Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Retail Intervention/Glimmer of Hope (Zaccaro's, etc.) « Previous Next »
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Waymooreland
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Username: Waymooreland

Post Number: 106
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"With the economic downturn killing downtown Detroit retailers at a brutal pace, a $5 million loan program is being launched to create more storefront businesses from the New Center area to the Eastern Market to Corktown.

'Imagine if we didn't step in and help?'
Blaszkiewicz said. 'We need to improve the chance of success and provide services to the communities and spark more opportunities.'

Despite the demise of Zaccaro's Market, the area can support a boutique grocer, possibly in the same 3100 Woodward Ave. location Zaccaro's is leaving, fund officials said.

'We hope to find another grocer to take over that space. We've identified three potential groups that have shown some interest,' Blaszkiewicz said."

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20090211/B IZ/902110342
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 9383
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Despite the demise of Zaccaro's Market, the area can support a boutique grocer, possibly in the same 3100 Woodward Ave. location Zaccaro's is leaving, fund officials said.



So the insinuation here is that they just didn't run the business well? But somebody else could do the exact same thing in the exact same place and succeed? Hmm.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5252
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You must have missed the Zaccaro's thread

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/175420.html?1234308776
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 9386
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah I was avoiding it. I've seen where those threads go.
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Detroiterbychoice
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Username: Detroiterbychoice

Post Number: 167
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CO-OP!
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1090
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be great if someone else could open up in the space... I must say that a coop would work there but it would have to be stream lined Z's didn't work for many reasons one of which was the fact that workers were stretched to thin because there were too many entities needed staffing they needed minimum of 8 workers there at a time. With some rearanging and maybe even using a few of Z's staff members who are more on the earthy side it could work...
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5256
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's steep rent for a co-op though - over $8,300/month.

Maybe if rents would drop some more businesses could make it.
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Urbanoutdoors
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Username: Urbanoutdoors

Post Number: 1091
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah it would have to be closer to 5000... The catering kitchen is amazing if a seperate business like slows to go could come in and utilize it it would make the rent cheaper for the front and would be an Ideal space for there catering opps...
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W_chicago
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Username: W_chicago

Post Number: 96
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there is more foot trafic than one might think. Also, development of Detroit is a "if we build it they will come" project. We can argue over what came first, no people walking led to no stores or no stores led to no walking (chicken vs. egg), or we can ignore that paradigm, and just build. More foot trafic will come, we just have to get out of this downward spiral that has hurt the City time and time again. (no use for the building?? old solution: tear it down, and let an empty lot sit for 40 years.... new solution: let it is, and it will probably get developed before 40 years).
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 1236
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's the economy stupid." But that is really what is killing everything. Like I said another thread, retailers nation-wide are having problems. I except that we will see more go through bankruptcy and liquidation in the coming months.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 1333
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My comment from the other thread still stands; the rent sank the deal even if they otherwise knew what they were doing.

Here's how supermarkets pay rent: They pay a very nominal amount to cover amortized buildout (if paid by the landlord), utilities, real estate taxes, insurance, CAM and an OVERAGE. An overage is the LL's share of the gross sales (minus cigarette and possibly a couple other items) over a negotiated floor amount.

For that space, they should not have paid over $2.00/sq ft. plus a percentage of the gross. If the landlord in the Zaccaro case had any idea of what it was doing it would never have signed the lease it did and found itself in the situation it now finds itself.

Successful landlords have the ability to determine in advance whether the tenant will succeed, and more importantly, what their expected gross will be and what kind of overage to demand. Landlords have to know their tenant's businesses as well as the tenant does. Here, neither had any idea of what they were doing.
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Waymooreland
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Username: Waymooreland

Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdworldcity: I think you summed things up beautifully.

It's important that we see Zaccaro's failure for what it truly is and not jump to the conclusion that it failed because the greater downtown area cannot support that type of business. There probably was enough of a customer base to support Zaccaro's had the conditions of lease been more reasonable.
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Ashdetroit
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Username: Ashdetroit

Post Number: 58
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was at Zaccaro's tonight and Cindy said she was working on a last-minute deal to save the store. Fingers crossed. This has been a bad week for Detroit lovers.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 426
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$8300 rent?

Is there an address/phone number where we can get in touch with Cindy's landlord? NOTHING in the city that size should cost that much... I understand that landlords want to make money, but sheesh!

(I heard Agave went under because of landlord issues as well. Perhaps commercial rent control in the D?)
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Softailrider
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Username: Softailrider

Post Number: 273
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I say bullshit to these gourmet grocers, what Detroit needs is a Meijer or a Wallmart Supercenter in the city where people can shop, get a good selection of food at competive prices. Like people do in the suburbs.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 432
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 2:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or an urban Trader Joe's...
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Original63
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Username: Original63

Post Number: 472
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 8:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the suburban prices are not as good as you think.

The quality is way better on a consistent basis but knowing where to shop is as importatnt as being able to get to the stores
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4384
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This new loaning entity sounds promising and is exactly what we need now.

If I were the City, I'd be looking at those huge empty blocks along and west of Woodward, across from Brush Park, and trying to coerce a full-scale grocer to locate there. Put a half-size parking lot in behind it and start selling those urban pull-carts for groceries to local residents.

And yeah, Zaccaro's lease is absurd, but they did sign it. I would think at this point, though, a landlord-- seeing that nobody else is going to be coming along anytime soon-- might reduce the rent for a year. Why would no rent income be better than slightly less than 8300?

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