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Dannyv
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Username: Dannyv

Post Number: 256
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=20088062603 53

I can't help but wonder what the public reaction would be to this jury's acquital if it were two white girls accused of an assault resulting in murder against a black girl. Especially considering the apparent indifference of the police in processing the physical evidence and the judges who limited the legal culpability of the defendants.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3241
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So would you have felt better if two white women had killed her?
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll bet Judge Lipscomb is either African American or liberally leaning.

Two girls, presumably African American, admit to brutally killing a young girl, with no prior knowledge of that woman, for a bad purpose (bullying/robbery, whatever) and the Judge "Willie" and his cohorts treat this casually.

Well, these two girls will end up in a bad way - the father won't have to wait until late in life for the lord's judgement. They will think they are invincible and get caught up in something untoward at some point.
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Dannyv
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Username: Dannyv

Post Number: 257
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Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, I would have felt better if the legal system would have made a greater effort into pursuing justice for the Carissimi family and their daughter.
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Sciencefair
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Username: Sciencefair

Post Number: 111
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seeing coverage on the news last night, neither side of the story seemed to line up. That's the media. Would be interesting to know what actually happened.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3242
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

No, I would have felt better if the legal system would have made a greater effort into pursuing justice for the Carissimi family and their daughter.



Okay. So what the hell does the ethnic background of the women who murdered her have to do with that?
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Cub
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Username: Cub

Post Number: 526
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right Ihearted,
They should have been convicted of some type of murder just on the simple fact that they left her and got rid of her wallet. This is a disgrace.
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Pffft
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Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1551
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's pretty clear from the story linked above what happened...

You're not going to get a cogent "news story" from TV news on such a complicated tale.

Can't wait until the only news sources are TV stations.
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Reluctanttaxpayer
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Username: Reluctanttaxpayer

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:


No, I would have felt better if the legal system would have made a greater effort into pursuing justice for the Carissimi family and their daughter.

quote:

Okay. So what the hell does the ethnic background of the women who murdered her have to do with that?



Simple... the glorification of any white on black crime as a "hate crime" but you rarely IF EVER see the same for black on white crime.

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton stand on the courthouse steps and scream to anyone that will listen when it serves their agenda. What is happening with the mob beating in Mt Clemens? Why isn't it being treated as a hate crime? It's simply because the rules don't apply the same.

Crime is crime. It doesn't need some other pretty label.

It will be nice when (IF) the world ever becomes truly color blind and Jackson and Sharpton are out of a job.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3245
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Simple... the glorification of any white on black crime as a "hate crime" but you rarely IF EVER see the same for black on white crime.



What is the criteria for a hate crime?
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Reluctanttaxpayer
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Username: Reluctanttaxpayer

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

What is the criteria for a hate crime?



By some people's definition:
White kills black = hate crime. Jackson and Sharpton are called.
Black kills white = murder (maybe) (Don't dare mention the race of the killer or be labeled a racist)

My definition:
I don't give a crap who you are or what color you are. You kill and you are a murderer (pending conviction).

I may have had hate for you (why else would I kill you) but that does not mean that there should be some extra special punishment because it was a crime against a person of another race.

Tell you what, to illustrate how ridiculous it is. Let's pretend that you can only have ONE criminal charge against someone...

You are white and I am black.
You shoot (kill) me (reason does not matter)
You call me a 'N' and kick me in the head while on the ground.
Your gun is unregistered and found to be stolen.

Do you want to be charged with:
A) Murder
B) Hate crime
C) Firearm felony

The point is, who cares. Stack up as many as you want. I am still DEAD, it was MURDER, and calling it a HATE crime only serves the agenda of self-serving racists who call themselves preachers.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3246
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who cares what your opinion is? Answer the question. Do you know what the criteria for a hate crime is?
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lheartthed:

This is OJ all over again, Judge is "probably" black or definitely liberal leaning and the horrific death of a white girl by two black girls is "retribution" for years of putting the black folks down.

That OJ jury blew it, this judge and jury blew it. By not aggresively prosecuting. I mean come on - her lungs were filled with the mud she was laying in!
If that's not hate. AND those two girls who got away with it think they did nothing wrong. AND for more societal woes, how about their justification - they pointed fingers at each other. What happened to people taking responsibility for their actions? It's never anybody's fault anymore, especially in the liberal political feel good environments of modern metropolitan justice.
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Aoife
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Username: Aoife

Post Number: 64
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From the FBI's web site (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civi lrights/overview.htm)

Defining a Hate Crime
"A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation."
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 3247
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So... What you're telling me is that you don't know the criteria of a hate crime?
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 305
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where in the Article did they mention she got killed by two black girls?
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Aoife
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Username: Aoife

Post Number: 65
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hate crimes can be "black on white", you just need a prosecutor willing to go for it. For example, a few years ago I was the victim of a violent crime. During the attack the fellow threw off a string of insults, all of which had to do with the fact that I am white. When he arrested, he admitted he just wanted a "white girl", which is why he chose me. The prosecutor on the case told me it was better not to go for the "hate crime" aspect of it because it was more likely to turn off the sympathies of a juror. By that, a juror would be sympathetic to a young woman who had been through a brutal ordeal, but once the race card is out into play, especially by invoking a law seen by many to be in existence to protect the rights of minorities, then the juror might not see the girl as a victim, rather as simply a white person trying to bring down a black person. I accepted that, as I would rather see a criminal go to jail for a crime that can be proved than risk getting one person in a jury with strong opinions of the definition of a hate crime and having the creep go free.
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 1136
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully street justice catches up with these two.

No wonder Detroit has such a hard time solving murders. This one seemed to be gift wrapped with a bow on top.
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Melocoton
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Username: Melocoton

Post Number: 25
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When, o when will the centuries-long oppression of white people by blacks and liberal leaners come to an end?

Also, yes, the article in the News mentions nothing about the race of the accused perpetrators.
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Angry_dad
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Username: Angry_dad

Post Number: 212
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Fox news story shows a white and a black woman associated with the murder. It appears that Misty Dawn is black.

Nobody is denying that one of these two committed the crime.
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do need clarification on the ethnic background of the murderers and judge. I'm in Iowa, and can not be positive BUT either way, if these 2 murderers were white, then I think the degree of oversight by the law enforcement community would have been much tighter, and the two girls would be in prison now.

So, can someone locally tell me if the 2 girls are African American and is the judge "Willie" African American?

Why would a judge rule in favor of 2 admitted murderers?
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Django
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Username: Django

Post Number: 1096
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That sucks Ao. Sucks hardly describes it. I hope your okay.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 890
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First, I don't think the two girls "admitted" to murder. They have another story, from what I gathered in the paper, although they DID admit to throwing the wallet out of the car window.

A hate crime is a VIOLENT crime where the primary motive is an attribute of the victim: white, black, gay, disabled.

I am torn, because a crime IS a crime... but someone who targets and beats up gays or blacks or whites out of spite seems alot shittier than a person who beats up random people for their wallets
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 256
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 2:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not if you're the "random person" it doesn't..I've found that my broken nose tended to hurt pretty much the same each time regardless of the motivation or ethnicity of the fist doing the breaking..
:-)

What do you mean they didn't "admit to it?" It says in the story that each accused the other of doing it..they were together and they killed a woman, and then they went to court and each attempted (successfully!) to weasel out by claiming the other was responsible..

I'm not gonna jump on the "race" bandwagon, but it sure doesn't seem there's much doubt about the "guilt" question..

(Message edited by ZRX Doug on June 27, 2008)
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 49
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 8:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think it's a hate crime, I think the girls received preferential treatment because of their ethnicity. I believe this serves greater Detroit very poorly, and is all tied into the culture of entitlement. Break that culture (which is multi racial) and family values come back, slowly perhaps, but come back, less broken families - less of these kinds of murders.
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Wash_man
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Username: Wash_man

Post Number: 811
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://macombdaily.com/stories /062708/loc_local03.shtml
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Rjk
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Username: Rjk

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Friends and family of Misti Farmer, 28, gathered Wednesday night at a Hamtramck bar for a raucous celebration after she was acquitted in the murder of Maria Nicole Carissimi, 20, of St. Clair"

How else does one react after you were at the very least present, if not involved in the death of someone?

The people involved in the this seem kind of dopey, but if she were smart she'd lay low if not disappear. Flaunting her freedom after it appears that she was complicit in this woman's death could end up making people on the other side even more angry than they already are.
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Birdwoman
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Username: Birdwoman

Post Number: 40
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aoife said:
"The prosecutor on the case told me it was better not to go for the "hate crime" aspect of it because it was more likely to turn off the sympathies of a juror."

Well, here's a problem. The "sympathies" of a jury shouldn't make any difference. Juries are supposed to examine facts and evidence!

I don't believe that most of the general public (who serve on juries) have the education, logic skills, patience, or objectivity to evaluate complicated evidence (or perhaps, even simple evidence). Having just sat in a room with 300 or so other potential jurors at third circuit court, I can say that the majority would not have comprised a "jury of my peers." I don't mean that to sound pompous, only to mean I wouldn't want most of them deciding my lunch choices, much less my fate in a trial!

Do I have a better solution for meting out justice? No. Just pointing out the jury process is another weak link in the system.
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Reluctanttaxpayer
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Username: Reluctanttaxpayer

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ao, sorry for what you went through and Thank you for posting the definition of a hate crime. I was just ready to post the same exact thing but I see it was pointless since it is apparent that Iheartthed either cannot read or suffers from severe comprehension disability disorder.

quote:

So... What you're telling me is that you don't know the criteria of a hate crime?

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Jsavic1108
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Username: Jsavic1108

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit, the police investigators, the coroners office and the judges are truly pieces of Sh**. What a mockery of the justice system. I don't give a damn if these two were from outer space, the question should be, how can the two defendants be found not guilty and guilty of a lesser charge, respectively. If that was my daughter, that Hamtramck victory party for one of these animals would have had a visit. No wonder everyone leaves Detroit. I left years ago and it has continued to slide down the sewer ever since. When your mayor is a thug, how can you possibly think that justice will ever be served. What a shithole! Good Riddance
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M3rc4ry
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Username: M3rc4ry

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to some of you for being concerned and voicing your support for my niece's death. Though she was no saint she did not deserve to die in a field face down in the mud. Nobody deserves this fate.

I left Detroit in the 90's. Thank god I did. It's turned into a real dump.

Born in Warren, and raised in Sterling Heights and St. Clair Shores up until about the 70-80's it was a pretty nice place to grow up. Now I see how bad things are sliding. It's unfortunate that a place my relatives help build like Belle Isle is turning into such a pit for the low lifes of the earth.

As far as I'm concerned - I hope the whole city breaks off and sinks in the the Detroit river taking with it the city government that groomed the city into what it is today. Just like my niece - the city is a victim and the killers are getting away.

I feel sorry for the people who are stuck there. Other than to visit family - I don't plan on ever coming back. Being mugged once in Detroit myself the city has taken all it can from me and left nothing but misery in its wake.
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Iluvthad
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Username: Iluvthad

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry for your loss, M3rc4ry. I didn't follow the trial that closely. Did the prosecutors ever state the motive?

(Not that any reason would justify it, of course. I'm just curious. Seems like a lot of posters think it was a hate crime, but I thought Misti Farmer was white.)
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M3rc4ry
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Username: M3rc4ry

Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2008
Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I heard it was over a boyfriend. She got jumped, they beat her, and left her for dead.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 1268
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

there's a lot about this case that bothers me, and it's full of irregularities. from a procedural standpoint, as i explore this case, i cannot determine why the defendants were not bound over to 3rd circuit court:

quote:

The 36th District Court, with judges elected city-wide, handles civil disputes where less than $25,000 is in dispute, landlord-tenant matters, misdemeanors, and preliminary examinations of criminal defendants charged with felonies prior to being bound over to circuit court. The 36th District Court incorporated the city's common pleas, traffic court, and misdemeanor prosecutions.



homicide is a felony.

now, take a look at this:

http://www.sheltonlegal.net/ht ml/ask_a_lawyer__what_does__bo und.html

this will make national press very quickly. this is a travesty which will have the district court, prosecutor's office, kym worthy, and detroit police mired in scandal and possible civil suits.
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Roadmaster49
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Username: Roadmaster49

Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thecarl,
Won't make national news, because it would look bad for the liberals. The Liberal press does not report on it's own failings.

It appears I may be mistaken by the ethnicity of the murderers. It still has not been 100% verified if this Farmer killer was white or not.

My association of african american to the killer was because I could not figure out why a municipal judge, judge "Willie" would interpret from the bench to save the two murderers?

Why would he extend himself for two white girls? And after that basically those involved lacked a set (courage) to change the course. Now, as we all know, there is no double jeopardy in America.

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