  Scooter2k7 Member Username: Scooter2k7 Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2007 |
This is to all the eastside residents who travel through Macomb Township. On the north side of Hall Road (the Macomb Township side) sits a stone shack with trees and brush growing around it. It is fallen apart. It is right across from Center Campus between Garfield and Hayes. More closer to Tilch Rd and the new Beaumont building. Does anyone know what this is? What it was used for? When it was built? | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 651 Registered: 06-2007 |
There used to be quite a few houses on that stretch of road until a widening project. They expanded the width of the road and gobbled up all property. As little kids, we would go to CJ Barrymores and I remember being fascinated by all the crumbling barns and outbuildings at the remaining farms for some reason. There are still a few vacant areas on the north side of Hall where you can tell buildings/houses used to be.I think the land was purchased by the county prior to the project, but I cannot understand why, after all these years, the remnants of one building would still be standing. There also used to be a large farmhouse at the garden/floral shop on the south side thats now gone.Just barns remain. See if you can find old aerial views of the area (someone posted a thread about being able to do so). I'm guessing it was an outbuilding, like a garage or storage building, and the main house or building was much farther up, closer to the road. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 1114 Registered: 11-2006 |
Up until the early nineties there was a farm on the corner of Hall Rd. and Vandyke where all the development sits. I remember when 23 mile road east of M-53 was still very rural. Sad to see all that development swallow the country. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 2089 Registered: 03-2006 |
i remember when that shack went up in flames | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 286 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sad is relative Terryh. As a resident of that area now, I view development as a positive. A corn/soy/beet field does not do to much for me if it's south of where I live (25 Mile). | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3428 Registered: 07-2004 |
This could be metro Detroit's epitaph: Sad is relative Terryh. As a resident of that area now, I view development as a positive. A corn/soy/beet field does not do to much for me if it's south of where I live (25 Mile). | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 287 Registered: 12-2003 |
Not sure why other the usual jargon on here of "suburb=bad, Detroit=good" you would feel that way and the topic has been beaten to death so I will leave it at that. The fact that an epitaph may be required soon has nothing to do with the fact that I live where I live and everything to do with the reasons people choose to not live in the city. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6487 Registered: 12-2005 |
Scooter2k7, I've seen that same shack from the road. It's very near Hall Rd but because of the trees it's still hard to see unless you know where to look. It's so small it's hard to believe it was a house. I'd like to explore it when the weather warms up. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6488 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote:On that corner?! Maybe in the 1890s. Or maybe you're referring to M-53, a mile west of Van Dyke? | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 288 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jimaz, I think you mean a mile EAST of Van Dyke on M-53. I also remember that area being barren in the early 90's until Dave and Buster's was built. Recently, my wife and I investigated the major east-west thoroughfare routes for central-northern Macomb county when we relocated here. Amongst the items that we were interested in, we noticed that M-59 is slated to be converted to expressway all the way across to I-94 by the year 2030. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3858 Registered: 01-2005 |
I thought the soy bean fields were now south of Eight Mile. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3429 Registered: 07-2004 |
I like some suburbs, but not enough to live there. Honestly, trying to restate my argument and reducing it to some sort of tautology is not only bad debating, it's silly. The point is that 5,800 square miles of a patchwork of urbanoid generica is not sustainable. A few million people, all moving around from place to place every 10 or 20 years to get away from urban ills, just seems to create a new slum belt every generation. In the short term, yeah, it's a workable solution, but it's a long-term disaster. And that's why I say it could serve as an epitaph. Heck, in the next 100 years, we probably *will* be growing beets again in Troy. I haven't had my crystal ball checked by the dealer lately, but it tells me that some suburbs, the ones rooted in a historical sense of place (Birmingham, Mt. Clemens, Dearborn) will do better than others, which relied on the trends of the 20th century to get built up (Troy, Southfield, etc.). | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 500 Registered: 11-2005 |
I remember when some kids set that shack to flames. I was very young, but living only a mile an a half almost directly north, I remember my parents talking. I am suprised it is still there even after Beaumont moved in to the corner or Hall and Tilch. Chitacku, GO FORD! BOOO Dakota! | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1755 Registered: 12-2006 |
'Nerd, I agree with your thesis, but not each example. Troy in particular is trying to become less (for want of a better word) Troyish. They have a plan to redevelop the Big Beaver corridor to a more urban scale, link it with transit to the new transit center, and so on. The residential parts of Troy will still look bedroom suburb, but if you think about it, in the 1940s most of the residential parts of Detroit looked bedroom suburb. We are where we are because of public policy in our region, nothing more and nothing less. We make it easy to keep moving six miles further north or west every five or ten years, and give people no incentive not to, so most people do. SEMCOG's maps over the years of population gain and loss paint the ugly picture very nicely. We can change public policy, but we have to want to change it. But in Oakland County, in particular, you have L. Brooks Gekko saying "Sprawl is good. Sprawl works." And he keeps getting reelected by large margins, so that song is playing well in his 'hood. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3432 Registered: 07-2004 |
Well, maybe I'll take my crystal ball in for maintenance after all.  | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9312 Registered: 10-2003 |
Eventually, necessity will lead to what you want, DN. Trying to dictate how people live through government policy has never worked real well. People complained and complained about SUV's, but they kept selling. Then gas hit $4 a gallon, and everyone wanted a small car. Then gas when back down, and big vehicles started selling again (but the government says we aren't allowed to make them, cuz they know how to run car companies better.) Some things you just have to wait out. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3433 Registered: 07-2004 |
Oh, yeah, I know. The thing that bugs me, when you get right down to it, is that we HAVE had a government policy on how people should live. Since 1945, the answer has been that cities are unlivable; we will help everybody leave them. The government put in the freeways, put in the broad-brush zoning, worked with industry to have it move out of the city, made annexation more difficult, changed to law to fund demolition over rehab, and often, through tax shenanigans, had city residents subsidize this process. Now that the government is broke, there's no way to preserve all this. And so, over time, it's a natural process for city centers to expect moderate growth while some of the most ecstatic suburban visions return to, well, the cornfields that they were. | ||
Terryh Member Username: Terryh Post Number: 1115 Registered: 11-2006 |
I meant to write Hall Rd. and M-53. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9313 Registered: 10-2003 |
That's true.. But those expressways were the dream of the future! Magically suspended roads, with little pods jetting people off to their beautiful homes where they actually owned a sizeable piece of the earth! That's what the people wanted, and it was feasible to obtain. But things WILL change. I bet it isn't too long before 3 generations in a house is common again. Here's some American hilarity at its best: Mom and Dad can't figure out what to do with grandma, should they put her in a home? It's so expensive! They also can't figure out what to do with the children since they both work, do they spend the money on daycare? There's a solution there somewhere, but they can't see it yet. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3436 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yes, JL, it's a cumulative process, and there's going to be a lot of pain before we figure out workable new ways to organize our lives. Yeah, that generation did really believe in that sort of Futurama vision of a fully suburban nation. Must have been quite amazing to grow up around horses and flivvers and then see all that sparkling new concrete. But the wow-factor of new technologies lasts only briefly -- perhaps a generation. Like, when was the last time we drove out to look at jets take off from the airport? But I have Super 8 films my mom shot of JETS TAKING OFF FROM METRO -- like it was so amazing they had to go watch it, and FILM it! After the wow erodes, you're left with two possibilities: A soaring sense of entitlement ("We need our SUVs because our winters are harsh!) or disillusionment ("Boy, I'd really like to be free to leave my car at home!"). I'd choose the latter, of course. ;) | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1174 Registered: 04-2006 |
See, this is why I don't get it when people bitch about threadjacking. Having said everything there was to say about the shack on Hall Road, we've now moved on to a much more interesting discussion. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6490 Registered: 12-2005 |
Drankin21 caught me. I did mean east. I had a brain Homerrhage.  Can someone tell me what was on the northeast corner of Hall & Van Dyke in the late 1960s? Wasn't there some business right there on the corner in addition to the big church? | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6491 Registered: 12-2005 |
Hall & Van Dyke in 1967 from Culma:  I think it was an auto dealer or mechanic. I remember large garage doors on Van Dyke. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 652 Registered: 06-2007 |
"See, this is why I don't get it when people bitch about threadjacking. Having said everything there was to say about the shack on Hall Road, we've now moved on to a much more interesting discussion." Your more than entitled to your opinion, but questions like this and finding out about what used to be at a location are why I initially signed up to the site.Sometimes other comments get me fired up and I'll end up getting into something I should have left alone, but its questions about buildings and history that Im particularly interested in. Keep them coming. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2164 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: I believe that the last tenant in that building was a transmission repair shop. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2165 Registered: 12-2005 |
Here is a 1952 DTE/CULMA aerial photo of the north side of Hall Road between Tilch and Garfield Roads. Tilch is along the far left edge and Garfield is two-thirds of the way to the right. The wooded area in the middle of the image surrounds some old salt springs which were to be in the center of a proposed village called Frankfort which was platted in 1837, but never built. Read more about Frankfort on this archived thread.  (Message edited by Mikeg on February 04, 2009) | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2166 Registered: 12-2005 |
Below is a resized image of the plat map for the community of Frankfort (the original can be found here). The map has no scale but it does note that the southerly boundary is formed by the "section road from Mt Clemens to Utica", which is today known as Hall Road. Therefore, the "crumbled shack" looks to be located on what would have been the southwest corner of this proposed settlement.  | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 290 Registered: 12-2003 |
Mike, thanks for the images and data. There is a sizable German immigrant community in the area so it doesn't surprise me they would use an Anglicized version of the name of a major German city in the planning for the area. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2170 Registered: 12-2005 |
Actually, the earliest settlers to this area of Macomb County came from New England and Canada. Most were of English and Scotch-Irish descent. The first wave of German immigrants were just arriving in Detroit around this time (1837) and they began purchasing land in Macomb county during the 1840s. The second wave of German immigrants was by far the largest and longest, but they didn't begin arriving until around 1848. Perhaps the developer of the ill-fated Frankfort was trying to make this place sound attractive to the first wave of German immigrants and quickly learned that those who were looking to buy land wanted a farm, not a lot in a brand-new town with a briny water supply. | ||
Drankin21 Member Username: Drankin21 Post Number: 291 Registered: 12-2003 |
Mike, thanks again for the info. Can I ask where you got your information for the original settlers of Macomb County? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3439 Registered: 07-2004 |
I did a bit of research a while ago at the Burton Collection. They had a couple of good Macomb County histories that had the lives of early settlers. Try "History of Macomb County, Michigan," published in 1882 by M.A. Leeson & Co., containing "an account of its settlement, growth, development, and resources; and extensive and minute sketch of its cities, towns and villages -- their improvements, industries, manufactories, churches, schools and societies; its war record, biographical sketches, portraits of prominent men and early settlers; the whole preceded by a history of Michigan, statistics of the state, and an abstract of its laws and constitution ..." | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2003 |
Birmingham, Mt. Clemens, and Dearborn are suburbs? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1176 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:What do you think they are? They aren't Detroit neighborhoods, they aren't small towns in the middle of nowhere, and they aren't the center of metropolises of their own. I don't know what else you would call them. | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 195 Registered: 11-2003 |
um, cities? | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1177 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:They're legally cities, but so is Sterling Heights. What do you think would be in those places if Detroit didn't exist--cornfields, or apple orchards? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3441 Registered: 07-2004 |
What suburb isn't a city? | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 196 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bearinabox, Those were cities standing on there own long before the sprawl reached up to them. When was Sterling Heights incorporated? How about those cities? Detroitnerd, Plenty of suburbs don't have an actual downtown and their own distinct history, as those cities do. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 2171 Registered: 12-2005 |
Detroitnerd identifies one of my sources; I've also used copies of the 1859 Macomb County Wall Map and the 1875 and 1895 Macomb County Atlases to identify where/when particular families owned land. For example, here is a listing of farmers and businesses in Macomb County that was included on the 1859 Wall Map. Notice that the only German surnames are located in the southern part of the county. The 1875 and 1895 Atlases also contain a "Reference Directory" that gives the name, occupation, township and section of their residence/business, nativity (1875 only) and length of time residing in the county. The 1875 Atlas contains a written history of the county along with a separate section that provides a short history of each township, village and city in the county. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3442 Registered: 07-2004 |
Solar: That was kind of my point, that the cities best poised to survive suburban decay are the ones with their own sense of place and history. But to argue that Dearborn, Birmingham and Mount Clemens aren't suburbs is beyond the pale. Birmingham was clearly a commuter suburb by the mid-1920s, and Dearborn, though in some ways a self-contained city, has always been considered a suburb of Detroit. Same with Mount Clemens: It had a big industry (the bath business) and its own story, but that was a long time ago. Now it's part of metro Detroit. And, since any part of metro Detroit that's NOT Detroit is therefore a suburb of Detroit, they fall under that classification. The only debate I've heard like this before concerns whether Ann Arbor is a suburb of Detroit. Please, let's not get into that; the topic has already spawned too many overlong threads. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 1178 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:Some Detroit neighborhoods were once "standing on their own long before the sprawl reached up to them" and "have their own downtown and distinct history." One that's been discussed on here a few times is at Mt. Elliott and Nevada. Another is Old Redford. Another is Delray. Do you consider those independent cities, analogous to Detroit or Chicago or New York, because they have downtowns and history and were established communities prior to being annexed into Detroit? |
