  Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4927 Registered: 06-2004 |
American obliviousness at its peak http://machinist.salon.com/blo g/2008/08/23/multi_fuel/ | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 251 Registered: 02-2006 |
My 2000 Sonoma can burn 85% ethanol. Research the history of corn and the other possible sources of ethanol production. By a wide margin American branded cars & trucks are more likely to be able to burn ethanol. If you understand how "engineered" some crops are, the hype about ethanol causing starvation is complete baloney. Think for a minute, where exactly did oil come from to begin with? In the long run oil's source was biological. The real "obliviousness" is that we are at the start of a political season and what are we talking about? Where the guys running live. In the meantime other nations are laughing at us while we commit economic gluttony and adultery. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4928 Registered: 06-2004 |
Sorry, I meant the obliviousness of the blogger. He's totally unaware that E85 flex fuel vehicles started rolling out from the automakers years ago. | ||
Renfirst Member Username: Renfirst Post Number: 197 Registered: 12-2006 |
People need to push for cellulosic ethanol, biofuel produced from wood, grasses, or the non-edible parts of plants. I think you need to reconsider the opinion that ethanol causes starvation is baloney... when a farmer decides to sell his crop to ethanol producers instead, it drives up the price of corn... while our politicians turn a blind eye in hope that the farming industry gives them support in November, the rest of the world is facing a major epidemic as many can not afford the once cheap crop... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4932 Registered: 06-2004 |
The rise in food costs has been due to the rise is oil prices, not due to ethanol production. The actual cost of food once all fuel costs are deducted is extremely low e.g. there's about 20 cents of corn in a box of Corn Flakes, the rest of the cost is fuel and packaging. | ||
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617 Post Number: 266 Registered: 03-2008 |
Well, it's a combination of things. Corn prices have gone up because of ethanol. Other food prices have gone up because farmers have quit growing other crops because corn is so much more profitable. Then everything is going up because of fuel and corporate greed. I have a flex fuel vehicle and will not run the flex fuel any more. Down here there is only about 15 cents a gallon difference. But when using ethanol I get about 18-20mpg. When using regular gas I get 26-28mpg. Food for fuel does not make a lot of sense with there are other options to use. Down here we have a vine that grows out of control called kudzu. They have perfected making ethanol even out of kudzu. My suspicion is this corn for ethanol requirement (that goes up each year) is Republicans trying to buy votes in the midwest farm states. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1139 Registered: 12-2007 |
You don't even need to waste the corn in ethanol production, and most of the time the biofuel plants sell the remaining corn to farmers and feed stocks to feed to cows who can't process the ALCOHOL that is removed from the corn during production. The corn used for ethanol production is RARELY corn intended for human consumption. Hell...more corn goes to feeding livestock than consumers anyways. | ||
Jerrytimes Member Username: Jerrytimes Post Number: 150 Registered: 04-2007 |
I'm sorry for saying this but E-85 is a horrible alternative fuel. It costs more to use and I personally don't feel that I should have to spend more to save the environment. The corn that is being wasted on E-85 should be feeding livestock and the poor and homeless, not used in my car. I bought an 08 Chevy Impala (love the car!) and was excited that it was a flex-fuel vehicle until I read up on it. | ||
Thoswolfe Member Username: Thoswolfe Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2007 |
In the Midwest ethanol plants were being built in almost every town, usually a co-op venture that locals invested (with good intentions) in. THEN these plants could not find enough corn to make the ethanol. They were importing corn from other countries! Supply and demand, that's why the price of corn went so high last couple years. Farmers benefitted of course and will argue that corn based ethanol is a green solution etc etc etc.. and use as ethanol did not cause high grain prices. Ahem, there was record yields AND prices last year. With record yields, there still was not enough corn available. And BTW it is not 'eco friendly' to plant just corn year after year, the soil loses nutrients. Lesson example- dust bowl years in the midwest. Many ethanol plants have been closed or downsized, new ventures cancelled. They still have a hard time producing a gallon of ethanol to sell for less than the $4 for gasoline. Obviously ethanol is 'greener' than gasoline. But to produce any ethanol or methanol also requires a great deal of water, no matter what product is fermented. Diesel may be the most promising if fuel powered engines must be used. Technology has improved by leaps and bounds the last few years. The engines are still more powerful(thus better fuel economy), and now are quieter and the emissions have been cleaned up also. Diesel fuel (bio-diesel)can also be refined from any vegetation with oils, no distilling required. And a tank of diesel fuel is less volatile than a tank of gas, ethanol, hydrogen, propane, even battery packs. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4934 Registered: 06-2004 |
Corn isn't wasted to make ethanol. The mash that results from the process is better cattle feed than the original corn. Around here ethanol runs about 30 cents per gallon less when gas tops $3.50 Diesel is no solution. It's still oil based. Even bio-diesels are still 80% oil based. This is one of the fundamental questions people need to decide - which is more important: cheap fuel or continued oil dependency and all it entails? (Message edited by lilpup on August 23, 2008) | ||
Detroitrockcity Member Username: Detroitrockcity Post Number: 11 Registered: 07-2008 |
who gives a shit if 100% of corn goes for ethanol, it's F'ing corn. People care that much about a vegetable you can't even digest anyways. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1837 Registered: 04-2006 |
There are not enough E85 pumps to have any serious competition needed to keep prices down. Therefore, it makes better economic sense to drive gasoline powered vehicles. The difference in BTU's really impacts E85's economy when compared to gasoline. Battery powered vehicles have the same problem, the infrastructure is not there (for example, many would need charge the car while at work to make it back home.) E85's main focus is on the reduction of particulate matter (pollution). | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 252 Registered: 02-2006 |
Around town E85 is as much as 75 cents less a gallon. I lose 2 to 3 mpg when running E85. Ethanol will not be a corn fuel exclusively. It will eventually be brewed via bio waste along with corn. There has been a great deal of mis information spread attacking ethanol. It may not be perfect but it is an alternative. At this time Brazil has completed building the structure to run their vehicles on 100% ethanol. For anybody that strongly doubts the potential of an ethanol structure, consider what the current alternative is and in who's interest it is to maintain it that way. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1841 Registered: 04-2006 |
I'm no chemist, but I've heard that you can improve the btu's by using cane or beet sugar instead of corn. Can anyone verify this? If so, Michigan stands to be a big gainer in this sort of technology as the land is already well suited for beet sugar. Just drive around the saginaw valley and look at all the sugar beets! |
