  Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 281 Registered: 03-2008 |
The "wicked weather" thread got me wondering. Does anyone else collect their roof run-off during storms? I built a system a little over a year ago that collects/stores a bit over 300 gallons, have been using it to water my lawn, wash the cars/bikes, and flush the toilets ever since..seems silly to let it just run down the spout when the dang stuff is so expensive these days. I've got a fairly small house, and I only utilize half of the roofs potential, but my barrels have yet to be empty in the past year. So, I was just wondering, am I the only one, or are there any other folks who are tinkering with stuff like this? Be sorta nice to compare notes.. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 7469 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wow Zrx that is an awesome idea. What exactly is the system you created like? | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6660 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'd like to hear more too... We've built and installed some rain barrels this year. How do you get enough pressure to wash your cars with it? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 7470 Registered: 10-2003 |
I particularly want to hear about the lawn watering. I'd love to keep my lawn watered, but don't like wasting the water/money. If there was a way to do it with rain water that would be fantastic. | ||
Ltdave Member Username: Ltdave Post Number: 158 Registered: 09-2006 |
my inlaws have done this for years and weve got a similar set-up underway... ive not had to water the lawn but 3 times this year because of the rain, not because im redistributing run-off... i dont wash my cars very often so thats not an issue but for watering the plants when the rain doesnt come, they work superbly... get some 55gal plastic drums (you can get nice looking drums, not the bright blue that are re-used) and place them under your downspout. you may need to shorten the downspout somewhat. i place the barrels on some stacked landscape timbers. the barrels have a sillcock in the bottom and you just hook your hose to it and use it as if it were attached to the house... | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 554 Registered: 02-2007 |
Me too! I am looking to water the garden with rain barrels and hooking them up to pvc piping with weep holes in the bottom of the piping. I just dont think I will get enough water from the barrels being out in the open. I have two connected to the garage and use it for the grass and home garden. Would love to get it to the community garden. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 580 Registered: 06-2005 |
My car's getting washed by rainwater as I type!  | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 282 Registered: 03-2008 |
Okay..here's the simple answer: I've got six 55 gallon barrels mounted to collect roof runoff from the back half of my home. They are plumbed to both of my toilets thru an ordinary hose bib which passes thru the foundation, as well as to an external rack-mounted hose bib to allow outdoor water usage. Here comes the annoyingly complex answer(s). Pressure is fairly simple. First, my three primary collection barrels are mounted on a "deck" that brings 'em to about a foot below my eaves (one storey house, about nine-ish feet from top of barrels to ground), as I needed sufficient pressure to supply the toilet on the ground floor. Height-above-ground is providing (barely) sufficient pressure to keep both my toilets fed, (the toilet valves are still a work in progress..they work, but I wouldn't foist 'em on the general public just yet) and I have a second hose-bib installed on the "deck" which is plenty sufficient for most outdoor uses. You get a good strong stream, but not a water-jet, yanno? Not city-water pressure, but good enough for a soaker-hose and hand washing the car. Below the three primary barrels are three more barrels which collect the run-off when the top three are filled to overflowing.. Both sets of barrels are daisy-chained together at the base with hose and individual shut-off valves so any one barrel can be isolated for maintenance. Each of the barrels (other than the first in line, which has a large screened hole for the downspout) needed a vent at the top to allow air to "breathe" as they fill & drain from the bottom. I used 1/4" NPT male air hose fittings for the vents, threaded into holes drilled in the plastic barrels..since I've already got a regulated source of pressurized air (compressor in the garage or a portable air tank) I can simply isolate a given barrel by closing off it's mates valves, then pressurize the isolated barrel by plugging in a compressed air line to the vent. Doing this allows me to A) drive the water from the "overflow" barrels back up to the gutter to replenish the "primary" barrels during dry spells, and B) deliver water to a garden hose at pretty much any pressure desired. Oh yeah..since I know SOMEONE'S gonna ask..total cost is somewhere around 150-200 dollars at this point, including cost of barrels, hose, hose bibs, lumber, cinderblocks, etc.. On the upside, I haven't used city water to flush my toilets in over a year. On the downside, rainwater is sort of "tea" colored, so your toilet bowls always get second glances.. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 283 Registered: 03-2008 |
Cub, drop me a line at zxrdoug-AT-sbcglobal-DOT-net. We can probably build something cheaply that'll do ya good. I was thinking of your garden when I typed this post. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 301 Registered: 03-2008 |
See? I knew all the techno-crap would kill this thread.. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 998 Registered: 03-2008 |
Zrx_doug... Awesome! | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1564 Registered: 12-2003 |
Great Doug... Do any professionals install these? The rain barrels I guess anyone could do, but I mean the rest of it ... | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 623 Registered: 02-2007 |
My neighbors (who are quite elderly) have rain barrels catching rainwater on their deck. They use it for watering flowers, washing cars, etc. We used to laugh (to ourselves) thinking how cheap they were but now realize how innovative the idea is. One neighbor also goes to the street after a rain and shovels the water back onto the lawn after a hard rain. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 305 Registered: 03-2008 |
Nobody that I know of is installing these things..but really, it's dead-simple to do. If you google-search "rain barrel" you'll find a ton of ideas..that's what happened to me..I was just looking to set up a conventional barrel, and I ran across some guy in Seattle who used it for a basement toilet supply..I figured I could go that one better, and here I am.. The barrels I use are reclaimed car wash soap drums..they come with two threaded bungs in the top, and each of the bungs has a plug which accepts standard threaded plumbing fixtures. To use the barrels, you just place them upside down with the fittings of your choice (now on the bottom), then cut a hole for your spout to drain into at the "top" (formerly the bottom) of the barrel. Use some kind of funnel to direct the water in, and some firm screening to filter out leaves & keep the mosquitos from using it for a breeding ground. From there on out, it's simply a matter of connecting as many barrels as you wish using garden hose to connect the fittings installed at the bottom. Valves, tee fittings, clamps, and all the other hardware you might need are in the garden hose aisle at Home Depot or Lowes. For toilet plumbing, you need to be sure that you install an anti-backflow valve in your city water line to keep rainwater from entering the system in the event of a city water pressure failure, and you need to cobble up some form of low pressure fill-valve for your rainwater supply to the toilet tank. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions I can..this is really a money-saver, and it's good for both the environment AND our overloaded storm drains, so you can get that nice warm fuzzy feeling while you're saving a little cash.. Oh yeah..one little thing. Bear in mind that a 55 gallon drum full of water is gonna weigh over 500 pounds, so build any racks accordingly strong, and make sure the ground you set up on will safely support your design as well. I used all 2x4 treated lumber & cinder blocks for my stuff, and I built on about 6" centers to prevent sagging. (Message edited by ZRX Doug on July 04, 2008) | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 878 Registered: 02-2007 |
Interesting approach, Doug. I'm guessing, though, that your water is brown because your system is harboring bacteria, algae, etc. An issue with re-use of roof-collected rainwater is contamination with the micro aggregate common to asphalt shingles. I'd not have a problem using this water for sewage or irrigation, but I'b be afraid to use it for drinking and washing vehicles. I have no links to share, but "rain gardens" with native plants are an alternative for those who don't want to be saddled with supporting an unorthodox (but cool) system like Doug's. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1565 Registered: 12-2003 |
I wonder if a pump or adding oxygen would keep the water purer? I Googled it and from reading, I wouldn't use it as drinking water but such water is fine for watering plants and washing your car. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 1091 Registered: 11-2003 |
They sell larger tanks at places like TSC (Tractor Supply Company), that would be easier, safer and cheaper....you can bury it in the backyard (feed your downspout directly into it) and hook up a small electric pump. Burying it in the ground will definitely keep it colder and cleaner. | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 369 Registered: 06-2006 |
The point of collecting the water in a barrel is to use it. If you use the water to the bottom of the barrel, it doesn't sour. I would imagine that someone using it to flush their toilets would go thru a large amount of water in a weeks time. The problem I have with my barrel is the misquito population reproducing itself. I tried olive oil. Didn't work. It was suppose to "seal" to top of the water to keep out the females. I am going to try ammonia next. A small amount would actually be good for the plants. I hate misquitoes, but they sure love me! Right now, there is a stringer of 10 catfish in ours. I have to use the water up today-to get rid of the smell after he cleans them. It worked great! He ran a small amount of water into it over night to keep them cool and alive! | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1566 Registered: 12-2003 |
That's why I'd get a commercially-made rain barrel where it's covered except for where you attach the downspout -- mosquitos. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 461 Registered: 10-2006 |
I would suggest using 3 progressively finer screens about an inch apart from one another. Install and overflow valve so the water never goes over the top of the finest screen. This should keep the mosquitoes out as long as the screens fit snugly to the edges for the drum. You can also look into fish tank filers, charcoal filters and sand/silica pool filters that you can rig up to the downspout before the water enters the holding tank to keep out micro organisms and keep the water more fresh. | ||
7andkelly Member Username: 7andkelly Post Number: 913 Registered: 04-2008 |
Zrx_doug, I just love what you've done with your house! These are great ideas! Thanks for sharing. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 307 Registered: 03-2008 |
The brownish tint is just tannin, guys..it's what comes of draining water thru elderly gutters with bits of leaf in 'em. I'd go for the bacteria argument if the water changed color over time, but it's this shade as soon as it hits the barrel. No smell or anything, just a light "tea-like" tint. If the water is allowed to stagnate, yeah, it gets pretty ugly..but about a 1/4 cup of bleach per fifty-five gallon drum does a fine job of killing off the critters and clearing the water up. I like the idea of an underground tank, but the cost of a commercial tank and running the electric pump sort of kills the whole money saving point. | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 434 Registered: 08-2007 |
i have been thinking about catching my rain water since i got my house, pretty much to save on my water bill and keep my garden green. i left a carnival sized pitcher used for beer in my backyard, it was green and slimey in a week, i need to read up on this. My Grandpa did this, knew about catching rain water since i was 4yrs old, now time to put my thoughts to work. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 308 Registered: 03-2008 |
Mama J, I just noticed your post. What you can do to keep the skeeters out is this: Cut two squares of chicken wire to a size adequate to cover your barrel opening. Cut a third square of conventional window screen the same size. Lay one square of chicken wire down, then lay the window screen on top of that. Finally, lay the second square of chicken wire over these at a 45 degree angle to the first screen so you end up with an eight pointed star, sandwiching the window screening and creating a solid support structure. Sew the sandwiched screens together by lacing mechanic's wire thru all three layers, then place the assembled sandwich over your barrel opening. Lastly, fold the points of the "star" down around the sides of the barrel and form the remainder of the screen as tightly around the edge as you can. This will filter debris from your water and keep out insects, and should cost under ten bucks for the whole shebang at the local hardware store. I've been using a smaller version of this on my setup, and it's worked fine. | ||
Strathcona Member Username: Strathcona Post Number: 33 Registered: 03-2008 |
Grassfire Rainbarrel (Grassfire LLC)--Supply and install rainbarrels in Southeastern Michigan. I have the phone number, 248.909.1188 I am not affiliated with this company. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 1375 Registered: 01-2007 |
All this rain water talk got me thinking about my own water (and sewerage) saving practice. When ever possible, when I have to take a leak, I do so out doors. I know it is a lot easier for guys to do so, but I'd like to do a (thread hijack) survey: how many of us here pee outside? How often? Male or other? I average over twice a day. How 'bout the rest of you? | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 565 Registered: 02-2007 |
WTF?LOL | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1013 Registered: 03-2008 |
I deleted this post. After some thought, I decided this story didn't need to be posted on DetroitYES.com. Please ignore or forget. Thank you! (Message edited by sean_of_detroit on July 05, 2008) | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 1015 Registered: 03-2008 |
If you want to save water, you can always build an out house, or a waterless toilet. Michigan does not have a water problem last I checked? While it might sound like I'm close minded about this, using a water and sewage treatment system came about (and remains) because of health reasons. It is true that they did not always exist. In a city, they are necessary, and part of the social contracts. You can argue many social constraints in a society, but this is not one of them. Water is just so abundant around here. Using water saves landfill space, and paper. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 882 Registered: 02-2007 |
Pardon the thread jack - Doug: how dirty are your gutters? Your run-off must be pushing through a lot of leaves to collect as brown/tea. Unless the brown commode isn't a problem I'd just clean the gutters and then call it a day. Re: mosquitos... Depending upon your setup and planned use you can use feeder goldfish to eat the larvae. Backyard pond-keepers do this and never see a bug. As a mechanical solution you might just try a spring-loaded baffle on the in-flow. Finally: a good-natured finger for the eye of the environmentalists... if you're in the City or inner ring you should be saving your run-off. We suburbanites with big yards and gutters that don't run to storm drains are naturally directing rain back to the water table. Dense living with lots of concrete leads to run-off which sucks for waste water treatment and it deprives tyhe water table. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 312 Registered: 03-2008 |
Craig, the gutters are actually pretty clean now..but when I initially set this thing up there were LOTS of bits and the usual sediment along the base..much of this ended up getting filtered into the catch barrel thru the screen before I caught on.. It was initially VERY dark water..after almost a year of doing this and keeping stuff clean, I've ended up with water that looks clear if you were to hold it up to the light in a glass..it's just got a faint brownish tint that's visible clearly when it's in a white commode. I've come to the conclusion this is simply what unfiltered rainwater looks like once it's been run across shingles & thru gutters..like I said, no bad smells or anything..and if the water does stagnate and start looking/smelling ugly, a little bleach goes a long way. It really doesn't bug me..I'm not planning on drinking it, and it generally looks a darned sight nastier by the time I'm ready to flush it, ya know? It does get odd looks from the more delicate folks who see it, though.. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 883 Registered: 02-2007 |
Sound like you have a good system going there, Doug. Still not sure that I'd trust it with my cars, but that's just me. Hard for me to say re: the "tanin" in your water. If it ain't a problem then it ain't a problem. Having worked with gutters & rain water it sounds like there's some variable at play that I cannot see because I've only seen brown/cloudy water in streams and in poorly circulated garden ponds (where water sits all season long). Care to estimate how many times each day you're flushing? Just curious - I have a big household, about 18 squares of roof, and five downspouts (damned perpendicular peak over the garage). Don't think that I could do what you've done. Re: supply... do you have an easy way to switch back to "city" in case your reservoirs run dry? I'd think that you could make a Rube Goldberg valve to accomodate a switch from gravity to municipal pressures. One last question: what do you do in the winter? You're in Detroit, right? Even with these mild winters of late your supply must be freezing over. Last, last question: any favorite sites for using solar to heat water for the house? A buddy is using 300' of black hose and 1/8 horse circulator pump to heat a pool, but I've not yet seen or thought of anything to move that power into the house. | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 956 Registered: 08-2005 |
def will be doing a full on reclamation system on my next house here in Charlotte (NC)...they are in a drought down here. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 315 Registered: 03-2008 |
Washing the car with sandpaper. I forgot to mention that the silt & grit from the roof ends up trapped in the first barrel in the chain, for the most part..most particles are separated out before water is drawn from the third barrel in line, which is also equipped with a 2" riser on the drain tube so it doesn't draw from the floor of the barrel, which keeps me from worrying about scratching the car or clogging the toilet valve. City water vs rain water. I'm actually running two separate fill valves in both of my toilets..the city water is still hooked up at all times..in case of a dry spell all I've got to do is open the shut-off valve. In my case it was fairly easy to pull off using two fill valves, as the toilet tanks that were in the house when I purchased it are made of plastic and are "ambidextrous" when it comes to fill valve location..all I had to do was cut out the opening on the unused side and install the rainwater system..it'd be somewhat harder to pull off with a conventional porcelain tank..the guy who inspired me to try this was using a single inlet with "Y" selector valve below the tank, but he was going nuts trying to make the fill valve work at both pressure levels. Tannin, or whatever it is. The water's not "cloudy," it's actually very clear..just got a faint yellowish/brownish tint, like if ya put a single used tea bag in a ten gallon jug..barely there, until you pour it into a white container. Water usage. I live alone, and really haven't got a clue how many flushes per day..maybe three to five on the average? I suspect I'd never have full barrels if there were kids in the house..probably need a reservoir the size of a swimming pool for a Brady Bunch sized family.. FWIW, the roof section that supplies my run-off water is only about 12'x 30'..I never would have thought it'd produce this much water, but in a heavy storm like the ones we've been having lately, it'll easily fill the three main barrels from dead-empty to overflowing in around twenty minutes. Here's a calculator to give you an idea of what your roof area will yield. http://www.csgnetwork.com/rwco llectioncalc.html Remember to measure the "footprint" of your roof rather than the actual surface area..the same amount of rain falls on a ten x ten shack, whether the roof is a flat 100 square foot thing or so steeply pitched & gabled that ya need to own stock in a shingle company to cover it, it's still only making a ten foot square hole in the sky.. Winter time. I had planned to simply drain the system for winter, and bypass the barrels with the downspout..but it never actually froze solid last year. The line from the barrels to the house got iced a few times, but on a sunny day everything thawed, regardless of outside temps. This year, the plan is to try insulating the whole system by lining the inner walls (it's already "enclosed" in wooden lattice) with styrofoam insulation, and possibly adding a couple low wattage light bulbs to the resulting insulated box to keep things above freezing. Solar heating. I haven't really put any thought into solar heating for hot water, to be honest..but I probably will, now..dang it! | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 1382 Registered: 01-2007 |
What about reusing some of the "gray" water? Drinking toilet water could be ok if you use a little bleach. | ||
Zrx_doug Member Username: Zrx_doug Post Number: 318 Registered: 03-2008 |
Eeeew! I've thought about reclaiming "gray" water (the stuff that normally goes down the drain when you bathe, wash clothes, etc.) for quite a while, especially when we get those dry summers when you're not allowed to water the lawn..but I never got around to it. It'd be simple enough to tie into existing drains from the tub & washing machine..just route 'em to the reservoir of your choice, then run a line from the reservoir back out to the drain to prevent overflow. After that, it's just a matter of figuring how to get water from your reservoir (presumably in the basement) out to the lawn/garden. The amount of clean water we waste is appalling, even if Michigan IS pretty much surrounded by the stuff..and it's pretty surprising how many homes in Detroit STILL have their rain gutters routed directly into the sewer system, despite it being illegal these days. |
