Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Which comes first, the job or the lifestyle? « Previous Next »
Archive through August 19, 2008Pffft30 08-19-08  11:44 am
  ClosedNew threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.        

Top of pageBottom of page

Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3523
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, Pffft, Michigan winter sucks. Besides the cold, you have 120 continuous days of heavy cloud cover. The freeze and thaw and salt on the roads screw up your car, besides keeping it dirty 78 days out of 80. There might be one or two days after a fresh snowfall when the sun peeks out briefly that turn it into a brief Winter Wonderland, but those moments are fleeting.

That's why I moved to southern Nevada in '84. There, I can watch the Super Bowl on my patio.
Top of pageBottom of page

Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1672
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's all a matter of taste. There is about a month of weather in our winter that I'd rather spend elsewhere, but Las Vegas in the summer? Nah, too hot and dry.
And I was there in January expecting sun and warmth, only to find cloud cover and coolness, and the pools were closed!
Top of pageBottom of page

Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 3055
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some folks say Michigan winters suck. I think it's full of baloney. I would rather live in a state with beautiful four seasons with few natural disasters (let's be honest, tornadoes are not that common in northern and southeastern Michigan) than live in the extreme hot desert or hurricane-stricken deep southern states. Michigan residents are extremely lucky.
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 673
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back to the original thread, I think Focusonthed's take is what's true for most people. You'll take a job over location but if a job opens up in location where you want to be, you'll bolt, even for lower pay. I also agree that if you're under 30 and you want a suburban lifestyle and some people do, there's plenty of places in SE Michigan that will offer you that. If you're under 30 and want an urban lifestyle, you choices are pretty limited. You can go the Detroit route but I think that's more authentic than many people want. For those looking for something a little more refined, Royal Oak or Ferndale might cut it if you've never been to a Chicago or Portland or San Francisco. But if you've traveled at all, SE Michigan's "urban" areas are going to look pretty lame compared to lots of other places around the country. We need jobs but we also need "place". We're never going to have a monopoly on any job market, especially now, and if we expect to keep talented people beyond entry-level positions, we need to have a better urban experience to offer them or they'll take their skills and talents to cities that do.

(Message edited by Novine on August 19, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Billpdx
Member
Username: Billpdx

Post Number: 76
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I moved out to Portland after graduating from college because I wanted to. I moved back to Michigan 12 years later because I wanted to.

The jobs worked themselves out.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detmsp
Member
Username: Detmsp

Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you think michigan winters are a problem look at minneapolis. that city is WAY WAY WAY COLDER. yet it does very well
Top of pageBottom of page

Pam
Member
Username: Pam

Post Number: 4443
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Besides the cold, you have 120 continuous days of heavy cloud cover...There might be one or two days after a fresh snowfall when the sun peeks out briefly that turn it into a brief Winter Wonderland, but those moments are fleeting.



Sorry, Ray that is not true. I know we have more sunny days than that per winter. I think cities like Seattle have more cloudy winter days than we do.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lowell
Moderator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 4955
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lifestyle first, always first. Regardless what some might argue, it ain't all about the money.

Do what you enjoy and you will work all your life and have fun. Do what you hate and you will suffer, suffocate and die.

Michigan winters? My saying is that if it weren't for winters, I wouldn't get anything done. Too many fun things and temptations in the D to do, even in winter, but cold weather slows things down for a while.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores

Post Number: 304
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^That's how it goes here. Like right now, at this time of season, damn, everyone is being stretched to their limits. Winter comes (and really, it doesn't get COLD until January/February) and it's nice to have the weather keeping you from trying to do all the things that summer entices. I stay in Michigan for the summers, nothing else like them in the world.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3425
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Besides the cold (which only bothers you if you're outside for an extended period), the only thing that bothers me are wet winter storms.

Just like the supposedly winter storm this past New Years. In Detroit (despite a winter storm warning for 8-12", it rained all evening, then we got 2" per hour rates for 1 hour, then entered a dry slot for the rest of night, with a grand total of 2"! Yet, places in Northern Oakland & Washtenaw counties got all the snow with 12- 16". :-(
Top of pageBottom of page

Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1992
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chicago winters suuuuuck. I have coworkers in Denver who ask why we put up with them. Coworkers in New York ask the same questions, but really New Yorkers have pretty similar weather, they just like to think the Midwest is so much colder.

I always say that we put up with the winters in order to appreciate the summers.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How could you not love Winter? The snow is the most beautiful thing after the Autumn leafs changing colors.

Plus, We have the Winter Blast now.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 1543
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So...

If it were a mix of the two, then why are they picking those jobs? Why are they picking those places? We have some reasons, places, and companies. What do you all think are some others?
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 954
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 5:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detmsp brings up an interesting thought. Minneapolis has similar or worse winter weather, sits smack dab in the middle of the "heartland" to the north and yet, it seems to thrive better than Detroit? I have been to Minn(12 years ago) and I loved their urban offerings. I think THAT is the difference and I stated it already. If Detroit offered a better Urban experience, I would happily stay... and I think many young people would, too. Weather withstanding.

SO, Lowell is right. Lifestyle first... the jobs generally work themselves out.

p.s. Minn also has MUCH more sunshine in the winter than Detroit.....
Top of pageBottom of page

Pam
Member
Username: Pam

Post Number: 4444
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Detmsp brings up an interesting thought. Minneapolis has similar or worse winter weather, sits smack dab in the middle of the "heartland" to the north and yet, it seems to thrive better than Detroit? I have been to Minn(12 years ago) and I loved their urban offerings. I think THAT is the difference and I stated it already. If Detroit offered a better Urban experience, I would happily stay... and I think many young people would, too. Weather withstanding.

SO, Lowell is right. Lifestyle first... the jobs generally work themselves out.



Minneapolis has a healthier, more diversified economy. People didn't have a problem moving to Detroit when our economy was booming. The weather is a non-issue.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 956
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 7:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now I am sorry I ever brought up my own personal preference about the weather... WEATHER IS MY OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCE! A minimal amount of people agree with me. Get off it! it is not my point, here, except for me personally.

My point is and has been: Jobs or no jobs, Detroit offers great suburban lifestyle, but does NOT offer an appropriate, mainstream Urban Experience, which appeals to most of people in the nation/world. Fix that and Detroit will attract jobs and young and old talent. Basically, Detroit is lacking the LIFESTYLE most people are seeking. If we had it... we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Why do people move to NYC or LA "to be discovered"? I know too many people in my years in Detroit, who have simply taken off for another region or city without a job, because that is where they want to be. I think most people will gravitate toward lifestyle... while only some maintain security and logic and will go where the job is.
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 674
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Basically, Detroit is lacking the LIFESTYLE most people are seeking."

I don't know if I would say "most". I think a lot of people when they reach a certain point in their life, like when they have kids, tend to gravitate to a suburban experience. But for that segment of the population who want the urban experience, I agree that it's largely absent from SE Michigan.

Even among those wanting a suburban lifestyle, I think a segment of that group want a Royal Oak or Ferndale version of Suburbia versus a Novi or a Troy. Again, outside of the usual places like RO or Ferndale or Rochester (the city, not the Hills), where do they go?

As for the people who go to LA or NYC, I think there's a huge challenge in keeping a lot of those people here. They are going to LA or NYC for specific jobs or experience that we'll likely never have here. They may come back to Detroit but unless we can recreate Hollywood or Broadway in Detroit, good luck keeping them here.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 3432
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Weather must be a factor if people (Ray1936 comes to mind) move to warmer climate immediately after they retire (the desert & hurricane alley).

Anyway, if you guys insist, no one can have any type of lifestyle if there's no income flowing in the household. That's why jobs always come first (with retirees being the exception). If you're lucky enough to find a good job that fits you in Detroit, more power to ya.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1739
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I got out of college, I stayed the summer then moved the hell out of michigan. When you're young; employment and lifestyle. As you get older or married, it changes to security money and then you can find a suitable dwelling.

If you get robbed a couple times, usually you move out of the city.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 957
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Novine, you're right. But again, you talk about the Detroit Metro area. Why doesn't the City Limits have neighborhoods like Royal Oak, Ferndale, Birmingham or Rochester? It absolutely COULD! It USED to be there, but those areas are dead, now. I mean, Midtown was growing in the correct direction for many years, but now, it has slowed to barely a trickle. Why? I love Midtown! It is a great area and can be very exciting, but yet, somehow it loses it's luster.

All of the people I knew 5 years ago in Midtown have moved somewhere else, now. Why can't Detroit maintain the excitement and the PEOPLE? (One could argue because of jobs.) The ground work for growth is there... I think the City just needs the proper leadership and improved policing skills. There are Entrepeneurs who are willing to invest a lot of money, but I think they feel the risk is still to high.

Maybe if there were more jobs, then the Urban lifestyle could improve. I guess it is the chicken or the egg discussion. Which comes first?

My personal feeling is Detroit was close to the tipping point before the whole Kwame distraction (and credit crunch). All that is being undone and it will take another 5 years to rebuild that excitement to reach the tipping point, again. oh, and btw, as Novine said, those areas people like the best need to be rebuilt within the City limits, because it is the neighborhoods that will rebuild this city, not Downtown or it's big projects.

As an example, look at San Diego. Gorgeous City with a VERY lively core and fantastic neighborhoods. I could hardly believe it is the 8th largest city in the US, but the city had all aspects of Lifestyle one might want. downtown Urban, neighborhood Urban, neighborhood suburban and very suburban. I liked the feel of all the areas and found it very livable in all aspects.

I had the same feeling for Boston, Minneapolis and Heaven forbid, Houston. I think when people visit Detroit and get the "insider" tour, they are very impressed, but when they visit on their own? not so good. That is my point.
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 678
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Novine, you're right. But again, you talk about the Detroit Metro area. Why doesn't the City Limits have neighborhoods like Royal Oak, Ferndale, Birmingham or Rochester?"

I was going to say something about that. You're absolutely right that the city needs neighborhoods like that within the city limits. I'm 100% with you that no matter what happens downtown, until there are neighborhoods that function well, Detroit's going to continue on a downward spiral. The biggest obstacle I see for the revitalization or sustaining Detroit city neighborhoods is the schools. It makes it terribly difficult to keep people in the city or get them to move to the city if they have kids when the schools are in the state they are today. I know that many people do the private school or charter school or school-of-choice route. But it creates such a huge obstacle to entry for people with kids interested in an urban lifestyle. Sure, there are plenty of people who don't have kids or won't have kids or whose kids have moved out who don't care as much about the schools. But you can't build a city on just those people.

One other point, you noted some good examples of successful cities that have a mix of urban and suburban development. How about something closer to home like Ann Arbor? It has a downtown and it has a lot of dense residential neighborhoods. But it also has a lot of suburban-style development even within the city limits. Briarwood Mall? Plymouth Road northeast of downtown? These don't look very different that what you'll find in Novi or Troy or Shelby Township. One of the reasons that I think Ann Arbor is a place people want to live is that no matter what housing option you want, other than living on a farm or 10 acres, you can probably find it within the city. The city also has done a good job of tying it all together with transit, bikepaths and sidewalks and having a lot of parks and green places. Cities and townships that want to be successful could learn a lot from how Ann Arbor has pulled together all of the pieces to make itself a place where people want to live, not just a place where you live because you have to call somewhere home.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3528
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just returned home to Las Vegas after two weeks in Northern Michigan. Wonderful time. I tried to bring back a gallon of Lake Michigan water, but the airport security in Traverse City took it away from me......sob............

No, not really. But Michigan is a gem, and I'd still be there were it not for winter, which lasts from early November to late April.

That said, I'm sure glad I'm comfortably retired and well out of the job hunt, especially back in MI. I really worry for you younger guys and gals back there, and wish nothing but the best to all of you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 4728
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The biggest obstacle I see for the revitalization or sustaining Detroit city neighborhoods is the schools. It makes it terribly difficult to keep people in the city or get them to move to the city if they have kids when the schools are in the state they are today. I know that many people do the private school or charter school or school-of-choice route. But it creates such a huge obstacle to entry for people with kids interested in an urban lifestyle. Sure, there are plenty of people who don't have kids or won't have kids or whose kids have moved out who don't care as much about the schools. But you can't build a city on just those people.



I completely disagree. The schools are definitely an obstacle, but remember that families with school-age children are only 25% of the population. Considering how much schools can consume in the way of resources, are you really going to throw endless amounts of money at a problem to target only one-quarter of your potential customers?

Most other large cities that have gentrified are doing it in spite of terrible school systems, mostly because they offer an environment appealing to young, single, educated and sophisticated people. I would argue that, in large degree, you CAN build a city on these types of people. It's pretty simple math: consider what each resident pays in taxes, and subtract what each consumes in services.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 3063
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe Detroit needs to build more townhouses and luxury (affordably priced) apartment complexes to lure young, entrepreneurial, professional, single or newly married couples into the city. Most young people are not looking for a house once they graduate from college. They are not worried about the strength of the local public schools.
Top of pageBottom of page

Youngprofessionaldetroiter
Member
Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 194
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Most other large cities that have gentrified are doing it in spite of terrible school systems, mostly because they offer an environment appealing to young, single, educated and sophisticated people. I would argue that, in large degree, you CAN build a city on these types of people. It's pretty simple math: consider what each resident pays in taxes, and subtract what each consumes in services."

"I believe Detroit needs to build more townhouses and luxury (affordably priced) apartment complexes to lure young, entrepreneurial, professional, single or newly married couples into the city. Most young people are not looking for a house once they graduate from college. They are not worried about the strength of the local public schools."

I agree wholeheartedly...but of course, that prolly doesn't surprise anyone here.

Let's face it. Detroit Family school aged population is 25%. The school system, in my mind, has been dead since the mid-80s. That's apparent to the 75% of people who don't have school aged children, as well as the 900,000 people who've left the city.

If you lose 50,000 family demographics and gain 50,000 singles or dinks? That's a huge win for Detroit.

YPD
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 686
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you're both missing a key point here. If you can get people to move into the city with kids, those are people who are going to stick around when the kids grow up and move away. But those young professionals that you crave? When they start having kids, a lot of them are going to take off for the 'burbs. Not all of them want kids or will have kids. But a good number of them will and a lot of them will go to a Royal Oak or a Ferndale or a Plymouth for their slice of semi-urban life and decent schools. Once they get settled down in the suburbs, a lot of them don't come back even after the kids grow up and move out. It's not the simple trade-off that you present YPD. It's the long-term loss of population that you never fully recover.
Top of pageBottom of page

Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 1149
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I gotta agree with Novine. DINK strategy only works for awhile and is not sustainable.

In general, those people who have kids also are folks who later in life own businesses, and it's been shown CEOs put their businesses near where they live. Those with kids also tend to invest more in their living spaces and take better care of their stuff because they have a family. There are always exceptions.

That, and women. Detroit has a serious problem with white women. I'm sure stereotypes play mostly into this one - because I've been told as much many times.

I can say 9 out of 10 move-outs I know to the 'burbs were female-initiated, either just before or after marriage.
Top of pageBottom of page

Youngprofessionaldetroiter
Member
Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 196
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"It's not the simple trade-off that you present YPD. It's the long-term loss of population that you never fully recover."

"I gotta agree with Novine. DINK strategy only works for awhile and is not sustainable. "
------------
That's fair enough. And inevitably, I think we will have to do both. The problem I see is this...which would be easier: attracting singles and dinks? Or fixing Detroit schools and attracting families back to the city? Right now we're losing both. Singles and DINKs are at least open to the idea of moving in to the city. Not at all for families in the suburbs. Singles and DINKs bring are a net financial positive to the balance sheet, because they use no school resources, live in high-density (therefore easier to provide security) areas, and have lots of disposable income. Families have a much higher need for security, are likelier to live in lower-density areas and need school services.

I bet in 5-10 years we could bring back singles and DINKs into the city. If we could do the same for families by fixing schools, I'd be all for it. I would love, DV, to see lots of families in the city, with those families opening up and owning businesses where they live.

Maybe I'm wrong, I just think that that route seems longer, requiring more resources, and extremely difficult. Dealing with the politics of the school board...

It needs to be done, I know, but man, it seems like that might take an entire generation.

With yuppies? Throw a cafe and a restaurant in the bottom floor of a high-rise, and put it in an area where there are other high-rises with restaurants. And in 5 years at least you end up with a new group of people who aren't hardened in their anti-Detroit mentality that seems to paralyze our region.

Oh, and a bonus? The whole region gets to keep some of these 20- and 30-somethings that are bolting out of here like crazy.

YPD

(Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on August 21, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 3065
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Novine and Digitalvision:

I do believe that Detroit will always have a preponderance of single-family detached homes. Most cities will cater to this demographic. However, Detroit needs to build more townhouses and luxury (affordably-priced) apartment complexes in the hip areas (college neighborhoods, bars, museums, riverfront, etc.) if the city wants to attract a young, educated and professional population. Detroit cannot sustain itself much longer if it depends only on single detached homes to lure families into the city. I can tell you right now the homeowners' insurance, property values and property taxes are a MAJOR DETERRENT to why folks won't move inside the city.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 4920
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/17256992/detail.html

have fun toasting marshmallows with your neighbors in your multi-unit dwellings when the resident crackhead builds you a fire
Top of pageBottom of page

Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 342
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with the people who say the city doesn't need to keep/attract middle-class people with kids--hardly any cities manage it anyway.

However, if you can't keep younger people around, when they have kids and move it won't be to someplace in the Detroit suburbs, it will be to the suburbs of wherever they were living before. That is why it is important for the region as a whole to have places that it is attractive for those younger people to live. Those places don't have to be in Detroit, but there isn't any reason they can't be, and creating those places is easier than fixing the schools.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 343
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course if they can't find decent jobs they won't stick around even if there are nice places to live, but at least they will feel bad when they leave!
Top of pageBottom of page

Maxdetroit
Member
Username: Maxdetroit

Post Number: 57
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You coudn't pay me to live in the desert. I don't care about the twinkling lights and great golf courses. Too hot is too hot--with or without humidity.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores

Post Number: 306
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, once again, both sides (location vs. lifestyle) are pretty well equally divided. It's kinda like M*A*S*H versus Three's Company.
Top of pageBottom of page

Youngprofessionaldetroiter
Member
Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 197
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"have fun toasting marshmallows with your neighbors in your multi-unit dwellings when the resident crackhead builds you a fire"
haha...so much to learn, Lilpup...that's what yuppies refer to as "ambience"

"Those places don't have to be in Detroit, but there isn't any reason they can't be, and creating those places is easier than fixing the schools."

That's what I'm talkin' about...

YPD

btw, the whole weather argument is, I think, not as relevant as far as lifestyle is concerned. Young people are getting married later and later than in previous generations, and the need for single family detached housing isn't something that most of my friends think about until they are on the verge of having children. Usually late 20s for the women I know, and late 20s through mid 30s for the men I know. So people are living the "college lifestyle" for 5, 10, 15 years after graduation. Detroit doesn't really offer that. That's what I mean by "lifestyle".

(Message edited by youngprofessionaldetroiter on August 22, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 4736
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I think you're both missing a key point here. If you can get people to move into the city with kids, those are people who are going to stick around when the kids grow up and move away. But those young professionals that you crave? When they start having kids, a lot of them are going to take off for the 'burbs.



So, it's better to let them "take off for the 'burbs" in another metropolitan area?

You're thinking too statically. If you can create an urban environment in which people will want to live, the young 'uns will replenish themselves.
Top of pageBottom of page

Youngprofessionaldetroiter
Member
Username: Youngprofessionaldetroiter

Post Number: 200
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^Agreed. I'd rather have all my boys get married off and have kids and move to Royal Oak, Bloomfield Hills, and Troy rather than Westchester County, NY or Highland Park, IL.

YPD
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 710
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary Kramer takes note of the discussion here:

http://crainsdetroit.com/artic le/20080825/SUB/808250317

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.