  D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1641 Registered: 12-2007 |
More bad news for Detroit... http://www.politico.com/blogs/ thecrypt/ | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 854 Registered: 07-2007 |
I wouldn't place any bets on Dingell losing just yet. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1875 Registered: 11-2003 |
If he does, this hurts MI and Detroit's chances of getting more help with his clout. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2922 Registered: 07-2007 |
more blogs here https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/161483.html?1226597053 | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1896 Registered: 11-2003 |
Dingell is officially out. More MI clout gone. http://www.clickondetroit.com/ politics/18017385/detail.html? rss=det&psp=news | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5689 Registered: 06-2004 |
I just hope Obama can temper all the far left radicals. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1899 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yes, but they may be tempered if the GOP end up with Sarah Palin as their savior for 2012. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1646 Registered: 12-2007 |
Told ya so Novine... | ||
Herbpowell Member Username: Herbpowell Post Number: 25 Registered: 07-2004 |
If Harry Waxman and Nancy Pelosi are the direction of the Democratic Party you can count me out. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1900 Registered: 11-2003 |
I will take Pelosi and Waxman over Palin. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 858 Registered: 07-2007 |
Hey! It was close. Waxman benefited from his association with Pelosi. Was this vote among current members or did it include incoming Reps.? | ||
Englishkills Member Username: Englishkills Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2008 |
In the short term the ousting of Dingell will hurt Michigan. In the long term though, someone like Waxman will help bring our country and the State of Michigan, if the state is willing, into a cleaner, greener, sustainable, and more prosperous economy. If the policy of people like Waxman can help move Michigan away from it's antiquated ways of thinking and outdated business models than I say this is ultimately a good thing for everyone. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 861 Registered: 07-2007 |
"f the policy of people like Waxman can help move Michigan away from it's antiquated ways of thinking and outdated business models than I say this is ultimately a good thing for everyone." Please explain? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5693 Registered: 06-2004 |
We'll see what Waxman actually gets accomplished. Probably nothing. He's all bluster and hot air. | ||
Englishkills Member Username: Englishkills Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2008 |
Please explain? Well, one of the bigger stories in the news today, not just in Detroit, but nationally, are the current troubles of the auto industry. If you don't see how the imminent failure of the American auto companies is linked to their incompetence over the last few decades to reformulate their way of thinking and update their business model to a successful one, then I'm not sure there is much hope in my explaining any further. Anyone who didn't see what's happening now coming a long time ago needs to get out more and see how successful businesses can be created and grown. Obviously and unfortunately, the auto culture and its domination of the state for so long have been deeply ingrained into the culture in the State of Michigan. This is a huge part of the reason why the state is in such bad shape when measured by basically any indicator compared to almost any other state. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 343 Registered: 07-2005 |
If you think a left wing career politician knows better how to run the auto industry than the auto executives then I suggest you may need to get out more. By the way, I think that it is completely reprehensible that CCK refused to support Dingell. Aren't their districts next to each other? It is petty and a disservice to her constituents. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 777 Registered: 10-2005 |
It was payback Spartacus. Dingell called for 'y'alls boy' to step down. | ||
Englishkills Member Username: Englishkills Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2008 |
Spartacus said: "If you think a left wing career politician knows better how to run the auto industry than the auto executives then I suggest you may need to get out more." The position that changed hands today was Chair of the Committee on Energy and Commerce. The fact that you equate the position with "how to run the auto industry" says a lot. Do you have any idea what the committee is responsible for? Anyone other than someone who's main goal is to lobby for the automakers is a better choice in my opinion. Unbelievable... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5695 Registered: 06-2004 |
What's unbelievable is all these coastal creatures who have no clue about manufacturing coming in and telling one of the largest corporations in the world that they don't know how to run and grow a business. The only reason the automakers went to D.C. is because the credit market is closed. If Wall St. and the administration didn't have their heads up their asses, allowing the US economy to meltdown, the automakers wouldn't even be there. | ||
Spartacus Member Username: Spartacus Post Number: 344 Registered: 07-2005 |
English: What? You're the one talking about Waxman improving the business model for the Big 3. What the hell are you talking about???? You apparently think that increasing CAFE standards will help the Big 3. I suppose each state having their own standards would really be a boon to GM. I repeat, what are you talking about? How can having an advocate for the big 3 in a position as chairman of a committee that has regulatory authority over the automotive industry be worse than someone who has proven to be hostile to the automotive industry? Please enlighten us. | ||
Englishkills Member Username: Englishkills Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2008 |
Spartacus, Ultimately I'm talking about the Detroit region moving away from reliance on one industry. If the end result is a "Big 3" that sell better and fewer cars and that are also able to branch off into other industries, (profitable growing industries, imagine that!) even if they're forced to, then I am all for it. And if it forces people in the state and region to get creative and job growth starts to come from other sectors than it's even better in the long run. What you fail to understand is that Dingellberry is not an advocate of the car companies but an advocate of continuing to run them in the same obviously unsuccessful way they have been run. it's to the point where any outside guidance to the big 3 should be welcomed. Or should Detroit just continue to do the same things the same way since the region is obviously doing so well? Why do people like yourself continue to hold onto something that's basically dead, the auto industry in it's current incarnation, and refuse to join the modern world? You should also realize that people outside of Michigan do have an interest now since we're going to have to start picking up the tab for your failed state if things get as bad as some people are thinking they will in Michigan. Detroit's incompetence and business culture are now effecting the rest of the nation. And Lilpup: "coastal creatures who have no clue about manufacturing"? last time I checked Los Angeles was the largest manufacturing center in the U.S. and had been for something like 15 years running. Guess what, they're on a coast! It's time to get out of the bubble that Detroit has become and integrate yourselves with the outside world. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 862 Registered: 07-2007 |
"If you don't see how the imminent failure of the American auto companies is linked to their incompetence over the last few decades to reformulate their way of thinking and update their business model to a successful one, then I'm not sure there is much hope in my explaining any further. " What the heck does that have to do with Waxman being selected the Chair of the committee? How are the policy models proposed by Waxman in any way related to reforming the auto industry? If Waxman was a true blue liberal, he would be talking about the need to implement nationalized health care and relieve the auto industry of providing that to their workers and retirees. That would be a huge financial burden off the industry. Perhaps Waxman has made that case elsewhere. But it has nothing to do with his role as the Chair of the committee. Again, please explain. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 863 Registered: 07-2007 |
I must have posted after you did but my question still stands - what does Waxman's role as Chair have anything to do with the points that you just made? None that I can see. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 2940 Registered: 07-2007 |
You obviously don't know how bad Waxman is. He, along with the other socialists will increase gas and coal prices increase regulations across the board on companies and help to destroy the auto industry. Not that Dingbat is much better, but not a radical environmental anti business freak like pig nose. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2134 Registered: 08-2007 |
I can't help but think some of the Anti-Dingell movement has a foot in the ill-will generated by Mrs. Debbie Fisher Dingell and her role in screwing up our non-primary this year. Debbie, who sits on the GM Board of Directors, is a scion of the Fisher Body clan, was also a backer of Hillary Clinton and many feel she worked the levers behind the scenes to insure a Hillary victory. In any event Michigan did not do itself any favors by not having the primary dog-and-pony show make it's stop. We missed out on the nation learning more about the problems we are facing here. We missed out on a lot thanx to Debbie and her fellow big-wigs in the party. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5706 Registered: 06-2004 |
To the contrary, if Michigan's Dems hadn't pushed the way they did the whole campaign would have been about Iraq instead of the economy. Maybe it was time for Dingell to not be front and center. This could be an opportunity to go after Waxman and force some brute auto industry reality down his Beverly Hills throat. He's the one with a target on his back now. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2135 Registered: 08-2007 |
Hate to disagree, but I think the Wall Street meltdown had a little bit more to do with turning the election than did Michigan politicos rearranging our deck chairs. Maybe I'm still steaming over the $10 million we spent on that non-primary. --- I'm all in favor of Waxman getting a face-full of reality, but Ms. Pelosi and her band of sycophants are feeling their oats right now. Key committee chairmanship are getting lined up and we'll get a donkey screwing for sure. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 445 Registered: 11-2007 |
Waxman will be less sympathetic, but the auto industry hasn't exactly done fabulously well with Dingell in there. Really, it is like having a worse steward on the Titanic. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5486 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good move by the democrats. Dingell is a dinosaur. The way everyone is behaving towards the automakers pleas is really a referendum on his viewpoints and his ability to compel fellow democrats. People aren't on board with him. They have very little reason to be on board with him. I give the man some credit for his long service and the pursuit of certain legislation over the years, but his stance on the government's role in relationship to the automakers is out of touch. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6432 Registered: 10-2003 |
The glee and joy that a good half of the Democratic Party is getting out of kicking a man when he's down is nothing short of amazing. Whatever mistakes the Big Three and their Congressional allies have made did not deserve anywhere near the type of glib and gleeful commentary their pain is generating amongst the fauxgressives. I really hope they can salvage pleasure out of our pain, now, because we're going to take those sonofabitches with us when we go under. Somehow, a punch of paper-pushing banker boys pushing abstract investment instruments and imaginary derivatives get more respect that companies that actually make things. This silly War on Michigan speaks to where our 'friends' are. Dingell was hardly my favorite politician, but I'm tired of the these glib wannabe fauxgressives preaching. What's the difference between a so-called Progressive and a Evangelical, these days, you ask? A Prius. That's about it, because they are both self-righteous boobs. To hell with the hypocritical prigs. Really, I can't think of a regular soul here who has not had harsh words for the Big Three over the years, Democrat or Republican. Yet, we somehow get painted as part of the problem by the media. Drop dead, Detroit? They better be careful what they wish for, it just might come true... (Message edited by lmichigan on November 20, 2008) | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 711 Registered: 08-2007 |
Let the Dems piss off the Autoworkers, then they will know about biting off the hand that feeds them. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2137 Registered: 08-2007 |
Boy, sure do wish that were true Reddog, but I fear the once powerful beast which was the Union Movement is now a toothless cur. Gone is the muscular force that built things, that built pride, that built this country. The Union Movement is a flabby eunuch, grown that way by a 40-year diet of self-serving labor agreements with side orders of woe-is-me-ism. The Union Movement isn't either right now. There is no "union" amongst unions and any "movement" is that of a downward direction. Where were the unions when PATCO went out? The UAW, the AFL/CIO, the Teamsters, The Carpenters, the Musicians, the Garment Workers, the Police and Fire ... where were those Unions when PATCO went out? Looking at their shoelaces, they were. Go and find someone around then and ask them what happened. You'll get, "not my job, not my fight". Since the dawn of the Labor movement they have been in the hip pocket of the Democratic Party. Like peas and carrots, toast and jelly, Kwame and Kwistine, the Dems and the Unions have been stuck together and that stickiness hasn't helped Unions. The Dems don't have to really do anything the Unions need because they know the Rank and File will never vote Republican. The Dems can listen and play lip service to The Movement, attend the rallies and parades; but when rubber meets road where were the DEMS when NAFTA was passed? Oh, I remember, they passed it and signed it. Remember that Mr. Clinton? I do. Sorry for the morning rant, Reddog, I just wish the auto unions wouldn't have become such havens for, "not my job-ism", "I'm on break-ism", and stayed strong in a John L. Lewis, Walter Reuther, "don't mess with me or my brother" way. Edited for spelling (Message edited by gnome on November 21, 2008) | ||
Mrnittany Member Username: Mrnittany Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2007 |
Gnome's 8:29 PM Thursday post is SPOT ON. Dingell's wife was one of the chief architects (along with Michigan's incompentent governor) in trying to fix the MI Primary for Hillary. Well, way to go. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 289 Registered: 08-2006 |
A Washington insider friend of mine said that Dingell was in a wheelchair and looked absolutely frail during vote. http://www.politico.com/news/s tories/1108/15859_Page2.html As an aside, is anyone else bothered that this vote, as well as the vote for vice-Chair, was done in secret ? Members of the same Dem Caucus voting in secret ? | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 780 Registered: 10-2005 |
It's amazing that they are all about secret balloting for things like this... but for Union membership votes MUST be open. Hypocrites much? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7530 Registered: 08-2004 |
Dingell may have lost the chairmanship, but never underestimate him. Washington is littered with politicians who have. In order for Waxman to become effective, he will have to get a majority of votes of his committee, and if he's alienated enough democrats on his committee with his brash style, that will be a challenge. Remember the chairmanship vote was a vote by the entire Democratic caucus, not a vote by his fellow committee democrats. As for Waxman's Green Agenda... I wouldn't guarantee whether there'll be enough votes on his committee to get things passed. There may be enough Democrats to side with the Republicans to hold things up in committee. Also, I don't think that Dingell's loss has anything to do with Debbie Dingell and the primary. That was more of a presidential race issue, rather than anything congressional. Good post Lmichigan... P.S. In February 2009, Dingell will be the longest serving US Representative of all time. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5710 Registered: 06-2004 |
I gotta say I wonder if his age, made all the more obvious by him not being 100% right now (he just had a knee replacement), plus the vote being right after the auto CEOs were there, played into it. The overall image right at that time wasn't good. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6441 Registered: 10-2003 |
There is now a rumor going around that good ole Cheeks voted against Dingell because he called for Kwame ouster, despite him giving her money for her re-election campaign. Apparently, the Michigan congressional Dems were all going to sign off on a show of support for Dingell before the vote, but failed to do so because Cheeks was keeping mum and 'neutral' about her vote. If this turns out to be true, I hope Mary Waters kicks her stupid ass up and down the Eastside come 2010. | ||
Deteamster Member Username: Deteamster Post Number: 179 Registered: 07-2007 |
Wow, Lmichigan, amazing post. I couldn't have articulated my feelings better myself. As someone who has always voted Democrat, except against Butt-Cheeks, I'm infuriated. These patsy Prius crusaders like Waxman better be fucking careful...they didn't get elected on environmentalism and gay marriage, they got elected on the economy, and they have constituents to answer to. Bringing down the Auto Industry as the first order of business is the worst possible strategy at this point. And now how is a blue-collar Michigander supposed to vote anymore? Socialist workers party, or what?! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6444 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's looking that way, huh? I think it's more clear than ever where their priorities are, and they are not with us, that's for sure. You're right. This state elected two new Democratic congressmen and gave Barack Obama the biggest margin of victory of any Democratic president in quite a few years because of the economy, and this is how we get treated? I didn't expect them not to grill the execs like they did, and the execs earned that grilling. But what could we have possibly done to deserve the disrespect shown to the auto industry? The scorn heaped upon Dingell, the industry and state in the past few weeks in particular is the kind of scorn usually reserved for pedophiles and other assorted criminals, and this is coming from our own so-called friends. If they think that shamelessly brow-beating the American worker to score points is a winning strategy, they've got another thing coming. If they get some kind of sadistic gratification out of kicking a man, state and industry while it's down, then I want no part of them. If they are going to parrot the same talking points we usually hear from the GOP, well, then, they are no friend of ours. If this is "change", well, they can keep the change. | ||
Salvadordelmundo Member Username: Salvadordelmundo Post Number: 121 Registered: 04-2006 |
It would be foolish to expect Dingell to maintain his chairmanship at his age. Robert Byrd also stepped down from a Senate chairmanship recently for the same reason. As for the bailout, that would take Presidential support at this point. But Bush doesn't seem to be inclined at all in that direction. Anyhow, what do we expect a piddling $25 billion to do for companies facing far more than that in debts and obligations? We need bankruptcy and reorganization. No way around it at this point. Too many legacy costs. | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 950 Registered: 05-2008 |
This is from the Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20081122/P OLITICS/811220364 This should have been a public vote. The Kilpatricks are shit in my book. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1310 Registered: 11-2003 |
^ What a vindictive bitch that woman is. I'd love to say I'm shocked, but nothing that family does surprises me any more. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3642 Registered: 04-2006 |
I don't like Cheeks, but she was in a very tight spot because she in indebted to Pelosi who went to Michigan to campaign for her to keep her seat. Pelosi is a big Waxman supporter. Cheeks owes Pelosi more gratitude than anyone else at this point... | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1311 Registered: 11-2003 |
^ If that's the case I think even less of her. With all the other Kilpatrick **** that's likely to hit the fan in the future and that vote I'm guessing she figures it's one more term and done for her. (Message edited by rjk on November 22, 2008) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3644 Registered: 04-2006 |
^Probably. Mary Waters has already announced her intentions to run against her in 2010. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 869 Registered: 07-2007 |
Just keep in mind that Waxman is not Obama. Coming from Illinois, Obama has a much better sense of how much the auto industry matters in the Midwest. He knows that states like Ohio and Indiana were key to his victory. I think he'll be much more pro-auto industry. I'm sure they'll be some tough love but he's not going to let the auto industry die on his watch. "Cheeks owes Pelosi more gratitude than anyone else at this point..." Sorry but Cheeks only owes gratitude to the people she represents. Nancy Pelosi didn't vote for her and I doubt she helped Cheeks pick up any votes in her district. But this is what I expect from a Kilpatrick. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 870 Registered: 07-2007 |
Obama's radio address today: "Good morning. The news this week has only reinforced the fact that we are facing an economic crisis of historic proportions. Financial markets faced more turmoil. New home purchases in October were the lowest in half a century. 540,000 more jobless claims were filed last week, the highest in eighteen years. And we now risk falling into a deflationary spiral that could increase our massive debt even further. While I’m pleased that Congress passed a long-overdue extension of unemployment benefits this week, we must do more to put people back to work and get our economy moving again. We have now lost 1.2 million jobs this year, and if we don’t act swiftly and boldly, most experts now believe that we could lose millions of jobs next year. There are no quick or easy fixes to this crisis, which has been many years in the making, and it’s likely to get worse before it gets better. But January 20th is our chance to begin anew – with a new direction, new ideas, and new reforms that will create jobs and fuel long-term economic growth. I have already directed my economic team to come up with an Economic Recovery Plan that will mean 2.5 million more jobs by January of 2011 – a plan big enough to meet the challenges we face that I intend to sign soon after taking office. We’ll be working out the details in the weeks ahead, but it will be a two-year, nationwide effort to jumpstart job creation in America and lay the foundation for a strong and growing economy. We’ll put people back to work rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges, modernizing schools that are failing our children, and building wind farms and solar panels; fuel-efficient cars and the alternative energy technologies that can free us from our dependence on foreign oil and keep our economy competitive in the years ahead. These aren’t just steps to pull ourselves out of this immediate crisis; these are the long-term investments in our economic future that have been ignored for far too long. And they represent an early down payment on the type of reform my Administration will bring to Washington – a government that spends wisely, focuses on what works, and puts the public interest ahead of the same special interests that have come to dominate our politics. I know that passing this plan won’t be easy. I will need and seek support from Republicans and Democrats, and I’ll be welcome to ideas and suggestions from both sides of the aisle. But what is not negotiable is the need for immediate action. Right now, there are millions of mothers and fathers who are lying awake at night wondering if next week’s paycheck will cover next month’s bills. There are Americans showing up to work in the morning only to have cleared out their desks by the afternoon. Retirees are watching their life savings disappear and students are seeing their college dreams deferred. These Americans need help, and they need it now. The survival of the American Dream for over two centuries is not only a testament to its enduring power, but to the great effort, sacrifice, and courage of the American people. It has thrived because in our darkest hours, we have risen above the smallness of our divisions to forge a path towards a new and brighter day. We have acted boldly, bravely, and above all, together. That is the chance our new beginning now offers us, and that is the challenge we must rise to in the days to come. It is time to act. As the next President of the United States, I will. Thank you." | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 957 Registered: 05-2008 |
Of course this is just unkind speculation on my part, but one would think with all the investigations surrounding CCK's son, her ex-husband, and many others associated with ThugBoy, perhaps she may be indicted? I hate to be nasty (really, I do) but with the mess that family's put us all through, I wouldn't feel sorry for her. |
