 
Zrx_doug
Member
Username: Zrx_doug
Post Number: 721
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 2:29 pm: |    |
You guys are cracking me up..I live on the border of Detroit/Redford..
Do you actually believe that if I step across Five Points, it's like another freakin' planet or something?
The houses look the same on both sides of the street, the people look the same, the kids play with each other without without thought of whether they're "cool Detroit residents" or "stuck-up suburbanites."
I was born in Detroit, spent most of my childhood in Farmington Township/Farmington Hills, and moved back to the city as an adult..both places had houses, streets, neighbors, stores..they were places to live with only marginal differences..there is absolutely ZERO difference between the burbs and any of the non-downtown neighborhoods other than geographic location and this idiotic attitude which we're discussing.
This whole concept of the suburbs/city somehow being "different" from one another is retarded.
The vast majority of what we call "Detroit" WAS "the suburbs" prior to being annexed by the city.
The only real difference I see is population density..the 'burbs have got more people per square mile than the city does, which means they've also got more tax dollars per square mile.
Detroit is like a huge old apartment building with with two hundred apartments and only six tenants who can't afford to keep the place up..
Rather than despising our neighbors for their perceived wealth and "snobbery," we should be inviting 'em in with the hopes that they'll stay and help with the upkeep.
Sorry if I rambled too much..this is a topic that never fails to get my back up. |
Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement
Post Number: 546
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 3:06 pm: | |
Regionalism is bullshit unless people practice it. In other words, if all of Metro Detroit is one region then people should get just as offended when ANY part of the area is attacked. i.e.: If a Detroiter hears someone bad mouthing Farmington Hills they should take that as an attack of the whole region, and if someone who lives in Macomb Township hears someone talking down on Detroit they should take that as an attack of the whole region. We all know that doesn't happen. Usually people only get offended when their little community gets bad mouthed, yet they claim we are all one.
Let me give you an example, the Pistons are a team. If you talk bad about Chauncey Billups then Tayshawn and Rip will step in and defend him. If Stuckey can stand by and allow Kobe to rip Rasheed a new asshole and think nothing of it then Stuckey doesn't see the Pistons as a team. If you're only insulted when your community is insulted then you don't see us as one. Regionalism needs to be practiced all the time, not just when convenient!
Edited for better example.
(Message edited by Crumbled_pavement on September 21, 2008) |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 499
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 3:24 pm: | |
Crumbled_Pavement,
exactly. Without a common bond and common goals, regionalism does not work. That pendulum swings both ways. Sooner or later we will all realize that we are on the same team, but for now, there a too many 'I''s out there that don't know how team work is actually supposed to work. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 12318
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 4:09 pm: | |
quote:the 'burbs have got more people per square mile than the city does
That is incacurrate. Surprisingly Detroit is more dense than just about every suburb. I believe that the only one with a higher population density os RO township. |
Tayshaun22
Member
Username: Tayshaun22
Post Number: 445
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 4:24 pm: | |
Lincoln Park |
Bthom73
Member
Username: Bthom73
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 4:29 pm: | |
For better or for worse, this thread sort of hit a nerve... So much so that I had to register and post.
I've been on both sides of the fence. I grew up in the "burbs" and now live downtown (been downtown now for 13 years in the WSU/midtown area).
I should also mention that I don't drive due to various circumstances years ago (some of which are self challenged). I'm still able to fulfill all of my needs though without any issue at all via a combination of local markets (walking distance) and UPS/FedEx, so the experiment was a success. It's actually widened my social exposure and food tastes quite a bit given that many of the neighbors in the area here are foreign students. Living downtown has actually been one of the most positive things that have ever happened to me as far as cultural exposure goes. My parents don't really understand, and I don't really expect them to. They grew up in a different world where it wasn't necessary to talk to homeless folks sleeping on your front porch (seriously, DPD showed up last night because I and the homeless gentleman couldn't resolve the situation ourselves).
Anyway, I feel that ErikD's comments above are on track. It all comes down to respect. I'm more than happy to greet anyone into the area that has a respectable attitude (doesn't talk about downtown like it's a hopeless cause and/or the burbs are where civilized people live)... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 12319
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 4:29 pm: | |
Correct but they are close. Per the 2000 census data LP is at 6510 per square mile which would equate to a Detroit population of about 905K.
But the truth is that there are few places that have the density of Detroit in SE Michigan. Lincoln Park and RO Township are the exceptions, not the rule. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 990
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 4:36 pm: | |
Misunderstanding and fear breeds hate and ignorance.Ive heard many a broad generalization about the motor city from myriad suburbanites and rural-small town folk who have rarely (if ever) so much as set foot in the city. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1894
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 6:34 pm: | |
quote:my cousin may offer me his house in Livonia for free for 2 years, while he is living in Germany, Detroit is such a part of me that I would rather pay inflated rent in the city and be broke.
So you'd rather spend maybe $700 a month, you'd rather NOT help your cousin out by watching his place ... hmmm.
FYI, $700 a month x 24 months = $16,800
$16,800 invested and compunded at 4% would give you $18,184 over two years.
So, pimp your cousin. Burn through $18 grand all to experience the militant pride in having poor city services and high tax rates.
I agree, UrbanOutdoors, you need to stay where you're at. Really, stay there. Don't move. Don't demand better, just blame Birmingdale Pointers for not understanding the decerning distinction between Warrendale and Brightmoore. |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 500
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 7:33 pm: | |
Gnome,
I think what UrbanOutdoors is doing goes a long ways towards someone that is voting with their pocketbook. We talk about consumer choices and our ability to persuade reform by buying the things we are willing to pay for.
The tradeoff by living in Livonia may end up costing him more than $18k considering he/she would pay about $350 per month in gas to commute everyday. Not too mention the cost to our longterm investments in our children.
I am curious at who should be demanding what. |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 501
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 7:50 pm: | |
By the way, I reside in an inner ring suburb, my great granparents / grandparents / parents helped build them. I'm fairly proud of them.
I'm also proud of Detroit, and i understand it's importance to the region. I simply hope the region can come to understand that as well.
I've got nothing against alot of suburban communities. Some communties / areas...whatever...i don't think should exist.
Tough love. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3476
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 7:56 pm: | |
One thing I notice about metro Detroit is that people throw around living in the suburbs as a sort of status symbol. At one time most American metropolitan areas were like this, but that fad has since fizzled in most areas.
In other cities, especially on the East Coast, people live in the suburbs because they can't afford to live in the central city. |
Tk65
Member
Username: Tk65
Post Number: 95
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 9:59 pm: | |
Detroit will never thrive because the school system is an abortion. Thats as basic as you can make it.
I live in Redford. From what Ive seen around here there are a lot of black people leaving Detroit for Redford, Livonia, Dearborn Heights etc. Why are they leaving? Maybe because the schools suck, the city services are non-existant, the high level of crime, high insurance rates, bad infrastructure, corrupt city leaders etc. These are factors that are non disputable.
Detroit, in theory, is a wonderful place. In reality its a dead town that has few good qualities. |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 502
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 10:50 pm: | |
School systems are what the citizens make of them. Citizens will only invest in their school systems if there is a reason to. Complete lack of investment in the city is not much of an incentive to care about the future. Wouldn't you agree? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3480
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 10:58 pm: | |
quote:Detroit will never thrive because the school system is an abortion. Thats as basic as you can make it.
Name one big city in America with a good school system. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 246
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 11:03 pm: | |
How about we stop pretending Detroit offers the "big city" elements that allow other cities to thrive instead of going for the "but poor educational systems happen everywhere!" route?
Detroit, as much as we all love it, is not in the same class as other big cities that are still thriving. Thus, Tk65's point (i.e., the rest of his/her post) still stands about problems in the city causing long-term residents who've stuck it through all these years to still move out today.
(Message edited by GreatLakes on September 21, 2008) |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 2620
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 11:50 pm: | |
Is it really a city/suburb conflict were talking here or is it a black/white conflict? Think about it. What is so unique about Detroit and its suburbs that cause these constant riffs here that you see virtually no where else in the country? In my opinion it has everything to do with the racial divide between city/suburb and the history behind it. Sure it’s softened over time but its still there lying beneath the surface and contributing to this rift between city residents and those from the suburbs. Even if you’re not a white suburbanite or a black city resident you are all products of your environment, and in your environment you are taught to despise the “others” for reasons that aren’t even relevant today even if you aren’t aware of it. That’s the real reason why there is no one Detroit because we still don’t see ourselves as one people. The sooner we fix that the better. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 248
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 11:53 pm: | |
No, there's definitely a city/suburb divide as well. While there are racial overtones between some communities, it's also a class divide. I've seen black Detroiters who feel blacks in Southfield "think they're better than us." |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 2623
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 12:08 am: | |
Sure its also class but here it’s a little bit different. Where did they get that attitude from? I mean were talking about Southfield not Beverly Hills, California where there would be an obvious class difference. |
Tk65
Member
Username: Tk65
Post Number: 96
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 9:13 am: | |
People feel comfortable around others that are like them. Ethnic backgrounds specifically. So why are blacks moving from a city that is predominately black? |
Youngprofessionaldetroiter
Member
Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter
Post Number: 373
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 9:44 am: | |
quote:People feel comfortable around others that are like them. Ethnic backgrounds specifically.
I think that might've changed or is changing over time. Socio-economic class seems to be a more determinant factor these days as the ethnic barriers come down more and more. |
Mortalman
Member
Username: Mortalman
Post Number: 290
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:06 am: | |
You are right on, Tk65! It's the reason cross district bussing never worked. It never worked because it wasn’t just white people that wanted their kids to go to school with white kids but black people wanted their kids to go to school with black kids. Furthermore, what’s wrong with that! |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 10369
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:11 am: | |
Hate the burbs and won't go there unless I am forced to do so. Nothing more than a tax dollar vacuum in my books.
But the same idiots who decry the high tax rates of our governments are also the ones who continually move to the far outreaches of the 'burbs every 3-5 years. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 1821
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:35 am: | |
Is Highland Park Okay? How about Dearborn and Hamtramck? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8713
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
There's nothing wrong with voting with your wallet. Just be aware that trashing the burbs to everyone you meet, and giving them the impression that's how Detroiters think of them, will affect how they vote with THEIR wallets.
Anti-any part of this relatively small area called metro Detroit is pretty ignorant in my opinion. |
Detroitbred
Member
Username: Detroitbred
Post Number: 118
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 10:40 am: | |
Cross district bussing also meant people's kids had to spend longer hours being bussed out of their own neighborhoods to someone elses. Of'course you would prefer your children to be in their own area, possibly withing walking distance, able to come home for lunch, etc. |
Docterry
Member
Username: Docterry
Post Number: 74
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 11:00 am: | |
In reference to the bussing - beyond the very good points made by Detroitbred - there is the issue of choice. Many families - myself included - now choose to insure that their kids *do* go some distance from the neighborhood school. The difference is that it is our *choice*, not something dictated by someone else. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 249
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
Uh-huh, choice. So if people prefer that their kids not see other races at school, and nothing's wrong with that, what's so bad about wanting to not see other races at work, in daily life like at the store, or when dealing with city institutions?
For all this talk about city vs suburb, it seems some of you really do wish you could go back to those 1942 photos, when Detroit's neighborhoods were basically what the suburbs are now: nice and clean but segregated. Actually, they were even more segregated than the suburbs now. For all this talk about the "white" suburbs, there is more diversity outside of the city than in it. |
Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath
Post Number: 823
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 11:50 am: | |
I don't buy the racist black/white element to the city/suburb issue as a root cause. It always gets brought up, but is not that simple, and may have been true in 1967, but that is a long time ago. Racism has been used as a cheap crutch by politicians (on both sides) to mask their totally incompetent reasons for not providing a basic quality of services and amenities the citizens of the city of Detroit deserve that are available elsewhere, and for lower cost, and for political leaders in the suburbs not integrating the region better. Divide and conquer, always works until people wise up. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8715
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 11:50 am: | |
quote:So if people prefer that their kids not see other races at school, and nothing's wrong with that
He wants his kids to go to a safe school that provides a decent education. Bring up racism if you choose, but if those schools are outside of the neighborhood, so be it. You don't gamble with your kids. You don't try to make social statements with your kids. You do what you believe is best for them. |
Docterry
Member
Username: Docterry
Post Number: 75
Registered: 08-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 12:08 pm: | |
Thanks, JL - GtLakes seems to have deliberately chosen to take my comments out of context and made some leaps/assumptions. For the record - we live in the city and are part of a school located in the city. Other parents choose schools outside the city, but I've never heard it as being due to anything but seeking the best education for that particular child. Yours is exactly the kind of divisive rhetoric we don't need. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 250
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:04 pm: | |
My comment is regarding Mortalman's "It's the reason cross district bussing never worked. It never worked because it wasn’t just white people that wanted their kids to go to school with white kids but black people wanted their kids to go to school with black kids. Furthermore, what’s wrong with that!"
Detroitbred's comment then is "Cross district bussing also meant...", that is, in addition to having your kids go to school with kids of other background, there's the point about distance.
Then, your follow up comment about choice and not being dictated by someone else (a common argument against affirmative action, integration, and how "diversity is forced on people" by "someone else"). While you may not have meant it that way, since neither of you two countered Mortalman's comment, your additional two posts appeared as a follow up to the original "divisive" line of thought, and so I wrote my counterargument. If that's not what you meant, fine, but don't act like your comment as written couldn't have been taken another way.
(Message edited by GreatLakes on September 22, 2008) |
Detroitbred
Member
Username: Detroitbred
Post Number: 119
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:04 pm: | |
I grew up in Detroit, and if Detroit was anywhere near what it was like back then, I would, in all likelihood, still be there. After a break in and my elderly neighbors robbed at gunpoint in there home, we left. ( That was Rosedale Park ). We have lived in Livonia for quite a few years now, not because it is "white" as some might like to think, but because it was ( is ) a safe place to raise a family, good schools, good city services for my tax dollars, etc. That is not to say it isn't without it's problems, no city is perfect. Not everything is based on race / racism. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8717
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:12 pm: | |
Greatlakes, obviously confusion there. I misunderstood your post, and who it was meant for. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 251
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:28 pm: | |
For the record, I agree 100% about not making social statements with your kids, only doing what you believe is best for them. Now, Docterry has made it clear that his point was that he and other parents are doing that, so obviously the rest of my original comment only applies to those who share that other line of thought. I guess it wouldn't be DetroitYes! without some misunderstanding.
And regarding it not being all about race, of course not. In fact, just a few posts earlier in this very thread, you'll see my comment to Mayor_sekou that I saw it more as a class divide now with the example of Southfield (which, while not the wealthiest suburb, is still wealthier than Detroit), which is another reason I found the comment to paint me as a divisive race baiter confusing to say the least.
(Message edited by GreatLakes on September 22, 2008) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7302
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:32 pm: | |
quote:Anti-any part of this relatively small area called metro Detroit is pretty ignorant in my opinion.
Right you are Johnlodge!
I think of anti-suburb folks as being in the same boat as those suburbanites who boastfully claim "I haven't been downtown in 30 years".
Just total ignorance, if you ask me.
Ben Franklin's words of wisdom come to mind... "either we all hang together, or we will all hang separately".
Get over your anti this and anti that sentiments folks. It's what's put us in this predicament in the first place. |
Detroitbred
Member
Username: Detroitbred
Post Number: 120
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:43 pm: | |
Gistok, You and Ben Franklin are right indeed! We are in this together if things are to improve.
All the "anti-ism" is counter productive to what needs to be accomplished, and a waste of time and energy, which should be put to better use. |
Detroitbred
Member
Username: Detroitbred
Post Number: 121
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 1:45 pm: | |
Gistok, You and Ben Franklin are right indeed! We are in this together if things are to improve.
All the "anti-ism" is counter productive to what needs to be accomplished, and a waste of time and energy, which should be put to better use. |
Tk65
Member
Username: Tk65
Post Number: 98
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 22, 2008 - 9:36 pm: | |
GM made great cars in the 40s and 50s. The 60s were good too, but the japanese started to make cars also. Cars that were cookie cutter and bland but got the job done and never broke down. In the 70s people began to see that GM cars wernt worth the hassle and started buying the Jap cars in mass. Pretty soon GMs customer base was all but gone, except for the die hards that looked past their faults to see what once was and what still could be. Those buyers that left GM are never coming back however, no matter how much GM says they have changed.
Now substitute GM and Japanese with Detroit and Suburbs. |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 221
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2008 - 5:23 pm: | |
TK65 stated
“I live in Redford. From what Ive seen around here there are a lot of black people leaving Detroit for Redford, Livonia, Dearborn Heights etc. Why are they leaving? Maybe because the schools suck, the city services are non-existant, the high level of crime, high insurance rates, bad infrastructure, corrupt city leaders etc. These are factors that are non disputable.
Detroit, in theory, is a wonderful place. In reality its a dead town that has few good qualities.”
These are the type of comments that breed cooperation and regionalism.
NO
We are separate and we are not one.
The city of Detroit is the place to flee from, the place to avoid,
And maybe the city of Detroit is the way it is, because of people like you and all those white folks, and now all of these black people who left who didn’t have the backbone to solve of the problems of the city. Has anyone outside of Palmer Woods and Indian Village stood up against the criminals that have driven people away? It’s so easy to leave than to fix the problems. But plenty of neighborhoods in other older cities have rebounded. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 254
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 5:23 pm: | |
^ I believe this supposed "lacking backbone" issue is from where the true anti-suburb resentment comes. However, does it really have that much merit? Some people did choose to leave early, but others stuck it through for decades until something finally passed the tipping point for them. Just a few posts earlier, we seemed to agree that you "don't gamble with your kids. You don't try to make social statements with your kids. You do what you believe is best for them."
I feel this "not having enough backbone" sentiment is really just more of an extension of the "blame the victim" response common here with regards to crime and victims not being street smart or tough enough to live in a "real" city. Just look at the wording above: "So what? Did YOU do anything to stand up to criminals? No, you just left. That's why Detroit is the way it is. It's your fault."
(Message edited by GreatLakes on September 24, 2008) |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 1313
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 5:29 pm: | |
Although one should learn from the past, you also need to let it go to move on.
What is today will not be what is tomorrow; what is tomorrow will not be what is five years from now.
If you had told me the progress the city of Detroit would make in the 11 years I've lived or worked there, I'd think you're nuts. I've seen ugly, good, and awesome.
That's because cities are living beings; as they are comprised of people.
So to say any city is "one thing" is a little short-sighted. For instance, I'm seeing lots of funky creative/film types move into Madison Heights because it's close to Royal Oak but less expensive. Or the fact I've seen more Obama signs in Grosse Pointe than I've ever remembered any candidate, and not always where you'd expect. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3619
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 5:31 pm: | |
Masterblaster says it best.  |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 256
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 5:44 pm: | |
In one ear (or is that the eye) and out the other. |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 2639
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - 5:45 pm: | |
quote:And maybe the city of Detroit is the way it is, because of people like you and all those white folks, and now all of these black people who left who didn’t have the backbone to solve of the problems of the city.
Is it really the job of the citizen to try and solve the issues of the city? It’s their job to elect people to solve these problems but other than that they have no obligation to fix anything outside of their personal lives or live here for that matter. Because you decide to live in the city does not mean that you have to enlist in the army to solve the problems of the city. Who really wants all that responsibility along with dealing with the everyday issues of life? |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 223
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 12:42 am: | |
Yes, Greatlakes, much of the blame for the deplorable conditions of the neighborhoods of the city of Detroit can be put squarely on the past residents of the city of Detroit.
Because, what if I just decided to move out of Detroit and into Madison Heights, because I am tired of the crime and high taxes. Then, after I've moved, couldn't I say,
"Well those people down there need to fix their city, they need to do this and that and this"
Well, was I not a city resident? Could I not have done those things that I am stating that "Detroiters" need to do to make their city livable? Was I not responsible for the conditions of the city?
To Mayor Sekou
It did not take an army to bring back the urban neighborhoods in New York, Chicago, Philly, Boston, DC, St. Louis, etc. Is that what we need to do in Detroit?
WHAT DID THEY DO IN THOSE CITIES THAT WE AREN'T DOING HERE? SOMEBODY TELL ME!
Digitalvision, you seem to be pretty wise - Why is Detroit so easy to abandon and discard, while all of those other aforementioned cities, people are flocking to? Is it the economy? |
English
Member
Username: English
Post Number: 827
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 12:51 am: | |
Two words:
Critical. Mass.
You need a critical mass of citizens ready to change. From the inside and the outside of the city. From all races, faiths, backgrounds, orientations.
During my tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist moments, I always say the fate of SE Michigan is because we were one of the focal points of the US labor movement -- and you know the capitalists fear socialism! For a while, we worked. That's why we had to go down in flames.
And then I take off the tin foil hat, and pick up a Richard Florida book. |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 1319
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2008 - 1:17 am: | |
Detroit's decline and current state is not due to one factor, in fact, there's been doctoral thesis, books, and more all trying to analyze it and they're all half-right, and all by people smarter than me.
The economy is HUGE, and not just today. People with short memories (or who aren't history buffs) forget that the automotive industry, like all industries, is cyclical. We've seen massive layoffs before, and we'll see'em again. The fatal economic flaw of Detroit was it's hyper-reliance on one industry. Diversity in industry/employment is one of the economic advantages those "resurging" cities have (and nobody should take this that automotive should be less, it's more of an "and also on top of" point). In some ways, with the auto companies moving their plants to the suburbs, they were part of the spark that started the exodus, because labor was cheaper out there and so was land.
We have a racial problem in this country. There's been multiple posts on this, but if you look at the resurgent cities people commonly mention, none of them are majority black. They're majority white or plurality including whites, asians, and/or hispanics with blacks being a minority. Do not construe this as I think blacks are the problem. However, if I had a dollar for every rich white guy who told me they don't want to invest in an area controlled by "them," I'd have enough to build twenty city blocks of quality urban housing and stick our friend Gannon on the city farm he so badly desires. I would like to think it's about "diversity" but more informal research has shown me that it's nothing about diversity and all about how many black people have power. This is going to subside over the next 20 years, thank God (and already has a bit).
Then, we have a generational disconnect. There are a million people (big hairy generalized number) in this region who have no interaction with the core city except what they see on the news. Even in the downtimes of New York and Chicago, it was still a destination. Detroit lost that "destination" for quite a while. I run into people all the time who've never even been to even a Tiger game. And when you don't know about something, many times the natural human reaction is to fear it. The boogieman of Detroit gets bigger because without information (only lately has Detroit been getting the word out there, this take a long time to reverse) rumour and speculation fill the vacuum... and so the "problems" are many times "gossip."
So there's my late-night treatise. Sorry to bore you all. Progress is being made and I am optimistic. |
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