  Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1434 Registered: 03-2008 |
I came across this, and thought that some of you guys might be interested in reading it. Could any of this apply to Detroit? Link: http://www.policy.rutgers.edu/ faculty/pucher/Irresistible.pd f | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 935 Registered: 06-2005 |
I can only say this. I am still living in Southern Germany and do not have a car. I cycle daily to and from work, take the train to large cities and take my bike, if necessary. Bike riding in large and small cities in Germany is very easy and the options are many for keeping on safe routes and in many cases, riding my bike is faster than driving. When I move back to Detroit, shortly, I most likely will NOT ride my bike, even around midtown, because I simply do not feel safe. By safe, I mean that cars will pay attention to me driving on the road AND safe that after running into the store for 10 or 15 minutes that my bike will still be locked where I left it or not vandelized. This is my personal feeling, but I think many people have similar opinion. PERHAPS, if bike lanes were instituted and driving schools made big efforts to teach drivers to look out for bikers AND there were more and convinient locking places for bikes, then I would consider riding more. It would take a big effort on the residents side to get the City to institute these types of improvements to make bikeriding safer in the City. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 1164 Registered: 10-2003 |
DD, I feel safer riding in Detroit than the burbs. Those people drive like fucktards. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 5216 Registered: 02-2004 |
There has to be greater awareness of cyclists (and pedestrians) in this area. I walk and cycle regularly in Royal Oak and people simply do not look for you, they stop for lights way past the crosswalk, and barrel out of parking lots and structures without a single thought. I know some cyclists act like that too, but I'll tangle with a bike sooner than an SUV. Better education and higher penalties should be standard here. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 936 Registered: 06-2005 |
Michigan is already a pedestrian state... but you wouldn't know it... except in Ann Arbor and then only in the downtown area. Toolbox, I do agree with you that riding around in the downtown/midtown areas is much safer than in the burbs, but still not what I have become used to in Germany. Accidents happen here, too, but really EVERYone driving is looking to be sure. Even in places like Munich which are quite pedestrian and bicycle friendly... Peds stay in walking zones, but had better stay OUT of the cycle zone... you'll definitely get side swiped and screamed at!••• All of this said, if there is a movement to get Cycle traffic better recognized in the City, you can count me in. | ||
Ypsirocks Member Username: Ypsirocks Post Number: 37 Registered: 03-2004 |
This is one of the main reasons I couldn't move back to Michigan. I ride my bike everywhere in Oakland, CA. Not to mention if I leave enough time, I can ride into the Oakland Hills and still be in Alameda in time for work. I would much rather ride in Detroit than in the burbs. While the trail system is good, aren't you limited on how fast you can ride? Two additional questions: I would love to rent a decent road bike (56-57cm) while I am in Michigan next week. Any ideas? I will be staying out in the burbs would guess I will be riding paths early in the morning. I know on one of these trips back to Michigan I am going to find that one of a kind road bike at garage sale that some old codger can't ride anymore (and paid an arm and a leg for). Any treasure troves of bikes in Michigan? I went to the shop on Livernois and didn't find much. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 1165 Registered: 10-2003 |
See John at Continential Bike Shop on John R in Hazel Park, 248-545-1225. He probably has a few rental units. | ||
Russix Member Username: Russix Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2006 |
^^^"I feel safer riding in Detroit than the burbs. Those people drive like fucktards." I'll second that, when I cross the City Limits, I find a SMART bus stop and wait. | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 415 Registered: 04-2006 |
Let's not pretend that people in Detroit don't also "drive like fucktards." This I've seen with my own eyes for many years. I ride my bike in city and suburb, and it's dangerous no matter where you go. But designated bike lanes sure are helpful. (Hint, hint.) Well, at least Belle Isle has some. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2007 |
I think I've been seeing many more bike riders recently. Perhaps drivers will become accustomed to them. A lot of the older suburbs are OK to ride in, because you can ride the side streets. It is the places that are all cul-de-sacs that tend to be bad, because there is no choice but to ride on main arteries. The edge-of-road type bike lanes I've seen around here are useless, and probably harmful, but the types of measures discussed in the article would be great. I especially liked the bicycle streets, the advanced green for cyclists, and the right-turn cut through. Those would be big improvements, and there isn't any reason you couldn't have them in Detroit--the bicycle streets in particular seem easy--Detroit has way more streets than it needs to move traffic around, so you could designate some bicycle streets without causing any major problems. Enforcement would be a problem, as it always is in Detroit, but I expect that bollards, partial blockages, alternating one-way directions for cars, etc. could make this work. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1548 Registered: 12-2006 |
Bike lanes work well when they're properly designed and implemented. I haven't seen anywhere in metro Detroit where they've been done correctly in sufficient quantity to enable a bicyclist to actually get around, except one small part of Ferndale. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 567 Registered: 04-2004 |
Completely agree Toolbox. Anyway, I get everywhere on my bike. I have a truck, but drive it maybe once every two weeks. It's good when I need to haul something or making a long distance trip (at the same time bringing the bike along). | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 1609 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ypsirocks, I used to live in West Oakland. Id love to get back there someday to see what my hood looks like. Check out Back Ally Bikes on Cass. Im sure you should be able to find them online and hook something up for yourself. If your riding here in the D when your in town we should hook up. I also used to live in Ypsi. We prob. have a lot in common. matthewdavisy2 at netscape dot net | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1641 Registered: 07-2007 |
haha, those f-tards sure make cycling irresistible around town. | ||
Jita1 Member Username: Jita1 Post Number: 20 Registered: 08-2008 |
I work in Ann Arbor and see many bike trails. I live too far from A squared to ride a bike though. It would be nice if I could, saving a small fortune. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 2233 Registered: 05-2005 |
the wheelhouse on the riverfront has a couple vintage road bikes for rent too www.wheelhousedetroit.com i feel more comfortable riding in the city myself, if only because most city streets are nowhere near capacity traffic-wise so there's plenty of room in the street. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 495 Registered: 03-2008 |
Okay..does anyone actually know what the law is in regards to bicycles on the road in Michigan? I used to ride to/from work when I was in my teens and early twenties, and back then the deal was that cyclists were entitled to the two feet of road at the righthand side of the lane nearest the curb, and were to be riding in the same direction as traffic flow, obeying all the same laws and traffic control devices that cars did. I still ride, but strictly for leisure..and nowadays people who ride all seem to have their own version of the rules. One guy seemed to think that "bikes have as much right to the (whole) road as cars," which just seems ludicrous, unless cyclists are now able keep up with traffic. Another dude insisted that riding AGAINST the flow of traffic was safer..sorta made me wonder what he did when he encountered another cyclist going WITH the flow, though. I see roadbikes in the left turn lanes all the time..I was taught that cyclists are the same as pedestrians from a legal standpoint, so they are to make their turns & crossings corner-to-corner, one street at a time on the green light. What's right? What's legal? It's fairly obvious what's SAFE, but that doesn't seem to enter the equation for many of the riders I interact with.. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1555 Registered: 12-2006 |
Bicycles are legally road vehicles, entitled to the use of the road just as any other vehicle, and subject to the same rules. To be specific, and this is from the Motor Vehicle code: 257.657: Each person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, or moped or operating a low-speed vehicle upon a roadway has all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to the provisions of this chapter which by their nature do not have application. 257.660(a): A person operating a bicycle upon a highway or street at less than the existing speed of traffic shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except as follows: (a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction. (b) When preparing to turn left. (c) When conditions make the right-hand edge of the roadway unsafe or reasonably unusable by bicycles, including, but not limited to, surface hazards, an uneven roadway surface, drain openings, debris, parked or moving vehicles or bicycles, pedestrians, animals, or other obstacles, or if the lane is too narrow to permit a vehicle to safely overtake and pass a bicycle. (d) When operating a bicycle in a lane in which the traffic is turning right but the individual intends to go straight through the intersection. (e) When operating a bicycle upon a 1-way highway or street that has 2 or more marked traffic lanes, in which case the individual may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of that roadway as practicable. That's most of it; there's a little bit more but those are the major features of the law. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 645 Registered: 06-2005 |
As far as I know, there's never been a 2 foot rule for bicyclists. That may have been someones recommendation, but not the law. Sometimes it is safer for bicyclists to take a lane to prevent cars from passing in an unsafe manner. That's why we updated state law in 2004 to add the exceptions Professor Scott has posted. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13738 Registered: 12-2003 |
I rode and bussed out to Royal Oak for my errands today, after spending a week in Chicago...walking nearly EVERYWHERE there since their traffic congestion is tenfold worse since my last real time there ten years ago. Had the first bus driver chide me for being ROUGH with the front rack, encouraging me to not bend the equipment (don't know my own strength, apparently)...but she was great when I asked a few questions. Biked between the Verizon store at 13.5 mile and Trader Joe's at 11.5 mile for the stuff I can't find in Eastern Market, then down to a friend's in Pleasant Ridge to pick up a VIP invite to a party for DreamCruise...and while passing the zoo/I-696 caught up with a fellow who'd ridden all the way from Grosse Pointe...for leisure! We had a nice chat for a half mile...come to think of it I had another nice chat with another stranger on the bus out...and I realized that I may NEVER stop biking. It makes neighbors of everyone, when we don't hide behind horsepower and safety glass...I'm really, really beginning to love these newfound travel modes...and laugh deeply at the price of gasoline. (you'll be happy to know, Fishtoes, that I'm becoming less and less the outlaw...at least on major thoroughfares...) It was a total blast to survey the whole Woodward scene in preparation for this weekend's Dream Cruise...the serious horsepower heads are already out there burning and primping...and making sure their seats are secure. The mall at 13 and Woodward is full of partiers already. Then I got downtown with only ONE fare and transfer...total travel cost $1.75...and the bus dropped me at Campus Martius where I could run into the Penobscot Post Office, then take a leisurely ride down the RiverWalk before heading home. What a great day cycling in the city... Cheers | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 13739 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, and I agree with Oldredfordette wholeheartedly, the number of people who completely disregarded cross-walks was simply unbelievable if I hadn't witnessed it with mine own eyes. The ONLY driver who apologized was the poor lady at Mack and Woodward who couldn't complete her left turn due to the traffic...she was so sweet, I went on and on letting her know she wasn't to blame. But I think a measure of ol' Gallagher's justice should suffice, each biker gets a dartgun with 'Asshole flags' to shoot...when a driver collects enough of them, they get a ticket for driving like an asshole. Perhaps some sort of ad campaign showing them how bad it feels to run over an innocent cyclist is in order...it really, really is epidemic. A fucktard epidemic...but they would be the ones that survive their own stupidity, completely contrary to Darwin. More I think about this, the more serious it truly is... | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1557 Registered: 12-2006 |
Would this be a good thread for someone to plug the Blue Water Ramble, part of which will be traveling on future U. S. Bike Route 20? I'm not in the loop enough to put in the plug; I'm just suggesting someone do it here. |
