Russix Member Username: Russix
Post Number: 112 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:03 pm: | |
Computer professionals (Warren) ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -------------------- Reply to: job-793279870@craigslist.org Date: 2008-08-12, 10:45AM EDT We are a fortune 500 company. We are looking for 20 Programming gurus, if you know flash, java, php, .net, C++, or any other language we want you. Also need 5 project managers. Qualifications: 4 year degree (Masters prefered) Certifications are desired. These are full time positions at our warren office. Flat pay structure, everyone gets 10/hour NO EXCEPTIONS. Must be willing to work 10 hours 7am - 5pm / 7 days a week. Shirt and Tie are required, no sneakers. Location: Warren Compensation: $10.00 per hour OK for recruiters to contact this job poster. Please, no phone calls about this job! Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests. PostingID: 793279870 http://detroit.craigslist.org/ eng/793279870.html |
Bussey Member Username: Bussey
Post Number: 677 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:05 pm: | |
wtf is this all about? |
Quinn Member Username: Quinn
Post Number: 1659 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:06 pm: | |
What a pile of shit posting. $10 per hour? No overtime at 70 hours per week? |
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1994 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:07 pm: | |
$10/hr for all of that? |
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow
Post Number: 76 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:10 pm: | |
ROFL!! Maybe they left off a zero, and it should be $100.00? I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt! |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2419 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:12 pm: | |
Hey - they CAN outsource to India for just $6.00/hr. The slide into the Abyss continues............... |
Mbr Member Username: Mbr
Post Number: 431 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:12 pm: | |
Ha... "Masters Preferred" and they are paying $10/Hour. Is that why you posted it because it's some kind of joke? as in a good programmer with 4yrs experience and a masters would never accept such a bullshit wage. |
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1953 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:15 pm: | |
Even worse, it is "Masters prefered" and posted on craigslist and they don't care what language you know. Nice joke... kinda. |
Malcovemagnesia Member Username: Malcovemagnesia
Post Number: 97 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:19 pm: | |
I'm tempted to apply just to find out which "Fortune 500" company would be this shockingly cheap. How much is minimum wage in Michigan, anyways? p.s. What actually is going on, most likely, is once they receive no applicants from this posting, their lawyers then have legal cover to say that they advertised locally, got no takers and therefore they need to get some H1-B visas (Indian or Chinese indentured servants) approved. |
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23
Post Number: 2420 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
quote:What actually is going on, most likely, is once they receive no applicants from this posting, their lawyers then have legal cover to say that they advertised locally, got no takers and therefore they need to get some H1-B visas (Indian or Chinese indentured servants) approved. You hit the nail on the head, Malcovemagnesia. It's done all the time below the radar, all across the nation. Enough --- |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 6200 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:40 pm: | |
Malcove, To answer your question, the minimum wage for Michigan was relatively recently raised to $7.40, I believe. |
Benfield Member Username: Benfield
Post Number: 46 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:42 pm: | |
Nobody gets satire anymore... |
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 332 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, August 12, 2008 - 10:48 pm: | |
The way the H1-B program works does lend itself to abuse. However, I am pretty sure the H-1B cap for fiscal 2009 (starting October 2008) has already been reached, so I am not sure why they would be advertising these jobs for that purpose now. Other oddities: Craigslist is a bit informal as a way of advertising such positions. It is unusual that they wouldn't care what programming languages people had experience with. Usually ads trying to justify H1-B jobs have very specific requirements to make it harder for domestic workers to qualify. Programmers and project managers wouldn't normally be paid the same amount. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1559 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 12:31 am: | |
It astonishes me that some people are taking this more or less seriously. This has all the markings of something you'd read about on Snopes, but it's not widespread enough to show up there. |
Malcovemagnesia Member Username: Malcovemagnesia
Post Number: 98 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 4:16 am: | |
So you're thinking it's totally a joke posting and no legitimacy behind it at all? |
Russix Member Username: Russix
Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:02 am: | |
heres another one in Madison Heights for 8-10 hr http://detroit.craigslist.org/ sad/791563584.html, This one is a little gentler in that it atleast mentions they are looking for entry level, but its still pretty bad when you can make more money sweeping the floors for these companies than writing the code that runs their business. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3395 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:31 am: | |
Well, since there are no Fortune 500 companies based in Warren, I wonder how many besides GM have a presence there? Wal-Mart? lol |
Gogo Member Username: Gogo
Post Number: 1450 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:36 am: | |
quote:Well, since there are no Fortune 500 companies based in Warren, I wonder how many besides GM have a presence there? Wal-Mart? lol The Wal-Mart moved to Sterling Heights a year or so ago. |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 249 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:57 am: | |
jeez. when I worked as a programmer 5 years ago my starting pay was more than 2 times that amount and the only training I ever had was a VB class and a C++ class. I'm at the same company now in a different position but I'm pretty sure we still pay our programmers in that range, if not higher. I call BS...probably someone just trying to see how many responses they get to try to gauge how bad the unemployment situation in MI is |
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal
Post Number: 1341 Registered: 09-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:59 am: | |
They are collecting resumes to place people with other staffing firms. These guys must be getting started and don't want to pay for a Monster Account. |
Detroitpetanque Member Username: Detroitpetanque
Post Number: 139 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:20 am: | |
I think I've narrowed down who is offering this wacky job... |
Uptown Member Username: Uptown
Post Number: 12 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 9:44 am: | |
8-10/hour makes sense to me. I worked at Ford as a contractor making 10/hr for IT support and PC renewal. I worked a little over 30 hours a week, maybe more if I was lucky. No OT, no benefits, and I had to drive to the different Ford plants and offices on my own dime to perform IT functions. That lasted about 6 months before I found a real job. I had worked 4 years in the IT world at CompUSA and at different IT contracts before I went there. I had a Bachelors degree (Animation/Digital Media), so I had quite a bit of knowledge about computers. They got rid of the contract company that I was working for shortly after I left, and started paying $9/hour for the position. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 654 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:14 am: | |
"I worked at Ford as a contractor making 10/hr for IT support and PC renewal." Not to knock your previous employment but asking for someone with programming skills is a step or two above the skills needed to do IT support and PC renewal. I'm with the others who are calling this phony or some kind of resume scam. But I'm not sure I want programmers who think their skills are only worth $10/hr. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3396 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:18 am: | |
I'm surprised that no one has said anything about the company's mandatory 7 day work week. |
Lowell Moderator Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4942 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:19 am: | |
There's an old business saying about pricing, "If you don't ask for it you won't get it." The problem with an offering like that is that if anyone with those credentials accepted the position they would be gone at the first opportunity for a better position -- which means quickly and the employer is stuck spending money and time training another soon-to-fly-away employee. Henry Ford early on realized the expense resulting from low-pay turnover which is why he made his famous [and high paying for those days] five dollar a day offering. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 657 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 10:24 am: | |
"I worked at Ford as a contractor making 10/hr for IT support and PC renewal." Not to knock your previous employment but asking for someone with programming skills is a step or two above the skills needed to do IT support and PC renewal. I'm with the others who are calling this phony or some kind of resume scam. But I'm not sure I want programmers who think their skills are only worth $10/hr. |
Uptown Member Username: Uptown
Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:20 pm: | |
I can understand your view Novine, but considering that I was constantly asked by programmers on how to do their job, I can see where this posting may be legit. Being in IT support requires a lot of hands on knowledge, to know both hardware and software. A lot of programmers have a degree and the experience, but just managed to slum their way through the years hanging on. There is such a glut of programmers, just like IT technicians. This is the market right now. After the .com bust, the wide array of high paying IT/Programming jobs went out the window. I'm not saying that this particular article is fake, but when you have a tight market for programmers, people take the jobs that they can get. My fellow contractors at Ford had the experience, had the degrees in Computer Science, and they were working right along side me because there was nowhere else to go. And Lowell is correct. The first phonecall for a higher paying job, I was gone. But I was able to pad my resume by being in the field, instead of sitting at home doing nothing. The way that programming and IT support goes, software and technology will pass you by. (Message edited by Uptown on August 13, 2008) |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8165 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:26 pm: | |
quote:There is such a glut of programmers, just like IT technicians. I'm not sure this is an actual reason, but when I was in school it was right in that time where everybody was saying "GO INTO COMPUTERS! GO INTO COMPUTERS, COMPUTERS ARE THE FUTURE", so all the kids went into "computers". (That's what these jobs all used to be called back then, remember? What do you do? I'm in "computers".) Nobody was saying GO INTO ACCOUNTING! ACCOUNTING IS WHERE IT'S AT! Yet accountants can find jobs. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1561 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:28 pm: | |
I'd be astonished if this is in any way legitimate. Let's look at some facts: 1. This purports to be from a Fortune 500 company. 2. The grammar and capitalization are completely amateurish. (A typical hiring manager at a legitimate Fortune 500 company, for instance, would know that "Warren" is capitalized and "tie" is not.) 3. No legitimate big company will require non management employees to work a 7 x 10 shift because the overtime would be enormous. A small company might be able to slide under the radar and not pay overtime, but a big company could never get away with it. 4. Fortune 500 companies ordinarily use customary means to advertise for positions, such as trade magazines and Monster. I would not expect such a company to post this sort of nonsense on Craigslist. I'm surprised how much discussion is going on regarding what appears to me an obvious hoax or joke. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1562 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:31 pm: | |
By the way there is not a glut of programmers; there is a critical shortage of people with programming skills in the US. This is very well documented and articles about this regularly appear in trade magazines. In metro Detroit there is a shortage of nearly every kind of job because our one-industry local economy is in a memorable tailspin, but that's just a local phenomenon. I know several people who live in the Detroit, work in the computer business, and make $50,000 to $80,000 a year, and some of them work remotely for companies that have no metro Detroit presence. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8167 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:34 pm: | |
Professor, programmers I've talked to make it sound like they are often treated as dispensable. Often only hired on contract, and then ditched after a specific project is completed. They've said finding a stable full time position with benefits can be difficult. |
Uptown Member Username: Uptown
Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:36 pm: | |
Exactly, the market here is not good for anyone. I am merely explaining my experiences in the IT industry here in the Metro Detroit area. My friend got a computer programming degree from U of M in 2003, and he had to do the "paid intern" wage of $10/hour. Around here, with jobs being so tight for anyone, this is what you have to do. So this job posting may net a few people who simply want to work instead of sitting home waiting for that big opportunity. |
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1563 Registered: 12-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 1:39 pm: | |
It's still a hoax. Read the clues. Here: someone check into it and find out exactly which "Fortune 500" company posted, and verify it's real. There's a contact e-mail so it shouldn't be difficult. I haven't the inclination because I'm completely convinced it's BS. If you find otherwise, let us know and I'll stand corrected. |
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 8168 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 2:01 pm: | |
The posting has been removed. |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2427 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 2:12 pm: | |
Sure there is a glut of programmers, just there is a glut of web designers as well. Uptown, which building at Ford did you work at? |
Greebomusic Member Username: Greebomusic
Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 2:28 pm: | |
"8-10/hour makes sense to me. I worked at Ford as a contractor making 10/hr for IT support and PC renewal." Uptown: Working for a (the) company that contracts to Ford and runs the PC Renewal Team as well as first and second level support... PC Renewal is not much more than the team that moves and sets up PCs (yes, possible formatting and software installation "could" happen). I started in a call center and made more than $10 to start 11 years ago (and it's the entry level position below PC Renewal). Went on to deskside support and now I'm a network administrator. I'd really love to know who you worked for at $10 an hour. (Message edited by greebomusic on August 13, 2008) |
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 2104 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 2:55 pm: | |
there are all kinds of employers who take advantage of their employees in this rough time. I know of a few businesses downtown who seem to have issues paying their employees. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 3399 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 3:10 pm: | |
quote:4. Fortune 500 companies ordinarily use customary means to advertise for positions, such as trade magazines and Monster. I would not expect such a company to post this sort of nonsense on Craigslist. Nah, I've come across some Fortune 500 listings on Craigslist that I know were legit because I actually interviewed with them. |
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow
Post Number: 79 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 3:10 pm: | |
That's what I struggle with, is it better to sit at home and do nothing while you wait for the perfect - or nearly perfect - opportunity? Or should you take whatever you can get, just so you stay active and at least put gas in your car? I've been told both. If you take something that's embarrassingly inadequate, then other employers will not respect you and will only offer you something around the same wage. And still some people say, it looks better to at least stay working. I tend to lean toward the belief that loaning yourself out for less than you deserve is actually lowering your value, so as long as I can still function in my unemployed state, I'm hanging on for a decent offer. If I get in survival mode though, I may feel differently. But knowing me, if I'm in a low paying job, the first time they piss me off, I'll be grabbing my purse and out the door because they didn't deserve me anyway, LOL. My tolerance meter would be way too low for drama if you're not paying me top dollar. To the ad, there's been a lot of complaints lately about people putting phony ads on Craig's List to just get your information for other purposes, so this could have been one of those, which is why it was pulled. But also, we know that employers will pay what they can get away with, esp if they're contract agencies - if they can give you only $10 out of their $50, then they're happy. If you don't mind, they don't mind. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 660 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 5:08 pm: | |
You can't work at the Regal Beagle? |
Uptown Member Username: Uptown
Post Number: 15 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 5:53 pm: | |
_sj_... I worked pretty much at most, if not all of the Ford automotive plants and offices in the Metro area. All the Dearborn office locations, Rouge, Wixom, Wayne Assembly, etc. I had a beatup Ford Escort, which was good on gas mileage. I was a contractor through Manpower, contracted to Tech Team, who was contracted by Ford for IT Support. This was from September 04-February 05. We essentially joked that we were working unemployed. Which was true, since my unemployment checks were just as much as my paystubs from Manpower. Greebomusic, it would've been great if all I had to do was just setup the PCs. But at Ford, I had to backup the user's data, restore the data, install all their previous software & configure it, map their network drives and printers, walk the user through Windows XP and Office XP (we did hardware upgrade as well as Operating System upgrade/Office upgrade). Believe me, Ford couldn't keep all the good techs around for too long. Adding that you worked IT @ Ford was good on the resume. Believe me, that's what gave me the "experience" to get my current position with HP. Chrissy_snow, you are correct. Some people have differing views on sitting on the sidelines vs. working cheap. In the IT world, hardware and software will blow by you if you sit out waiting. IT positions generally like to see you working, even if it is crap. The companies that pay crap know they will get crap workers, or people that will leave at the moment a higher paying job comes around. That is simply the cost of doing business. Most companies view IT or programmers as a necessary evil anyway, so they do not put much value into hiring quality people. |
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow
Post Number: 83 Registered: 07-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 6:06 pm: | |
Ah, Manpower, that explains it. My experience has been that Manpower and Kelly still pay the absolute lowest most despicable wages out of all of the contractors in Michigan. They pay as if they're still only booking temp clerks and typists back in the 80s. I remember walking out of a Kelly office years ago because I had a professional resume and references and they were making me take all of these simple nitpicking office tests, then telling me about positions that paid 1/3 of what I was used to. I just left my papers on the desk and walked out because my time was too valuable to even engage them any longer. Of course, that was before our current recession, LOL, but still, those companies are bottom of the barrel. Maybe because they've gone global and their overhead is higher than the smaller job shops? |
Uptown Member Username: Uptown
Post Number: 16 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 6:21 pm: | |
Chrissy_snow, ironically Kelly was the contractor that Tech Team used before ManPower came along. After the Manpower contract was up, they went back to them. Crap begets crap it seems. Manpower was paying too much. Kelly started paying $9/hour. The good techs that were left were Manpower. Once the contract was up, they were let go. Manpower wouldn't allow the techs to switch over, and had to wait 6 months before they could get back into IT support at Ford. This was regardless of if they went to a different level of support. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1976 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 - 8:45 pm: | |
I WISH I got $10/hr in my first post-collegiate job. And that was 3 years ago. Not really what I was expecting after spending 4 years in college. I soon got an offer to relocate and do essentially the same job for literally double the salary. There wasn't much thinking involved. The answer was yes. |
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 259 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 5:00 am: | |
I emailed it as if I was interested requesting more information before I sent a resume. Used a throw away address. Never got a response. |
Greebomusic Member Username: Greebomusic
Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2008
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 7:43 am: | |
Uptown: Makes more sense now! By no means was I trying to demean your position. We have Ford PC Renewal team members sub here for extra project work. I work directly for Tech Team. I had no idea they subcontracted our contract. My friends over there have never mentioned it. Sorry you've had a lousy start to the field. Guess I lucked out as I never went to school for this. I've learned as I went... and so far I've learned a ton (and TTG pays for the training!). Where are you at in HP (which use to be a TTG contract in the past)? (Message edited by greebomusic on August 14, 2008) |
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad
Post Number: 245 Registered: 02-2006
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 7:53 am: | |
Tell me all about the benefits of that fantastic "Global Economy" again. So many people in pursuit of crap bought from Japan, China and India but no guilt about supporting a culture of lying about currency, total disregard for the environment or sweat shop labor. Yes sir, they buy quality......my ass. |
Publicmsu Member Username: Publicmsu
Post Number: 737 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 8:04 am: | |
Programmers in India make more than this. And from a quality standpoint, there's none. Some of the worst I've ever seen. This will eventually come back to bite companies in the ass. |
Uptown Member Username: Uptown
Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 9:46 am: | |
Greebomusic: No offense taken! Haha, believe me, we made plenty of remarks about how TTG/Manpower ran the PC Renewal/Support team at Ford. I have plenty of stories to tell about it. I could write a comic strip about it (which many people have suggested once I tell them all the crazy stuff that went on). I lucked out bigtime myself. I self taught myself in regards to IT support while working at CompUSA to pay my way through college. I graduated from CCS downtown, got a Bachelors in Animation. But the market was super dry for animators anywhere in the world (besides India), so I decided to go into IT. I work for HP on the Blue Cross/Blue Shield contract. We support all aspects of HP equipment (printers, servers, Desktops/Laptops. All software loaded on the PCs by BCBSM I troubleshoot). Great job, good perks. And in a strange twist of irony, I work directly across the street from the Tech Team offices out in Southfield. |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2430 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, August 14, 2008 - 10:45 am: | |
I spent a few days over at Lundy Parkway, gotta love the security there, you needed a security escort, but once inside you had free reign as long as you crossed upstairs and did not enter the downstairs lobby. Of course my time there was wasted and very expensive to Ford as the workers didn't know anything about the servers they were working on nor the software installed on their workstations. Oh and by the way can you please tell HP to fix their low end printers which have issues with their firmware and fonts. |