 
Mschievous
Member
Username: Mschievous
Post Number: 152
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 1:31 pm: |    |
Thank you, Reality! All:
1. This did NOT happen to me!
2. I passed this information on, not so we could make judgment calls on the victim(s) and their actions, but so we could ALL start (or continue) to pay close attention to our immediate surroundings.
3. This incident can happen to anyone, ANYWHERE! Do not get into a Detroit vs. suburb discussion. This was a crime of opportunity and I'm sure the same opportunity is available elsewhere.
4. Police officers will tell you to run in the opposite direction (you should already be jogging AGAINST traffic for safety reasons, right?)
5. None of us know what we would have done with a gun pointed at us. I posted this only so we can all take precautions.
Now take care and be safe! |
Steelworker
Member
Username: Steelworker
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 1:36 pm: | |
I know I know all about crime in suburbs blah blah blah. I was just saying that the percentage is lot lower in the burbs, and the bonus of having great city services. And i have lived in Detroit a lot. I could rent there no problem but in the stance of buying something I bought in the burbs. If i ever did buy in the city it would probably not be a single family home. I would buy a fenced in condo/loft thing in midtown so if needed I could call WSU police. Not meaning to hijack thread. |
Tkierpiec
Member
Username: Tkierpiec
Post Number: 112
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:01 pm: | |
I'm with janesback on this one - I'd like to think I would be savvy enough to run like hell but the truth is, you can never be entirely sure how you might react until you find yourself in that situation (God forbid!) Some people get that adrenaline rush and flee while others might know better but freeze with fear and don't necessarily make the best decision. Fortunately nobody got hurt this time. Thanks for the heads up, OP. I know I need these reminders to be more observant of my surroundings, I tend to get very slack about my personal safety in this city. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 12022
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:05 pm: | |
quote:What would you do with a gun pointed at you?
If it ever happended to me I would wet myself. Not too sure after that.
Glad all worked out OK for the family and I hope that these scumbags get caught and prosecuted to the extreme extent of the law. |
Chrissy_snow
Member
Username: Chrissy_snow
Post Number: 90
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:20 pm: | |
" Police officers will tell you to run in the opposite direction (you should already be jogging AGAINST traffic for safety reasons, right?) "
I think this is one of the most important safety factors that we overlook, when out walking/running. I never remember it myself until I hear it and then I think, yeah, that's right.
Whenever possible, if you're out on the street, cross over and go against the traffic. No one in a car can pull up and snatch you up because they'll always be on the opposite side.
Another one I often hear is to run in a zig zag, if you can remember that one! If you're trying to get away and the person might be shooting at you, try not to run straight.
Maybe this story is a good lesson to NOT take your wallet with you when jogging? But then, what if you're in an accident? There's got to be a way to identify yourself but also keep a potential crime from getting worse like what happened above.
Maybe just the drivers license in the shoes?
It's a shame that you have to plan ahead of time what you might say/do if attacked, before you leave the house to just freaking exercise! |
Downriviera
Member
Username: Downriviera
Post Number: 891
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:22 pm: | |
I know I need these reminders to be more observant of my surroundings, I tend to get very slack about my personal safety in this city.
Good point Tkierpeic. I was mugged years ago (not in Detroit but Honolulu of all places). I survived with a broken nose, black eye and swollen lip. But that incident changed me forever. I never let myself get into vulnerable positions, I get a tingling feeling anytime a stranger gets near me. I will never be taken by surprise again. It can happen anywhere, but more so where the criminals know there is a lack of police presence. |
Alley
Member
Username: Alley
Post Number: 555
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:43 pm: | |
C_S, I believe it said the reason these people told him to get in the car was because he DIDN'T have his wallet. The 'ID in your shoe' idea is always good, just in case something is to happen while you're out  |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 205
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:43 pm: | |
Find it hard to believe that a growed-ass man would bring 3 armed men back to his crib where wife is making coffee & breakfast and kids are watching morning 'toons just cuz they told him to 'get in the car'.
Sounds like one for snopes.
I's not rocket science - dude was already dressed in sneaks, stretched out & warmed up to RUN, then he should have just run.
The story is either bogus or the man is a moron. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 206
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:47 pm: | |
Oh, and for all of you Nancies who aren't sure what you would do in that situation ? Some of us are quite certain about what we would do - either because we've been there or have some degree of foresight, logic and confidence. |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 3283
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 2:51 pm: | |
Jt1: If it ever happended to me I would wet myself. Not too sure after that.
I so agree with you. After that, I might start to cry |
Alley
Member
Username: Alley
Post Number: 556
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 3:01 pm: | |
I agree that it was so dumb to bring these guys back to his house with his wife and kids home. First, even if I thought these guys WOULD kill me if I didn't get in the car, that's fine, kill me--at least you didn't have access to my kids and husband, too. I'd rather take my chances and run than put the rest of my family at risk. Also, now these guys know where he lives and what he has, and could come back at any point. Not good. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1643
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 3:03 pm: | |
I think I was sympathic to Mschievous because I mistakenly thought her hubby was involved.
"Oh gosh honey, yeah I lost my wallet because ... er, ah ...the robbers took it; no, I wasn't at the casino ... no I don't know nobody named Sharice, I got no idea how her panties got on the living room floor...dem mean ol robbers shor nuff dun left 'em there. They were mean, terroists they was, probably from Libia or Iran or one of them crazy countries. I hear there are gangs of terroists robbing joggers 'cuz they think we're making fun of their name, Iran."
sure |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 3400
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 3:04 pm: | |
Very well put Alley & Raggedclaws.
The more I think about it, mschievous's husband made a dumb & selfish decision. |
Eriedearie
Member
Username: Eriedearie
Post Number: 2753
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 3:08 pm: | |
Whether the story is bogus or the man is a moron - this is a good reminder to all of us to be aware of our surroundings. Plus there is some very good advice further up in the thread. I would have never thought about telling the thugs that I was staying at the Marriot or some such place as that. That is an excellent suggestion IMO.
As for screaming and running. I would like to think I would do that. But I've had these recurring nightmares where something like that is happening to me and I'm trying to scream and nothing will come out. In real life, I do believe that might just happen with me if I tried that get away approach. Hopefully, I will never have to find out.
So thank you Mschievous for posting this so we can be more observant and thanks to everyone for their suggestions. |
7051
Member
Username: 7051
Post Number: 136
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 4:08 pm: | |
mschievous,
Probably the same perps here in the University District. Here is an email excerpt from the Yahoo Net Word system that our security committee and radio patrol and security patrol use to quickly spread info. "Identical" refers to a purse snatching last sunday or monday by occupants of a stolen SUV which took place during the morning hours. This next excerpt is about our Thursday incident that took place the same day as your incident, and, shortly before your incident in Rosedale.
"The identical type of mugging happened this morning Thursday 8/14 - 7:15 a.m. to an Oak Drive resident just around the corner from the Birchcrest resident - by probably the same individuals. The car parked on the street was approached by a black Escalade - victims purse and car were taken. Please watch out for these prowlers - until "THEY ARE CAUGHT." They probably think that we are a good target. Let's prove them wrong!•• |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 354
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 4:11 pm: | |
If you're running for health reasons, stop!
Always carry a few bucks to give to a robber. A "phony" wallet made to look real is even better.
Remember the address of a home very close to a police station. That's where you live. |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 460
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 4:13 pm: | |
After reading some of these posts, I thought I would share my story
I had a situation where I was trapped in a drive way, my next door neighbors driveway and a high cedar fence. Literally, I was "boxed" in a squared off area between my house and my neighbors., The only exit was to go directly thru them, I was trapped on 3 sides and the only exit was directly thru the 2 of them.
I was out clipping my hedge that abbuted my cedar fence in this boxed area. I had 2 guys see me from the street, as I was on a ladder clipping my hedge when they walked down the driveway to ask me for a "handout"
I freaked, I was so dammed scared, I can't find the words to tell you the feeling I had.I knew these 2 thugs were going to rape/kill me and I had no chance in this boxed area that was towards the back of our houses. I could see in their eyes a type of fear, they knew they were going to take me out and it showed in their eyes. They were more afraid that I was.......
I dont know how I did this, but I screamed, at the top of my lungs
"GUYS, WATCH OUT, THEY(neighbors) HAVE A KILLER GERMAN SHEPARD AND IT WILL ATTACK YOU"
I then proceeded to point to my neighbors side yard where they did indeed have a dog house,that has not been used in about 10 years.......
Get it, they were expecting some killer dog to charge them our of this dog house and attack them..........
Let me tell you , these guys eyes opened wide as saucers and they ran like hell.....This is a true story and straight to the point
I was able to scare them back, distract them for one second, and get between them and my front yard.
Literally, they outran me to get the fuck away from this (supposed) killer dog.........LOL, I swear, Im not kidding....
I did make it inside my house where I took out my 18 inch barrel, single shot, shot gun.......I was prepared .
I called the cops, made reports and this is when I was advised to do what I had posted above........
I will never ever ever be able to tell you all what I felt as a woman,being helpless, being scared,being totally unprepared for this attempted attack.
I froze with fear, paralyzed and knew death was looking my straight in the eye......
I want to tell you all, there are no words, no words to tell you the fear I felt.........I WAS TOTALLY HELPLESS.......the only weapon I had was my clippers that I was using for defens, until I could get my gun.
I hope Im not rambling, but the original story brought back a terrifying experience that I will never ever get over.......Just always , always be prepared......always....
Hope some one benefits from this. Just don't allow the scum to make a new crime scene by submitting to their demands......fight back
Jane |
Detroitpetanque
Member
Username: Detroitpetanque
Post Number: 142
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
Since they didn't know where he lived, he should have led them to the Manoogian Mansion! |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 294
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 6:36 pm: | |
Gnome & Gogo, yes bad stuff happens in suburbs. Bad stuff happens everywhere. My grandfather was a Seattle cop-retired as a Homicide Detective. This wasn't the pleasant latte slurpers you see on Travel Channel, this is before they turned it around(something everyone on this board wishes this town woul;d do-stories like this set it back though)...the vintage shabby Navy town; pre-Kurt Cobain...Bill Gates father left before sundown Seattle. He boiled it down rrreeaall simple;
NEVER GO WITH THEM TO THE SECOND CRIME SCENE
NEVER GO WITH THEM TO THE SECOND CRIME SCENE
NEVER GO WITH THEM TO THE SECOND CRIME SCENE
if they were serious about killing you, they'd done it there on the spot anyway. Run away!-yes-I've been mugged, I've been @ gunpoint-first times in Detroit on both(yay). But by doing what the Man With The Gun Says(Strong On Defense; more people are killed by fear of being hurt than anything else; I'll let you go if you let me tie you up...'member this is the Word Of Scum With A Gun/Knife/Rabid Weasel) Congratulations-you made you're family's home with your wife & infant child sleeping unawares THE SECOND CRIME SCENE.
Light every candle @ church that none of you wound up in a Wichita/Petit Family Massacre |
Zrx_doug
Member
Username: Zrx_doug
Post Number: 508
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 7:08 pm: | |
Another solid argument for getting your CCW and fighting back.
I don't wanna rip on the original poster, but I'd choose to kill or be killed before I took the trouble home to my family. |
Chrissy_snow
Member
Username: Chrissy_snow
Post Number: 95
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 7:34 pm: | |
"Since they didn't know where he lived, he should have led them to the Manoogian Mansion!"
LOL, that wouldn't have worked - they were probably friends of Kwame!••• They would have known instantly you were lying cuz they might have just came from there!
"Always carry a few bucks to give to a robber. A "phony" wallet made to look real is even better. "
That's a shame. Put aside a few bucks daily for the robber like you do lunch money for your kids. That can add up too, lol. Can you write it off on your taxes?
Is this what we've come to? It's so sad to have to sit here and come up with creative ideas. This was a grown man, but what about the young kids out walking to school or high school athletes out for a morning run? |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3512
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 8:26 pm: | |
"Where's a cop on DetroitYes for his professional opinion when you really need him?"
Present.
That's a toughie. The normal response from any law enforcement officer is to not resist, to comply fully with the perpetrator, and to try to stay calm. But for getting into the car and getting driven away? Damn. I can't go with that. Depending on the person who is the victim, a number of options pop into mind.
1. If an older person, feign a heart attack and drop to the pavement and moan. Clutch your chest and become unresponsive.
2. If you're in good shape, run like hell. Some of the suggestions above are worthwhile, in my opinion.
3. In my younger days, of course, I simply would have ventilated the perp with a few .38 special holes in his miserable body. But I haven't carried a gun since I retired in '84. Twenty-five years was enough, and, of course, I don't live in or near Detroit any more.
4. Your ass is hanging anyway, so just say "fuck you" and see what kind of joker is in his deck. I'd probably kick him in the nuts and go for the gun, but that's me and that's stupid but that's me and I don't recommend that to you. And yes, I'll guarantee that car was stolen. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 6113
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 9:37 pm: | |
quote:4. Your ass is hanging anyway, so just say "fuck you" and see what kind of joker is in his deck. I'd probably kick him in the nuts and go for the gun, but that's me and that's stupid but that's me and I don't recommend that to you. And yes, I'll guarantee that car was stolen. LOL! That's what I was going to say ... plus stick a shiv in his tire to slow his escape from my murder!
You can only take so much before going nuts.  |
Westsiiiide
Member
Username: Westsiiiide
Post Number: 210
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 9:42 pm: | |
Thats why everyone will soon discover that tall security fences don't work in the City of Detroit.
You must keep at least one side opened with a chain link so somebody can see. Its really sad thats this is how we live.
I just decided to put a cedar shadow fence on one side of my property, but only 4 feet tall.
It is by no means safe in the some "nicer" neighborhoods anymore, mine included. And the thing about it, most of the thugs are just teens. |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 295
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 9:44 pm: | |
By way of comparison here's a write-up on a Kings fan who went to a nightclub in Hollywood & even bought his assailant a beer, while he saved his buddy's life-he took bullets to the stomach & liver. But those Kings are poor on defense. I love how he doesn't care about his shooter, but the guy on the BBS who flames him gets his bile...
http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs /f4/thank_you_very_much_suppor t-83250.html |
Mschievous
Member
Username: Mschievous
Post Number: 153
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 9:45 pm: | |
I talked to the friend who sent me this. It's his understanding that they got his address from his ID. The PO in me doesn't like that scenario but it is what it is.
Again, the information was passed on so we can all be more aware of the dangers lurking out there. Whether we believe it happened the way I posted it or not, we all know that it CAN happen, anytime, anywhere. Just stay safe!
P.S. and I thank you all for your sympathetic thoughts, even though I wasn't the victim!
(Message edited by mschievous on August 15, 2008) |
Benfield
Member
Username: Benfield
Post Number: 49
Registered: 06-2008
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 9:59 pm: | |
quote:Where's a cop on DetroitYes with their professional opinion when you need one?
I, for one am curious as to what they would recommend. I'm no cop, but jogging with a Glock and a couple Dobermans wouldn't hurt your odds any. |
Tayshaun22
Member
Username: Tayshaun22
Post Number: 429
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 10:33 pm: | |
Please guys. Running, not jogging. You don't buy running shoes, running shorts, running socks then turn around and go out for a jog. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 901
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 - 11:14 pm: | |
at least you had some excitement in youre life.
I walked into a house that was being robbed! One of the robbers had one of the victims open the door for me. I walked up the steps and the guy had hlf his face covered holding a big gun, I smiled-he nodded jokes on me when I get to the living room I realized it was for real! Had several people on the floor, stomping on one of the victims, cut the back of another.One of the rpbbers my hair which was shoulder length at the time,pressed a knife against my neck, I very briskly and timidly gave him the 20 spot in my sock which I had hid (because it was a tough neighborhood incase I got robbed)one of the victims sprinted for the door with robbers in pursuit exiting firing shots in the air or at the fleeing victim. They practically had to peel me off the floor. not fun. |
Dorothyd
Member
Username: Dorothyd
Post Number: 37
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 10:37 am: | |
Reminds me of some years ago a Wayne State student was robbed and killed and the thugs got his address from his driver's license and went to his home and killed his wife and baby. Since then there has been talk of not putting addresses on driver's licenses for this reason. The police would have access to that information. My insurance company no longer puts my address on my proof of insurance. Ray1936: Couldn't this be done, along with no address on the registration? |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 3513
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:25 am: | |
It's possible, I suppose, Dorothy. But if someone really wants to find you, they can with all the data available on the internet. However, I think not having an address on a driver's license would cause more problems than it would solve. Finding my home is just a click away. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 971
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 16, 2008 - 11:53 am: | |
quote:Cause nothing ever happens in the burbs! NOT. My coworkers sister had 3 guys break into her house, tie her up, and repeatedly rape her. Then they poured bleach all over her and left her there for over a day before someone found her. Where she had 3rd degree burns. This was in Warren and very close to the hospital. Not Detroit. Get a grip.
And how much of Warren's violent crime occurs as a result of their close proximity to Detroit? I hate to break it to you, but Detroit criminals like to travel out to the burbs to commit robberies and steal cars and then flee back into the safety of the criminal haven that is Detroit. |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2126
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 17, 2008 - 11:55 pm: | |
quote:"Always carry a few bucks to give to a robber. A "phony" wallet made to look real is even better. "
That's a shame. Put aside a few bucks daily for the robber like you do lunch money for your kids. That can add up too, lol. Can you write it off on your taxes?
It's probably overkill but I actually have a special phony wallet (from the dollar store) with a few bucks and some fake/promo credit cards in it, which I always take on walks. Have never actually had to give it away in the six years I've lived here, though. Also carry pepper spray although that's more for stray dogs. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 903
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 1:44 am: | |
Pepper spray is a good idea for stray dogs Doug. I share youre concern about wild dogs roaming the city. |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 1677
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 2:37 am: | |
Your pepper spray will often have no effect if its left frozen then thawed. Dont leave your new can of pepper spray in the car in the winter and also buy it from a good source. This is no joke. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2567
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 6:16 am: | |
I'm really goddam sorry to be so blunt about this, but I think the post which initiated this thread, which was later revealed to be just another it-didn't-really-happen-to-me- but-watch-out-because-it-could -happen-to-you bullshit "advisory," is idiotic, and it reminds me of the idiotic stuff I find thumb-tacked to bulletin boards and passed around break-areas in offices. |
Richard_bak
Member
Username: Richard_bak
Post Number: 449
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 8:04 am: | |
The story may have been true, or it may have been bullshit. Either way the advice offered here is all pretty much solid. This is coming from a guy who's been mugged and robbed twice (once in Detroit). |
Janesback
Member
Username: Janesback
Post Number: 461
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 10:05 am: | |
Kind of ironic. This employee was shown in a video with a gunman telling her to come outside her c onvenience store with him. Authorities found her body 50 miles from her store.
Again, dont leave with them if they tell you to. Take your chances, its pretty obvious she didn't stand a chance........Jane
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s tories/T/TX_CLERK_ABDUCTED_TXO L-?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=HOME&TEM PLATE=DEFAULT |
Rsw
Member
Username: Rsw
Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Monday, August 18, 2008 - 3:35 pm: | |
Dorothyd, Not to change the subject, but we were just talking the other night about that awful crime that happened down by Wayne State. It was quite a few years ago, wasn't it? If I remember right it was around Christmas, and the robbers also took their gifts. Also, I remember it was the daughter or son of someone from Hollywood? or someone well known? Do you remember who it was, or any names? Thanks in advance for any info... |
Dorothyd
Member
Username: Dorothyd
Post Number: 38
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 10:56 am: | |
Rsw: I think it happened in the 70's, but you are right, it was quite a few years ago. They killed the man and had his keys and driver's license with address on it so they knew right where to go. They let themselves into the apartment where they killed his wife and child. You are right, there was a relationship to a Hollywood director or something like that. I had forgotten about that. Good memory. |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 5369
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 12:25 pm: | |
Dec 1982 or Jan 1983.
The guy was robbed and killed while walking home from WSU (med school, I think) on East Forest. The perps went to his house on Hancock, just east of Old Main.
Anytime I pass the house on Hancock, I can't help but think of those people. |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 296
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 12:56 pm: | |
Dorothyd, Barnesfoto is right-it was the mid 1980's-I brought this story up in an earlier thread...one of the boardmembers here was a secretary with the wife @ WSU....there was nothing of the case on Google even though the story made headlines 'round the world. As I recall the robbers raped the wife then held her down & made her watch them stab her infant daughter thru the heart before she herself was killed. These hoodlums always take out productive people, like the Petits. I was appalled to see Michael Moore bragging on a talkshow how "forward thinking" the people of Michigan were in 1834 by having anti-death penalty language written into the state's Constitution. Some of the worst things outside of the Old Testament are Michigan true-crime stories. I wonder if these characters realize they're getting a needle or noose instead of 3 hot's & a cot if it would make them fly right. When you think of how the Long Island Railroad gunman made a sea-change in New York Capital Murder, it just seems nothing is too appalling here, but you've got a guy out of Flint blaming gunlaws & trying to prove his point by opening front doors in Ontario while interviewing kids playing hooky & black guys on the streets of Sarnia & Windsor |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3003
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 1:08 pm: | |
But the death penalty has been shown not to deter crime. In the heat of the moment, people do not consider the consequences. And if you institute the death penalty for felonies like robbery, what is the incentive for a "careful" criminal to leave a living witness to the crime?
Our tough American mythology about punishing the bad guys doesn't really work in the real world. Making a safer country means investing the time and effort in making sure people are nourished, healthy, happy and have a future filled with opportunities. Maybe that's why countries like Germany and Japan have low crime rates and we have the most people in prison in the world. |
Dorothyd
Member
Username: Dorothyd
Post Number: 39
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 4:12 pm: | |
Barnesfoto and Flyingj: Thanks for correcting the date. Time just seems to blend together anymore if it is something that happened more than a couple years ago. I do remember the story that they made the mother watch as they killed her baby. Do you remember who the Hollywood connection was? |
Farrer
Member
Username: Farrer
Post Number: 620
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 4:58 pm: | |
quote:Making a safer country means investing the time and effort in making sure people are nourished, healthy, happy and have a future filled with opportunities.
Hunh? Oh yes, it's the governments job to provide this for us. No personal accountability required. You won't need your guns or knives, then. That is, unless you see more "opportunities". |
Graceful
Member
Username: Graceful
Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 19, 2008 - 5:10 pm: | |
Did they ever catch the individuals who committed the murders of the Wayne State man and his family? |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 5372
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 3:04 am: | |
yes, many years later.
The evilness of this particular crime is one of the reasons that I used to support the death penalty.
I used to say "There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized society, but the United States is not a civilized society"
It didn't even bother me that it cost more to execute someone, with all the administrative work and appeals.
But what did change my mind was learning how often people who were not actually guilty of the crimes they were accused of were executed or nearly executed.
http://www.innocenceproject.or g/
Scroll through the website and ask yourself how many people who are not actually guilty are worth sacrificing to kill those who are. |
Superdave
Member
Username: Superdave
Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 - 11:38 pm: | |
1st) Michigan has the CCW law. take the class. pass the background check and give the county $60 and you can carry a gun
2nd) if you're approached don't be afraid to use it. just showing it will deter most assailants.
3rd) Michigan has the Castle Doctrine - you don't have to retreat if threatened. This protects you from criminal AND civil prosecution. If you are in a place you are legally entitled to be and are threatened with death, robbery, rape or serious bodily injury SHOOT them. DON'T BE A VICTIM. This is EVERYWHERE. Detroit, Warren, West Bloomfield, Waterford, Mackinaw Island, in the woods, at Starbucks, TacoBell, Gibralter Trade Center, highway rest stop, Denny's, Fairlane Mall. You can walk down Linwood and Davison with $50 bills hanging out of your pockets and if attempted robbery the Michigan Law allows you to use deadly force without legal repurcussion.
4th)Michigan CCW holders are everywhere. In Walmart, Kroger, ToysRUs, Cabela's, your aunt's birthday party, your grandma's rest home, the guy getting gas on Central, the Costco cart retriever, the FedEx driver on his way home from work, the Blockbuster customer next to you going for the last new release on Friday night, the fireman 3 houses down, next CVS customer in line, the hillbilly with 4 dogs at the end of the street. Eventually one of these scummy robbers is going to run into one of them and get a 9mm in the forehead.Surprised it hasn't happened much already.
5th) Pull the gun - if they aren't scared fire a shot in the wall. That will alert everyone around and show your assailant you WILL use the weapon. 9 times out of 10 that will end the confrontation.If they persist you established a backout plan that they didn't heed.DON'T SHOW FEAR!! Thats what they want. It's all about intimidation.
6th) I carry a weapon wherever legally permissable. You would never know. "HI Monica. Mexi Melt and a Nacho Supreme please." I'm not a big guy and have a pleasant suburban face and would seem an easy target. The robber would get 2 shots to the chest and when falling back in disbelief would get 1 in the forehead. BREAK THE CHAIN OF VICTIMIZATION. I'm not in the militia or a right win gun nut. Just a realistic citizen not looking to be a victim utilizing all the permissable laws this state allows. Someone support me on this PLEASE. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1784
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 12:04 am: | |
Speak softly and carry a weapon, Teddy Roosevelt. |
Zrx_doug
Member
Username: Zrx_doug
Post Number: 543
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 1:19 am: | |
Most excellent posting, Dave. People who carry legally aren't victims, communities full of people who legally carry aren't easy targets..
When the crooks start to wonder if they're in a life and death situation over EVERY lousy wallet they try to lift, they'll go where the pickings are easier.
A friend of mine asks why I carry a gun in this day and age, I always tell him I'd carry a cop if I could, but they don't fit in the waistband near as nice..
|
Benjo
Member
Username: Benjo
Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 3:03 pm: | |
I think the only real solution is to use bait cars and bait victims. Five years ago I had a different opinion, but I no longer see this as entrapment. Just park Durangos and Caravans all over the city, that can be disabled, and have bait victims that look like easy targets walk down the side streets and I'm sure you could put away some of the criminal element. I live near the post office at Harper and Morang, and my neighborhood is quite chill, but when I look at the crime map that DPD added a few months back it freaks me out to see the increase in crime so close to home. In the last month, there's been two armed robberies within 1000 feet of my house. What's sad is I think I live in one of the safest neighborhoods in the city. Now that I have a child I'm starting to see things much differently. I recall a night last summer when we were staying the night with friends near 6 mile and Dequindire while I waited for some foam insulation and paint to dry back at my house. I remarked that it was a quiet night, and soon afterward someone lit off a 10 round clip.
I will soon be moving to Toledo because I couldn't find a job in my field in the Detroit area that wasn't a contact position. I will be back most weekends, and look forward to vacationing here, but the city as a whole has a long way to go for it to be a decent place to raise a family. I think once more men step up and play a role in their children's lives, the city government gets their shit together, the DPD starts giving a shit and stops blaming victims for getting robbed, DPS gets their act together, people start taking pride in their neighborhood and stop chain-smoking blunts all day while cussing at and beating their kids (a toke now and then is okay) and some jobs come to the area then Detroit will be on the right tract to returning to its former glory. |
Superdave
Member
Username: Superdave
Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 7:10 pm: | |
thanks zrx-doug - "an armed society is a polite society". don't know who said it but it's true. won't get on NRA blah blah bandwagon soapbox. just to say that if the oppurtunistic robbers know they will probably get shot then they will avoid the mugging mentality and detroit will be a little safer and business will return to detroit. if the morgue starts filling up with robbers and the feiger's can't sue the shooters thats all it will take to shake the core of low end society.
used to see a beggar all the time on 8 mile on a bike in southfield. came up to me at a gas station and TOLD me to give him money. said no and keep on moving. he said again to give him money. said AGAIN he's not getting any money and better get moving. he said he will take it and i said ok I have 9 and showed him my 9mm. didn't even point it at him. he left very fast and haven't seen him since. thats all it took. he was white by the way.
did anybody other than me know they sell TAZERS to civilians now? check CHEAPERTHANDIRT.COM - about $350. legally i can carry a deadly firearm but can't carry a non-lethal TAZER. where's the logic? i can't have a loaded impossible to hide shotgun, rifle or assault weapon but can carry a hidden handgun. not even a knife. the 17 year old WalMart checkout girl has to call someone over 18 to ring up cigarettes in her aisle but can sell me bullets.
a gunshot wound in the hood is a badge of honor but a college degree isn't. get out of jail they have a party. start a small business they dog you and want money handouts.
years ago my sister was on her way home from wrapping christmas presents for needy detroit children. 4 african american youths continually smashed her car into a guard rail to do who knows what to her. she limped it up an exit ramp to a gas station. she called police and state troopers said they would be there in 15 minutes. 2 african american ladies asked her what she was doing. she told them and they said to get in their car. she wouldn't last 15 minutes. she did and was fine when police got there. what kind of society tolerates this kind of lifestyle? maybe iraq, korea or burma but not the US. detroit is reduced to a 3rd world city. tell me i'm wrong anybody. |
Ericdetfan
Member
Username: Ericdetfan
Post Number: 286
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 7:25 pm: | |
uncle was robbed at gunpoint from his car at a corner store parking lot last week. Happened in Warrendale off of Warren Ave by where he lives. The thieves got his wallet with 14 dollars in it and his cell phone which was promptly turned off. What a waste....
I guess they were able to make a few calls on his cell cause when he got a new one he was getting calls from the thieves girlfriends!
At least I can take comfort in the fact that things cant get much worse and they are primed to get better. |
Hamtramike
Member
Username: Hamtramike
Post Number: 513
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 12:03 am: | |
yes, great post psychodave. I like the way you suggest brandishing a firearm and "firing a shot into the wall". (you might want to review applicable ccw laws). You're the type of nutjob that gives legitimate holders of a CCW permit a bad name. Hopefully, I am not anywhere near or in the same public space when you decide to save yourself. |
Zrx_doug
Member
Username: Zrx_doug
Post Number: 564
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 12:50 am: | |
Ham-Mike..it isn't "brandishing" when you are in legitimate fear for your life. And the shot into a wall (while somewhat sketchy) could be construed as a warning shot. I'd play it off as an unintentional miss if LEO's were involved..
Both are (more or less) legit uses of a defense weapon in the situation described, and not uncommon in the real world.
Plenty of "pulled my gun and the bad guy ran away" stories circulating, ditto for the "put a shot in the ground and he ran" version.
Myself, I'm not so kind or trusting of the bad guys, nor am I a big believer in the "intimidation" factor of a fire arm.
To hear some folks talk, all ya gotta do is cycle the action of a twelve gauge pump and all the bad guys in the city will be whimpering for mercy..I'm not buying that one, particularly if said bad guy is carrying his own weapon.
If my gun ever clears the holster outside of a range, someone is either gonna surrender (like NOW!) or get shot. |
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