  Jmil Member Username: Jmil Post Number: 1664 Registered: 12-2003 |
"...It's going to be one of the hardest jobs, if not the hardest job in the country. Based on where we are today and some of the things we are going to have to do, to come out of the tailspin an move forward. I don't want to be too specific right now..." From the Detroit News interview. http://info.detnews.com/redesi gn/multimedia/videogrid.cfm?ga llery=video&itemCategory=13 When do we get the specifics? Is he suggesting layoffs, selling the water system, relinquishing more city "jewels"? Why should we elect Dave Bing? Is he a carpetbagger? What makes him uniquely more qualified than those whom have not only worked/owned businesses in the city, but have chosen to "lay their heads here at night" and suffer the ills of the city like the voters that must elect him. He and his business associates/backed the former Mayor, until that train wreck damn near crashed. Jumping off that train only when it was obvious of the logical conclusion that there was no way to avoid a wreck. Not that it matters in the non partisan Mayoral race, but I would like to know if Bing is a Democrat or a Republican? | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 380 Registered: 08-2008 |
He is not a Republican. How can you make such a declarative statement based on no documentation? | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 476 Registered: 05-2006 |
"He and his business associates/backed the former Mayor, until that train wreck damn near crashed. Jumping off that train only when it was obvious of the logical conclusion that there was no way to avoid a wreck." quote Bing still did it before the rest of the business community had the guts to do it. I'm sure Dave will shortly make his case as to why he should become mayor. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 10460 Registered: 10-2003 |
Out of curiosity why does a mayor have to show allegiance to either party? What does federal politics have to do with municipal politics? | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1498 Registered: 11-2005 |
Carpetbagger.  | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 369 Registered: 03-2007 |
I agree with Goat. Dave Bing is a very successful businessman. IMHO we need to look at the running of a city like a business, not like a political stepping stone or public trough. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1499 Registered: 11-2005 |
We all agree on that. Sadly, most of our fellow voters don't. | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 228 Registered: 09-2008 |
We definitely need someone who thinks outside the box. The same old, same old doesn't cut it anymore. Who cares what party he is affiliated with if he can do the job. I like the fact Bing says he would only be a one term mayor. Too many have let stuff slide because they were only looking at winning the next election. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 299 Registered: 10-2007 |
Since I can't document my previous statement, Downtown Lady, I'll retract it. However, Devin Scillian in the DB Business Magazine stated: quote: This IS a non-partisan election. I think that Mr. Bing can be effective as mayor. http://www.dbusinessmag.com/op inion.php?id=1101 | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3512 Registered: 10-2003 |
Part of the challenge is that if Bing is not a Democrat, many of the things that come to cities from teh federal level are advocated through party affiliated channels. Young got funding through his relationship with Carter... Archer got funding through his relationships with Clinton. Will Bing have this connection to the White House and other party appartchicks if he has no affiliation to the Democratic Party? If Bing is a Democrat, then he should say so. If he is a Republican then he should state that as well, so we know as voters his political stances on things. If he were running for a city manager job, then it would be different, but he is running for a political office that impacts other things, judical appointments, political conventions. A mayor is relied on to get out the vote in cities and to collaborate with leaders within political parties to deal with societal issues. We will need to know if he has a political preference.... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3571 Registered: 04-2006 |
^What if he is a registered independent? Should that disqualify him? | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 300 Registered: 10-2007 |
Here is who he really supports, financially anyway. Democrats as far as I can see here. http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/by state_detail.php?zip=48025&las t=Bing&first=David | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 723 Registered: 11-2003 |
Of course it would Iheartthed. The world is black and white. Our political system is Democrat and Republican. Didn't you know? | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2007 |
He could be somewhere in between parties, like Mike Bloomberg. Who is nominally a "Republican," has supported candidates of both parties, but has been a registered Democrat most of his voting life and shares very few positions with the national Republican party. Since Detroit, unlike NYC, has non-partisan mayoral elections, there is really no reason why Bing should have to declare his affiliation one way or another, and no reason why, like Bloomberg, he can't get along reasonably well with administrations of various parties in Lansing or Washington. One thing Bloomberg has done well is to recognize that running a government is different from running a business. One can bring principles and practices from the business world to bear on the requirements of governance, such as an emphasis on leadership, responsibility, and efficiency. But in the end government has a very different purpose than a company trying to make a profit, and does something quite different from, and in many ways the opposite of, what businesses do. Calling Bing a "carpetbagger" IMO is highly misguided. He's been a part of the Detroit community since the Pistons drafted him way back in 1966. And chose to come back to the city after his playing days were over and open his business - in a very tough industry. I am not necessarily supporting Bing, but the fact that Bing Steel has stayed in the city and employed Detroiters when so many other companies have chosen to leave makes complete and utter nonsense of any charge of carpetbagging. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1417 Registered: 11-2003 |
My problem with Bing (except smelling a little like a carpetbagger) is that running this city and running a business are very different, and makes me lean toward Hendrix or Cockrel. Some differences between business and government - although I do agree more efficiency is needed, there are differences. >> Due to union contracts, it's almost impossible to fire people for poor performance. You're forced to work with what you have in city government. You practically can't get rid of the municipal unions, so you need to deal with what you have and work collaboratively with people that you need to devise motivation for other than their jobs. >> Profit is not the central motive. So you need to clearly state your priorities and get buy-in, because everyone involved has important priorities and priorities that are valuable to them. You've got to pick winners; in a business, the winning priority is making money. If everyone has the same focus, it's a lot easier to move people. City government is like herding cats. You can't run the city like a business, but it shouldn't be a public trough. You need to run the city like... an efficient government. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7429 Registered: 08-2004 |
quote: Jmil, have you been in a coma for the last 6 months? Anyone who has kept abreast of Kwamegate knows full well that Dave Bing was the first and practically only major businessman in Detroit that had called for Kwame to step down MONTHS before he was finally removed. All other major business owners had theirs head in the sand, except for Peter Karmanos, who had his head up his ass. And speaking of carpetbaggers, those "holier than thou" megachurch ministers (many of whom supported Kwame) have nice plush digs in Bloomfield Hills and other burbs. Funny that. | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 383 Registered: 08-2008 |
DV, Dave Bing's companies are UAW shops, so he is very familiar with successfully dealing with unions, so that is one difference that I think can be crossed off. As for the other difference that you mention, I agree that in running a city, profit is not the central motive. However, the city has a deficit of at least $123 million. Until that is turned around, everything of importance -- all city services, police, fire -- will suffer. Therefore, someone that has been in business and knows how to make a profit would be a good thing. | ||
Melocoton Member Username: Melocoton Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2008 |
Running the government like a business worked really well when George W Bush, the MBA president, tried it. Can we retire that old slogan now? | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 384 Registered: 08-2008 |
You gotta be kidding me. Are you saying every business person is a clone of GWB? He is in a league of his own. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3513 Registered: 10-2003 |
The challenge Dtown _lady, is that budget shortfalls are not so much of wanton spending (although there is some) as they are of falling revenues from taxes as people leave the city. Is Bing gonna cut 15 departments and then say, hey you will get better services? will the unions abide this? or will Bing tax the crap out of businesses and individuals and then say 'stay in Detroit'? How does Bing plan to fix the structural deficit? | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 724 Registered: 11-2003 |
The United States Government is the biggest business in the world. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 674 Registered: 09-2006 |
We need someone who is very business savy, and yet intouch with what the city needs,, All of its needs are fine, but not very attainable unless you have the money to do it, I'd personally like to have someone like Bing in control. he also is fairly clean of inside pollution, which there is plenty of at city hall. I imagine a good portion of the current regime is shaking in their boots thinking if someone intelligent, capable and externally attached gets in, They would actually have to work for their checks. If Bing gets in, it certainly can't be any worse than the garbage KK and buds have dished out. I am sure all the insiders will try to call on the ministers to get together to trash Bing. You know how those guys act together... | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2007 |
It seems to me Zulu Warrior that there is only one way to deal with the structural deficit you so correctly point out, and that is to bring new money into Detroit. Taxing the mostly poor people and ever decreasing number of businesses in the city is going to do little or nothing, and drastically cutting services will make the city even more unattractive. For the moment, with the terrible economy, any new mayor will be between a rock and a hard place, and a lot will have to be ridden out before things turn around. But it seems to me that the trick is going to be in just how these times are ridden out, and what's done in the interim to take advantage of available opportunities. The city will need to attract more money from state and local governments. It has to use that money to look to a future where the whole area has a more diversified economy (and making sure that the city gets a significant part of that action), and find some way to slow and arrest the abandonment and blight making Detroit a more attractive place to stay, while also reducing the hopelessness of so many who are growing up in the city. A top priority has to be dealing with the mess in the school system. | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 385 Registered: 08-2008 |
quote: Good questions for all of the candidates to answer. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5509 Registered: 06-2004 |
City government is separate from the school system. That's not something the mayor can change, although a mayor could probably help mediate. I have little doubt there are state and federal programs the city could take advantage of but didn't during KK's all play no work administration. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1418 Registered: 11-2003 |
There are a lot of differences between the job of a lineworker and of a city employee. A pissed-off line worker doesn't show obviously to the outside; a pissed-off front line employee can make a lot of people's lives hell. In general, lineworkers don't make very many decisions; even bottom line city employees have to make lots of decisions. The culture is different in an office, too. I only say this because I've dealt with unions both in office and in factories and they are different animals with different responsibilities. One thing I liked from Hendrix's last campaign was the idea of a customer service training program, basically, teaching HOW the employees should deal with the public (it's not a skill everyone has). Personally, I think investing in yourself and improving yourself in a down economy is part of what makes you successful on the other side. Use Cobo for all the training - no hotel rooms, no expensive travel. Sure, it'll cost something - but I feel like a lot of city employees aren't given the tools they need to do their job effectively. And, although I think the $123 million dollar shortfall needs to be addressed immediately, we're talking about a 3.1 Billion dollar budget. We're talking about less than a four percent cut to get revenues in line. Many companies in this region would LOVE to be in a position to only need to cut four percent. So in perspective, it's not that bad nor insurmountable. And the world doesn't need to stop with a competent leader at the helm, there is still a lot the city can do. A great leader does multiple things at once; so should the mayor. | ||
Hamtramike Member Username: Hamtramike Post Number: 531 Registered: 12-2003 |
I would like to see the government run like a business too, however there's a fine line where safety is concerned. Public safety,a large part of the budget, can be tricky to run strictly by the numbers. Someone who can actually make the tough decisions should be welcomed by tax payers, but i would be leery about someone with such short term plans. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3514 Registered: 10-2003 |
Eastside deal... I agree with attracting money from state and federal places, but often that happens becaue of political affiliations. Whether Bing is a Democrat or not may affect this.. | ||
Melocoton Member Username: Melocoton Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2008 |
quote: No, I'm saying that Bush has discredited this idea of running "government like a business"--a strategy that resulted in the privatization of many functions in the military (i.e., running it like a business), the selling-off of public resources like land in nat'l parks and protected wilderness to private interests, the sellout of EPA, mining oversight, and other agencies to well-connected business interests, etc. etc.. There are a lot of reasons why government isn't a business. Here are a couple: a government is supposed to be democratic, accountable to its people; a business isn't. It's accountable to its board of directors, or maybe a class of shareholders, who of course aren't all "created equal," anyway. A business is also in the, well, business of making a profit. A government is supposed to be in the business of serving its people. I think many of us have a fantasy that businesses are efficient and governments aren't; governments are bureaucratic and businesses aren't; businesses know how to do stuff and governments don't. I just don't think there's much to this. Corruption is rampant in the business world--have you been reading the news about Wall Street lately? Have you ever called AT&T customer service? I could go on and on. I'd like the city government to provide the services we Detroiters need and to do it honestly and democratically. Maybe Dave Bing is qualified to try to do that, but the simple fact that "he runs a business" isn't evidence of it. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2007 |
"City government is separate from the school system. That's not something the mayor can change, although a mayor could probably help mediate." Yes, but that's something the people of the city could change. Remember, the state legislature gave Archer control of the schools back in '99. It was a referendum that reestablished the independent school board. NYC obviously has quite a bit more resources available than the City of Detroit, but mayoral control of the schools in NYC under "manager mayor" Bloomberg has made significant strides in dealing with many of the problems of their system. And it has worked reasonably well in other cities too. | ||
Pistonian_revolution Member Username: Pistonian_revolution Post Number: 135 Registered: 05-2006 |
i highly disagree with blueidon regarding the assertion that city government should be run "like a business." we hear this line all the time from businessmen when they run for a political post. this is supposedly their qualification for being a good mayor, governor, president, whatever. balancing the budget and making fiscal decisions and finding funds for programs is an important part of being a mayor. but the mentality and type of leadership that being a mayor requires is very different from that of a corporate ceo. and..... i was gonna say pretty much everything that melocoton just said. thanks melocoton. keep up the good work. i like to think of a city government as more of a nonprofit agency than a business. the city government's purpose is to provide public goods and services to its citizens such as public safety, utilities, road maintenance, civic property maintenance, schools, bureaucratic services, transit services, a democratic voice for the citizen in how the city is run, and many other services-by being funded by city taxes, federal and state money, the sale of bonds and possibly the income from utilities such as a water. if you have a corporate ceo running a city, you could end up with a person like bill gates or you could end up with a person like a former enron ceo. it's a crap shoot. but either way, you have a person whose leadership style is focused on a bottom line of profit, and not neccesarily being of service to the citizens. and havent we had enough of that with the kwamster for the past seven years? i think if dick devos had gotten elected as our governor, our state would be in an even bigger mess than it is now. i remember he ran almost solely on the platform that he is a successful CEO who would run michigan's government "like a business." | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 725 Registered: 11-2003 |
Have you ever heard of Michael Bloomberg and the City of New York? That city runs like a top. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2076 Registered: 03-2008 |
Like a top? Tops run well? I really like the job Cockrel has done thus far (both now, and before he was mayor). Anyone else has to not just talk, but show me through past actions that they can and will do better, in order to get my vote. Even then, he still has the experience working with (or at least knowing) the current employees and union officials. So they really have to show how they'll make up for that. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3515 Registered: 10-2003 |
Micheal Bloomberg is a card carrying Republican... | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5460 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well, if he still has a card, it expired. He left the party in '07. The more independents, the better. To quote Ferris Bueller, "a person should not believe in -isms." And honestly, why should Detroiters, at this point, care about the affiliation or non-affiliation to a national political party [neither of which does much for any city] of the next mayor? There are a lot of people out there that have good ideas and clout that could help the city, but I can assure you it has little to do with their party. Now, I'm not making much of this, but just tossing it out there: Detroit's had democrat mayors for as long as it has been declining. Personally, I think each failed the City for reasons other than their basic political credo (and for reasons they could not control i.e. a region/state which didn't support them), but honestly, to pretend that there should be a litmus test for potential mayors which requires them to be a democrat, after all this city has been through, seems a bit...pointless/absurd/counter intuitive? Further, it just sets you up to see candidates tell you that they're 'democrats for the working class' yada yada yada but harbor other sentiments. You won't hear what they really believe. Kilpatrick had many latent Republican-type tendencies, but they weren't advertised in the elections (for good reason). If we want any truth in advertising when it comes to candidates, the litmus tests have to go. The same goes for race and sexual orientation-- that's why I hope J. Fieger and B. Thomas run-- we'll see what type of barriers the people of Detroit are putting up. That said, Fieger is not the best test case because he's not from Detroit, doesn't even have an office in Detroit to my knowledge, and is just generally obnoxious. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3516 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Detroit's had democrat mayors for as long as it has been declining." Detroit's population decline began in the 1950's. Mayor's Miriani and Cobo were Republicans in the late 1950's and early 1960's. "but honestly, to pretend that there should be a litmus test for potential mayors which requires them to be a democrat, after all this city has been through, seems a bit...pointless/absurd/counter intuitive?" This nation is about to hand the broken shambles of the GOP its hat on next tuesday. Republicans are pretty much losing everywhere and you have the audacity to posit that it doesnt matter? A republican has less than a .001 chance of being mayor of Detroit, in this current political climate. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sorely misguided and is self-blinded to the political realities in Detroit electoral politics. The electorate will not stand for it. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5461 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well, in reality, the situation is never going to present itself, because the ballot is nonpartisan, but you could theoretically have a person that's extremely ready and willing to be mayor, and may be the best candidate, who will run as an independent presumably, but you're saying that if they've voted republican in a national election in the past, they shouldn't be mayor? Bing, for example, never has to say if he's a democrat or republican, as you want him to. Does that failure mean you won't vote for him, because of the scepter that he might have once voted republican. Would an educated individual actually base their vote on that litmus test? Because it seems to me that you're saying more than just the obvious, you're not only saying that Detroiters never would vote for a known republican [obvious], but also that they should not. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 1422 Registered: 11-2003 |
That, and Mackinaw, if you knew anything about it you would know that Fieger and Thomas indeed are NOT running for Mayor. Thomas took petitions and did not file them; Fieger never pulled petitions. You cannot be a republican and have a future in Detroit City politics. It does not happen, the republican party machine won't support you because you WILL lose. Detroit is a one party area; you pick what flavor of Democrat you want and your choice is in the primary. That's the reality, and that's the reality in a lot of America. People keep forgetting - Detroit is NOT diverse. It's 80% black plus - and just as a matter of reality, the vast majority of black folk are consistent democrats. Only 25% of New Yorkers are black; 44% are white. The black population does not control New York. Not to say one is better or worse - but it's statistics. So yes, it's a litmus test here. Deal with it, move on. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 3518 Registered: 10-2003 |
The situation is presenting itself as we speak. Hundreds of Millions of people will vote next week, based on the fact that someone is affillated with a party. It is an undeniable fact. Its is also true that there are people who switch their voting preference and dont stick to one party or another. These swing and independent voters decide most national election. But in a place that is largely partisan- like Detroit for the Democrats or like Utah for the Republicans....cross over makes little difference when you have one party dominance. I am a Democrat...and I will make my choice for mayor from among the Democrats. Even though the ballot is non-partisan, the governance is not. None of Detroit's mayor's have governed as a non-partisan, so in essence it does make a difference of party affiliation. | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2007 |
"Detroit is a one party area; you pick what flavor of Democrat you want and your choice is in the primary." Detroit elections are conducted on a non-partisan basis, so the final choice between candidates is actually in the November general election. I don't think in my voting lifetime a Republican has ever reached the general election in Detroit. We all make our choices from "among the Democrats." | ||
Ashdetroit Member Username: Ashdetroit Post Number: 22 Registered: 08-2008 |
On a positive note, I'm going to feel pretty honored to have to choose between Bing, Hendrix and Cockrel to be my next mayor. I think they will all be a step up from KK...even though I used to like him.  | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2939 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Oh. My. God. Are you actually suggesting that a would be President Barack Obama will be even more of partisan hack that President George W. Bush? Are you actually suggesting that Obama will be worse than the Shrub? I say this because Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and Philadelphia are all legendary Democratic strong holds with solid Democratic control over all the various parts of government. In spite of this, they've gotten a lot more out of the federal government during the Bush years than Detroit has. NYC is also largely a Democratic strong hold, even though it has seen two Republican mayors. (Republicans that are still far more liberal than any other Republican, but still in the "R" column.) If Obama is going to withhold benefits to Detroit, or otherwise punish us for having a mayor like Bing, then that would mean you're predicting Obama will actually be worse than Bush. Quite frankly, I have a lot of trouble believing that. quote: That's a very good question. I would like to know the answer to that, too. Of course, I also want to know how our interim mayor is going to fix since he was one of the people who helped to create it in the first place. And I'd like to know how the other candidates intend to fix it as well. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 8982 Registered: 10-2003 |
This thread has been the cause of me getting The Who stuck in my head every day this week. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2941 Registered: 12-2004 |
In that case, their record label will likely call soon asking for royalties. | ||
Jmil Member Username: Jmil Post Number: 1665 Registered: 12-2003 |
"Not that it matters in the non partisan Mayoral race, but I would like to know if Bing is a Democrat or a Republican?" Never did get a a straight answer to that question. Does it matter, sure! But not as deal killer, but part of the decision making process of whom I decide to support. Does it have to matter to you. NO! However I won't let you dismiss my concerns. Frankly, my most important issue that I would like to see addressed is CRIME - cue citylover. Unfortunately citylover was far ahead of his time on this forum. He was a single issue poster. Solve the crime problem and Detroit's problems would be cured. While I am not naive enough to believe all the problems will go away, I do belive that is the only issue that that next Mayor can solve. Current circumstances are beyond what any candidate can profess a solution to fix all that is wrong with Detroit. Regardless of who is Mayor, he/she will not be able to significantly increase the quality of life for city residents. | ||
Jmil Member Username: Jmil Post Number: 1666 Registered: 12-2003 |
Johnlodge is that the Who? I only know that song from CSI. But I know what you mean. It really is a catchy song that gets stuck in your head. Gistok, being first when you are already too late does not impress me. If I remember correctly the last posts I made was about when are folks going to get mad as hell and not take it any more. The response I got was they were already mad. All I could do was laugh, shake my head, and keep steppin' Time to stop buying into the hype, man up, and make a REAL difference. |
