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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 592
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think many people on this thread are speaking the truth about our region. For so long the suburbs have launched an assault on Detroit not realizing they have the same problems. The development has eluded Detroit not out of State but out to these suburbs creating a false sense of competition between the suburbs and city itself, all the while the world was passing us both by. Many won't admit how that has continued to destroyed Detroit and Michigans image.

When they started building in Detroit proper attitudes about our central city started to change, to the point they touted the Super Bowl a success in 06', not for the actual game but for the change in the city itself. It was the main topic, but now that development has slowed out of nowhere the nay sayers are reigning free again. I will support Detroit. The only reason New York and Chicago rebounded was because of their constant investing and development in their Central city, not in their suburbs. Detroit needs that investment for Michigan to survive.

Wake up Michigan! The suburbs are dying too, and if you don't see it just go to the unemployment lines in any of our metro areas. I'm not living in a prison, I'm living in a place where my suburban neighbors in positions of power to make change are selling a false image to the World for their own gain at the detriment of its central city.
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Retroit
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Post Number: 882
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sumas, you raise an excellent point about the housing stock. Unfortunately, you will not find many supporters around here, where everyone seems to think that all houses in Detroit are like those in Boston-Edison, Indian Village, or Palmer Woods. And heaven forbid you suggest that new homes be built in the city. Apparently that will only be allowed after the subways are built.
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Goat
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Post Number: 2777
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroiters may not be animals but there are some people who act like animals. Detroit as a city is closer to 3rd world status than it is to a N. American city. The stats prove it. So don't jump on people pointing out the obvious, explain what you would do to change it.
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Lilpup
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Post Number: 5207
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They are the ones presenting unconstructive criticism. They need to present some potential solutions since they think they're such astute observers and fucking geniuses. Otherwise what they say should just be ignored since they aren't pointing out anything new.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 889
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If what I am saying is not "new", then why was it met with such derision.

And, since you missed it, the solution that I presented was that the people of Detroit, themselves, need to try and be more like us "fucking" suburbanites.
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Lilpup
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

because you are being part of the problem instead of being part of any solution you claim to want
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Goat
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I understand Lilpup correctly, you have to move from the suburbs to Detroit in order to save the city? Where are the residents of Detroit in this huge problem? Why is it up to suburbanites to save the city from the very people who are destroying it?
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Middle-class Detroit, 2008. Safe, friendly, organized and caring.















The only animals we have are in the form of squirrels, rabbits, foxes, pheasants, raccoons, opossums, hummingbirds, etc.
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Eric_c
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now...if you are speaking specifically of the ghetto, then speak of it specifically.
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Lilpup
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat, you don't understand correctly.

If a suburbanite wishes to see improvement in Detroit then positive, constructive action can be taken to help. (subset #1)

If a suburbanite doesn't care about Detroit then nothing is expected of them and they don't bother to complain or criticize. (subset #2)

If a suburbanite wants to see Detroit damaged further then they can be counted on to trash talk while saying and doing nothing positive or constructive with regard to the city. (subset #3)

(Message edited by lilpup on February 04, 2009)
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 891
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric_c, yes I am speaking of the ghetto. I thought I made clear in my initial post that there are exceptions. Now, honestly, what percent of Detroit do you think is reflective of your photos and what percent would you qualify as ghetto?

Lilpup, the suburbs don't count on Detroiters to help them with "positive, constructive action", so why should Detroit depend on the suburbanites. I'm not saying that suburbanites should boycott the city, but Detroit can't expect someone who grows up in the suburbs to have any desire to live in Detroit or spend time there (other than downtown, on occasion).
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Lilpup
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never contended Detroit depends on suburbanites, nor that it has to. Most would be quite happy if suburbanites would just STFU (subset #2) instead of trash talking the city while claiming to 'care' about it (or not). (subset #3)

(Message edited by lilpup on February 04, 2009)
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Alsodave
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Username: Alsodave

Post Number: 678
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you've only been downtown (on occasion), how do you know how much of Detroit is "ghetto"? Signs point to you don't know, and are backtracking because you got called out.

There are more neighborhoods than the three you listed, but if you visited other areas of Detroit (on occasion), you would see that.

There are many charities and non-profits in the suburbs that are assisted by Detroit residents, but that goes against your generalizations, so it must not be true.

There is plenty of outreach on both sides of 8 Mile--the opportunities towards affecting positive change (regardless of scope) are out there.
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Dcmorrison12
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Post Number: 16
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Southeastern Michigan has a harsh racist reality (from whites and blacks) and it's crippled the region. Not only is it racism, but it's the powerfully incorrect misconceptions that hold the City, and the region back. We all depend on one another, we are neighbors, not enemies. Lighting your neighbor's house on fire instead of lending your hose is the philosophy Southeastern Michigan lives by. Shame on you who fuel it.
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Downtown_lady
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Username: Downtown_lady

Post Number: 553
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detroit as a city is closer to 3rd world status than it is to a N. American city. The stats prove it.



Hi Goat. For our further enlightenment, please provide those statistics and your source. I was wondering when you were going to bring your Detroit-hating energy to this thread.
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Downtown_lady
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Username: Downtown_lady

Post Number: 554
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Most would be quite happy if suburbanites would just STFU...instead of trash talking the city while claiming to 'care' about it



Right Lilpup...like if you can't help, don't hinder.
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 710
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The ghettos of Detroit are enormous, without question. According to a U of D architecture study in 2005, abject poverty reigns in at least 30% of the city's populace. 'Ghettos' make up at least 35% of the city's total land area. Of the remaining 65%, roughly 15% of the city is taken up by the CBD (river to New Center and expressway to expressway). The remaining 50% holds the lower class working poor, middle class and very small areas of upper class.

Perhaps a better discussion would be (if you care), how do we work to lift so many people out of poverty? One third of the populace does not own a car. Nearly 50% are considered "functionally illiterate" - meaning folks can read, just not at an acceptable level. What's the solution?

The problems in Detroit run deep. Not Retroit, Bill Cosby or Barak Obama, can "fix" these problems. In fact, telling most people how to live their lives and what to do is like herding cats.

Again, what's the solution? If I knew, I'd tell you. In the meantime, I choose the right neighborhood, I set an example by going to work everyday and maintaining my property. I'm courteous as well as compassionate. I don't comment on other people's lifestyles. I vote for whom I believe to be the best political candidates and I enjoy the city for what it can offer.

If I had to leave the City of Detroit, I'd be in Boston or Philly in a heartbeat, but nobody's forcing me out. For me, the positives outweigh the negatives and I've found a home and community where I'm content.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 896
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup, the first step to recovery is getting the problem out in the open, stop denying it so you can deal with it.

Alsodave, this may come as a shock to you, but it doesn't take a lifetime to living in Detroit to comprehend how bad the city is. A one hour drive is adequate.

Dcmorrison12, you are quite right, the racism in the city is really holding it back. However, I think the younger generations of blacks have realized that this is not 1709 and they can no longer use the lame excuses of the past to limit their potential.
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Alsodave
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Post Number: 680
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A one hour drive is adequate to show the problems, but not long enough to show existing and upcoming bright spots.

Racism in the area is a two way street. People of various ethnicities and residencies are doing what they can to make a difference, though. Still a long way to go, but there *are* people working together to move the region forward.

quote:

However, I think the younger generations of blacks...



You crack me up. I'll stop "arguing" with you now.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 2311
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those who just tuned in... Here's a recap:

"Detroit sucks"
"Your a Racist"
"No I'm not, you are"
"The suburbs are trying to kill us"
"Whitey ran away"
"Blackie won't let us come back"
"You suck"
"You suck worser"

Continue ...
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 897
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Eric_c, for bringing civility to the discussion!

I think the 35% ghetto figure is a bit generous. I guess it depends on what the definition is and what one is used to. I'd put the figures (based on my own, apparently ignorant judgement) at:
55% ghetto
15% almost ghetto
10% livable
5% very nice
(15% CBD, your figure)

Now for solutions. I don't believe people need to be lifted out of poverty. I believe that people lift themselves out of it. If they live like you do (i.e. work hard), it is possible. And it is not true that poverty alone makes a bad neighborhood. I have felt safer in 3rd world countries with greater poverty than Detroit. Rather, it is the lifestyle of the people. The choices they make. Their respect for one another. How they take care of what they do have. Their family situation. Etc.

These things can not be given to people, or lifted out of them. It is up to people to say "Gee, why do the suburbs look so nice and my neighborhood looks like shit? What can I change about me? What can we do to change us? How can I have a better family? How can I make sure my children are learning? Etc."
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Pam
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Driving Detroit map- a survey of neighborhoods by the Free Press.

http://media.freep.com/driving detroit/mcgrawsmap.html
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Alsodave
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Username: Alsodave

Post Number: 681
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gnome, I think you forgot:

"Nyahh,nyahh"

and

"I know you are, but what am I?"

I know I did! lol
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2183
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can't chose your family though. If *you're born to children in a community that doesn't care, how are you supposed to learn how to swim?

As to lifestyle, there was a news story on CNN once that mentioned how people who have a lot of overweight friends are more likely to be overweight. Go figure. Environment affects people. It doesn't define us, but it does affect us.

Anyway, that post was actually posted last week...

*Edit: Grammar

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on February 04, 2009)
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2184
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's Crisis of Confidence; Part II

Link: http://dayinthed.blogspot.com

Article:

'Little by little we can and we must rebuild our confidence. We can spend until we empty our treasuries, and we may summon all the wonders of science. But we can succeed only if we tap our greatest resources -- (Our) people, (our) values, and (our) confidence.'
-From Jimmy Carter's Crisis of Confidence Speech.


Continuing on from last week's post: "Detroit's Crisis of Confidence"; It's true that there are many problems in Detroit. In the past year, Detroit has had an increase in abandoned buildings, closed businesses, foreclosed homes, and in some areas, poor leadership, crime, job losses, high taxes, racism, and under achieving schools. It is popular to complain about the services in Detroit right now. Some say they downright stink for what we pay for, like it's some large bureaucratic system's responsibility to take care of us. The government exists in a democracy as a system and tool for the people. It's not about what our city can do for us, it's what we can do for our city.

Since a city is it's people; "It's not about what your fellow residents do for you, it's all in what you can do for them". The nature of this tool is obvious. A very good friend and associate of mine told me; "Government is there to provide services that the people cannot do, or the private sector cannot do, most effectively". It does seem to make some sense.



'First of all, we must face the truth, and then we can change our course. We simply must have faith in each other, faith in our ability to govern ourselves, and faith in the future of this nation. Restoring that faith and that confidence to America is now the most important task we face. It is a true challenge of this generation of Americans.

...“We’ve got to stop crying and start sweating, stop talking and start walking, stop cursing and start praying. The strength we need will not come from the White House, but from every house in America.”'

-From Jimmy Carter's Crisis of Confidence Speech.


Before I finish up this post, I want to add just a few open thoughts. When a problem happens in Detroit, why is it okay? Frequency of tragedies and the fact that they happen everywhere does not mean it is okay for them to continue to happen here and now, or in the future.

Likewise, why, when something happens in the suburbs, is it okay so long as it's not the one you or I live in? Do worse problems somewhere else make your problems okay? Why does it matter if your crime rate is less than Detroit?

When it comes down to it, lets face it, Detroit's throw away children are Grosse Pointe and Bloomfield Hill's throw away children. Without a good education, and resources, some are going to go to prison, and be a drain on all of us. Others will get away with crimes time and again, and be creating the problems our children have to deal with in the future.



'We are at a turning point in our history. There are two paths to choose. One is a path I’ve warned about tonight, the path that leads to fragmentation and self-interest. Down that road lies a mistaken idea of freedom, the right to grasp for ourselves some advantage over others. That path would be one of constant conflict between narrow interests ending in chaos and immobility. It is a certain route to failure.'
-From Jimmy Carter's Crisis of Confidence Speech.


(Part 3 coming next week)
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2185
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Note on Part 3; I will be posting it here before it's on my blog, probably over the weekend. All three were typed out at the same time, and I realized it was way to long. So I split them up and edited and posted the first one. Three just has to be edited. The idea really isn't to drive traffic over there, but rather to contribute something more; no matter how insignificant.

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on February 04, 2009)
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 901
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like Part 2, but Jimmy Carter was an animal. :-)
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit, so you're saying nothing outside the CBD is livable? I don't think that's a fair or accurate assessment. Maybe I misinterpreted that post.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 903
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

55% ghetto
+15% almost ghetto
+10% livable
+5% very nice
+15% CBD (your figure)
----------------------
=100%

I would say that, for my standards, only about 15% of the city, not including the CBD, would be desirable for me.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 3048
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this thread is terrific. It's not terrific because of Sean, but he did start it up, so I think we should give him a pat on the back-- being careful to not give in to any impulse to resoundingly whack him about the head, neck, and shoulders-- for being the initiator of a thread which has yielded a rather illuminating discussion of the topic he introduced.
I think it is important to hear from all sides (and corners) of this topic. Politeness has its place, but dancing around the bitter nature of some of Detroit's problems will not help. Just as I do not endorse the use of rose-colored glasses, I also do not endorse hatred or race-baiting. However, I think that, in the case of a thread like this one, we might do well to suspend our normally somewhat selectively stringent policies regarding free expression. In other words, I say it would be constructive to just allow everyone to Let Fly with whatever they sincerely feel needs to be said, and if the commentary comes across as being hideously negative or even overtly racist, well, there is a gain to be had in knowing What They Are Thinking. (As Don Vito Corleone told Michael, "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.")
And, let's not be too quick to affix the Racist label. Sometimes, just as a truth-bearing statement can be Racist because of the nature of the speaker's lips, a truth-bearing statement can be Racist because of the nature of the listener's ears.
This session will not be constructive, or therapeutic, if everybody feels all constricted and repressed by the Scourge Of Honesty currently known by the term "Political Correctness."
O.K., that's it; just another droning, interruptive "solid block of text" from Ravine.
Carry on, me hearties, and stop not 'til ye see land.
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Ravine
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Post Number: 3049
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aarrrhh, Cheddar, that expression may be a little freer than is permissable! I like having you around this forum (even the "extra-sharp" Cheddar.) I would hate to see you beheaded by your own hand...
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Cheddar_bob
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Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 1710
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Meh, it's not an insult.
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 1185
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I like having you around this forum (even the "extra-sharp" Cheddar.)

Glad I'm not the only one. It seems like everyone is always complaining about him.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 3050
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe not if it is one of we two saying it to the other, but in this case, I dunno...
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 909
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great idea, Ravine! And great post!
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Goat
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Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Downtown_lady, you are correct. I hate Detroit.
Yet you cheerleaders are just to blame. By putting on rose coloured glasses you pretend everything is great when it is not. You gloss over or make excuses for the turds that have driven Detroit into the ground.
You forgive your apathetic police force, your criminal politicians, your snake oil salesmen and cling to anyone or thing that gives you a small glimmer of hope without giving due process to checking out what that hope may entail.

quote:

Crime Rates in Mexico per 100,000 inhabitants
2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 USA in 2004
Total Crimes 1433.81 1439.41 1391.54 1521.93 1503.71 4118.76
Murder 14.93 15.13 14.11 13.94 13.04 5.62
Murder with firearm 3.45 4.54 3.66 3.53 2.58 3.25
Assault 254.35 257.39 260.39 260.41 251.91 NA
Aggravated assault 171.06 172.02 185.01 187.33 186.68 310.14
Rape 11.89 11.9 13.33 13.05 14.26 32.99
Theft 148.27 108.11 100.22 116.74 112.47 2445.80
Automobile theft 161.15 161.52 162.10 150.66 139.86 432.12
Robbery 316.54 274.63 219.59 158.16 146.57 145.87
Burglary 145.72 153.58 142.58 NA NA 746.22
Fraud 54.63 50.48 50.96 54.64 61.47 NA
Drug offenses 20.62 23.97 24.65 23.38 23.40 NA
Source: 7th[1] and 8th[2] Survey, United Nations




Here is a great link to show crimes. I just used themurder rate but it can be pared down for various other crimes like assault or rape. Just move the decimal point over a couple to reflect per 100,000 people assuming Detroit has a pop. 900,000 (most believe it is now under 850,000).

http://www.nationmaster.com/gr aph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murde rs-per-capita

And now Detroit.

quote:

Detroit
Crime rates (2007)
Crime type Rate*
Homicide: 45.7
Forcible rape: 39.6
Robbery: 763.6
Aggravated assault: 1,440.0
Violent crime: 2,289.0
Burglary: 2,063.6
Larceny-theft: 2,429.5
Motor vehicle theft: 2,278.4
Arson: 88.0
Property crime: 6,771.6
Notes
Number of reported crimes per 100,000 population
*Compare with other cities

Source: FBI 2007 UCR data



The numbers for Mexico City show from left to right years 2000 to 2004 the last numbers are for the USA in 2004. Regardless, Detroit beats Mexico city as does ithsow crime rates for other countries (not necessarily cities) but I think I proved my point.
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Downtown_lady
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Username: Downtown_lady

Post Number: 555
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Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I hate Detroit...By putting on rose coloured glasses you pretend everything is great when it is not. You gloss over or make excuses for the turds that have driven Detroit into the ground.



Having an optimistic outlook and hoping for better things does not equal glossing over anything and pretending everything is great; some of us are just not hateful (self-admitted) pessimists.

quote:

Detroit as a city is closer to 3rd world status than it is to a N. American city. The stats prove it.



Mexico? If you want to convince people that Detroit is comparable to a third world country, I don't think using Mexico as your example really packs the punch you think it does. Why don't you find a country that is indisputably third world (as Mexico's classification as third world is debatable) and try again. And maybe try somewhere outside of North America, since that just further confuses your argument.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

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Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mexico City is not a third world city. In terms of personal earnings, it ranks above every city in the U.S. except New York, Chicago and Los Angeles.

(Also, because you are Canadian IRC, Mexico City ranks above every city in Canada except Toronto and Montreal... And I don't think you live in either Toronto or Montreal.)

http://www.citymayors.com/econ omics/richest_cities.html
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Dcmorrison12
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Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, Goat, if you hate Detroit so much... then why come to the DetroiYES website and post your hate for the city? This is meant for positivity and creative criticism. Save your negative remarks for Freep.com
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 3058
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dcm12, maybe you believe that an environment can produce positivity and creative criticism while remaining 100% free of negative remarks, but I don't believe it.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 495
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This website is a mirror to view the best and worst of ourselves and Detroit. Of course there are bright and dismal parts. I would think our goal is to repair bridges,(relationships), and neighborhoods; improve on what works, refrain from what doesn't.

The Devil is always in the details. Detroit is unique in many ways but why not try what HAS worked in other areas and make adjustments to the plan along the way? We have been stuck within the,"two steps forward, one step back plan", for a long time.

We ARE slooowly moving forward. Look at the Book Cadillac, Fort Shelby, Washington Blvd. streetscape improvements, the progress along Woodward up to New Center, and improved transit within our grasp.
It's just going to take diligent perserverence from all of us to right this ship.

Those of you who are burned out supporters, thanks. We need to pick up where you left off.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2214
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's Crisis of Confidence

(Part 3 of 3)

In the center of Detroit's flag is the City Seal. The two Latin mottos read Speramus Meliora and Resurget Cineribus, which means "We hope for better things" and "It will rise from the ashes." The seal represents the Detroit fire of June 11, 1805 in which the entire city burned with only one building saved from the flames. The figure on the left weeps over the destruction while the figure on the right gestures to the new city that will rise in it's place.

Could you imagine your entire city burning down, facing a total rebuild? In Detroit this has happened at least twice. Once in 1805 and again in 1967. In 1805 they chose to rebuild the city, eventually leading to many of America's greatest inventions, art and music legends, large corporations, and a city of three million. In 1967, Detroiters decided not to rebuild, but instead moved, and decided the mountain before them was to great. What followed was over forty years of problems, as they tried to live among or adjacent to the city ruins. Eventually, they were forced to leave or sink, and America was stuck dragging along another weakened link in it's chain.

In hindsight, Detroit has gone through a lot, and that's because Detroit has done a lot. Detroit isn't doing as good as other cities, it's true. But, that is because Detroit had to go through a lot more than most cities.

The current situations in our city are precarious. City and suburb neighborhoods are in shambles, and portions of the current leadership still need fresh faces or systems. Our most recent glimmers of hope are facing failure if we give up, and make no mistake, tomorrow is getting much harder for all of us.

But, Detroit is a city of strength. Detroiters do not collapse and fold under the pressure. Detroiters stand strong, because Detroiters know that they learn and grow stronger from failure and adversity; like a chain being hammered through the fires of our smelting plants; like gold being purified or a chain link being strengthened.

Today, I urge you to explore what you can do for your city/metro. It doesn't matter if it's picking up pieces of trash on your block or on the walk to work and lunch Downtown, reporting a burned out streetlight, reporting crimes when they happen to you, simply mentioning something new in the city, editing a Detroit Wikipedia article, or giving money to a Detroit area non-profit institution.

Remember, everything that has happened in Detroit has happened as a result of acting on dreams, or not having the will power to see the dreams through. What happens next is up to all of us. Will our grand children look back and see us as failures, or a city that was rebuilt twice? The decision is yours.


Detroit's Crisis of Confidence Index:

-Part I
-Part II
-Part III
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Crawford
Member
Username: Crawford

Post Number: 478
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As someone who lives part-time in Mexico City (for work), I would say that yes, it's third-world, though it's on the borderline.

Yes, it has a larger economy than all but a handful of cities on earth, but it also has 25 million people, and is the second largest city on earth, after Tokyo.

Maybe 10% of the city is wealthy, about 40% are middle-class, maybe 30% are poor, and 20% are impoverished.

As for crime, Mexico City is more safe than Detroit in some respects, and less safe in other respects.

Don't trust the Mexican crime numbers. They're BS. On the other hand, I'd rather be stuck on foot in Tepito (an infamous slum) in the middle of the night than on Gratiot/Mack, but that's probably because I'm white, and would stick out more in Detroit.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3744
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The numbers come from a CIA crime report, not the Mexican government.
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English
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Username: English

Post Number: 422
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Sean for keeping this going!

IIRC, Goat didn't used to be as negative about Detroit when I first joined the forum. No idea what's changed...
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 5240
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A "We told you so" to the rest of the country:

http://freep.com/article/20090 209/COL34/90209007/Manufacturi ng+sector+critical+to+revving+ up+economy
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2218
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goat, it has been said that a positive something is better than a negative nothing. However, I obviously agree that we can't just wish our problems away, or ignore them. We must act.

Lilpup, the class issues mentioned in that article are so true. At General Motors, I've seen engineers not wanting to "deal with" the hourly plant workers in the same buildings. Of course, the rest of the community just saw them all as auto workers in the auto manufacturing sector.

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on February 09, 2009)
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Urbanfisherman
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Username: Urbanfisherman

Post Number: 80
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Which specific suburban neighborhoods are in shambles?
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Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2220
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was a reference to the housing crisis fallout, dropping population of majority of our suburbs over the recent past, poverty and crime problems in some inner ring and suburbs in the city, and the monumental job losses and mounting deficits and drops in school enrollment in the Pointes, Livonia, and various Oakland County communities.
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 946
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This thread sure fizzled out!

Sean, your suggestions for improving Detroit (picking up trash, editing Wikipedia articles, etc.) were quite tame and will prove ineffective toward the recovery of the city. Straight Talk is what Detroit needs. But who will provide it?

Your altruism is commendable, but are the people of Detroit listening?
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Eric_c
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Username: Eric_c

Post Number: 719
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Urbanfisherman
Member
Username: Urbanfisherman

Post Number: 80
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 5:28 pm:

------------------------------ ------------------------------ --------------------
Which specific suburban neighborhoods are in shambles?

------------------------------ --------------------

Inkster comes to mind...River Rouge is pretty much a mess...South Warren is a pit...
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Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 2226
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Retroit, yes, it matters!

How can we expect others to respect or have confidence in our entire region if we can't or aren't even doing the easy stuff? As to things like Wikipedia, if that sparks just one person's interest in taking up our cause, it pays for the time it took to write an article. If the writer is not in Detroit, it offers them a chance to help and learn more about our city's rich history. Hopefully they will pass that knowledge on to someone else at some point.

We are playing Chess, not Checkers. So yes, it all matters. Moving that pawn is part of a larger game.

Edit: Grammar

(Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on February 10, 2009)

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