 
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3606
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 4:35 pm: |    |
quote:-NYC has the demand to justify these. BE does not.
Why do you need demand to justify something that costs nothing? What is there to be lost from trying something differently in a place that is desperate to be rescued?
quote:-NYC has mass transit available to these. BE does not.
So Detroit should die because it doesn't have a train system? I'm the first to admit that it needed one 40 years ago. That doesn't in anyway negate that changing the ordinances (or zoning) might help to save this neighborhood.
And changing the zoning rules doesn't mean a train system can never be built. In fact, considering Boston Edison's location, it is very likely that it will be well served by a train line if one is ever built.
quote:-brownstowns are somewhat easily converted into rental. a mansion is not.
I assume you speak so authoritatively from experience?
quote:-there are plenty of other rental areas that are more attractive than BE.
That is beside the point. Again, the point is doing something to save Boston Edison. There are cities more attractive than Detroit. Does this mean everyone will choose to live in these cities over Detroit?
quote:-converting these old mansions into rentals has a strong history here of turning them into "flop houses." this in turn results in lowered maintenance, lowered rent, and lower income peoples. this is why such ordinances and/or zoning has been introduced.
Why is this? Is this caused by Detroit's own regulations regarding rental properties, perhaps? Is Detroit some mystical place where rental properties can't be successful?
quote:-these mansions are much more valuable and desireable as large old houses. once you lose that, it will make them less marketable in the future.
I guess that's why they are selling for less than the price of a Toyota Corolla.
quote:-i don't believe the residents in the area want this.
I can't argue with that. As I said before, this is what I would push if I lived there. I don't live there. But if I did, I would be open to all suggestions to save my neighborhood and investment. |
Brandon48202
Member
Username: Brandon48202
Post Number: 237
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 4:44 pm: | |
O'Connor Realty has a house for sale in B-E for $9,900. The address is 2255 Edison St. |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1587
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 5:05 pm: | |
quote:Why do you need demand to justify something that costs nothing? even if you were to just open the front doors to a lot of these places, many still require at least some money for renovations upgrades. but if you're talking about just renting rooms out, then you change the classification of these: they would become a commercial building (in essence, turning it into a residential hotel). you then run into having to install sprinklers, making the building ADA accessible, etc. which then becomes incredibly cost prohibitive for the time and area.
aside from that, the market that is out there right now for SRO's (single room occupancies) is very little. what little there is tends to be at the very bottom of the socio-econimic food chain. henceforth the "flop house" i was talking about.
now if you're talking about splitting them into apartments, you might not have as much retrofitting. however there would still be substantial money involved.
quote:So Detroit should die because it doesn't have a train system? that wasn't my point. since it is not a walkable community and there is no mass transit, it is attractive to neither SRO or rental apartments that are popular in this area right now.
quote:I assume you speak so authoritatively from experience? you assume correctly.
quote:That is beside the point. no it's not. it would cost money to renovate these into whatever you're talking about. this would drive up the rental costs. there are many other existing rentals out there that would undercut whatever rates these would come in as. and BE does not have the location or amenities to demand higher prices than many other rentals out there.
quote:Why is this? Is this caused by Detroit's own regulations regarding rental properties, perhaps? Is Detroit some mystical place where rental properties can't be successful?
no, it doesn't. see above. there is so much housing around here that the people you're thinking about renting them. you said it yourself: why not buy one of these houses and live in it yourself for the price that you'd pay in rent? also, there simply aren't the amenities to justify the rental prices that would be needed. there also simply isn't the market for it.
quote:I guess that's why they are selling for less than the price of a Toyota Corolla.
nope, that's not the reason. maybe you've heard the economy is terrible right now. or that it's almost impossible to get a mortgage. or a renovation loan. or that detroit is having some problems of late.
i'm sure the neighbors are open to any suggestions to improving their neighborhood. which is why i responded. your idea simply does not work in that area, in this market, or economic climate. i mean if it was a viable idea, then you'd this type of thing in all of the historic neighborhoods (because all of them are hurting). it's not a new idea and it's been tried here in the city before. there are more of these houses converted into rentals that are abandoned than there are functioning.
(Message edited by rsa on November 11, 2008) |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 1216
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 5:40 pm: | |
quote:I was looking into a couple in Boston edison. Always been my first pick and started looking there in the 80's. Recently w the plummeting prices I considered it again. Till I saw the average tax bill was $1000 a month. sigh, guess I;ll never get to live there ....... dammit This is bad misinformation. With the current City of Detroit millage and the NEZ reduction that is available in Boston Edison, someone would have to make a home purchase in excess of $500K before he would have a $1,000 per month tax bill.
With regard to the zoning issue, a change in the zoning to multi-family from the current R-1 would kill the neighborhood in less than 5 years. There is no way it would "save" the neighborhood. Group homes would appear overnight and the current middle class residents would flee with good reason. Picture old Brush Park and current East Grand Blvd.
That said, if one could find responsible, quiet, non-deadbeat housemates, Gnome's plan is not that far-fetched. Here's some napkin numbers sure to be torn apart by the real estate developers. Let's say Dad buys the place for $10K and invests an additional $90K for renovations. In this situation, his monthly expenses would include (estimates obviously) P&I $780/mo on a $90K/15year loan, $400/mo for taxes (maybe less if he can appeal the SEV down way below $50K, $400/mo for utilities, and $200/mo for insurance. Total: $1,780/mo. If Dad factors in $900/mo rent from three roommates, $500/mo dorm payment that he's not making for Frenchy, and depreciation, he's not all that far from "positive" cash flow. Dad probably needs the tax shelter anyway, right? And who is to say that the place won't appreciate in 5-7 years? |
Englishkills
Member
Username: Englishkills
Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 5:55 pm: | |
Iheartthed said in a post above:
"I bet if you showed the residents of Boston Edison the neighborhoods in Harlem where the city of New York was selling brownstones for $1 just 10 years ago, and how those same brownstones easily fetch $1M - $1.5M today then the residents of Boston-Edison might reconsider their position."
I was unaware that the City was selling brownstones in Harlem for $1 in 1998-1999. Where did you get this info if you don't mind me asking? Do you know people who bought for $1?
Lets look at the data from zip codes 10026, 10027, 10030, 10031 and 10035 for the year 1998. Those five are generally considered part of Harlem.
Let me know if this area works for you as a fair representation of Harlem. I didn't include 10029 to the south even though some of 10029 is Spanish Harlem. Values were generally higher due to the higher sale prices in the southern part of the 10029 zip. My leaving out that zip code works in your favor.
Now, for those zip codes I've mentioned above in 1998 the median sale price for a 1-family home was $158,000, for a 2-family was $272,000 and for 3-family units, the majority of the housing stock in that area, the median figure was $301,000. The lowest price I come across in those zips in '98 for any housing unit was $83,000...
You seem to be somewhat familiar with housing prices in 2008 in Harlem so I won't get into those numbers with you. Let's just say your numbers are a bit off. Although condos and townhouses sell in the $1-1.5m range, it is far from the norm. Let me know if you'd like the most recent figures.
I'm very interested in knowing of examples of the city giving away brownstones for a buck in the late 90s though, especially since I was working for a city agency at the time. Your experience and memories seem a bit different than mine.
Not trying to give anyone a hard time here, it's just every now and then I come across a statement so inaccurate that i feel the need to formulate a response. |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 521
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 9:23 pm: | |
Englishkills, thanks for your post. As a 25 year resident of New York City (I now live in Boston), I agree with what you said. There may have been a time when brownstones in Harlem were sold for $1, but it was definitely not in 1998.
Moreover, Iheartthed, I do not think you are comparing apples to apples. At its worst, New York City had only lost about 10% of its peak population. Detroit has lost over half. Moreover, New York has always been the country's biggest financial, insurance, real estate, and media center, even when there was really bad crime and other problems. Detroit, in comparison, has lost most of its manufacturing base and the manufacturing base that remains is shrinking by the year.
In Boston-Edison, there simply is not the demand for a large number of higher-rent apartments. This means that the apartments would be low-rent, and would attract those at the bottom of the socieconomic scale. This could very quickly lead to flophouses.
In contrast, Harlem's real estate is now so expensive is because demand is so high uptown and midtown that people are looking for good housing farther and farther from midtown. So far, there is no evidence that a similar effect is going to make Boston-Edison desirable for a large number of apartments. The supply of apartments is already quite high, and rents already quite low for a city. That being so, apartments are likely to attract those on the lowest end of the socioeconomic scale, leading to flop-houses. |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 9:40 pm: | |
I was quoted the $10,000 a year by the selling agent. Im sure they werent trying to discourage me. Per the Boston edison web site alot of the tax cuts have expired and the new (higher) tax rate is applied on the assessed value, not the selling price. Only tax breaks left are for $'s spent on improvements and at least the state one isnt till improvements are completed and its a one time only "rebate" , at least on the state one. Im sure I read the info correctly. |
Drm
Member
Username: Drm
Post Number: 1181
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 9:49 pm: | |
quote:Looks like the Fisher home that had been up for sale for several years is no longer listed. (It had originally been listed at $1.2 million, and was at $895,000 last time I looked). Does anyone know whether it was sold? Or did the owner take it off the market. It was sold. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 342
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 10:20 pm: | |
Can't find where the NEZ breaks expired. That would seriously affect my decision to move up there. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 1217
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 11:51 pm: | |
N7hn, you are getting bad information and you are mixing up several tax programs.
quote:I was quoted the $10,000 a year by the selling agent. Im sure they werent trying to discourage me. Property taxes are reset upon a sale of the property. Based upon the current City of Detroit property tax millage (excluding any NEZ reduction), a sale would have to occur at around $300K to trigger a $10K tax bill. With the NEZ tax reduction, that sales figure goes up to approximately $400K. However, if you're buying in this range, then your agent was correct with his or her tax estimate. What price range are you looking in?
quote:Per the Boston edison web site alot of the tax cuts have expired and the new (higher) tax rate is applied on the assessed value, not the selling price. You have misread the BE website and are misunderstanding Proposition A. No "tax cuts" are expiring. Rather, whenever a sale occurs, the "taxable value" (the assessment upon which the property's tax is calculated) is reassessed and established at 50% of the market value (State Equalized Value "SEV") of the property. Prop A caps annual increases to a property's taxable value, so current longtime owners almost always have a taxable value that is far less than 50% of market value. In other words, a sale uncaps previously capped tax increases. But none of this changes the fact that any recently sold property in an NEZ Homestead eligible neighborhood would not have a tax bill of $10,000 unless it was sold for approx. $400K.
quote:Only tax breaks left are for $'s spent on improvements and at least the state one isnt till improvements are completed and its a one time only "rebate" , at least on the state one. Im sure I read the info correctly. The program you are referring to is the Michigan Historic Rehabilitation Tax Credit program which is a state income tax credit program. It has nothing to do with property taxes. It is, however, a highly valuable tool for owners who complete rehabilitation projects that have a cost that exceeds 10% of a home's SEV. If you buy a house in Boston Edison and spend $100K in renovations, the state will essentially pay $25K of the cost in the form of reduced income taxes for the owner. This is an amazingly good deal for everyone involved. In the example above, an owner/taxpayer making $100K/year would have no Michigan income tax liability for six years after the project was completed and certified.
N7, contact the Historic Boston Edison Association. They have folks who will steer you straight on this stuff. Agents who are inexperienced with Detroit and historic districts and NEZs often get it wrong. Yes, taxes in Detroit are higher than surrounding communities, but the gap is narrowing. Don't let wrong information steer you away from a great neighborhood. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 2841
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 12:01 am: | |
Isn't it so sad that a homeowner can't determine what taxes they will pay on a home they will buy?
It is a testament to the dumb tax laws coming out of Lansing and the tax sucking politicians and to confuse the populace. |
Lodgedodger
Member
Username: Lodgedodger
Post Number: 874
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 12:14 am: | |
Cman, I believe this house is back on the market. This time, the listing has many photos. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 343
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 1:43 am: | |
Swingline that's good to know. Told my wife without those breaks I won't even consider moving up there. Between property tax, auto insurance and home insurance Detroit is pretty expensive but workable with the NEZ tax break |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 77
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 2:31 am: | |
swingline, its part some things I know from being a homeowner and others Ive been informed by the B.E. website. I;ll try and link info when I have more time and less sleep in my eyes = ). One thing tho even if the $300,000 mark is the trigger for 10,000 in taxes its still bad. In l.a. now i only pay 3200 on a home valued at $400,000. and yes Lefty, it SHOULD be easier to find out to plan your expenses. Even with the NEZ you have too have the deed in hand and apply for it , which means you could be denied. Same with the state credit. State site says "It is highly recommended that you get work approved by the State BEFORE you undertake your project. Even if only part of your project does not meet "The Secretary of the Interior's Standards" you will not receive the credit for any part of your rehabilitation and you will not be eligible to apply for the credit for 5 years."...... nice thing to happen after youve spent money improving but get denied for some non apparant reason, |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 1093
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 3:14 am: | |
As an urban planning student, I am not expecting immediate implementation of a transit plan, however I do HONESTLY believe that there WILL BE rail transit in Detroit within 10-20 years. If/when this occurs, it WILL be on Woodward and WILL pass right through Boston Edison. I don't need to preach to the choir here that whatever the cost/benefit to the region as a whole the area in the immediate vicinity of the transit WILL benefit tremendously... Tell your parents that this means tremendously increased property values on the horizon in Boston Edison, New Center, Midtown, and Downtown along the Woodward Corridor. |
Reddog289
Member
Username: Reddog289
Post Number: 690
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 4:14 am: | |
Shoulda never hit this thread, I wanna move. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3607
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 7:35 am: | |
quote:Moreover, Iheartthed, I do not think you are comparing apples to apples. At its worst, New York City had only lost about 10% of its peak population. Detroit has lost over half.
Harlem also lost half of it's peak population at one point. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 1218
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:02 am: | |
N7, you can't be denied for the NEZ. All homestead purchases made since 1997 are entitled to the exemption. There could be a one year delay depending on the timing of your application.
Your historic rehab tax credit can be denied if you don't follow your approved project plans which must comply with the Sec. of Interior standards for historic rehabilitation. |
Troy
Member
Username: Troy
Post Number: 259
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:48 am: | |
Dont worry about the auto insurance either. Under the new AAA system if you have a good record your insurance will be relatively affordable. All my neighbors switched to AAA under their new system. My insurance is actually cheaper in Detroit than in some suburbs now. Call an agent and price it out.
The tax roles might not get updated when you buy the house and you might get hit with higher home taxes the first year. You will have to go back and fight showing the purchase price to reset the SEV. |
Kensingtony
Member
Username: Kensingtony
Post Number: 29
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 10:30 am: | |
Here's a story that may or may not give insight into the mindset of B/E residents.Many years ago(late 70's/early 80's)I and some friends went on a house tour there.At one of the first stops our tour guide spoke with unbridled enthusiasm of how the homeowners group got an order of Catholic Brothers ousted from their residence because they weren't all of one "family".The glee was very apparent in her voice.Later on we toured a house that was being renovated and it was obvious that the new owners weren't of one "family".They were 3 or 4 gay guys(remember this was a long time ago).The fact that THESE folks weren't related was apparently considered acceptable.It was the difference of attitude in the two situations that chafed at my sense of equality and fair mindedness.And no,I wasn't,and still am not, a homophobe.
I do wish I remembered all the houses we toured back then.The only one I do recall is Berry Gordy's house and that's only because of the painting of his parents that hung on the wall of the tunnel to the pool building done with them as the couple in Grant Wood's painting "American Gothic"(!).I nearly laughed out loud when I saw that and my not easily surprised buddy even was taken aback at the tackiness of it.What was that about money and bad taste? |
Courtney
Member
Username: Courtney
Post Number: 177
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 10:58 am: | |
quote:they would become a commercial building (in essence, turning it into a residential hotel). you then run into having to install sprinklers, making the building ADA accessible, etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ADA requirements for hotels/inns are only for those containing over 5 rooms for rent. If I understand it correctly, it also does not apply if the owner occupies the place. Are there really that many homes in BE that have 6+ bedrooms?
I can understand why there are restrictions to multiple families occupying a traditionally single family neighbourhood, but it has obviously not been working out so great for a number of years. IMO, it would be far better to create an "unrelated residents" zoning if it's restricted to homes that are occupied full time by the owner(s) and limited to one unrelated adult per bedroom or two related adults.
A lot more people would likely be willing to buy and rehab these houses if they knew it would be possible to offset some of the costs they would be incurring. As it is, you have a lot of houses that many would consider too large for most singles or couples. Families that might look for such a large home aren't exactly flocking to the neighbourhood and until pretty major changes take place, I don't see that changing in the near future. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3608
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 11:10 am: | |
quote:A lot more people would likely be willing to buy and rehab these houses if they knew it would be possible to offset some of the costs they would be incurring. As it is, you have a lot of houses that many would consider too large for most singles or couples. Families that might look for such a large home aren't exactly flocking to the neighbourhood and until pretty major changes take place, I don't see that changing in the near future.
Exactly! This was my original point.
Someone might have the money to buy a 4,000 sq ft. home in Boston Edison, but might not need or want 4,000 sq. ft of living space. Hypothetically, they could split the home into two apartments and significantly reduce their expenses of maintaining the entire house.
This does not have to be the rule across the board. Some people might prefer to just purchase a house there and live in it alone. That's fine. But that isn't a compelling argument against changing the zoning to allow the houses to be split into multiple family dwellings.
As it stands now, the neighborhood is already turning into a ghetto with the current zoning laws in place. So the argument that it might bring undesirable residents into the neighborhood is moot, IMO. |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1588
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 11:51 am: | |
quote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ADA requirements for hotels/inns are only for those containing over 5 rooms for rent. courtney, there is no blanket rule for commercial rentals. research would need to be done for a specific use. you'd have to determine specifically what would be proposed (eg. an SRO, B&B, inn, hotel, rental apartments, etc.) and then do a code research to determine what would need to be done. i was pointing that out as something that would need to be thought of for renovation costs. i don't know off the top of my head what the ADA requirements for a specific room count for an inn. you're also assuming that someone would only convert the bedrooms into rentals. i've seen many homes that have also converted dining rooms, dens, attics, etc. into living quarters that would easily bring the number of rooms above 5.
if you wanted to do what you're proposing you can. you can apply for a variance or apply to change the zoning. my point is that there's no demand for this. no one wants to. no one in the neighborhood wants to see it either. the city simply isn't going to rezone the area based purely on unproven hypotheticals where there is no demand and it's unwanted.
i've also gone to great lengths in explaining the economics, the cost prohibitive nature of what you're proposing, and what type of people it would attract. it is simply not cost beneficial to do that in that area in this economic climate.
quote:So the argument that it might bring undesirable residents into the neighborhood is moot, IMO. it's not. instead of trying to stabilize the neighborhood, bringing in undesireable residents would only accelerate the decline and force the remaining residents out. so instead of having a nicer middle class neighborhood with a lot of potential, you'd have a handfull of "flop houses" surrounded by an even greater number of vacant houses that are already there.
you're assuming a lot of things and comparing it to healthy places where there is demand. i am telling you those assumptions are wrong. this is not a healthy place right now. there is no quick fix. your ideas have been tried in the past and have failed. |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 522
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 12:07 pm: | |
"Harlem also lost half of it's peak population at one point."
Iheartthed, you are correct. And Harlem was in pretty awful shape. But through all that time, there was a very dense urban area surrounding it, one with a lot of business, commercial, and media activity. Harlem did not begin to gentrify until those businesses boomed during the 1990s, attracting more residents to the city and pushing up demand for residential space in Manhattan, no matter where or in what neighborhood. That made rehabbing the old buildings worth it, and once the residents came, so did the businesses.
As of now, there is no evidence that Detroit is set up to be in a similar situation. Detroit has an underdeveloped downtown, meaning that if the downtown does boom in the future, there will be more than enough space to build new apartments and office buildings. Even with a boom, there is no evidence that there would be a market for rentals of the kind that Boston-Edison would provide. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3610
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 12:19 pm: | |
Boston Edison to New Center: 1.5 miles
Boston Edison to Wayne State University: 3 miles
Boston Edison to Downtown: 5 miles |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 523
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 2:43 pm: | |
So what? Comparing New Center, WSU, or downtown to Manhattan during the early 1990s is not valid. The number of differences is incredible. To consider just one, how many Fortune 500 companies are based in New Center or near Wayne State? Or even downtown? It is not close to comparable to NYC. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3611
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 4:15 pm: | |
This is what you said:
quote:Detroit has an underdeveloped downtown, meaning that if the downtown does boom in the future, there will be more than enough space to build new apartments and office buildings. Even with a boom, there is no evidence that there would be a market for rentals of the kind that Boston-Edison would provide.
I then pointed out to you that Boston Edison is in close proximity to two employment centers, as well as a large university. |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 524
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 4:31 pm: | |
That does not refute the point. The point is that in midtown and uptown Manhattan, the market for housing was already highly developed and also very occupied, even when the city had lost 10% of its population. Therefore, when the city did boom, the demand increased quickly for housing nearby. Eventually, this demand did help Harlem's gentrification. (For what it's worth, let's not lose track of the fact that, (a) this happened slowly, over 10-15 years, and (b) that Harlem is still not considered the most desirable real estate by many in the city.)
The distinction is that in Detroit, there is a large oversupply of housing to begin with. That being the case, how will there be a market for apartments inside former mansions, even if the economy does grow?
I suppose I can agree with you that if there was ever a long, sustained boom in Detroit that resulted in much higher density downtown, that your idea might work, the the very long-term. However, such a boom is not happening in the near future. What is likely in the near future is that if Boston-Edison houses were allowed to become broken up into apartments, that the apartments would attract low-rent tenants, leading to flophouses. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3612
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 4:51 pm: | |
quote:What is likely in the near future is that if Boston-Edison houses were allowed to become broken up into apartments, that the apartments would attract low-rent tenants, leading to flophouses.
Based on what happened in Brush Park? |
Cman710
Member
Username: Cman710
Post Number: 525
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 5:14 pm: | |
That is one piece of evidence, but there are many reasons. I will elaborate if you like, but I guess I would ask you, if this happened in Brush Park, why wouldn't it happen in Boston-Edison? |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 78
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2008 - 8:52 pm: | |
swingline. Thanks for the tip calling the BE assoc. I'll try and do that tomorrow. I know the city used to have an easily assessors site, that seems to have disappeared as well. I tried to find it today. But I will call tham. I love the area if I can swing it and return to detroit. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 344
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 2:10 am: | |
N7hn is that your call sign? If so I fell in love with your set up on QRZ |
Stingbeelee
Member
Username: Stingbeelee
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 2:30 am: | |
I am somewhat confused about houses and taxes. I am going to look at homes in the University District/Green Acres area. Are any of the listings to be believed? I looked up a couple of listings, but was scared off because of the high taxes. Would you have to pay the taxes as listed and wait until the appeal and the NEZ, which is about one year? I would not be able to afford paying the taxes for one month at the rates as described below. Here are two examples:
1. house listed at $113,500 and the taxes at $11,700. That means a mortgage of $544.00 with monthly taxes at $973.00; so I did not copy this listing.
2. house listed at $89,900 and the taxes at $10,957. would be mortgage of $431.00 with monthly taxes at $913.00. Yikes!
Would the city assess the house before you start paying the mortgage and putting the tax money aside?
Would the city assess these homes at such a high rate so that it would equal the tax numbers above, or would they assess at near the list price?
Is it true that usually the mortgage company wants an up-front payment of a couple of months of taxes, and would that reflect the high rates above?
Or am I just totally twisted and confused? |
Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 8:52 am: | |
no, it's the last assessed value plus non-homestead or homestead (discounted). Many of the assessed values of these homes is way out of range from today's (or yesterday's) prices. IF you were to buy one, you would have to contest the assessed value in Feb. That is the only chance. If you can make a good case, it will be re-assessed... and if you are living in it (homestead), then take 43% off.
We are looking at these homes and the taxes situation has caused us to not even look at some homes. The City needs to take care of this situation. |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 1220
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 9:58 am: | |
Yes, there is a lot of confusion about the property tax situation with a lot of Detroit houses because of the very volatile sales prices in the past few years.
In the 2000-2005 period, University District houses were selling in the $250K - $350K range. This was pre-NEZ, so the tax bills for houses sold in that period would have been in the $10K range. Additionally, in 2004 - 2006, there were dozens of sales generated in that neighborhood at inflated prices through mortgage fraud transactions. Houses involved in these fraudulent deals are going to have inflated SEV's. Any University District house that is now listed at less than $150K is a foreclosure either because of fraud or the other usual reasons. For the reasons described above, most foreclosure homes will have high tax bills. Tax bills that are not reflective of current market value can be reduced during the February - March tax appeal period.
Prospective buyers in Detroit shouldn't be scared off by property taxes. Buyers have to do some homework though. Broker information regarding taxes is often inaccurate or incomplete, especially if the broker is unfamiliar with Detroit. Most of the foreclosure brokers fall into this category. They don't know city government and they don't know the neighborhoods. They've only been retained to move product. |
Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn
Post Number: 272
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 10:09 am: | |
To sum this all up, if you want a house there, go check it out with real estate and City Hall Assesor's office. Get a property inspector to give you cost information on whatever you're interested in.
I did this and bought an old house without the benefits of blogging. As the old saying goes: "fish or cut bait" . |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 11:44 am: | |
a few things.... RID in confused about your comment on my "call sign" please explain. Maybe Im just not awake yet.
thing 2 I did call the b/e offices and seemed they were more about events and security only, not any additional info.
thing 3, I found this site for tax calculation, http://www.mirealestatetoday.c om/property_tax_estimator.htm , thing is on a low priced repo i still dont have a way to know a real value and or assessed value. per the directions this would mean is is a 300,000$ house that would hit 10,000$ a year. Just dont know if a $30,000 home would be considered that value because of location regardless of if it could be sold for that much or not. Still confused here |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 347
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 2:06 pm: | |
N7hn I thought that was your amateur radio (ham radio) call sign. Someone does have that call sign assigned and thought it was you |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 81
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 3:31 pm: | |
oh, no.... n7hn is just a good way to say "nathan" for most computer sites . Its almost never taken. = ) |
Stingbeelee
Member
Username: Stingbeelee
Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 4:48 pm: | |
Thanks to all for the info, it's all a little clearer. I still don't know if I'll look at the high tax properties, because from what I've been told, they want some of the future taxes up front during closing and I still don't have that kind of money to pay a couple of months up front and then appeal and then wait for the NEZ to kick in. |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 82
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 6:37 pm: | |
well, keep in mind there is always a tax bill that arrives about 6 months after you get in a new property too. I forget the term for it but its usually about a 3rd of the years total tax bill. Ive owned two houses and gotten one on each of them. Make sure to have some reserve. One thing no one has mentioned tho is when U buy a house from being a renter you do start getting more of a tax refund , or a refund if you usually dont get one. In all the complaining we have done I figured Id mention a good point too. = ) |
7051
Member
Username: 7051
Post Number: 175
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 11:25 pm: | |
Detroitduo, Stingbeelee or any others interested in the Univ. District or nearby neighborhoods - please contact me at detbest@yahoo.com with your phone number. I have lived in the neighborhood 10 years and understand the property tax structure, NEZ, environment, etc. |
Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2008 - 5:00 am: | |
Thanks 7051.
Actually, we ended up making an offer on a house in Indian Village. I am very superstitious about offers and buying houses, so I won't say anything more. I have found, the more excited you talk to other people about a house you want to buy, the less likely the offer will be accepted.
Anyway, I wish all of you good luck and I just have to say, now is the time to be looking at these houses, but if you are saying that you can't afford a couple months of $1000 taxes until it can get adjusted, these houses may be too much for you to handle. MOST of these houses need updates, new this or new that. The homes are HUGE and require a lot of TLC. Owning one of these historical homes is a labour of love. It will require putting in extra time and extra cash... every month! if you are not prepared for that, then you should consider a smaller house. This is not directed to anyone in particular, just making a statement based on a few of the posts here and personal experiences. |
Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn
Post Number: 273
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2008 - 9:01 am: | |
Absolutely, Detroitduo. Old homes are $800 here, $10,000 there, as I've found out.
It's a balance between large tax bills and my crown molding ceilings and one of a kind doors.
Don't rush in if this makes you sleepless at night |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 83
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2008 - 12:21 pm: | |
good advice and so true. Personally Im concerned more about the taxes because I will be returning jobless. Id rather put money into updates and upkeep then taxes. Least till I get working. If any of u wanna just hire me now, Id sleep better.....(wink)....home ownership is a moneypit in general, so Its important to not bite of more than u can chew, but also to make informed decisions. In this case that seems to be the harder part. = ) |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1523
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 8:15 pm: | |
The main problem with B-E is that the houses are huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuge. Few people need that much space these days. Heating costs are astronomical.
The other quip I have with buying there is that such a large percentage of the residents in the neighborhood (at least east of the Lodge) are elderly. Whenever you have a majority of a neighborhood's residents die off in a few years from each other, especially in this housing and job market, you're going to have massive abandonment and blight. |
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