  Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6203 Registered: 10-2003 |
Downtown HQ for FBI on hold for now BY JOHN GALLAGHER • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • August 14, 2008 The federal government said Wednesday that it has scrubbed plans, at least for now, to build a regional FBI headquarters on the near-west side of downtown Detroit. Advertisement Neil Omansky, a Chicago-based spokesman for the federal General Services Administration, said an inability to reach a satisfactory deal led to the decision. Instead, Omansky said the GSA will start looking at sites again. The government is committed to building the FBI center in Detroit, but otherwise, all options are open. When the process began in 2005, the GSA said it was seeking 7.2 to 11.6 acres to accommodate the federal law enforcement agency's Detroit-area headquarters. "We have not canceled the project," Omansky said. "We are looking at all of our options, and ... we hope to have a decision made within the next several months." | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6204 Registered: 10-2003 |
I wonder who it was that the GSA couldn't make a "satisfactory deal" with? Was it the current owners of the Executive Plaza (Danou Enterprises, Inc.) or Higgins Development Partners, who was to develop the property? Either way, I think this is ultimately a good thing. The site plan for the proposal was horrible. Perhaps, they can get a better location for such a facility the next time around. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2760 Registered: 07-2004 |
Agreed, Lmichigan. I'm surprised that with the land near their current headquarters and the McNamara Building that they couldn't make good use of it. I realize it's not the 7.2 -11.6 acres they wanted, but a vertical build seems feasible to me and would still provide protection against an Oklahoma City type attack. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 3037 Registered: 08-2004 |
I think the FBI wants a site plan similar to the newly-built Federal Reserve Bank Detroit office on Warren and Russell. It's more horizontal, meets Homeland Security standards, and they have guards to secure the place (especially for the delivery of money). I could be wrong about the FBI's intentions wanting a bigger site because of what I have stated. (Message edited by LTOrivia485 on August 15, 2008) | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 3038 Registered: 08-2004 |
I hope the FBI still looks into Corktown-Michigan area. It needs serious economic redevelopment. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5271 Registered: 02-2005 |
Tiger Stadium looks like the superblock they need. Federal money might save part of it, too. Might as well put all those expenditures into one site. Hmmm, MCS also seems about the right size, on a large set-back property, no less. It's built like a rock. Somebody start a petition. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 335 Registered: 11-2007 |
If it is true that their security requirements mean they need a superblock, I'd rather have it someplace barren. MCS would make a lot of sense, although I doubt Mr. Maroun would make a reasonable deal, even if the GSA wanted to try. However, for a federal office you should be able to take the site by eminent domain. It would be a fitting end to that particular mess. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5273 Registered: 02-2005 |
Quite honestly the MCS is one of those rare occasions where eminent domain could provide great social benefit while hurting very few (would it even hurt Maroun?). I wonder if it has been considered at all for this. And I agree, if they need a superblock, take one that we already have, do not make a new one. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3399 Registered: 09-2007 |
Somewhere near downtown Detroit would be the most logical location, and the surrounding neighborhoods aren't all that safe. As long as it gets rid of the surface lots. It's Not like Trump is in a hurry to build 100 story skyscrapers around that area. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2761 Registered: 07-2004 |
Corktown lacks a playground. If they won't use the Tiger Stadium site for one, then that surface parking lot could be a nice site. With the school, Most Holy Trinity, only a half block away, that site would be a nice playground for the students to use for various athletic and social activities. On the other hand, taking that surface parking lot and building some new residential units wouldn't be a bad idea either. The State of Michigan Building should be torn down and the land could be used for a surface parking lot for Most Holy Trinity Church. I don't see anyone wanting the building as it is, and I don't think a residential tower would work there because of all the freeway noise. Mackinaw, I would hate to see the Tiger Stadium site used for an FBI fortress that only services its employees. The TS site should be developed with the idea that it will be open to the public in some capacity, whether the site be used as a youth ballfield/museum or as retail/residential. Creating a bunker at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull would be the worst idea for the site. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1679 Registered: 07-2007 |
MCS - Now that would is a great idea for a HQ. Have a mini station downtown. Eminent domain for public use, I like it. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3401 Registered: 09-2007 |
I thought the saved portion was only the diamond? Wouldn't it defeat the entire purpse? "On the other hand, taking that surface parking lot and building some new residential units wouldn't be a bad idea either." True, but that doesn't seem an likely as a new FBI HQ. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 314 Registered: 10-2006 |
MCS is much too big for an FBI regional HQ, and it would be far too expensive anyways. That building is huge and in terrible shape. It's far worse than the B-C was. The office floors above the station were mostly vacant for over 60 years! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5274 Registered: 02-2005 |
But the steel and concrete are already there. How would it compare to building new? It's hard to say. I think the size might not be too far off, plus certain floors could be left in a semi-finished state for possible future use. Royce, I also think it would be a terrible use of the TS site. I just mentioned it because they may have honestly considered that superblock as a site. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1687 Registered: 07-2007 |
Probably Craw, but it would be sweet if it happened. Turn half of it into a Club Fed. holding pen. | ||
Amgasper01 Member Username: Amgasper01 Post Number: 64 Registered: 02-2008 |
What was the exact location of the original plan? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13777 Registered: 12-2003 |
This is not a good sign, it might be an indication that they have chosen Detroit to be one of their next False Flag sites...won't need any Federal Bureau if there isn't a city worth Investigating. I'm just saying... | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 546 Registered: 07-2005 |
MCS wouldn't work because there's active train tracks that need to pass by it. Also, there's this big network of tunnels underneath that would need to be either completely filled, or completely dug up. Also, the facade is not designed for bombs, and the interior is not designed with security checkpoints/etc. in mind. The federal reserve building was designed very particularly, and I don't think it's possible to achieve that quality in security without building new. But I don't think the FBI building needs to be as secure, and I do think it's possible to do it without huge set backs. I don't know the specifics to know if it would work, but I think it would be cool if it was an FBI tower on a retail podium. Inside the podium there would be an independent and secure lobby and elevators. And there are a ton of spaces downtown they could do it. If there were no security problems, I would suggest they building a 30 story tower on the parking lot next to the CAY building. Just to send the message.  | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3402 Registered: 09-2007 |
quote: Roughly around the area where the Greyhound Bus Station stands (yes, it would be moved yet again). | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6205 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gannon, not sure if it is really a loss if we never had it in the first place. Where is the current regional headquarters for the FBI? Amgasper01, the exact location of the original plan was to be bound by the Lodge to the east, Howard Street to the north, Brooklyn Street to the west, and Porter Street to the south. Two full blocks of 6th Street would have had to have been vacated, as well as a block of Abbott Street. The 21-story Michigan Executive Plaza (still in superb shape from what I hear) between 6th and the Lodge would have had to have been demolished. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3403 Registered: 09-2007 |
^I thought it was the McNamara Building? If I recall, one of the reason they were building a new one was due to overcrowding. (Message edited by DetroitRise on August 15, 2008) | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 338 Registered: 11-2007 |
I know an FBI office on the East Coast where there is ground-floor retail. They rented pre-existing space, and it is a low-profile location. After 9/11 they banned parking in front of the building and put up concrete barriers. Now parking is allowed again and the barriers have been replaced with cement planters. I doubt they would do that with a new headquarters building, although obviously it would be better for the streetscape. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3406 Registered: 09-2007 |
^Ah yes, that is probably one of the reasons for the new security requirements. Like the McNamara, they developed the east coast FBI office pre-9/11. Now like the McNamara, they have barriers in front of the building (since the structure's already in place). I'm guessing to avoid any plane crashes into the Federal-occupied skyscrapers, they build low-rise/superblock instead. | ||
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field Post Number: 875 Registered: 01-2008 |
quote: The only truly vacant floor, personnel-wise, was the very top (13th) up to the early 80s. There were some floors with a few empty rooms but not that many. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6206 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detroitrise, yeah, I was wondering if the McNamara offices are a regional headquarters, myself. I'm not exactly sure how the FBI structures itself, and whether if the McNamara offices are regional or local, if there even is such a division under regional. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1175 Registered: 11-2006 |
yeah, they are in the McNamara Building, but need more space. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 174 Registered: 07-2007 |
Please, God, MCS. PLEASE! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6207 Registered: 10-2003 |
I wonder how much space they are looking for? I know the site they wanted was 10.9 acres, but I don't remember seeing a number of square footage. For reference, the Michigan Central Station is an incredible 750,000 gross square feet in size. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1481 Registered: 03-2008 |
I also was not a fan of their former choice. MCS would be neat, but would really but a nice sized block between Corktown and Mexicantown. I really think this project should stay away from the CBD. That is just my opinion though. How about closer to New Center? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6208 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, I really wouldn't mind it being on, near, or outside of Grand Boulevard. It certainly doesn't need to take up 11 acres in the city center, that's for sure. If they can't make this thing more vertical, than put it outside the old city. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5275 Registered: 02-2005 |
Agreed. The fact that it's in the city is great enough. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3408 Registered: 09-2007 |
The new security requirements won't allow them to build vertical. The Federal Reserve was somehow squeezed in there, but hardly anyone commutes to & from there daily. I'm just imagining a DTE garden without the mid-rise. Would everyone prefer if they built the HQ in Troy? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6211 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't think anyone implied that. In fact, the only responses I've seen (and have made) is that there the site they chose probably wasn't the best, but that it would be great to see it in Detroit. Furthermore, the article makes note that they are still looking for a suitable site in the city. BTW, there is nothing that requires new federal structures to be built low to the ground, if even that is preferred. Even if that were true, though, I think the attack on the Pentagon shows just how ridiculous the idea is that height greatly increases the risk of attack, not to mention that the idea of anyone ever being able to fly a jet into a high-rise again seems almost equally ridiculous. Also, the Federal Reserve didn't get 'squeezed' into its currently location. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4883 Registered: 06-2004 |
Actually having a larger footprint makes it more difficult to defend from ground attack. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3417 Registered: 09-2007 |
There are other reasons besides Plane Crashes. Remember, the Pentagon wasn't directly hit by the plane & the damage caused was relatively minimal. I don't think I have to explain the World Trade Center situation. Also, I'm sure it's to prevent anything from "off the street" from just walking into the front door with a bomb. The McNamara Building isn't really fenced off nor secure. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1495 Registered: 03-2008 |
Just curious, is that why all those roads are closed around the McNamara Building? I know it's sort of off topic, but what is the story with all that? How long has it been like that? | ||
Drm Member Username: Drm Post Number: 1169 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No, it doesn't There is a playground in the historic district at the corner of Porter and Brooklyn, across the street from Mudgie's and Ladel's... which is also right across the street from the proposed FBI site. quote: The playground is on the same block as Most Holy Trinity. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2767 Registered: 07-2004 |
Drm, that's not a park. That's someone's backyard. Can you play baseball in that park? Is there enough room to play football or soccer? What you call a park in Corktown behind the school is not the type of playground I'm talking about. Where I grew up on the eastside of Detroit, anything called a playground included at least a baseball diamond, a basketball court, swings, and a slide. Those areas called a park included the things above and picnic area with picnic tables. Some parks like Chandler Park had tennis courts, a golf course, and a water slide/pool. Playfields had the baseball diamonds, basketball courts, and room for football or soccer fields. Jayne Field is a perfect example of a playfield. Whether it's a playground or a playfield, Corktown is missing one of these. Putting one on the Tiger Stadium site would be ideal for me if I was a resident of Corktown. Drm, where do the grown-ups in Corktown go when they want to play ball or engage in recreational activities? | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 1657 Registered: 08-2007 |
I would think the best location for a new FBI location would be that empty lot next to the Frank Murphy Courthouse bounded by Gratiot, the Chrysler fwy, St Antoine and my favorite Mullett. Right now they use it for misc parking of construction equipment for the Greektown Casino. The positives for this location: 1, close to downtown and the court system 2, close to DPD HQ 3, defensible 4, empty http://maps.google.com/maps?f= q&hl=en&geocode=&q=detroit,+mi chigan&ie=UTF8&ll=42.338249,-8 3.041137&spn=0.001574,0.005386 &t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.3389 08,-83.042185&panoid=_XlMc0UUo oW2U5vlU6h3xA | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 7300 Registered: 02-2007 |
Lmich - they announced back in January that they couldn't reach an accord with Higgins Dev. (out of chicago). They were going to send out an RFP, and evidently that is what is being put on hold | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4892 Registered: 06-2004 |
That might concentrate too many law enforcement entities too closely for their comfort. It would be easier to hit too many of them all at once in a relatively small spread. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6215 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gnome, Very interesting and compelling idea. It makes sense to put this thing where the existing land-use patterns are similar. I wonder who owns that lot, though? Rb336, Thanks. (Message edited by lmichigan on August 18, 2008) | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 339 Registered: 11-2007 |
"the Pentagon wasn't directly hit by the plane" There are all kinds of theories about 9/11, but the mainstream theory is that the Pentagon was directly hit by a 757. http://www.snopes.com/rumors/p entagon.asp | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6216 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's not the mainstream theory, it's the proven fact. Everything else is conspiracy theory. Yes, the Pentagon was directly hit by the jet. Not skimmed, not skirted. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7214 Registered: 08-2004 |
Agreed... it's just that the Pentagon is so vast (with dozens of courtyards) that a direct hit mainly impacted the area on that 1 of 5 sides, and unlike in a vertical high rise... folks nearby had ample exits for escape. Remember that most folks who died in the WTC weren't the ones directly impacted by the planes. A larger number of folks that died were those who worked at and above the impact zones (trapped from exits), as well as those below the impact zones when the buildings started to "pancake" upon themselves. IMHO the really tragic ones were those who worked in the north tower at or above the impact zone. Most everyone in the south tower had an extra 40+ minutes to exit, but some 550 foolishly returned to their south tower upper floors, only to meet the same trapped (or inferno) fate as those in the upper floors of the north tower. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6217 Registered: 10-2003 |
Regardless, I don't see how a high-rise increases the the already next-to-non-existant threat of a plane being flown into a high-rise, again, not to mention one that would surely be nothing over 250 feet. High-rises have a greater chance of catching serious fire than being attacked, even a government office. I'm just making a point against this idea that these new complexes need, or should want, 11 acres of property, gigantic blast walls, and meters-long buffer zones, that there is really enough of meaningful benefits to such a complex. I think they thought this being Detroit they could plop down a plop down some rural compound for relatively cheap. (Message edited by lmichigan on August 19, 2008) | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13827 Registered: 12-2003 |
I think any nation that has to have their government and police agencies in bunkers is already in decline. Those with their embassies in bunkers is an empire in decline. We're done, and not a one of us is admitting it! | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13828 Registered: 12-2003 |
OK, not a one of YOU... |
