  Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 688 Registered: 06-2005 |
Not good news. =( Hopefully it's just a short term setback until (Assuming) a loan package comes through. DETROIT – Chrysler announced Wednesday it is closing all its North American manufacturing plants for at least a month, the starkest move taken by U.S. automakers as they anxiously await word about government loans. All three companies have been taking dramatic steps as they struggle to survive the recession and U.S. sales have dipped to their slowest rate in 26 years. Chrysler and General Motors fear they might not have enough money to pay their bills in a matter of weeks. Attempting to cut costs, GM was halting construction of a plant tied to one of its most important projects, the Volt. Ford also said it will shut down 10 plants for an extra week in January because of sluggish sales. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200 81218/ap_on_bi_ge/meltdown_aut os (Message edited by Johnnny5 on December 17, 2008) | ||
Mortgageking Member Username: Mortgageking Post Number: 254 Registered: 12-2006 |
"Halting construction of a plant tied to the Volt" does not mean that they are delaying construction of the Volt. Read further down in the article: "Basel said Volt and Cruze development will continue as scheduled and the company still plans to bring them to showrooms in 2010. " | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 895 Registered: 11-2007 |
Cruze is the car that will make or break GM in the next 5 yrs. If the Cruze doesn't do huge numbers then GM won't be around to see if the Volt expense is allowed to pay dividends 7-10 yrs. down the road. Hopefully the new administration will understand what the current congress doesn't appear to. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 268 Registered: 08-2005 |
They make the 1.4L Volt-type engine in Austria as well, so don't get too excited. | ||
Be_in_va Member Username: Be_in_va Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2008 |
^you mean hopefully GM and the UAW will understand Americans no longer demand their product / pricing structure and GM and the UAW will be forced to adjust? the Obama administration cant force Americans to buy GM union made products... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5051 Registered: 06-2004 |
Stuff it - GM dominates the US market | ||
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue Post Number: 73 Registered: 09-2008 |
quote: GM has a 20% market share, and the next biggest (Toyota) has 19%. It disproves the "nobody buys GM cars" nonsense, but I wouldn't call that domination. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5052 Registered: 06-2004 |
In November it was GM 20.83% and Toyota 17.53% (and Ford 16.58%) | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 284 Registered: 07-2008 |
If we have brownouts in the summer during hot weather due to the heavy use of air conditioners, how will the grid cope with millions of plug in electric cars? The talk of hydrogen as a fuel source is diminishing. Why? | ||
Single_malt Member Username: Single_malt Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2008 |
Great question Bobl. And I haven't heard a peep about Compressed Natural Gas. Ford and GM stopped production. Honda has them dealer direct in NY and CA. You can also by a filling station for your garage. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5061 Registered: 06-2004 |
CNG will have the same supply problems oil based fuels have. The oil companies would love for CNG to catch on because they are heavily into that market, too. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 934 Registered: 07-2006 |
Flint's esteemed (ha!) mayor has suggested that the engine could also be built at the existing Flint Engine South facility, replacing an engine line they will be losing in the next couple years, although that elimination would have to be moved up for that scenario to work. And they still have plenty of time to build the plant. In any case, this won't delay the Volt, as it will be in limited production until the second generation - how many people will buy a small car for $30-40,000, particularly with gas prices so low? I imagine the plant in Austria will be able to supply the engines they need for that. however, i would be surprised if that plant could supply enough engines for the US-built Cruze on top of the European ones. The Volt is a nice symbol, but the Cruze is far more important. Bobl - most of those vehicles will be charging at night, not during peak times when we have brownouts. Nor will there be 'millions' any time soon - more likely we'll see less than 100,000 built a year for the first few years. Even if other automakers join in, it'll still be some time before they number in the 'millions'. Also, I recall hearing that GM may offer a solar charging station - probably the ideal solution, because then you aren't even plugging into the grid, and using no fossil fuels whatsoever for that first 40 miles. As for hydrogen, when GM first introduced the volt, one of the benefits of it was that it will first be introduced with a gasoline engine, but the platform can be adapted to use diesel engines or hydrogen fuel cells to produce the electricity at some point in the future. It hasn't been ignored, it's just that the gasoline version is the most viable at this time, and is what they are concentrating their efforts on perfecting - and most of that is directed at the batteries, something that is needed even for fuel cells. But the problem is that we don't have a distribution system in place for hydrogen, and it will be some time before one is in place. It has been suggested that the most efficient method is through the existing oil distribution system, since oil contains large quantities of hydrogen. It would then be broken down to hydrogen and other byproducts (where do those go?) at the place of sale. That doesn't really solve the problem, does it? Another problem is that it still requires a large amount of electricity to produce the hydrogen - it doesn't just come out of thin air. (sorry, couldn't help it.) So the problem remains, where does the electricity come from? And with most electricity being produced by fossil fuels, hydrogen becomes a double-whammy - we remove hydrogen from oil by burning coal. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2955 Registered: 07-2007 |
Compressed Natural Gas is not a good fuel choice. the 2001+ Honda hybrid get 40/50 mpg. The domestics blew it the last ten years. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9064 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hooray, another inaccurate thread title that many will believe. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 935 Registered: 07-2006 |
Yes, they blew it. Because they didn't make a limited-production hybrid that they didn't make a cent in, unless you can use PR to pay out dividends to your shareholders. Instead, they chose to make the top-selling vehicles in the US, which happened to be trucks with high profit margins. Toyota and Honda are faring poorly as well in the current economic climate (Toyota is delaying the opening of their new Mississippi plant, which will build the Prius), showing that it has nothing to do with hybrids, and everything to do with the credit market (which affects all of them) and the cost structure the companies have (which is affecting the Big 3). | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 936 Registered: 07-2006 |
also, lefty, the 2001 Honda Civic hybrid did NOT make 40/50 mpg. it made exactly 0 mpg. Which just happens to match the number of Honda Civic hybrids built in both the 2001 AND 2002 model years. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2957 Registered: 07-2007 |
^really tell my brother that who drives a 01' civic hybrid in california who averages in ow mid 30's mpg. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2958 Registered: 07-2007 |
oops, my brother bought it in in 2002 in california and averages in the low mid 30's mpg. Even still, the mid 3 were looking short term, like when the sign the UAW contracts. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 288 Registered: 02-2006 |
""If we have brownouts in the summer during hot weather due to the heavy use of air conditioners, how will the grid cope with millions of plug in electric cars? The talk of hydrogen as a fuel source is diminishing. Why?"" The long term intent of a Volt style is that it will diminish brownouts. If the technology is used correctly, the battery pack in a Volt will add to the grid during peak demand. It won't be there at the start of production but the tech tricks are pretty slick. It can be programmed to "know" how far it is away from home and only charge itself via the motor assist as much as needed. It should also be able to "preheat" or "precool" itself while connected to the charge station. The real question isn't can this kind of stuff be done. It can. It's "who" do you want to do it for you. The real message of the financial issues isn't the UAW or idiots in Alabama. We all know southern republicans are morons. They just like to display their real skills. The real problems are the tax structures that the United States uses to "run" or "ruin" businesses. The other nations know we can't see past the noses on our faces when it comes to trade or taxation. So they are screwing the hell out of us and we ignore it. We "worry" about how much the UAW gets paid. Anybody that concerns themselves with cutting UAW pay ought to be thinking, why don't the transplants give Americans raises instead. Makes a whole lot more sense. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2962 Registered: 07-2007 |
maybe they can plug the cars into their houses and run electricity in the home, that would be cool. | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 292 Registered: 07-2008 |
I'm still holding out for the Jetsons scenario.... |
