coming in June so who knows? where I will be asked to help. In the evenings I can drive around and check out Detroit landmarks.
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 2226
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

i still think renovating 50-60 year old houses that are solidly built and in many cases have excellent craftsmanship trumps building new modular stapled together pieces of junk.



Well then, instead of pissing and moaning about how you disagree with HfH's "new build" policy, you have two options, either join HfH's management board and try to effect change from within or form your own non-profit housing organization to rehab existing structures into simple, decent, affordable housing in partnership with people in need.

The fact is, much of the volunteer work on HfH homes is performed by skilled tradespeople who volunteer through their employer, who donates the material. What you would like to see simply won't work within the way HfH operates. You can get many more volunteers when they know exactly when and what they will be doing and much more donated materials when the donor can order by the truckload.

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