Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » 2008 Freedom Festival Fireworks Feedbacks. « Previous Next »
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 756
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Below is our account of the evening of June 23, 2008.

The past 4 years, a close family friend in Windsor has been inviting us to spend the evening at the Canadian side to watch the fireworks.

This year, we thought that we would invite them to Detroit for a change. What a big mistake that was.

1. The city looked like it was on Homeland Security lockdown. There were groups of 4-5 police officers each at the majority of the intersections - not helping with traffic, but just standing around and talking.

2. The much over-hyped RiverWalk is not completely accessible from end to end. The segment in front of the WinterGarden was 'wrist-strap' only. The next segment west of that was closed off. Hart Plaza towards Cobo Center was heavily barricaded as well, and even Jefferson was off-limits to pedestrians westward from that point on.

3. After the fireworks, hundreds of people headed to the Ren Cen PeopleMover station to catch a ride. The cop standing there stopped everyone from getting through the turnstiles. Hundreds of folks stood there for at least 30 minutes, before someone decided to question the 'authority figure' about the status of the trains. The cop then revealed that each and every train coming into the Ren Cen station is completely packed with people who got on at the Cobo stop onwards. Now, why wasn't this information passed along sooner?

There could be a better rotating system put in place to manage crowds on the PeopleMover, so that at least a limited number of people could get on at each stop along the route. It is becoming more and more obvious that we have the most incompetent people managing critical infrastructures here in the city of Detroit. It is truly amazing that we were able to leave Times Square in New York City after the New Year's ball drop event, riding the train all the way out to Elizabeth, New Jersey, quicker and more efficiently, than using the PeopleMover to get from Ren Cen to the Grand Circus Park stop.

Let's just say that we will definitely not be inviting anybody to Detroit for the 2009 Freedom Festival Fireworks.

What about your take on last night's event? Please share.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 2072
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As much as I dislike heavy police presence, I understood the huge amount tonight was probably to keep the visitors from feeling safe (due to the shooting a few years back) The cops were actually pretty friendly around Capital Park.

The people mover is what it is and there is no way around that. It is even terrible after Wings games bike was a great way to get around

that is a bummer about the ren cen riverfront, however Jefferson was open off Griswold. Last year i walked right to the river from Beaubien for a front row seat.
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Cub
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Username: Cub

Post Number: 507
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to agree, They closed off streets that I would think would have relieved a lot of congestion after the fireworks. I was riding a bike so I got around a little better than most. I can't believe I am saying this but the police presence seemed like overkill. They should have been spread out a little more in my opinion. Too many were in one place.
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Spiritofdetroit
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Username: Spiritofdetroit

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had an awesome time walking the riverfront from the GM barricade almost all the way to Belle Isle. Packed harbors, marinas, and parks. Music and barbecues. An awesome day. Its almost as if the fireworks were an afterthought.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2650
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 6:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In my secret location there was a constant police presence. Not only were there Detroit police present, but Michigan State Police, Border police, and U.S. Postal police were also present in the area. No problems with folks in my area.

There was one unfortunate situation in my location when guys from the Salvation Army opened up this riverfront lot and told people that they could park in this lot for 10 bucks and then the police came and told the folks that they had to leave.

Well, the people who were still in the vicinity moved their cars across the street to the Salvation Army's actual property, but anyone who wasn't near by to see what was happening got their car towed. If I was one of those people, I would be suing the Salvation Army to get my 10 bucks back and the fee for getting my car out of the impound.

Also, the property along the river behind the main post office would have been an ideal place for families to camp out while waiting for the fireworks(I heard it belongs to the Detroit News). Instead you have this football field wide and long area closed off to the public. At least open it up and charge a fee for folks to enter, or sell it to the city so that it can officially become a riverfront park, or have a developer build some high-rise condos on it, but leaving an area like this undeveloped and unused along the riverfront is a travesty.

Considering the time that I got down to my location, the evening went off without a hitch. I'll definitely consider watching the fireworks from this location again for future fireworks viewing.

(Message edited by royce on June 24, 2008)
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 463
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to mean Darwinism

but from Ren Cen to GCP is a short brisk walk

I went to Windsor it was really nice!
I don't think many Americans go to Windsor for the fireworks. We took the Bridge over after going through a maze avoiding the construction and the tunnel on the way back had like 3 cars at the most at US Customs
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 910
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it is really sad that your reaction to a frustrating "uninformed" evening at the fireworks is automatically to write-off EVER going again. That is exactly the attitude of the people in this region that ruins everything we have. Instead of trying to UNDERSTAND what was going on or why or even how you can avoid it the NEXT time, your first reaction is the attitude that Detroit sucks and their mismanagement ruined your ability to EVER enjoy this great event ever again.

Sorry, but a better reaction would be frustration with an eye looking for enlightenment so you can invite your friends NEXT year to TRULY enjoy the fireworks after you have learned the multitude of "insider" tips.

Just like the people mover line... You can be a cow in line to be slaughtered or you can ask, learn, be informed and make your whole event enjoyable. This region is lost to ever be anything great, because the people just don't want it. Hope you enjoy your weekend in Windsor, next year.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2835
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My one comment: DPD managed to produce a few hundred police officers for the event, but they can't manage to have 1 officer show up when there's a shooting in my neighborhood.

And this makes sense why?
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Waymooreland
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Username: Waymooreland

Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Similar experience: my wife and I wanted to stop by the Park Bar on our way home to Brush Park after the Sunday of the Movement festival this year. We wanted to hop on the People Mover at the Financial District station and take it to Grand Circus. Well, the station was closed. The PM seemed to be running, but the doors to that station were locked. I found that pretty ridiculous considering one of the city's signature annual events was going on, not to mention it was a holiday weekend. Frankly, I was pissed. But we just decided to walk to the Park Bar. No biggie -- it's only about a half-hour walk at a leisurely pace. It wasn't so bad, but I firmly expected the PM to be running extended hours because of the festival. Weird.

That comparison to NYC is kind of absurd, though. That city's transit system handles thousands of commuters daily. If Detroit had a system as extensive as New York's, it would be damn near empty most of the time and quite costly. It's like living by yourself in a studio apartment -- it's fine for you, but it can get pretty uncomfortable if you decide to have 20 friends over for a party. But since you don't throw huge parties every day, it's not really logical to pay for a bigger apartment.

Maybe a park and ride system for the fireworks would be a good idea. I think once the light rail is here (fingers crossed), the State Fairgrounds could provide a great park and ride lot for non-city dwellers.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 9081
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was very interesting watching while trying to catch a bus home.

I went to Capitol Park, every bus flashed a sign "Not in Service", I finally asked a supervisor if I'd be able to catch the Lafayette-Van Dyke at its usual place. He told me no, I'd have to go to Cadillac Square. So I walked to Cadillac Square.

When I arrived there, again all the buses flashed "Not in Service". Again, I tracked down a supervisor to ask him where to find my bus. He told me they had not yet assigned the buses to routes and to check back with him in a few minutes. Mind you, this is after the finale!

I got back to him about 10 minutes later, he pointed out which bus was designated for the Jefferson route (my alternate), I got on, sat down and after about 10 minutes asked the driver when we would be leaving. His answer... he didn't know, so I asked him if it would be ok, if I stepped outside to smoke a cigarette.

Not only did he say yes, he joined me.

It was another 10 minutes before he got the ok to leave. Instead of taking the usual route along Jefferson he drove Gratiot all the way to Mt. Elliot before he went to Jefferson (about 2 1/2 miles from Downtown).

With all the congestion, which I expected, the normal route which is about 15 minutes, took about 45 minutes.

All I could think about, if an evacuation was ever needed because of some disaster, we're screwed.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 1598
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well all I can say is, "What's new?" I've been to many a fireworks, and it's always congested. With a million people downtown it's not a stretch of the imagination to see why.

We haven't been downtown for the fireworks in years. We walked to Belle Isle a few years ago and that was pleasant...not too crowded.

One time when I was still in school, I think '92 or '93, a group of us drove down from Southfield. We got stuck in traffic leaving and didn't get home until 4:30am...seriously.

This has always been a problem (the congestion for fireworks)...nothing new.

I agree that Windsor is probably a better place to view the fireworks, but only if you're going home to a house in Windsor afterwards (I wouldn't want to deal with the tunnel or bridge). Thing is...there simply isn't the huge crowd in Windsor.

No solutions from me...sorry. Just thought I'd put it in perspective.
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Detroiterbychoice
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Username: Detroiterbychoice

Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Best View of the Night:

On Jefferson about 20 minutes after the fireworks were done. We were driving east on jefferson in deadlocked traffic, when all of a sudden some guy tries to make a break for it and somehow runs dead on into a light post on the opposite side of the road, and it falls right on his car. Then he backs up, ran into again (by accident I think), and then takes off like a bat out of hell.

Awesome.
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Sciencefair
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Username: Sciencefair

Post Number: 109
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I enjoyed the fireworks from a rooftop deck in Midtown. Best display I've seen yet.

As for the "much over-hyped RiverWalk" - IT'S NOT DONE YET! Have some patience.

And I agree with DetroitDuo, if you do a little research and learn from your experience, next year will be a lot more fun. For an event this big, you need to plan ahead a bit.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2563
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, I rather have congestion around the city than a ghostly presence.

Any other time at 11-12 PM, there's not a soul around. :-)

I saw the event on WDIV and those people all left Hart Plaza at once, and don't forget the evacuation on Belle Isle. Naturally you were going to have congestion if everyone's leaving at the same exact time.

BTW, I heard they turned Woodward into a one way. I wonder why they didn't do the same for the other avenue?
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 1173
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps because of the possible need for emergency vehicles?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2564
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of the emergency service hubs are right in downtown Detroit, so what emergency vehicles did they need?

(Message edited by DetroitRise on June 24, 2008)
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Pgn421
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Username: Pgn421

Post Number: 659
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it was very nice atop the RenCen
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 760
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd rather stay home and light a roman candle out of my ass then go downtown to the firework show. There was gunplay right in Hart Plaza last time I went, back in the 90's.
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Pam
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Username: Pam

Post Number: 4204
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I'd rather stay home and light a roman candle out of my ass



Pics?
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2567
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, with this being the 50th anniversary, I thought it would be a tad longer.

Is it just me or do the shows seem to get shorter every year?
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 606
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Space-

Nice visual on the Roman candle comment! Think I could get that two seconds of my life back that it took me to read that?

I guess because you had one bad experience at Hart Plaza the whole city isn't worth it anymore, huh? Quitter!

All-

We had a great time at Fort Wayne. I obviously didn't get there early enough, though, as some of the folks going down there missed us! We had quite a contingent atop the walls of the Fort, on the southeast corner of the rampart. Crystal and her family showed up, and there were probably at least a half dozen or so DetroitYes folks who did make it to our location. And yes, she brought her famous Tollhouse cookies-delicious!

The Boy Scouts also had a very unique ceremony in which they "retired" some flags that had reached their end. It was an interesting experience, as they read aloud the history of the flag and all of its various symbolic meanings. I believe that it was the first time I ever witnessed a flag, burned not in protest, but in honor.

Next year we will have signs so thatpeople can find their way and get to our spot better.

The display was fantastic and by Fort Wayne, traffic was nill. I was impressed by the police presence, but i agree-where are they when you need them?

I thought it was a waste to see all those cops just laughing and joking down at the Fort, as if something were going to go down there? There must have been at least two dozen of them there...

Next year, save yourself some aggravation and come down to Fort Wayne. Awesome job on the fireworks, Detroit!
Lastly, I get the impression that some people will never be satisfied with what this city endeavours to do. Give it a break, eh?
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French777
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Username: French777

Post Number: 464
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Spacemonkey

You are a Typical Rochester Hills person

Detroit is so much safer now than in the 90's

Yes, There was that shooting in like 2002 or something but Downtown Detroit is 38% safer than the National Average for an Urban Downtown.


Do you live on the Ruther side of Rochester?
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Spitty
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Username: Spitty

Post Number: 686
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I walked from Lafayette Park to Rivard Plaza and took my nephews on the carousel, the ferris wheel and the little dragon roller coaster. Then plopped down a chair in front of the roller coaster and had a great view with no one even within 50 feet of us. I had no problems at all and was surprised at how easy it was and how much space there was so close to the action.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 2570
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, a tad off topic, but how did you guys enjoy River Days?

We're there any new additions? :-)
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Downriviera
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Username: Downriviera

Post Number: 743
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, all that noise was just fireworks. For a minute there, I thought Livonia was attacking.
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Tonyt
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Username: Tonyt

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, our bike gang spot near Cobo was fine but the police for some reason had barricaded off our usual spot.

To be totally honest, the police we encountered were pretty rude. They would just scream at the top of their lungs and not even listen if you needed advice on how to follow their orders.

It's one thing to have a million cops out but it's another if all they do is assume that you're just another drunken asshole. They acted like robots and offered no help when you tried to ask them for clarification on how to comply with their directives.

I'll bet the Canadians love our Police State Amerika. Did anyone else hear booing when they flew the Canadian flag? I mean really, what the hell is wrong with people.
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Southen
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Username: Southen

Post Number: 404
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really enjoyed myself. Some friends and I are renting space over at Russell so we decided to use the roof for this years fireworks.

Heres a shot from them, more to come

http://www.flickr.com/photos/s outhen/2608021302/
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Otter
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Username: Otter

Post Number: 214
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rode my bike to Belle Isle, watched fireworks, rode back home (GPP). Total transit time was under 30 minutes. But, given that my soundtrack was human and automobile noise, I think I might prefer just watching it on TV. Bicycle is def. the way to go if you're going downtown, though.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 2170
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

which building southen? i was up top on building 4 the last two years
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 761
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

French777, thank you for the compliments. Yes, I guess I am a typical hard-working, industrious Rochester Hills resident. Albeit, unlike my neighbors, I do prefer burning my assneck with roman candle fire as opposed to going through the hassle of driving to Detroit to risk my life just to see a semi-enjoyable fireworks display. It just taint worth the effort.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 757
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

French777: Hundreds of people who stood in the Ren Cen station were very frustrated and went down onto the streets to walk to their respective destinations.

Detroitduo: If you have read my other posts, and knew about my dedication to this city, you would understand that I have no reason to knock on Detroit. The problem isn't about the people not wanting anything great - but rather, Detroit keep letting its people down time and time again, over and over again. Let's not look at everything in Detroit with glazed lenses. Tourism is a very, very lucrative business, but it is a business that you have just one chance.

Waymooreland: The mention of NYC is not absurd, and here's why. Regardless of what facility you have, you need to be intelligent on how you manage your resources. Using your studio apartment scenario, I would not invite 20 people to the party at the same time. Instead, I would invite 5 at a time each, and manage my studio apartment space wisely, so that it can eventually accommodate everyone. It is called 'Thinking Outside the Box'. The PeopleMover should not just load to overflowing full capacity at the Cobo or Joe Louis stops. Why not have 20-30 people from each stop in for each train? Alternatively, how about dedicating each train car for each stop per rotation? The goal is to be able to accommodate passengers at each stop, albeit slowly, rather than just leaving the hundreds and hundreds of people at the Millender stop, or Ren Cen stop, to stand there with absolutely no movement, and with absolutely no explanation/information. In case you do not comprehend such a concept, it is called 'Customer Service'. The bottom line is that when you have hundreds and hundreds of people going home feeling pissed off, then something is obviously fucked up. It's as simple as that.

Jams: I believe that you and I know full well that this city is incapable of efficient disaster evacuation. Let's not talk about it, because we'll be wearing scarlet letters for criticizing Detroit 's infrastructure and resource management abilities.

Sciencefair: Were you there last night? We're not talking about the parts that are not done yet. We are talking about the parts that are indeed done, but barricaded off. You can agree with Detroitduo and share his glazed lenses all you want, but don't assume that I am new to this city, or new to attending events in downtown Detroit, because you can't possibly be more wrong.

Plymouthres: "I guess because you had one bad experience at Hart Plaza the whole city isn't worth it anymore, huh? Quitter!" - If I was truly a quitter, I would not have even invited people to Detroit this year. And do you really honestly think that I am the only one with only one bad experience? Here's an insight; Standing for more than 30 minutes at a PeopleMover stop packed like fish allows for many casual conversations with folks around me. How about we expand that number to at least a dozen or so people with their very own individual multiple bad experiences? Are you seriously comfortable with such exponential growth of negative experiences?

Tonyt: As far as some forumers are concerned, police officers are not there to serve and protect people, or to help guide people. According to these forumers, police officers are authoritative figures who are there to scold and yell orders. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3310
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I've been reading about the police actions during the fireworks, it strikes me that the police officers were not the problem, but the lack of proper supervision certainly was.

In my day any time I'd find a more than two officers gathered, I'd find out what the hell it was about and get 'em moving. But I rarely had a problem with that 25 years back.

New breed, I guess.

Did you posters see any police officers with chevrons or lieutenant bars? Prolly not. Pity.
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Vetalalumni
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Username: Vetalalumni

Post Number: 1032
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the comments here about the fireworks this year. Attended many times back in the day. Police Officers are just humans, and having the shiny badge on their chests does not guarantee good will in their hearts. Lack of good intentions is often displaced by apathy, or worse yet, ill-will.
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 607
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwinism-

You invited opinions, I shared mine. Your experiences and those of others suck, and I can certainly agree that it was not done well. It could have been done differently.

I am not comfortable with Detroit and the way they do things period (obviously you've never read any of my previous posts), but it is what it is. I experienced Hart Plaza ONE time in the twenty years that I have been attending the fireworks and witnessed a shooting as well. My comment was meant in jest, so lighten up a bit.

As a Detroiter, or someone who is familiar with Detroit, what were you thinking going into the heart of the beast and expecting anything but chaos? I suppose you really thought that with a million people in town, the cops were just going to snap their fingers and everyone would just go away? If you were going into the epicenter, why didn't you make plans to hang out a bit until traffic cleared? At the very least, what made you wait a half hour before doing something? That does not make sense to me, I'm sorry.

I would wager to say that you don't go down to the cities events very often, and you sound like someone very naive about how incompetent the city is at these things. To depend on them and not have a backup plan is a bit like playing Russian roulette, and not at all prudent. I learned a long time ago when dealing with the city and it's functions that I could never depend on the infrastructure to meet my needs, and always have a backup plan to fall back on.

That being said, try to come down (with your Canadian friends!) next year to the Fort and we will show them a much better time. We drove right out within ten minutes of the fireworks ending, so that shouldn't be an issue for you if you decide to come down next year.

Ray-

No OFFICERS, at all. I did not see one person who appeared as though they were in charge. It makes the cops look incompetent when they stand around BSing in the middle of the street when there is road rage occurring right next to them that they are doing NOTHING about.
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Downriviera
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Username: Downriviera

Post Number: 752
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Despite all this there will be a million plus at the fireworks again next year.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 758
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray1936: Your post above echo the exact same sentiments expressed by those I know who were and are currently in DPD or nearby PDs. New breed and certainly not a very competent one - perhaps due to lack of supervision, perhaps lack of character and integrity as well.

Plymouthres: Your shared opinion on Fort Wayne is certainly appreciated. I do not doubt your positive personal account in that regards. Besides, I have met you and Mrs. Plymouthres at an FSC before, wonderful volunteers and good people. Your interpretation of my story sounded distorted in some respect, perhaps that's why the point may have been missed. Our group was virtually 3-4 feet away from the turnstiles, with hundreds of folks packed in behind us into the Ren Cen PeopleMover station. To turn around and retreat would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. After more than 30 minutes, standing, a group to our right piped up and ask the officer what's the hold-up. And only at that point did he tell the crowd that each and every train has been completely full. Only then did everyone turned around and retreated, collectively, which made the process easier than trying to fight the flow of movement initially. So, to make the long story short, we did in fact got out onto the streets and walked to Grand Circus Park. It took just 15-20 minutes total to go from the Ren Cen station to Grand Circus Park, got into the car and exited the CBD. I hope it makes sense to you now. And you may want to retract that wager. Frankly, it is upsetting to hear you say pessimistically that you could never depend on the infrastructure in Detroit to meet your needs. Plymouthres, take a few steps back and view that statement from an outsider's perspective. If Detroit can't even have basic infrastructures that meet our needs, how could it possibly meet those of our tourists and visitors from afar? Wanna know why I invited our Canadian friends this year after going there for the past 4 years? Because I was optimistic and strongly believe that Detroit would step up, I had faith that during the city's biggest annual event, all the stars would align and I could tell our Canadian visitors that the new Detroit is finally here. Do you see now why it is so disappointing? It is because I drank the Kool-Aid and I put my trust in Detroit. I would not be so disappointed if I had the same mindset as you, because then I would just brush it off and say, "Same old Detroit, just the same ol' Detroit."
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 295
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow I can't believe someone would compare Detroit to N.Y., we are two different cities. The reason there is so much congestion is because of the bottle neck effect that is created when more than 100,000+ vehicles try to move in the same direction. No matter how many streets you take all end up in the same three places I-75, I-94, and the lodge. So at some point they are going to back up the whole freeway system to Downtown because so few take alternative routes.

The people mover was not built to handle these types of Influx of crowds that swell in the 100's of thousands, as a matter of fact NO type of transportation system is.

I was at the Taste Fest in Chicago and every year there are crowds upon crowds of people waiting to catch the Metro when the festival ends. Do you hear people complaining NO! because they are used to hurry up and waiting. In Detroit we should be proud that we don't have to complain about traffic year round like in all other major cities of our size.

I felt like it was a honor to celebrate the events 50th Anniversary and enjoy (and still marvel at) the fact that you can get so many people into such a small place for a 20 minute show, Not have a single reported incident, and still have people complain. I guess some people will never be satisfied.
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 982
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the basic problem here is the lack of ACTION by any of "Detroit's Finest".

While I did not personally head down to the fireworks last night, all the complaints voiced above sound unfortunately familiar. This is not a new dance for the DPD, I've been to many past events downtown which require some degree of effective crowd control and MANAGEMENT; Tiger's opening days, Super Bowl, Festival of Arts, Thanksgiving parades, etc. The dance is always the same: streets closed for no obvious reason, those which are closed are poorly marked with no alternates, and virtually NO ONE directing traffic or assisting w/ the crowds, causing a giant clusterfukk.

While I don't necessarily expect that cops should be directing traffic and allowing their more important role of crime prevention go unattended, how about getting the Academy Cadets out there w/ vests and flashlights and let them earn their badge, so to speak?

DPD seemingly has no clue how to manage traffic, how to safely and effectively allow the crowds to assemble, attend an the event, and then effectively get people on their way. I don't necessarily blame every cop for this breakdown, however they are not w/o fault either, especially with some of the poor attitudes which are too readily displayed.

Rather, as Ray indicated, it sounds like poor planning, management and leadership by those higher up. Frankly, I've always been underwhelmed with Bully-Cummings, and think that a house cleaning, starting w/ her could do nothing but help the overall performance of the entire dept.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1438
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Awesome fireworks display as usual.

Traffic getting out was a total nightmare. Tried to pick up my girlfriend, I had to go about three mile around because of traffic direction. I took almost an hour. What a nightmare. I will never drive down there after that.
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Pgn421
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Username: Pgn421

Post Number: 666
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

we waited an hour o let traffic clear up.it was smooth sailing to the east side
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 491
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My experience was great! I watched them from the RenCen. It's nice having the food court, and unbelievable how crowded the concourses got throughout the building. I'd say the worst part was leaving the Greektown ramp. Everyone was being so polite to let every other car enter the circulation ramp, except for a few out of state people that cut everyone off on the way down!
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Plymouthres
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Username: Plymouthres

Post Number: 608
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwinism-

Thanks for your kind words. My wife and I do what we can, as we try to put our volunteer efforts towards the places that have the most hope, but most of the time we are overwhelmed by the totality of the task! I like to think that we are part of the solution, not the problem.

My mindset comes from YEARS of disappointment with the City and it's inability to get it right. I have watched, painfully, the "infrastructure" allow a once vibrant city to become a virtual cess pool of forgotten promises. It is a shame and it kills me to see that happen, especially to a place like Detroit, of which I am so fond.

In re-reading what I wrote, I stepped out of line when I made the comments that I did in regard to your visiting the city and how I dismissed your opinion as "naive" so quickly. It was not my intention to do that, I was just a bit baffled about the length of time it took to sort out the PM issue. You more than adequately explained the sequence and the situation, so I got it much better after your second (#758) post.

In retrospect, I am sure that your experience while waiting for the PM in one of their tiny terminals would have been just about the topper of the evening for me, too.

As someone who does frequent the city, I am a bit surprised, though, that you are still optimistic enough to have had your hopes up, particularly when the city is in such turmoil as it is today. I would ask you, what was your impetus for being so optimistic? Considering the dismal state of the police, fire, EMS, schools, arts and general public conveniences, I'm interested to know how you thought it would be anything but business as usual?

I do not believe that I have ever seen such an apathetic situation as the city is in today in all of my life. It is disheartening, but as I said, it is what it is. I do applaud your enthusiasm, as that is the type of infusion of hope that the city needs on a major level. Perhaps if the politicians and appointed officials can't get enthused enough to do anything, than a grass roots uprising should take place.

As for the cops and their authority figure, I would say that Detroit cops are the LEAST professional of any LEO that I have witnessed in my life.

I believe it is the only city in the country to allow sub-21 year old officers as well. At best immature children, at the worst a kid with a gun and authority. Not a good mix! My wife and I personally watched them beat a young man who was having a good time at the Stevie Wonder concert a few years back, and I have never been left with such a disgusting taste in my mouth as I had from what I witnessed that day. I remember screaming in the white-shirted duty officer's face that I was going to tell the whole world what they were doing and he just looked at me like I was nuts, almost daring me to report his unethical and criminal behavior. They need to purge the "status quo" from that department, pronto, or they will just continue on that tired old circle of marginality that they have existed in since the 60's.

Dealing with the city hierarchy has kind of given me that "here we go again" attitude you so astutely detected and has taught me to never depend on anything that the city claims it is going to do-they are just incapable of totally executing the game, whatever it is, and I know that.

You see, I haven't given up, I just learned to lower my expectations when I head downtown. That way, when I do see or experience something good, it gives me hope that things will change. I still hope as you do but with a bit more reservation.

See you next year at the Fort, and bring your Canadian friends so we can show them what we built in response to their "aggression"! All you need to bring are some chairs and your enthusiasm.

We will provide the rest.
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Ohudson
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Username: Ohudson

Post Number: 304
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jams, I walked back to West Village from The Wintergarden faster than it took you to ride the bus.

Detroiterbychoice, I was on the opposite side of the street from the guy who smashed the light pole. I heard the car then I saw people scattering to get out of the way. I thought it was great that the pole came right down on him. When I got the Grand Blvd., he was caught and sitting on the curb in hand cuffs.

The show was great, I thought I was screwed when I got all the way downtown (walking) and then it started raining ........ for about two seconds.
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Waymooreland
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Username: Waymooreland

Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwinism: I didn't think that my remarks were hostile, but I see you found the need to attempt to insult my intelligence with cliches (isn't it funny that whenever someone uses the term "think outside the box," they themselves are NOT thinking outside the box?), and suggesting that I am unfamiliar with the concept of customer service. I didn't feel like that much sarcasm was really necessary, it's not like I totally blasted you, but don't worry -- I still love you.

Anyway, I agree 100% that the officer could have/should have periodically explained why he was not allowing people to pass through the turnstiles. However, I don't necessarily disagree with the decision to hold you back. If you would allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment: you were angry that the police didn't let you get on the train at the RenCen because it was already packed. How do you think you would have felt if you had been at the Cobo station with your proposed system in place and the police instructed you not to enter a train that visibly had plenty of space for you and your guests because they had to conserve space for people allegedly waiting at other stations? You'd probably be mad then, too -- and rightfully so! "Who cares about the people at the other stations? I'm here now and there's space on the train and I want to get on" -- that's how you'd be feeling. I doubt you would take comfort in knowing that the the police are efficiently distributing rider entry equally across all stations. You'd just be frustrated about being corralled and prevented from entering a train that's not even full.

Just throwin' that out there.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2836
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Did you posters see any police officers with chevrons or lieutenant bars? Prolly not. Pity.


I saw 1 commander and a lieutenant along Jefferson; plus another lieutenant near the river itself in Hart Plaza. There were a couple of sargents scattered around.

Now that you mention it, that does seem rather low considering the size of this operation.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 2837
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

...how about getting the Academy Cadets out there w/ vests and flashlights and let them earn their badge, so to speak?


Cadets were deployed inside Hart Plaza.
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Sciencefair
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Username: Sciencefair

Post Number: 110
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darwinism: I assumed you were new to the city in that you tried to ride the people mover after the fireworks. I've only lived here for a few years, but I know better than to rely on the PM for anything.
Also, I was referring to your comment about how the River Walk is overhyped. What is overhyped about it? I think it's a tremendous addition to a city that has for many years ignored it's waterfront.
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 768
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like fireworks.
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Darwinism
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Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 759
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bragaboutme: "Wow I can't believe someone would compare Detroit to N.Y., we are two different cities." - Guess what, believe it. I don't like the comparison either, but Detroit gets compared to 'name-your-city-here' hundreds and thousands of times a day. What could you and I do about it? Absolutely nothing, other than to take those comparisons and criticisms constructively and admit it. That's exactly why I shared the Freedom Festival feedback above - to pass along the feelings from a group of friends who are very well-traveled across Canada, across the United States and across Europe. Don't shoot the messenger.

Rrl: That is exactly a large part of the problem, because despite the abundance of police presence ... despite the clumps of 4-5 officers per group, the traffic management is ridiculously bad. And we're not just talking about traffic situation with automobiles - the traffic management for pedestrians is equally as bad, if not worse.

Plymouthres: Thank you for the invitation. I will do my best to campaign on behalf of Fort Wayne next year, as I did for Detroit this year.

Waymooreland: You are welcomed to share a few thoughts that are outside-the-box. Otherwise, you are not providing any solutions. Aside from that, I do not feel any hostility towards you. Playing devil's advocate is perfectly fine, because when I propose an 'Outside-the-Box' suggestion, I expect objections followed by a better idea. Actually, to be absolutely honest, if the PeopleMover officers were to explain the situation to us and describe the solution, we wouldn't mind at all waiting at the Cobo station, or Joe Louis station, or Financial District station, or Millender station, or the Ren Cen station, because the few dozens of us folks who were waiting there just wanted to be moving along. These words are not just from my mouth, they are from the people standing around me that night. Do not doubt that we would take comfort in knowing that the officers were efficiently distributing rider entry equally across all stations. Contrary to your views, we collectively felt that we would not be frustrated at all about being corralled and prevented from entering a train that's not even full, as long as we know that there will be train space for us in the next rotation. The key here is not to fill up at one particular stop, because it would take the entire night to clear just one or two stops. Slow and gradual crowd traffic management is the way people standing around us prefer. Are you in a position to let these people down and upset them? I know I wouldn't want to disappoint these many people, if I were the top dog running the show that night.
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 644
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Had a great time, went to a friends on the river side- 21st floor of 1300 Lafayette , ( im on the city side on 24). Great view, good party, easy access to say the least, Many residents of our building attended and others from Detroit. Royal Oak and GP. All remarked what a great place it is to live and be in ..The naysayers would be very angry to see an environment that works so well downtown.. they dont like to admit it exists.
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Mayor_sekou
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Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 2456
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had fun. Sat and watched right over the tunnel. Walked right on home and played drinking games all night with friends and fam. It was an awesome night to be in Detroit.

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