Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 238 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 7:20 am: | |
Governor Jenny's State of State was not an address, it was a speech. It's bad enough she lied to us, we haven't been "blown away" as previously promised, now she chirps, "wait until 2020"......keep shaking thos pom-poms Jenny, yep, you're a great cheerleader, but a lousy governor. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5662 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 8:04 am: | |
What's the difference between a speech and an address? |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 4459 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 8:29 am: | |
YAY GRANHOLM! I will support her to the end of the term. I'm glad that she made some cuts to the Michigan State Fair. Now all the rich folks can reach deep down their fat juicy wallets and make a charitable donation for your priceless arts. I'm glad that she make a freeze on College Tuitions. Now all of your folks MUST work had to the bone to send your kids to college. Like John F. Kennedy said " Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do your for country." That's is what the U.S. Gov't is doinf right now. So deal with it. Democracy is not a perfect regime. |
Jcole Member Username: Jcole
Post Number: 5664 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 8:41 am: | |
quote:I'm glad that she make a freeze on College Tuitions. Now all of your folks MUST work had to the bone to send your kids to college. Um, freezing tuition is to make it EASIER to attend college, not more difficult. |
Kenp Member Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1330 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 8:55 am: | |
I think he meant you have to work harder when its cold out. |
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1860 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 8:59 am: | |
I liked Danny's post. I think he meant scholarships. My mom was bummed about the State Fair and I am too, but it does seem that cuts need to be made and someone will be hurt. |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1895 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:01 am: | |
I don't recall anyone calling Engler "Johnny", but perhaps we are now enjoying the undertones of petty sexism. So, I won't respond with a serious critique of the address in such a stupid post. |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 4950 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:03 am: | |
Just curious- did you refer to our previous Gov. as "Johnny"? |
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo
Post Number: 434 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:07 am: | |
How about "Jackass"? |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 239 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:29 am: | |
Poor, poor Jenny. Too bad she's driving for the next two years and we're stuck in the backseat. Windmills and movies, now there's a plan! Why didn't she update us on being "blown away"? Substitute "your wallet" everytime she said investment or help and the picture becomes all too clear. |
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth
Post Number: 727 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:29 am: | |
^^ I'm sure Ongowwah, Karl , or whatever his name is this week would still tell us what a great Governor Johnny was - after all he's a Republican isnt he?! |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 240 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:35 am: | |
And I'm sure others on this thread will continue to change the subject from Governess Jenny and the lousy job she's done and is doing - after all, she's a democrat isn't she?! Hang in there folks, Jenny's new "blown away" date is now 2020....egads! |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 4952 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:37 am: | |
quote:Windmills and movies, now there's a plan! A plan that is having success. Remind us again about what Little Dickie Devos's jobs plan was? |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 243 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:40 am: | |
Ahhhh, true to form, another swerve from Jenny, this time to a man not even in office. How desperate you all are....HA-ha! |
Wally Member Username: Wally
Post Number: 552 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:49 am: | |
I didn't see or hear the governor's address, but if there's one good thing Granholm has done, it was to make moves to bring the movie industry here. If there's anything Michigan needs, it's a diverse business climate. Now if the Michigan legislature can just work on lowering taxes for all businesses to operate in our state. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 1077 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:25 am: | |
I watched Mike Bishop's response. He proposed cutting taxes. He didn't propose what he would cut to offset those tax cuts. I'm sure "Ongowwah" will tell us how cutting taxes generates more revenue even though the opposite occurred when Engler cut taxes. The Ongowwah's of the world are long on complaints, short on solutions other than "take care of the haves and screw the have-nots". |
Kenp Member Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1336 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:33 am: | |
I agree with Wally. I personally can only take a few minutes of Granholm cheerleading. She is hard to listen to so I didnt hear the whole address. However kudos to her for the movie deals. I think the movie industry coming here is a great step forward. Look at all the people we have in this state who have the talent needed to work in this industry. Dont cut taxes and dont raise taxes, cut out the fat in our state government. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 5206 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:44 am: | |
I wish we could lose half of the legislature if it means keeping HAL. Hopefully the best parts of HAL will be absorbed by another department. I can't imagine the library and museum being shut down. |
Baselinepunk Member Username: Baselinepunk
Post Number: 85 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:45 am: | |
I heard most of it last night and came away with mixed reviews. College tuition is a serious issue due to the amounts of recent increases. However, if what said was true about the record enrollment (as of this year) there should be no real reason to jack tuition through the roof. While I feel pretty good about my decision to wait out this storm in college, I'm pissed that I've come into the system during a time of HUGE tuition increases. Makes me think that the "institutes of higher learning" are getting it while the gettin` is good. I say freeze for at least the next 3 years, not just one. Wind, solar, etc ... I've always been a big fan and think that should continue by any means prudent. Buy Michigan may make a good bumper sticker, but that's not truly realistic in a globalize economy. With WalMart revenues are through the roof, which suggests more patronage due to the low prices. How many products from Michigan can be bought from WalMart? Enough for subsistence? The Republican response was awful. I don't like to pay high taxes; however, all I heard from them was "going to cut this tax, and this tax, and that tax" with NO information about how to fill the gap left by cutting. It's the old horse "cut it and they (business) will come", which runs counter to Patty's line of "I've attracted all this business to Oakland County!" BS. Also, cutting revenue during a time of budget deficit without any means to fill the gap smacks of panning for votes. Generally, there was no real "big idea" presented to solve the economic issues now, or even short-term. Personally, I think that her speech was not really meant for us. Rather, I get the feeling it was more of a presentation to the Federal level about what we're capable of, what we're trying to do, what could happen ... if only we had some more money. Put simply ... lobbying for a nice chunk of stimulus. |
Baselinepunk Member Username: Baselinepunk
Post Number: 86 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:50 am: | |
"I can't imagine the library and museum being shut down." I can because it's a stupid idea, ergo, it will happen. lol. There was a lot of stuff she was saying that say "will do" that actually requires amendments to the State constitution, or action of the legislature ... like the pay cuts. Really, cutting HAL and even the Fair amounts to pennies savings. |
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 1210 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:53 am: | |
Lilpup - I believe that everything that HAL oversees will remain, but the bureaucracy will be merged with another department, and 3rd parties will be looked to for funding and running of the buildings. HAL also does lots of research orientated stuff, and I believe that this is the area where most of the cuts will be made |
Kenp Member Username: Kenp
Post Number: 1337 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:57 am: | |
"HAL also does lots of research orientated stuff" They post on Dyes alot |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 886 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:57 am: | |
Re: Wind & Solar: Once the Alternate Energy Mania dies out and people realize that they are not realistic options for generating sizable replacement of existing sources, these make-do industries will flop. Re: Movie Industry: The only reason this industry has moved here is because of the very generous - and hurtful to Michigan - tax breaks. Those very same tax breaks that Liberals insist don't work. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 2169 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 11:13 am: | |
quote:Re: Wind & Solar: Once the Alternate Energy Mania dies out and people realize that they are not realistic options for generating sizable replacement of existing sources, these make-do industries will flop. The alternative energy proponents ignore the fact that the current electric distribution grid is totally inadequate for storing and distributing energy from large-scale intermittent sources such as wind and solar.
quote:The only reason this industry has moved here is because of the very generous - and hurtful to Michigan - tax breaks. Those very same tax breaks that Liberals insist don't work. Now, now - those aren't "tax breaks", they're "incentives" and "investments in our future"! |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9321 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 11:20 am: | |
quote:The alternative energy proponents ignore the fact that the current electric distribution grid is totally inadequate for storing and distributing energy from large-scale intermittent sources such as wind and solar. Coincidentally, one of Obama's goals is improvements to the current electric distribution grid. Huh! Go figure. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9322 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 11:23 am: | |
quote:The only reason this industry has moved here is because of the very generous - and hurtful to Michigan - tax breaks. Those very same tax breaks that Liberals insist don't work. I'm confused... So tax breaks are hurtful to Michigan? But Liberals say they don't work? So you agree with Liberals? I know it's easy to just complain, but you have to pick one side of the issue. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1757 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 11:25 am: | |
The speech was vague and fluffy, and Mike Bishop's response was worse. Few notes on other topics within this thread: If alternative energy can't be made to work, we are eventually doomed, since oil is a finite resource in the sense that we use it up much faster than it can be produced. Targeting industries with tax advantages is just about the only weapon states have anymore with which to fight. The reason we need to fight for any industry whatever is our national industrial policy which encourages manufacturing jobs to move overseas; there's so little work left that the states have to do battle for it. Shutting down the library and the state fair are for the most part symbolic gestures; they do almost nothing to plug the gap. It would be like if you were $5,000 behind on your mortgage, so you decide to quit chewing gum. More meaningful, potentially, will be to see in detail what the plans are to reform corrections and to vastly reduce the number of state employees. That's bad if you're a state employee, but $1.6B is a lot of hole to plug. |
Big_baby_jebus Member Username: Big_baby_jebus
Post Number: 55 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:05 pm: | |
Is there somewhere I can get the video of the whole address. I tried Youtube, no luck. Thanks |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 890 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:22 pm: | |
Johnlodge, giving tax breaks to new businesses puts more of the tax burden proportionally on those established businesses and citizens who do not get tax breaks. I am in favor of tax reduction, but it should be uniform. |
Wally Member Username: Wally
Post Number: 554 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:43 pm: | |
These movie productions are paying tax money to the state that would not have existed without them filming here. I don't see how that burdens existing businesses. "Business X" still pays the same amount of taxes whether or not "Movie Business Y" films here or not. But I agree 100% of the need for better tax structuring across the board. |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 893 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:29 pm: | |
Wally, if you're paying your landlord $1000 in rent and a person moving in next door to you pays $700 in rent, then you are paying proportionately more for rent. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 2568 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:00 pm: | |
Retroit: "Wally, if you're paying your landlord $1000 in rent and a person moving in next door to you pays $700 in rent, then you are paying proportionately more for rent." False comparison. The film tax breaks are for ALL film-makers, not just "the person next door"; BOTH companies would benefit. Secondly, the discount structure you complain about above happens in cities, townships, and villages who give new, and expanding, companies 12-year "Exemptions From Tax" incentives. These new companies get a lighter tax load then their established competitors. Why aren't you bitching about this? Also, as a good capitalist, you know that stores routinely offer discounts for coupons, special one-day sales, and other incentives. One customer ends up paying more than the next customer for the same item - under capitalism. So you are advocating mandated, one-price-for everyone? Doesn't sound like capitalism, more like something Fidel would appreciate. |
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1704 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:23 pm: | |
Tax revenue will be recovered when more businesses open up due to the movie industry. Caterers, security guards, and supply houses will open up shop because there will be a demand where there once was not. Also, it will create jobs that help support the industry.
quote:cut out the fat in our state government. You must have missed the part about all elected officials taking a 10% pay cut. It was at the beginning. |
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit
Post Number: 1211 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:25 pm: | |
or the part about consolidating 18 state departments into 8. |
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1705 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:25 pm: | |
Re: cutting out fat in state government... There was also her proposal to reduce state departments from 18 to 8. |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 907 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:50 pm: | |
Alan55, the comparison was between movie industry and non-movie industries, not between two movie companies. And I will gladly "bitch" about all the other discounts you mentioned, but I think Ongowwah would appreciate it if we stayed on the thread topic. Lastly, I think that the very foundation of a free market democracy is Fairness. How that associates with Fidel, I haven't a clue. |
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1709 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:55 pm: | |
quote: I haven't a clue I think that is becoming more apparent with every post you make. |
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 151 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 5:06 pm: | |
quote:If alternative energy can't be made to work, we are eventually doomed, since oil is a finite resource in the sense that we use it up much faster than it can be produced. If only there were a way to harness the tremendous energy used to bind atomic nuclei together, and use that energy toward productive ends...
quote:Targeting industries with tax advantages is just about the only weapon states have anymore with which to fight. False. You can improve education, improve health care, improve infrastructure, and improve government services. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 249 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 10:11 am: | |
So after laid some of Cad engineers are hired by the movie industry and people realize energy will cost more because running two systems is more expensive than one and the traditional is necessary because the alternative is fluctuative at best What then Jenny? Oh, we'll be rich from the solar cones on our roof gathering power to sell back to the greedy power plants. Are we "blown away" yet?! Is she on crack or what? She's woozy from the fumes inhaled due to constantly brown nosing Obama. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 1086 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 1:54 pm: | |
"people realize energy will cost more because running two systems is more expensive than one and the traditional is necessary because the alternative is fluctuative at best" Strawman and misinformed commentary. There's one power grid, not one for each source of energy. Her proposal isn't to dismantle existing power sources. It's to force the power companies to justify why alternative can't be added to the mix versus using a power supply that's dirty (there's no such thing as clean coal) and isn't based in our state. |
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 494 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 2:25 pm: | |
The problem I have with the Govenor's plans is that by giving tax breaks to a select few to bring work here, you slight those who have been here struggling all along. (I am guardedly optimistic concerning the movie industry here, I hope it pays for itself in added revenue to the state.) One of the few areas I can agree needs tax breaks is to entice investment in areas most likely to produce added outside investment and jobs. Examples such as LRT, Brownfield tax credits, and tax credits for startup companies. Jenny got her nickname from the,"Two-Penny-Jenny", service tax fiasco. ALL the job loss during her watch are NOT on her. She did not maintain a policy that is flexible to the economy's tide; to cut temporary services when times are bad. Being inflexible in hard times puts finances in a ditch fast. You and I cut back our discretionary spending when times are tough. Why wouldn't it be any different for a state,(or city). I am absolutely for helping the needy at all times, but government cannot help if it puts us into insolvency as a state,(or city). Those of us in the community need to step up and support the churches and charities; to fill the gap government cannot. |
Wally Member Username: Wally
Post Number: 558 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 3:03 pm: | |
quote:Wally, if you're paying your landlord $1000 in rent and a person moving in next door to you pays $700 in rent, then you are paying proportionately more for rent. Retroit, to use your example, my point was, you were paying $1000 rent all along. Now someone next door moves in and starts paying $700 rent. Your rent did not go up. No additional burden has been placed on you, or other existing renters (businesses), and the landlord (state) is getting revenue that it was not getting before. (Message edited by wally on February 05, 2009) |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 932 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 3:28 pm: | |
^ But wouldn't it be better to lower your rent to $850 and charge the new tenant $850? |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 1088 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 4:50 pm: | |
The problem with this whole debate is that Bishop and Co. refuse to specify how they are going to offset the tax cuts they propose or propose phony solutions like "end waste, fraud and abuse" or proposals that few, if any, of their elected officials would ever vote to implement like "reduce Merit Award scholarships". It's like having a debate with Retroit. When the other guy is throwing out stuff that has no relation to reality, you eventually figure out that it's a waste of time to even pretend that they are serious. |
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55
Post Number: 2569 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 5:18 pm: | |
Retroit: "Lastly, I think that the very foundation of a free market democracy is Fairness." What? Fairness? Just crawled out of the pumpkin patch, did you? The foundation of the free market system is to get as much as you can, and tough shit on your competitor. If you haven't figured that out, you need to do some brush up on the "free market" system. As far as "staying on topic, first, Ongowwah's pissy little insult-fest of the Governor isn't worth staying on. Secondly, you are forgetting your own comparison, where you were complaining about the hypothetical renter next door, paying less than you were. So in your subsequent post, you were saying that the two rental spaces are not equivalent, but totally different? Then why are you bitching about these hypothetically unfair rental rates? You are like the guy who owns a 5,000 square-foot house bitching that he paying a higher mortgage than the guy with a 2,000 square-foot house. You really need to think about your posts before you post them. |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 937 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 5:59 pm: | |
Alan55, the comparison was between [a 5,000 square-foot] movie [company] and [a 5,000 square-foot] non-movie [company], not between two [5,000 square-foot] movie companies. Does that help? |