  Eastsidechris Member Username: Eastsidechris Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2003 |
The home next door to us is now down to around $4000 in list price. Today my wife and have been in our yard since about 10 (it's now about 4:15) and we've seen numerous people come and go from the house, looking at it. Most have looked at it for about 2 minutes and then had the sense to take off. This lady showed up with two male companions earlier today and asked us about the neighborhood, if it was quiet, etc. I even tried to dissuade her from looking at the place, mentioning break-ins (she wanted to know if the place had been gutted) and the state of the porch and the garage (which are both falling in). Anyway, on her way back to her car, she mentioned that she was really interested in the house and informed us that she wanted to turn it into a group home . My wife and I tried to politely inform her that it wouldn't fly around here. She said it would be better than a vacant property, to which we said a vacant property is still better than the neighbors who lived there before. My question: Does anyone know if somebody can just open a group home wherever they want or if there have to be specific zoning regulations to start one? My rant: After we voiced our objections to her marvelous plan, lady had the nerve to say to us--me?--that "maybe ya'll need to try Livonia." No %^*$(@, maybe YOU need to try Livonia! We were here first, and if you were as concerned about the neighborhood as you tried to play it off that you are, no way you'd bring a group home in. The same goes for all the people in fancy cars coming by for a look that obviously have no intention of buying the home for themselves! These people with get-rich-quick real estate ideas in Detroit are not any better than slum lords who own tons of rental properties in the city. Wish they were as concerned with making the city better as they were with lining their own pockets. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 2611 Registered: 08-2007 |
We have two group homes within a block, one is for kids and one for elders. They've been here for years and there have been no problems. | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 485 Registered: 06-2006 |
Don't worry. If the home is in foreclosure, the bank isn't going to sell the home too soon. They will hang in there for months, til they get someone to buy it for the price they listed it for. We have a foreclosed home right next to ours in Flint. I would say a thousand (not kidding) people have looked at this home. They even had someone in escrow to buy it, ut it's still an empty house. I think the banks are just sitting on these homes. They are in no hurry to sell them. I am sick of all these strangers pulling next door and tramping all over, checking out the house and garage. Seems to me, they are just creating their own problems hanging onto these homes. It's listed for $32,000 for a two bedroom, double lot. It's a nice home, but how many people would be interested in a two bedroom? Retirees or single person households. I called the realty company and asked if they had any progress on the sale. That was a month and a half ago, they said they had someone that was going to buy it. Must have fell thru, because the strangers are back, checking out the house and garage again. I AM SICK OF IT. GET ME A NEIGHBOR ALREADY. The kids who skip school are hanging out there. We call the cops or chase them out. Thanks for letting me rant... | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1519 Registered: 11-2006 |
Eastside Chris, The group home idea is/can be a great one. There are many people who would think not, however, since one opened up in our small city the recovering addict (alcohol/drug) men (six of them) have been exemplary neighbors. Think about it. These are people who are supervised and are not allowed to have ANY substance harder than iced tea in their home while they are there. They are wanting to leave their addict lives behind and will do anything to do so. If a home for mentally challenged persons opens up next door, you may find yourself helping out with plantings in the yard, etc. I truly believe that a group home would be great for your block. Welcome that idea in your mind instead of resisting it. There are so many rules and regulations for these homes that if there was a problem with loud music or whatever you can talk to the board of directors and they will fix it. It would be so much better than a family with teenagers. Just try complaining to a family about a barking dog or loud music. You don't get far! Good luck to you. | ||
Urbanfisherman Member Username: Urbanfisherman Post Number: 40 Registered: 07-2008 |
People have enough problems living in Detroit. Subjecting people to life next to a group house full of who knows what kind of people is NOT a good thing. Think of the property values... Think of the potential ex-cons living that close. The fairy tale life where you get to help the friendly slow people do their yardwork is unlikely to play out. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 419 Registered: 11-2007 |
If you are living next to a house that lists for $4000 and is vacant, and regularly being used by people who shouldn't be there, I don't really see how a group home is a step down, or very likely to have much of an impact on your property values either. That doesn't mean you have to like it. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 1433 Registered: 02-2006 |
I had a group home built and occupied two doors down from me, in the suburbs, at a previous residence. I was worried about everything imaginable, and for no reason. I would rather have that group home now than some of the "normal" neighbors I have now. Welcome it. | ||
Eastsidechris Member Username: Eastsidechris Post Number: 356 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for the differing perspectives...please keep them coming. One other thing that bothered me about this woman who talked of opening a group home is that she pooh-poohed our suggestion of getting a formal home inspection before attempting to buy the place. She said, "Oh, I was inside and it looked ok to me." That type of nonchalant attitude was a red flag for me, because it made me wonder if she'd move a group home into someplace like the home next door, would she be in it to help the people in the home, or to make money off of tax breaks, etc? And more important, would she be that apathetic in her running of the group home? I might also add that we've seen probably 200 people come through and look at the house since it went on the market in June. You can tell when the price has been lowered (it started at around 20K, then 16K, then 12K and now 4K), because there's a sudden influx of activity at the house. You get a good sense of who wants to buy it to live in it, and who is looking at it just to flip it/rent it and make a buck. First, the flippers will see us in the yard next door and not even bother to say hi. They don't want to know anything about the neighborhood or neighbors--it seems like they just want to flip the house, get any renters in it that they can, neighbors and neighborhood be damned (I can say that from experience with other renters on the block) Second, the flippers will stay there and look around for 5-10 minutes. The would-be dwellers take a look for two minutes, shake their heads and leave, telling us, "It could be a nice house, but that'll take a lot of work." Kathinozarks, I appreciate your optimism toward group homes, but I also have to side with Urbanfisherman and wonder how that would effect our property values and ability to sell the house down the road. Most people if you give them a choice, ESPECIALLY if they have kids, they're not going to buy next to a group home, no matter how great a picture you might try to paint for them about life next to a group home. Living next to someone is not the same thing as living in the same neighborhood. I should know: the neighbors who lost their house were the neighbors from Hell, and everyone who lived in the vicinity knows it (and have told me that it was too bad, but the neighborhood is better for them leaving), but I suspect there are people down the block who would say, "Well, I never had any problems with them." And I'm sure they didn't, but that doesn't erase how the family regarded the neighbors who lived around them. I called my homeowner's association president to find out about group home regulations and such. I'll definitely report back to the forum what I hear from him. | ||
Aoife Member Username: Aoife Post Number: 79 Registered: 04-2007 |
Not to be the negative one on the list but I have lived near a group home- it was two houses away, but around a corner so our backyards touched. It was not positive experience. I appreciated that they were trying to clean up and tried to be friendly, but these guys were creeps for the most part. They sat on their porch all day (drinking tea, I suppose) and would catcall every time I went past. Sometimes they would actually get off the porch and come leer and make suggestions from a closer vantage point, which was a bit disarming if you were walking by at night. Basically, it was a bunch of men hanging out on the porch all day. Or looking over our fence. Or through our windows. Anyway, I am sure some people have had positive experiences but lets try to be a little sympathetic towards Eastsidechris' feelings. It is easy to be optimistic wheen you are not the one who will be living next to a house of recovering transients, run by a seemingly indifferent and unprofessional owner. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 2620 Registered: 08-2007 |
It depends on who the group home is for. We don't know anything about that. As far as mental health group homes, the goal of any mental health program is socialization. If it isn't happening, then the community needs to work with the home management, and go further up including reporting to the state regulators if progress is not satisfactory. As far as market values, it seems as though the current situation makes that concern moot. Later on, when things improve, the presence of a group home will limit marketability to buyers who are willing to give it a try. As the glut of available homes clears and desirability of your neighborhood improves, that number could increase. The fears that group homes may have a higher resident turnover and risk of community incompatibility than normal families is real. The only problems we have ever had in any of our neighborhoods were with young men living with their families, not group home residents. We lived near a large residence for mental patients at one time, and some of the people would stop in to visit from time to time. Not knowing what to expect the first time or two makes things a bit challenging, but there were no problems at all, just people looking to be friendly. Fear of the unknown drives us all. As we get to know our neighbors, we no longer fear them. | ||
Brienne Member Username: Brienne Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2008 |
It's a shame that investors can't be more sympathetic to the neighborhood they're buying in. Especially next-door neighbors. I find it disgraceful that an outsider told you to "try Livonia". As a neighbor, you would be a valuable asset to her investment: watching after the activity in her house, etc. Not to mention, it's just inappropriate behavior to be so nasty to a stranger. Our society allows rudeness. What ever happened to politely interacting with people? | ||
Gene Member Username: Gene Post Number: 117 Registered: 10-2006 |
State zoning enabling act says they are a permitted use. At one time there was a distance and notification procedure. http://legislature.mi.gov/doc. aspx?mcl-125-3206 | ||
Detroitmaybe Member Username: Detroitmaybe Post Number: 201 Registered: 03-2008 |
I think with the current comps in your area at $4000, the market value of your home due to a group home moving in is indeed a moot point! If you do any type of appraisal today your house is going to be significantly undervalued rather they move in or not! In fact if they did move in, and they do some basic upgrades to the property it might even work to your advantage. As far as a group home is concerned, there is no zoning laws required. The State has certain requirements regarding the physical property though, it does have to meet certain codes. Also, as a real estate agent..if the woman that was interested in opening the home has prior experience it is not uncommon to do a basic walk through without a formal inspection. I don't think thats any indication that she might not be a responsible landlord. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 400 Registered: 10-2006 |
Sorry, I wouldn't want a group home next to me. An abandoned house can become a demolished house. Good luck removing a group home. | ||
Eastsidechris Member Username: Eastsidechris Post Number: 359 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gene: Thanks for the state of Michigan regulations. It was a helpful site to look at. Aoife & others: Thanks for the imput and kind words of support. If a group home does move in next door (I should add there is already one down the street, with renters on either side and directly across the street), I hope things go aa well as some of you suggest they might. One thing I should make clear: the actual sale prices (not asking) in our area are NOT in line with the asking price for this foreclosed house. Many, including my own, are between 100-150K, and most of the rest are probably between 60-100K. This is in East English Village, which is one of the nicer, mostly middle class, neighborhoods on the east side. Another thing I should make clear: the issue for us is not about living near recovering addicts, mentally challenged people, etc. The issue IS that we never intended to live in this house forever and if this would turn out to be a poorly-run group home or has residents who display similar behavioral issues like the ones that Aoife mentioned (especially with my wife coming home late at night because of her job), we would like to be able to sell our house for a decent price and not practically give it away because potential buyers wouldn't want to live next to a group home. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 458 Registered: 02-2005 |
Burn it down! | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 5491 Registered: 10-2003 |
your concerns are valid; there ARE many well run group homes, but there are also many poorly run group homes: this woman's behavior should be a red flag. Is there any way you and your wife could purchase the house next door and resell it?? | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 1109 Registered: 01-2005 |
Group homes in Detroit are usually run by profiteers. Many neglect their clients. How do you think all the panhandlers in wheelchairs get to the corners they work in rain and heat? Their group home managers drop them off. I would think it doomsday if a group home set up next to me in SW Detroit (and there is an empty foreclosed house next to me, so it is a distinct possibility). | ||
Southwestmap Member Username: Southwestmap Post Number: 1110 Registered: 01-2005 |
I have a neighbor that took down a house (slowly and from the inside) to protect himself from potential bad owners. The house was a $4000 special that was headed down. He took out major plumbing and made sure that the house would not be bought. If i had the capability and lived next door to such a place, I would do it. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 4206 Registered: 02-2007 |
not in my neighborhood? research will help...actually group homes that are regulated and supervised ..shouldn't even know they are there..home values increase with cost of square feet increases...depends on the residents... classic study: most people have concerns about their new neighbors, some have fear, some are just uninformed...but the end the most vocal opponents become good neighbors...most group homes becoem a safe place for people that are elderly in nieghborhoods...staff should be resource and a presence 24/7. here is how: a) a group home should spend time with neighbors as they develop the policies... b) the group home commits to keep an eye out for neighbors...and communication should flow two ways... c) that any concerns about home are brought to the attention of the programs manager...and that a response is forth coming d) any education about the type of disabilities be disseminated, without violated individuals rights e) neighbors open minds and hearts and group home be good neighbors... 52 million Americans have disability..we all will join that fraternity at one point in our lives...not all group homes are bad and yes there are very poorly run ones.. but people with disabilities are people first...they don't eat your cats, they may get disoriented and knock on your door by accident but generally knowing that some one is home next door makes me feel a little better in an emergency...have a BBQ and cook a hot dog with them..you might be surprised. do not let fear and prejudice deny you a great experience and the people who just happen to have a disability the experience of becoming a good neighbor... | ||
Kbaitinger Member Username: Kbaitinger Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2008 |
You should contact the City of Detroit Planning Commission staff. They can tell you the requirements for group homes, adult foster care... Their number is 313-224-6225. I believe the City inspects all group homes with 5 or less residents, while the State inspects all group homes of 6 or more residents. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6788 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just a suggestion, but would it be possible for you and your wife to come up with $4k and remove the house yourself? Use the lot as a community garden after? Other than that, a little side work as suggested by Southwestmap might be a decent alternative. | ||
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 623 Registered: 12-2006 |
If you don't have a neighborhood association, now would be a good time to start one. At least you'll get views from those whose environment will be affected. | ||
Foosie Member Username: Foosie Post Number: 60 Registered: 07-2008 |
NIMBY lol | ||
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow Post Number: 341 Registered: 07-2008 |
When I hear group home, I think of the homes with disabled kids/young adults, not grown men. The grown men type homes for offenders/addicts are called halfway houses as far as I know. I wonder if this person meant a home for disabled children? And if so, would that be an issue for you? I know people who work in group homes, and they run staff in shifts, so there would be a lot of irregular traffic with the people changing shifts, the vans loading and unloading, etc. It's like living by a business. However, if the home is not in good enough shape for a family, then she isn't likely to get a license for a group home there since they do have very critical inspections also. I would be concerned that she was going to be one of those that just collect the money from the state and don't care about the tenants. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1987 Registered: 04-2006 |
Typical NIMBY fears (not in my backyard). Zoning will allow this as we have a pretty liberal use of the term family. You would not believe how much this sort of stuff disrupts the planning process. In some cities folks don't want bike paths because they cause crime! The reality of this situation is that folks can ultimately do with property what they wish as long as it is not deemed a dangerous use. You might be able to fight it if you can show that this will have a major impact on your health, but proving that will be a stretch. I think you're freaking out over nothing. If your fears are realized, keep on the owners and on the police. Keep meticulus records of all problems associated directly with the property. The truth is that if someone bought the house and rented it out to a section 8 family you would have a lot less options or inspections of the property. It could actually be a blessing in disguise. "The issue IS that we never intended to live in this house forever and if this would turn out to be a poorly-run group home or has residents who display similar behavioral issues like the ones that Aoife mentioned (especially with my wife coming home late at night because of her job), we would like to be able to sell our house for a decent price and not practically give it away because potential buyers wouldn't want to live next to a group home." I hate to break this to you, but the only houses like that in the midwest these days are found on Fantasy Island! The sad reality is that we all have depressed housing values and that many folks are actually upside down in their mortgages right now. (Message edited by Detroitplanner on October 31, 2008) | ||
Cycledetroit Member Username: Cycledetroit Post Number: 35 Registered: 09-2008 |
My father is a substance abuse counselor. I have grown up my whole life around halfway houses. I can tell you this, It REALLY DEPENDS ON THE OWNER. I have seen some super shady group homes, and I have seen some nice ones. My dad runs one in Hamtramck and he runs a tight ship. Everyone in the house must hold a job, not use any drugs, help out around the house and yard, ect. The house is by far one of the nicest on the block. Not all owners are like this, and that is who you have to be aware of. Also to say that its for profit,is not always true. My dad makes very little money off of the group home, after paying for all the utilities, and he usually helps out with groceries he isn't making much a month. He usually has only 2-5 men in the house at a time. | ||
Nuclearxwinter Member Username: Nuclearxwinter Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2005 |
I lived at a residence that was in between TWO group homes and I had a very pleasant living experience in that house. If anything, the people living in those two houses looked after me and the house while no one was around and definitely were good neighbors to have. They were all incredibly friendly, too. I don't think that you should really assume so many negative things, because having people next door in a group home is a million times better than having a vacant house where kids can go in and do who knows what and thieves can steal from it and trash it. I would welcome the idea! | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 450 Registered: 08-2008 |
I've been associated with group homes for years. I have a family member who has lived in one - now living independently. I've delivered to group homes from food banks, volunteered at them and observed them. I've yet to see one that is really bad. Some have been fairly barren and poor, but that's more of a comment on our society and it's priorities. The organizations that I've known and been associated with have been quite open, informative and cooperative in planning homes, approaching prospective neighbors and establishing the homes in the neighborhood. I think you might want to talk to the prospective group home operators. Check them out, research them and gather all of the information about them you can before you decide for or against them. If they should come into your neighborhood, communicate with them as much as possible, just as you would with any other neighbors. You might find them to be a good addition to your 'hood. | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 672 Registered: 08-2007 |
If I had 4grand to throw around I,d buy it for my "kids".Give them a lawnmower, snow shovel and say"KEEP IT UP OR YOUR OUT".Which is gonna happen soon enuff. |
