 
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 525
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 2:29 pm: |    |
Exactly what I am saying Mwilbert. We see garbage trucks with front end loaders and cranes in the neighborhood all the time but wont pick up anything cause its not bulk pick up in our area Unless we want to pay them). OK then WTF are you over here? |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 610
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 3:09 pm: | |
I was in high school in 1961. Detroit was a great city back then and the neighborhoods thrived. People were working at the auto plants and the other companies that supplied the auto plants and times were good.
The decline of Detroit (IMO) began with the 1967 riots and went into further decline when CAY took office.
When the auto companies began closing their doors it went into further decline as you see it today. Downtown is beautiful, but go to the perimeter and it becomes a slum in most areas.
I was just down on Atwater Street a few days ago and other than a few old, established companies that have been there 100 years or more, it is a total wasteland.
WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! |
Peter
Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 160
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 4:02 pm: | |
The "armpit of America" is actually considered to be New Jersey. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 901
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 7:09 pm: | |
There is no doubt that the city has to provide good services and help the neighbourhoods out.
But as I sated before, I really think putting a focus on the downtown at the moment is o.k.
Downtowns are the golden egg for cities. A report done in Philly showed that something like almost half of all tax reveune for the city came from downtown eventhough it represents like 2% of the city's land area.
Detroit is no different. A large percentage of tax revenue comes from the city centre. And by making it better, you are bringing in more revenue to help fix up the entire city. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 934
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 8:25 pm: | |
I have heard a story about someone on the far West side that was unsuccessfully trying to get a burned out car out of their neighborhood for almost a full year. Finally, one night, he managed to tow it downtown and left it right in front of the Spirit. It was gone before morning rush hour.
Sigh... Who says the city doesn't care? |
Reddog289
Member
Username: Reddog289
Post Number: 408
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 1:28 am: | |
Good one, Sean, Maybe people could also drop[tow] their unwanted cars to that mansion by the river. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 201
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 2:21 am: | |
"The problem with the districts vs. the precincts is that there are greater distances between them, and thus greater response times to certain parts of the city that once had neighborhood precincts but now must rely on a station sometimes many miles away. Even on the lightest day, response times are longer because some neighborhoods are considerably farther away from a police station than before."
When I policed in Atlanta we often were 15 miles or more from our precincts office. We were expected to patrol in our assigned zones or sit in the car in our zones and work traffic. |
Hockey_player
Member
Username: Hockey_player
Post Number: 431
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 9:10 am: | |
Maybe patrol zones should negate the smaller number of stations, but combine the reorganization with a woefully understaffed police force here and response times are still terrible. |
65memories
Member
Username: 65memories
Post Number: 575
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 11:23 am: | |
Everytime I travel down Grand River, remembering what it once was, I get depressed.
http://www.detroittransithisto ry.info/AroundDetroit/GrandRiv erAvenue.html |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2611
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 11:34 am: | |
Wow 65memories, that would depress anyone.
Our own Midwestern NYC has turned into what it is now.  |
7051
Member
Username: 7051
Post Number: 121
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 4:36 pm: | |
BuyAmerican,
Detroit was in decline for close to 15 years prior to 1967. 67 Just continued the decline and with additional speed. Read the books, the info. is out there on the large number of job losses that took place in the mid and late 50's due to industry decentralizing from the core, rebuilding in single story factories (where land was cheap)and industry moving to southern non-unionized locations.
HP,
WHo cares how many physical stations we have in Detroit! Cops need to be out patroling to deter crime(if run volume is low) and out responding to runs (when run volume is high; going call to call). The city is budgeted for 3600 cops with about 3200 on the job. Year 2000 = 4900 cops, early and mid 1970's = 6,500+ |
Parkguy
Member
Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 297
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 5:27 pm: | |
BuyAmerican--
I totally agree with your statements, and I think that it has a lot to do with the state of the city AND the auto industry today. Automation certainly had a lot to do with it-- we produce a lot more cars now than we did back in the day, with a whole lot fewer workers and fewer plants. But, I also think that the entire auto-based economy has been on the same slide: gas stations, repair shops... everything. Not that long ago, there were "filling stations" on every mile road corner-- often on ALL FOUR corners, with a couple at the half-miles, too. And, THEY pumped the gas for you. As that industry contracted in the '70s, the first to go were the attendants so you now self-serve (remember when the legislature had to change the laws to permit self-serve gas pumps?), then the stations at weaker locations closed, and now gas stations only exist on the main roads, very seldomly in neighborhoods. Auto dealers used to line Grand River and other major roads, and were often located in the shopping areas around the city. Now, they've consolidated to huge pieces of property on the fringes, carrying huge inventories, and often dealing in several car makes at the same location. I know that was the result of changes in the way the manufacturers did business, but the consolidation continues today. Last year, Chrysler made the news several times with their calls for reducing the number of dealerships. The same happened at GM and Ford, as I recall. You can expect major reductions in the number of people employed at dealerships nationwide over the next few years as that works its way through the courts.
I wonder if anyone has studied the actual numbers regarding this? How many businesses existed in the 1940s, '50s, '60s that were auto based? How many now? I have a suspicion that the entire auto industry and all of its supporting industries have steadily shrunken over the last 50 years, even as the number of cars on the road and miles driven have skyrocketed. If that is the case, it isn't just the Detroit 3 that need to worry-- it is the entire automobile world.
Here's one implication: how do you restructure an industry so it can be profitable in a world of permanently expensive oil, strict safety and emissions regulations. How do you run a world-wide manufacturing corporation that can respond to rapid fluctuations in an environment that legislates long-term investment? Big problem. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 613
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 6:16 pm: | |
Parkguy-
The Japanese have no problem doing the just-in- time type manufacturing and changing their models frequently enough to keep their vehicles fresh. The American automotive industry has had ample opportunity to respond to what they knew was a growing crisis all the way back to the 70's, and they arrogantly continued their defiance of the need to change to accomodate the times. I do not feel one iota of remorse for their downfall.
Also, the numbers of employees that we are seeing now being let go adds to the already bloated 250,000+ jobs that the industry has shed in just the last two years alone. There are no numbers available from the companies themselves, but from the condition of the industry, the dropping of the automotive stocks and the amount of people just walking away from their liabilities, the economic condition of this city as a result of that are plain to see.
As for restructuring the industry, what do you think they have been doing for the last two years with the buyouts/layoffs/rehiring of cheaper, non union labor? They have cut so deep that all that are left is the hangers-on, and those were the LAST folks that they wanted to stay. Anybody worth their salt left the industry a long time ago. The incompetents that are left are the ones who caused the problems to begin with.
I have inside friends at Ford who tell me that there will be another 20% reduction the week after July 4th, and that is just scary considering they can't do their jobs efficiently because of the last layoffs and buyouts. Chrysler has let everybody go that they can and is said to be seriously considering filing for bankrupcy and GM is at the lowest point in it's history.
This will really only get much, much worse.....and Detroiters will suffer from it the most.
Consider the fact that collectively, the Big Three are building about 1.5 million LESS vehicles than before, and it is plain as day-we must find a new venue which we can REPLACE the jobs that have been lost. Automotive jobs, in the way we remember them from before, will NEVER come back, ever. The sooner we realize that and move forward with other means of supporting ourselves, the better. Speculating about it is too late now, it is what it is. Now is the time to re-educate ourselves before it gets worse and there are no more jobs to be had of ANY kind. |
Parkguy
Member
Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 299
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 6:34 pm: | |
Plym--
Basically, I agree with all you said. But remember, Toyota also saw a big drop in production in the first half of this year. I agree about the Detroit 3-- they chose to latch onto the big-size, high-profit vehicle market a long time ago, leaving the small, efficient, entry-level market to others. Now it is biting them in the behind. Detroit will suffer because that is ALL we have here for industry. That must and will change. It will be painful for those who aren't prepared for change. It will be painful for the top-down management types who aren't prepared for a post-industrial approach to organization, and it will be painful for the laborer who isn't prepared for anything except a confrontational us-versus-them relationship with management. NEITHER OF THOSE TWO WAYS OF THINKING WILL WORK ANYMORE, and they haven't worked in a long time. It is just that so few people around here recognized the fact. Our whole way of thinking, our whole view of the way the world works, was based on the old, industrial model. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 1:03 am: | |
'just in time' doesn't work when unions strike 'just in time'.
In EEV I saw a few neighborhood kids walking the beat in the middle of the street harassing motorists.
City activist calls it quits on Detroit.
http://www.detroitnews.com/app s/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200806 28/OPINION03/806280398/1038/LI FESTYLE01
"Hurst worked tirelessly for nine long years in her crusade against blight. Somewhere between being told to "call the mayor" or being repeatedly disconnected by the 224-DOPE phone line, she decided not to take it anymore."
Hurst predicts, "If Detroit's leaders continue to demonstrate such shameful neglect and disregard for the basic quality of services for its citizens and taxpayers, pretty soon the only people left in Detroit will be those too poor to leave and the criminals who prey on them."
-She is not too far off there. |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 904
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 9:49 am: | |
About the auto jobs. People don't need to buy American if the American product is not as good as the other auto makers. The reason American cars are not being bought, is because the American car companies have not kept up with the times. GM, FORD, etc really only have themselves to blame for this mess, by not moving up with the times.
Also I would like to know what % of jobs in Metro Detroit really are related to the auto sector this day in age. I think Metro Detroit's economy might be a little more diversified than people think it is, and that auto related jobs don't really account for the largest majority of jobs anymore. |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 615
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:31 am: | |
Mike, I've been purchasing American automobiles for the past 50 years and other than one Lumina back in the 80's, never had a problem with any of them. American automobiles are as good or better than any foreign on the market, IMO.
Detroit fell into hard times mainly because the Big 3 is in decline. There is a huge ripple effect, when the Big 3 goes, the little companies that supplied parts goes, the bars close, the restaurants shut the doors, even the neighborhood barber looses customers because the employees would go to the nearest one on their lunch hour. Detroit is done! With the corruption at the government level, the Big 3 shutting down factories, crime levels rising even higher, Detroit may as well shut it's doors too. I wish I knew what the answer was.
Go to www.levelfieldinstitute.org and read the site, it's very interesting.
WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2627
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:45 am: | |
The Little Engine That Could |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4558
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 12:23 pm: | |
I think a lot of the current malaise is Kwame (and now DPS) related rather than Big 3 related.
The auto companies can and are taking steps to improve themselves. Kwame isn't and we can't make him. Right now he's the representative Failure of Detroit and his stench is spreading. |
Deteamster
Member
Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 120
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 12:23 pm: | |
"Also I would like to know what % of jobs in Metro Detroit really are related to the auto sector this day in age. I think Metro Detroit's economy might be a little more diversified than people think it is, and that auto related jobs don't really account for the largest majority of jobs anymore."
The three largest employers in SE Michigan are still the Big 3(somebody had the figures a while back). This doesn't take into account all the spinoff and supplier jobs.
I think the downtown strategy has only been a partial success. Since the early mayoral days of Coleslaw, the CBD has been the focus of attention and redevelopment.
Firstly, downtown still isn't self-sustainable. The Book tower just closed. Add that to the Stott, the David Whitney, the Broderick, and the dozens of much lower-profile vacant buildings. A central business district should naturally evolve out of the residents and region doing business there, not throwing money at it for decades.
Sure downtown looks ok and tends to make a fairly good impression on visitors, but other than the immediately surrounding neighborhoods, the state of the rest of the neighborhoods in the city have largely been in decline.
There are too many viable neighborhoods(the majority of solid neighborhoods in the city) miles away from the CBD to ignore them, though they have been. The list is familiar: EEV, Rosedales, Grandmont, the huge chuck of nice neighborhoods around U of D, etc.
Neighborhoods don't have to be trendy to retain residents. There is still somewhere around 900k people in what is still a very dense city.
Take Warrendale, for example. A prosperous neighborhood even a decade ago, now declining. It wasn't trendy, but it was a nice place to live.
I can see the CBD from my front porch but don't go there that often, other than for Coneys or the goofy festivals. The state of my neighborhood is far more important to me as a resident than some Disneyland downtown. |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 616
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 2:56 pm: | |
Deteamster.."The three largest employers in SE Michigan are still the Big 3(somebody had the figures a while back). This doesn't take into account all the spinoff and supplier jobs."
100% correct!
Lilpup, "I think a lot of the current malaise is Kwame (and now DPS) related rather than Big 3 related"
Also correct.
KK and his thugs better start preparing for the $hit to hit the fan because the Feds are on their way to clean Detroit's house. Detroiters...this is YOUR house and you continue to let this corrupt malcontent stay at the mahogany desk? Shame on all of you. He is raping and pillaging every Detroiter, stealing from the State and not one thing has been done to put a stop to it other than a lot of idle threats. I can't believe the mentality and stupidity of Detroiters today. What hold does KK have over all of you? Why don't all of you just go down to the closed City County Bldg and open your wallets and just let him take what he wants from you personally....he's doing the same thing by staying in office and hiring one lawyer after another to defend each other, him, his cronies, etc. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4561
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 3:07 pm: | |
It's not for not trying to remove him. The wheels just move too slowly. |
Buyamerican
Member
Username: Buyamerican
Post Number: 619
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 4:27 pm: | |
I have not seen an effort on the part of the residents of Detroit to even sign a recall let alone start one. |
Plymouthres
Member
Username: Plymouthres
Post Number: 617
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 4:35 pm: | |
Not only that, when you have members of the City Council writing letters to the governor begging her not to take any action, what do you expect?
I hope the Feds step in and crush him AND his momma......her latest outbursts are indicative of the apple not falling too far from the tree.
The citizens are too apathetic to do anything as this is just business as usual for them. They are used to it and it shows by their inability to gang together and broom him out like the trash he is. What a tremendously arrogant ass he is.
I am actually surprised that no one has said this is a "racial witch hunt" yet. |
Oldestuff
Member
Username: Oldestuff
Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 4:50 pm: | |
any of you ever attend a District/Police Community Relations Council meeting? They're usually held one evening a month. They are attended by the District Commanderss, the Deputy Chief and about 8 or 9 police officers that are all PR people and law enforcement. While it is probably a step in the right direction to bring the Dept. and the neighborhoods together, it would be more appreciated if those dozen or so officers were actually enforcing the law instead of putting on a "dog and pony" show. They listen to the problems regarding poor police presence and nod and agree
that they are understaffed, they pat you on the head and guess what???? nothing changes. They tell us we can ask for foot patrols, but that decision has to come from above, not the District
level. So, how come they have all this time to
show up at useless meetings and talk about taking
senior citizens to the movies and throwing picnics for the underprivileged kids and we have to rely on citizens patrols to take care of the neighborhoods? It's not law enforcement any more,
it's creating an image of good will = all smoke and mirrors. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 7341
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 6:04 pm: | |
There is money to be made downtown because you can attract some people to live or work there and others to come in from for entertainment and sports, so investors are willing to play.
Not so in the neighborhoods, low income, crime ridden areas have nothing to offer business to make it worthwhile except for a few stores with bullet proof glass and bars on the doors.
(Message edited by perfectgentleman on June 29, 2008) |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2633
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 6:36 pm: | |
Yeah, if things keep up, Detroit will earn the "Biggest Little City In The World" title.
A big, vibrant downtown with nothing but prairies surrounding it. |
Hockey_guy
Member
Username: Hockey_guy
Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 9:30 pm: | |
Detroit needs to capitalize on it's history. When people think of Detroit they think of motown and cars. We need a motown museum on the riverfront, like Cleveland has the Rock and roll hall of fame. |
Perfectgentleman
Member
Username: Perfectgentleman
Post Number: 7363
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 9:35 pm: | |
From what I here the existing Motown museum is barely getting by. The sad fact is that a museum is one of the only places you can see evidence of success in Detroit, as it is mostly in the past. As for cars, I guess if someone built something better than Auto World it might be good. Henry Ford Museum comes pretty close already though. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2637
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:07 pm: | |
Ok, from what I hear, they closed Osborn High School.
Is this true?
If so, I never would have saw that coming with the higher population of children in 48205.
(Message edited by DetroitRise on June 29, 2008) |
Cub
Member
Username: Cub
Post Number: 545
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:14 pm: | |
When did that happen Drise? I know several high school kids who attend there and they know nothing of it. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7075
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 11:17 pm: | |
I don't know where you heard that Perfectgentleman. Last Saturday Hitsville USA was jammin' with 10 buses parked outside. |
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