  Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2180 Registered: 03-2008 |
It leaked early. Link: http://michiganmessenger.com/1 2747/granholms-state-of-the-st ate-address-underway | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 668 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks, Sean. I had no desire to listen to it! | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2181 Registered: 03-2008 |
Well, what is interesting about the PDF is that she left a few things out; as mentioned on that site. | ||
Alsodave Member Username: Alsodave Post Number: 669 Registered: 10-2003 |
Interesting. I'm sure all the pundits will pick the speech apart right after she's done. | ||
Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 299 Registered: 05-2005 |
The state of the state means nothing...the budget relase in two weeks will be the real story. Look for more cuts in education, city shared state revenue. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 879 Registered: 04-2008 |
That was an amazing speech...almost euphoric. You would never know that the state is facing the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression (or so I've been told by her fellow Democrats). She must figure that if she talks optimistically, then maybe no one will notice we have problems. | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 696 Registered: 08-2006 |
Would you prefer she talk pessimistically? | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1076 Registered: 07-2007 |
"She must figure that if she talks optimistically, then maybe no one will notice we have problems." I'll be looking for your same comments about L. Brooks Patterson since he took the same approach in his speech last night. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 884 Registered: 04-2008 |
All governments should be cutting back their wasteful bureaucracies. The State of the Union/State/City/County should be a realistic assessment of the financial condition and the serious measures that must be taken to ensure survival, not some feel-good touchy-feely love fest. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 761 Registered: 10-2007 |
I'm interested in how the Governor will get cities to allow the small turbines she mentioned in their communities. Codes currently prohibit these without a larger parcel of land. Good luck getting an OK on a 40 foot lot. Or maybe it's just solar allowed in the cities? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1758 Registered: 12-2006 |
Town, the state can make rules that bypass local ordinances. For instance you can't zone out group homes, even though a given community might want to; you must allow for mobile home parks, even though most communities don't want them. So the state could just dictate that communities must allow turbines. Retroit, "state-of-the-x" speeches are almost always rah-rah nonsense. They are for the most part meaningless. As Wilus1mj said earlier, look to the budget for the truth. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 762 Registered: 10-2007 |
I'd like to see them allow windplants in cities, but I'm sure that cities will have some say in the matter. It's also a cash cow for the cities. Think tower inspection fees, windplant inspection fees, electrical connection and conversion inspections, permits, site plans, etc. Then there's always the neighbors. Noise and fears of the tower hitting their house. One has to have a tower that is above the treeline for effective power. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 894 Registered: 04-2008 |
No matter how many wind turbines and solar panels we build, we will still need to build more coal/nuclear power plants. Something needs to provide power when the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shinning. Plus, Michigan is not a good source of wind or solar. These are feel-good "Look at me, I'm a cool, politically-correct, global warming maniac" ideas that will never contribute substantially to our energy needs. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 764 Registered: 10-2007 |
We already have those power plants here don't we? Why would we build more? It's just common sense that if we produce more power via solar and wind, we reduce the dependence on traditional forms of energy generation. Michigan is an excellent source of wind power, along the lake shores, and in the middle of the Great Lakes in particular. Just check any wind map. As far as inland installations, not so much. There still can be some generation though. Same with solar PV panels. even if the day is cloudy, you still can get power from the panel, it's just reduced. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1081 Registered: 07-2007 |
"I'm interested in how the Governor will get cities to allow the small turbines she mentioned in their communities. Codes currently prohibit these without a larger parcel of land." On what are you basing these claims? I haven't seen any laws that prohibit wind towers. Plus, for home use, you don't need 300 foot towers. There's plenty of small scale wind turbines on the market or coming to market geared toward the individual homeowner. They won't get you off the grid but they can offset your existing electrical demand. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1898 Registered: 11-2003 |
When I talk with people across Michigan they often ask, “What can I do to help?” Here’s my simple answer: Whenever you can, buy products made or grown in Michigan. There’s no reason we can’t all root for the home team. Support Michigan. Select Michigan. Buy Michigan. Everything from Ford to Faygo. From Bell’s Beer to Blueberries. While we may court new investment from outside our state, our first love is the businesses that have long called Michigan home. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 768 Registered: 10-2007 |
Novine, I'd suggest that you read the following PDF. There are setbacks and noise considerations. For instance, in most townships currently with guidelines, their setbacks vary from 1 times the height of the tower to the lot line to over 500 feet. http://www.emdc.msue.msu.edu/B ulletin/PDF/WO1053.pdf | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1082 Registered: 07-2007 |
"Novine, I'd suggest that you read the following PDF." OK, I read it. I'm not sure how that is contrary to what I said. First, most of the zoning regulation is of large scale wind turbines. Second, there's far more communities in Michigan that permit the large scale wind turbines than limit them. Third, setback and noise limitations are legitimate concerns that any use of a property should address. Calling the use "green" doesn't negate the impacts. The small-scale residential wind turbine units aren't going to encounter problems with setback and noise because they are designed to be used in a residential setting. If you're not familiar with examples of those, I can share some. On the other hand, if you think some guy in a subdivision should be able to put up a 300 foot tower wind turbine, I think very few people would agree that's a good idea. (Message edited by Novine on February 05, 2009) | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 769 Registered: 10-2007 |
Listed under the section Small Systems are these two paragraphs: quote: Definition of small systems is personal, consumer driven systems. That includes all wind turbines. I'm not trying to be contrary, it's just the way things are. even a 20 foot tower would still have to fly under the guidelines. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1084 Registered: 07-2007 |
Those are guidelines, not rules. You would have to look at each communities ordinances to know whether they would apply to small-scale systems or not. I doubt many communities regulate them at all or very strictly. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 770 Registered: 10-2007 |
And what do you think these ordinances are based on? Did you read the ordinances currently in place in Michigan at the back of the PDF? | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 771 Registered: 10-2007 |
OK here's the model ordinance proposed by the State for local governments to use in determining placements of wind power plants. These are not to be used for determining siting for Urban areas. Just by implication, I'd think that the requirements for urban areas would be even more striot. http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/dleg/WindEnergySampleZonin g_236105_7.pdf (Message edited by townonenorth on February 05, 2009) | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 1087 Registered: 07-2007 |
"Did you read the ordinances currently in place in Michigan at the back of the PDF?" Those aren't the ordinances, those are summaries. Until you read the language of the actual ordinance, it's speculation to assume it applies one way or another. The guidelines look reasonable for an on-site residential use. Requiring a setback equal to the height of the tower ensures that if the tower fails, it's less likely to fall over onto someone else's property. This all depends on your local development. It probably would be too restrictive in an area where development has no setback (downtowns). In those locations, the local government can modify the guidelines to accommodate the use. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 774 Registered: 10-2007 |
Novine, I'm assuming that by your comments you probably have a lot larger than 40 feet across. Many people don't, especially in the denser neighborhoods of Detroit and older suburbs. That's the point I was trying to make, that in order to make a windplant viable, and cost-efficient, you need the height to overcome the surounding homes and trees. Otherwise, you are just putting it up for show. Remarkably, downtowns would be the best sites available for that application, on skyscrapers. Wind speeds up there would be great. The replacement for the WTC in NY was proposed to have wind power built in, or maybe some other one. Local governments will adhere to guidelines suggested because, as you stated, it's for safety purposes. They won't lessen the setbacks. The setbacks are what kills any urban use of wind power. I think that instead of individual power plants, that people should be able to pool their resources into a far larger one elsewhere, and use the income for reducing their electric bills. |
