Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3489 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 6:13 am: | |
I know he doesnt have a ton of friends here, but L. Brooks Pattersons recent comments on the auto industry crisis are the most direct and appropriate comments I have heard from any public official yet - calling the Feds "son of bitches" that "caused the problem to begin with" who are now given the authority to solve the problems the caused. Making the auto industry crawl begging to the Fed for support. His main point is absolutely undeniable: When it is our enemies (Communist Red China) who make all our stuff, who the fuck is going to make our tanks and weapons when they go to war with us ? It is a NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE Especially after GW Bush just got done destroying our entire military in iraq. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6420 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 6:57 am: | |
Is there a video of Patterson calling the Feds SOBs, because I'm really wanting to see it. |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3490 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 7:01 am: | |
turn on the morning news |
Ptero Member Username: Ptero
Post Number: 198 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 7:19 am: | |
The clip just aired on TV2 local news. |
Urbanfisherman Member Username: Urbanfisherman
Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 7:26 am: | |
Since when is "Communist Red China" our enemy? |
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 1471 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 7:37 am: | |
Absolutely right on Mauser! Unfortunately, its a message that very few others are bringing forward. UFish, "Communist Red China" has been our enemy since they became communist. We deal with them today because they are a huge economic power and we have to interact for our own economic good, not because we approve of their brutal regime. |
Gumby Member Username: Gumby
Post Number: 1879 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 8:07 am: | |
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/my fox/pages/Home/Detail?contentI d=7886983&version=1&locale=EN- US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1. 1 |
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 5661 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 8:07 am: | |
Communist Red China? They're the most capitalist country on earth. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 9155 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 8:40 am: | |
Communism is both an economic and political system. Having some aspects of capitalism in their economic model does not mean they aren't communist. Besides, try telling the media there they operate in a free market. |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1809 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 8:46 am: | |
Yeah it's "for our own good" to get all that pet food and chocolate with melamine, poorly-made clothing and junky electronics. I noticed that the frozen vegetables we used to buy at Costco came from China. Now I read labels, and I try to never buy anything from China. |
Dtowncitylover Member Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 395 Registered: 02-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 8:59 am: | |
Of course, there has never been a pure communist country on the face of this earth. Most of these "communist" nations" are socialist. But anyways, L Brooks is telling it like it is. I still don't like the guy. |
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal
Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:47 am: | |
Money poured into the auto companies will just be used to "cut costs," i.e. ship more jobs to Mexico, etc., and sub-contract more work and buy more parts from places like China. This is inevitable in this world of globalized capitalism (yes, that includes "communist" China) unless specific steps are taken to slow it, especially tying employment conditions to aid/bail-out packages. |
Goat Member Username: Goat
Post Number: 10521 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:14 am: | |
If anyone doesn't think China is the enemy then you are all nuts! I don't think there will ever be a conventional war between China and USA but there is already a war; An economic war. And if you don't believe that then your head has been stuck up your own arse for the better part of 2 decades. It was plain for all the world to see that you don't beat a country via armed conflict, you beat them economically (think USA vs USSR). That is exactly what China has been doing and our greedy CEO's and so called leaders have continued on that path. Cheap goods do not equate to a better econonmy. Just ask the many who don't have jobs or are underemployed. I for one am glad some politicians are not taking this shit that has been fed to us. Yes the decline has started but do we need to slide down the razorblade any quicker? This can be stopped WE just have to make it stop now! |
Noggin Member Username: Noggin
Post Number: 107 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:18 am: | |
These are the same politicians like Barny Frank who ran Freddie Mac and Sally Mae into the ground that now want to run the auto companies. I can hardly wait for this grenade to go off. |
Wally Member Username: Wally
Post Number: 730 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:50 am: | |
L. Brooks is the man. I don't agree with his views on sprawl though. |
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal
Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:13 am: | |
"If anyone doesn't think China is the enemy then you are all nuts! I don't think there will ever be a conventional war between China and USA but there is already a war; An economic war. And if you don't believe that then your head has been stuck up your own arse for the better part of 2 decades. " While I don't wholly disagree with you, you are thinking here like and old-style nationalist and not a modern-day capitalist. Most American and other Western companies don't see an economic "war" with China, instead they see a nice source of inexpensive product and cheap labor, without having to worry too much about the costs associated with unions, health care, workplace safety, environmental standards, etc. They also see a nice growing consumer class in an enormously populated country who are already buying stuff in ever-increasing amounts from the tons of new stores that have opened there in the last 2 decades. What you describe as an "economic war" looks a whole lot more like an economic opportunity to most of them in this global economy our CEOs, politicians, and economists have fostered. GM and Ford only plead economic patriotism when it suits them, but the evidence shows clearly that they are in just as much of a rush to ship their work out of the country, to sub-contract work to offshore locations, and to lower their costs, as nearly everyone else. |
Danindc Member Username: Danindc
Post Number: 5250 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:18 am: | |
So Brooks Patterson is blaming the problems of the automakers on the federal government, and for that, he "rocks"??? Hmmm. Brooks blaming others. Shocker. |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3493 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:29 am: | |
"Since when is "Communist Red China" our enemy?" Since when did they become our friend and not our enemy ? Our government seems to have glossed over that little detail. Remember the Korean War ? Viet Nam ? Guess not. How many Americans are listed on monuments to those wars ? Maybe you should go take a look at a few and think about that. |
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 1454 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:51 am: | |
This is the side Brooks I like and see more often when I work with his office on projects :-) Someone who brings that much passion into what they do you can't help but like, even if you disagree with their views on some issues. China is not our friend, they are our neighbor who says "hi" once in a while but you can overhear them bitching about your dog through the fence; although I do believe trade prevents war, we need to make it an even field. As long as we're competing against virtual slave labor, free electricity, free land, free factories, we can't compete. It already seriously worries me how much technology is in the hands of our enemies. And we're going to rely on them for the mechanization too? Gimme a break. Yes, the auto industry needs to improve and reform a bit. But I'll be damned if our freedom is going to depend on a shipment from our enemies. That's assinine. |
Urbanfisherman Member Username: Urbanfisherman
Post Number: 51 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:59 am: | |
Thanks for the entertainment Mauser765! Maybe you should go take a look at a few other monuments, think about them, and then invent some additional imaginary "enemies" for us. Who will it be next? The Confederate States of America? Mexico? The Philippines? The Cherokee Nation? The British? The French? Russians? Spain? (Message edited by urbanfisherman on November 18, 2008) |
Mrntgr Member Username: Mrntgr
Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 12:30 pm: | |
Sorry for the coarse language, but this is absolute bullshit. This is just plain stupid. I don't give a shit how passionate LBP is. It's not even worth having intelligent conversation about. |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3494 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 1:27 pm: | |
huh ? then dont. |
J_to_the_jeremy Member Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 135 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 1:52 pm: | |
It's asinine to think of China as an enemy. They're not going to try to invade us, they don't need any more power. They're already guaranteed to be the main economic factor on Earth for decades. People who still have a Cold War, USA#1 mentality need to give it a rest. There's nothing wrong with China being a world power. And with regards to their brutal regime, remember that their superpower is just developing and their human rights record will slowly get close to acceptable. It's not good, I won't lie. But every empire/world power in history has committed huge human rights violations. It comes with the territory, unfortunately. Also, glass houses people. Just remember what we've done over the past 8 years. And remember that we live in a country that exists only because of a mass genocide. And that the genocide was followed by brutal racial slavery, which lasted longer here than in Europe. And that we have a history of torture here as well when we go overseas. (and it's current- Abu Ghraib and secret prisons anyone?) And that we're fighting a war considered reprehensible by almost every other country in the world. So Irishmafia, remember that many (most) other countries feel the same way about us. If we still have to be enemies with all communist nations, let's also stop dealing with oppressive Saudi Arabia. Whaddaya say? (Message edited by j_to_the_jeremy on November 18, 2008) |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 844 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 4:54 pm: | |
Good point about Saudi Arabia. We like to talk about all of the "evil empires" but it hasn't stopped us from cutting deals with most of them. As for buying Chinese, that's been a choice. The Chinese haven't forced us to buy their goods, "we", as in Americans in general, chose to buy their goods. Why? Because they were better made, or safer, or needed? No, we mostly bought them because we wanted them cheap and we wanted as much of whatever it was that we wanted. We could have bought American, we could have supported local businesses and American business. But instead, we went for quantity and price and now we're paying the price. We can also thanks the leaders of American business. They decided that the best way to save a buck and boost profits was to outsource. We're now all reaping the rewards of those decisions as well. We want to blame everyone else but the truth is that most of us have played a role in leading us to the economy in which we live today. |
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5481 Registered: 02-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 4:59 pm: | |
LBP has lost his friggen mind. He, like so many of our leaders, holds back this region in so many ways. They seek to live an alternate reality that will never come to be. |
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3692 Registered: 07-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 5:03 pm: | |
Demagogues turn personal fears into political gain. The trick is, even when you agree with them, to remember that they're demagogues, and only in it for themselves, no matter how sweet what they say sounds. |
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1440 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 5:50 pm: | |
there is an additional aspect to the relentless buying of goods from china: for corporate america to create an economy in a country which has, by my last check, at least one-third of its people in poverty. now, provide employment for a better part of these folks, and you've added nearly 300 million people with manufacturing and technology jobs who can engage in western consumerism. they can smoke marlboros and drink pepsi and eat at pizza hut and drive buicks and snack on oreos and swill on budweiser just like the people in america. what bugs me the most about this endeavor is the impact it will have on the environment. there will be more mining of metals, more lead and mercury pollution, and more production of greenhouse gasses in a country that's already choking itself to death, literally. i had somewhat hoped that mccain would win this year's election so we'd get 30 to 45 more nuclear facilities, and end our dependence on foreign oil - while creating an economy around nuclear power. but that didn't happen, and now china will chug down the crude just like us, and perpetuate the volatility that exists in and around the countries that leverage power through petroleum. now, when you look at the intentions of corporate america, and understand the impact of their actions - maybe the enemy is "us." a greedy upper class of businessmen that sit on each others' boards, vote for each others' raises, and contribute to the campaign coffers of our elected officials - who, with steadfast resolve, are committed to address the issue of steroids in baseball. thanks, congress. the social elite in business and government have made plans that ignore the majority of the american populace, and care little. one does not need to look further than the malfeasance in credit industry, with washington looking the other way - especially on the heels of the folks who saw retirement funds vanish because of corruption in the energy sector, highlighted by enron's demise - and the implosion of the dotcom bubble, and the lessons that should have led to increased oversight by our government. china is an ideological enemy, that is for sure. the government is highly repressive and doesn't blink when it comes to executions. enemy of the state? bullet through the head within 48 hours. on any given day there might be over 200 executions. this is an example demonstrates the chinese governments unabated zeal for control. but, our greed-driven leaders see fit to partner up with them, and empower them; at what cost? since becoming a father, it struck me: we do our best to prepare our children for the world; however, we do far too little to prepare the world for our children. the questionable alliance of the united states and china makes me question our country's direction. food that kills our pets, toys that sicken our children, milk that takes the lives of chinese infants, air that the chinese cannot breathe - and working-class americans are expected to look the other way - but generally, they do. quelle dommage. |
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy
Post Number: 222 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 6:06 pm: | |
....Today Wal-Mart!...Tomorrow...The World! The only way to defeat the Chinese economically is to sell them products that will make them even fatter and lazier than their American counterparts. Twinkies for Industry!....Twinkies for Defense! |
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1441 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 6:09 pm: | |
quote:LBP has lost his friggen mind. He, like so many of our leaders, holds back this region in so many ways. They seek to live an alternate reality that will never come to be. despite brooks' peccadillo's, he's done quite a bit to foster communities with pride and fiscal restraint in oakland coutnry. call me a prude, but i think it was a smart and proactive measure for him to compel cities to include prohibitions against strip clubs in the city's charters. call it a moral version of the "broken window" theory; i support it. also, compared with the services many of oakland county's communities provide, the cost of government, by my estimation, has been held to a minimum. one could argue that he's been a hindrance to some of the planned development in detroit, which i'd love to see more of - but when the federal indictments are handed out, we'll see why he's been so reluctant to engage. |
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine
Post Number: 2419 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 10:40 pm: | |
Larry Brooks, you so crazy! |
Mrntgr Member Username: Mrntgr
Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - 11:31 pm: | |
Mauser765: "huh ? then dont." I thought what I said was pretty clear. No need to clarify my disdain for LBP's statement any further. And I won't attempt an intelligent conversation because it's not possible to have one about such a weak statement. |
Haikoont Member Username: Haikoont
Post Number: 37 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 12:29 am: | |
I wish the product of UD High School, undergrad and law would come back home to run things in Detroit. He's the most competent politician in the state. He's as polarizing as they come, but it's like Bill Laimbeer or Chris Chelios -- you like him if he's on your team. |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 2129 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 9:52 am: | |
quote:Sorry for the coarse language, but this is absolute bullshit. This is just plain stupid. I don't give a shit how passionate LBP is. It's not even worth having intelligent conversation about. I was going to refrain from commenting because this person is new and it's never nice to take someone to task if they are newbies. But then ...
quote:I thought what I said was pretty clear. No need to clarify my disdain for LBP's statement any further. And I won't attempt an intelligent conversation because it's not possible to have one about such a weak statement. Hmmm, well Mrntgr, I think you might want to take notes. Let's look at your post shall we? On on conceptual basis you apparently think LBP isn't worth your comment, but you decide to comment that you're not commenting. In logic class you know what that is called? Do you? In polite society it is called circular logic. In less polite circles it is called something else. No one here knows who you are, so why should we care that you don't care? Really. What makes you so special Mrntgr that we should be impressed by lack of caring? Is the simple fact that you exist enough of a motivation for the rest of us to sit back in awe at your command of language and logic and prostrate ourselves at your compelling argument? That premise is arrogant in the extreme; hence, in the context of this forum, since no one knows you, your comments - and you in particular - are meaningless. But let's look why you are meaningless.quote:Sorry for the coarse language, but this is absolute bullshit. The grammar police would howl this is absolute bullshit leads the reader to think that this refers to coarse language; so when one reads your attempt at communication it reads like Sorry for the coarse language, but coarse language is absolute bullshit.. Hmm, Coarse Language is Absolute Bullshit!? I think you're on to something there, but since that isn't what you meant, then your words are meaningless. Let us go closer, ok? quote: This is just plain stupid. Since we have learned that this refers to coarse language, the above sentence reads like, Coarse language is just plain stupid. Again, you may be like a truffle pig at unearthing valuable insights, but since that was not your intention, your words are meaningless because that is not what you meant. Confused yet?
quote:I don't give a shit how passionate LBP is. I did not know anyone was out collecting poo samples, but since you refuse to give does that mean you sell your poo? Do you feel like this might be a growth industry for Detroit? In the idomatic parlance of large thinkers as yourself we could surmise a smidgen of meaning; but alas, your writing is so unclear, we are left to wonder.
quote:It's not even worth having intelligent conversation about. Besides the obvious vagueness of the contraction It's and whatever it is suppose to refer, we could assume it might mean absolute bullshit or it might mean coarse language or it might refer to Mr. Patterson's passionate defense of the auto industry. Absolute Bullshit is not even worth having intelligent conversation about Coarse language is not even worth having intelligent conversation about Mr. Patterson's passionate defense of the auto industry is not even worth having intelligent conversation about Since the meaning of It's is unclear it is therefore without meaning. Or, in other words, it is meaningless. So, just to review: - We have established no one knows you but you think your opinion trumps others. -We have established you think we should be impressed by your non-comment comment. -We have established your words are meaningless. -We have established that your commenting on not commenting is an example of circular logic and therefore illogical. Moreover, we have established the vagueness of your writing leaves one to wonder as to the soundness of your singular grasp of reality and your import in this world. Hence, in just three short posts, you have established yourself as an arrogant, self-important bloviator of meaningless and a general turd sandwich. |
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 911 Registered: 05-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 10:07 am: | |
LBP- I hate to say it, is also a big "Part of the Problem" and his thinking, and urban planning is straight out of the 1960's. Had he tried to work on diversify Oakland Counties economy and make it livable, deal with traffic and transit issues it might be a decent place. Instead he spent his time extolling the virtues how many golf courses are there, promoting urban sprawl (that we now have to pay for sewers and roads in foreclosed subdivisions, and empty strip malls), and putting his name on every piece of literature that is in connection with Automation Alley, and in the end the tax base in Oakland County will sink like a stone, because what he pushed was never sustainable long term. I don't know who I despise more- L. Brooks Paterson or Kwamme's Mommy Kilpatrick. |
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765
Post Number: 3537 Registered: 01-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 11:21 am: | |
=Whew= The Gnome, laying down the LAW ! lol |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 851 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 11:42 am: | |
Cinderpath has it right. LBP's efforts at diversifying the County's tax base have only come in the past few years when it was clear that the Michigan economy wasn't going to turn around anytime soon. His most reckless position has been his advocacy for urban sprawl at the expense of transit and liveable urban areas. He pushed for the I-75 expansion and opposed any linkage to expanding transit into the county. What did we get? Neither of them. A leader would have seen the need for transit and found a way to make them both happen (if the 75 expansion was really needed). Instead, he's left most of Oakland County at the mercy of a transportation system that is looking more unsustainable every day. |
Mrntgr Member Username: Mrntgr
Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 5:33 pm: | |
Gnome, You call me a turd sandwich. I say you're a douche. And I mean it every bit as much as you did when you called me that. I'll leave it at that and call it even steven on the witless insults. You will get no argument about the passion of LBP's statement. However, that passion is rooted in a b.s. argument. The idea that China is the enemy because of their capitalistic success is asinine. Our nation has made efforts to spread capitalism and democracy around the globe. I guess it was great while we were on top and the man beneficiary. I'm no enemy of capitalism, but I do believe that we need to accept the good with the bad. Don't try to paint the Chinese as the enemy because they are successful in the same system we participate in. It's all quite hypocritical. The LBP's passion only makes it worse. Kind of like, well, setting a turd sandwich on fire. To all, I apologize for the tone of my earlier posts. I read the news every day like you, and there has been a ton of B.S. thrown out from both sides of the fence. This crisis is very frustrating, and when I saw the statement it literally angered me. It does not do anything to help matters. I stand behind my opinion that pointing the finger at the Chinese is stupid, and his passion is irrelevent. Don't blame the Chinese or any other nation for being successful and beating us at our own game. |
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3944 Registered: 09-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 - 5:47 pm: | |
Wow Gnome. I nominate your post for the "telling the Newbie like it is" award. |
Gnome Member Username: Gnome
Post Number: 2130 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 1:48 am: | |
Dear Mrntgr, The TS comment was not an insult, it was the summation, the culmination, the distillation of the meaningless which is you. See, that is an insult. The Turd Sandwich was a literary device intended to give levity at the end of a lengthy analysis, to wit: a joke. Again, you missed my point just as you missed Mr. Patterson's point. His main point had nothing to do with China; he used China as an illustrative example of Federal trade policy gone off the rails. Has lack of comprehension been a lifelong problem Mrntgr? Do you mistake jokes for insults as often as you misidentify illustrative tools as main points? Before you answer, try to think back, did the Short Bus take you to school? |
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1458 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 8:01 pm: | |
from http://www.smh.com.au/news/tec hnology/security/panel-warns-o f-chinese-computer-espionage/2 008/11/21/1226770695717.html
quote:A US congressional advisory panel says China has stepped up computer espionage attacks on the American government, defence contractors and businesses. The US-China Economic and Security Review Commission also said in its annual report to Congress that aggressive Chinese space programs are allowing Beijing to target US military forces better. "China is stealing vast amounts of sensitive information from US computer networks," said Larry Wortzel, chairman of the commission set up by Congress in 2000 to advise, investigate and report on US-China issues. The commission of six Democrats and six Republicans said in the unanimously approved report that China's massive military modernisation and its "impressive but disturbing" space and computer warfare capabilities "suggest China is intent on expanding its sphere of control even at the expense of its Asian neighbours and the United States". this story has been the news this week; china knows that by disrupting satellite communications (including the gps backbone) and computer networks, our military would be rendered largely ineffective. troops would be unable to communicate or locate each other, and guidance systems would be compromised, goes the story. it was stated that china is trying to determine which nodes of the united states' computer network to attack to create massive disruption for a strategic military advantage. while brooks' statements are sometimes a bit rowdy, at least he reveals he's more tuned in to the world political scene than many of our local leaders seem to be. he has an astute business acumen, and strives to define and implement programs and systems with long-term benefit. |