 
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6696
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:09 pm: |    |
Owned by Hilton Hotels, Hampton Inns are a 4th rate cousin to the parent. They are built at freeway exits or with airport runway views.
Customers come and go at all hours of the night and they specialize in motorcycle clubs, youth soccer teams, rock and roll bands, and weekend flea markets.
jjaba. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6697
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 12:12 pm: | |
Hampton Inns are the preferred lodgings for long-haul truckers, who leave their Reefer frozen food loads running all night just under your room. It is not a hotel suited for your fantzy Grosse Pointe wedding party.
jjaba, LOL. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2405
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 1:45 pm: | |
Well, aren't you a stuff shirt, Mr. Westsider. I happen to like Hampton Inns, Fairfield Inns too.
And I have never met a long-haul trucker or a motor cycle operator who wouldn't stop and talk model trains, WW II warbirds or Michigan football with me.
The_rock ( a/k/a GP Bubba ) |
Raptor56
Member
Username: Raptor56
Post Number: 343
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 4:55 pm: | |
List of St John Hospital locations and outpatient facilities.
http://www.stjohn.org/Maps/Def ault.aspx
Within the past 15 or so years, St john has bought Macomb Hospital in Warren, Oakland Hospital in Madison Heights, Providence, North Shores in Harrison Township and a whole host of smaller out patient and urgent care facilities. They also have a large presence in Port Huron with their River District Hospital (not to be confused with the now Karmanos owned Riverview hospital in Detroit). |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6703
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 6:08 pm: | |
Rock, great, you sleep over a reefer truck with diesel running all night, and you sleep when 50 motocycles power up at 6am dawn to hit the road.
Try sleeping when the visiting cheerleaders do their warmup routines in the hallway at midnight outside your room, and they decide room 412 is the party when you are in 410.
Good luck. Yikes. That's not GP, that's East Pointe.
jjaba. |
Soomka1
Member
Username: Soomka1
Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 7:35 pm: | |
Jjaba, I love the images that your description elicits. If you posted that on Yahoo Travel, you would bring down the chain. When I was a high school punk, the only place we had around there to have a "hotel party" was the Shorian Motor Inn. I think the longest we made it before getting kicked out was 45 minutes. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2410
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 7:57 pm: | |
jjaba, old sock, all I can say is that "we will leave the light on for you." |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6713
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 10:15 pm: | |
Soomka1, welcome to the Forum. You tell it exactly like it tis.
jjaba stays in Hampton Inns, nothing fancier than that on his budget, but this is not about jjaba, this is about Grosse Pointe!
Buffy and Huntington can't house the wedding party at Hampton Inn. Aunt Gladys can't host her 50th anniversary there either. When The Rock has to house a visiting foresic skid scientist, he's not staying at no Hampton Inn, my man.
jjaba. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 4:03 pm: | |
I wish somebody in Grosse Pointe would take another stab at turning an old, larger home into an inn. Not a bed and breakfast, but a formal inn. I know the idea has been floated in the past in Grosse Pointe, but has always failed. The Grosse Pointers of old hated the idea of a public hotel/inn drawing in anyone and everyone to wander around their community. So they would squash these proposals, then watch another estate crumble to the ground in order to make way for a subdivision. In retrospect, it was so short sighted and sad. There was a time when Grosse Pointe could have truly been a destination for out-of-towners and a good deal of the historic fabric saved. Although a very nice community, it now doesn’t necessarily have much to offer a tourist.
But anyway, that is all behind us, and I think the Grosse Pointe populous is a little more open minded now. There still would be obstacles, like zoning, neighbors and parking, but it has a greater viability now. I would hope that something like this would be considered before raising another large home. Say, the Simon house or one on Windmill Point. Repurposing never seems to come to mind when there is a developer with a bag full of cash at the door. Seeing homes razed for the project at the War Memorial was sad.
I think part of where I am going with this is that something like an inn on an old property would not only provide a better feel of the community to visitors, but also offer a better backdrop for things like weddings – a place where someone would not just want to stay, but hold an event.
I actually worry a little about the viability of a high-end boutique hotel in the Village. Who’s going to be staying there? Grosse Pointers are historically cheap – even those with money. They will drive 60 miles to save $10 on undershirts. If they have family coming into town, they aren’t necessarily going to recommend someplace too pricey. And that really just leaves business travelers, which could be limited. So the place would really need to have something to offer in of itself. (the rooftop restaurant may be popular, though)
On the other hand (and sad to say), I think the Hampton Inn is a very viable project. People need a place to stay when family is in the hospital, and hospitals hold conferences, etc that would probably make use of something like that. To boot, a Hampton Inn is right in the price range of a place that a typical Grosse Pointer would recommend to family and friends. I don’t necessarily like the idea of a chain hotel, but I think it is very viable for that location.
But that’s just my two cents. Whenever I hear “hotel” and “modern interiors” I yawn. They are all starting to look the same. Better to distinguish yourself, I say. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7040
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 5:28 pm: | |
Providence, I agree with your viewpoint 100%. One home that comes to mind is one of the last of the big estates. It's that house facing the lake about 1/4 mile south of Vernier. It is a Georgian style home (don't know the name of the estate) with twin projecting wings, and vast acreage facing the lake. It has a large (rather faded) American flag above the entranceway.
It would be ideal to what you describe, since any future owner would likely raze the house and subdivide the property. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4996
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 5:58 pm: | |
Well just about every historic house in GP is owner-occupied, and few of any are in a position where they could go on the market, be purchased (probably for a lower price like you'd find today) and be converted to an Inn. Very few locations lend themselves to this, because most of the historic homes are next to other old homes. South of the Village on streets like St. Clair and Notre Dame there are well-located turn of the century homes, but few exceed 3,000 sf here, so they would not make good inns. Near the Hill/Cottage hospital there are a couple large homes near the corner of Lewiston-Muir/Ridge that I could almost see used as lodging, but they are all happily owner-occupied and well-kept, so there is just no opportunity for this to happen. Just about every neighborhood with large old homes is comfortably established as a good residential neighborhood.
Providence, I think you may have been referencing the great historic home on the lake in GPF (which was almost moved to Lakeland in GPC) that was torn down and replaced with new construction as part of the War Memorial's manuever to lift zoning restrictions. That was just bad all around. I could have seen that home being turned into a B&B-- a great destination for tourists (and I wonder if that would have solved the War Memorial's situation?), but without the WM's idiocy, that situation would have never even arisen.
I think both the Hampton and the City Flats will do well. The GPs, for the first time ever, are hyping themselves as a destination to visit, and more people are okay with them not being a secret. I think it will be successfully marketed to visitors who might spend one night in downtown Detroit, and then one night in GP, i.e. Heritage tourism is at an all time high and there are historic sites aplenty in the City and GP-- that is one market they will tap. They will get some weddings and events, and probably make great money off the restaurant.
I don't know where the stingy generalization came from. I see the way that GPers shell out for club memberships, services/upkeep of their homes, and dining out etc [of course we're talking about the richer half here], and I could not agree with your assessment.
I also don't understand your comment about the loss of historic fabric. While this may be true right along the lakeshore in some places, especially in GP Shores and the Farms, which are now replete with new construction on lots of former mansions, very little of the cities' history away from lakeshore drive has been destroyed. There were gains in density around/after WWII as some new construction filled in remaining lots in between the 1910-1930 homes that filled the majority of the lots (south of Moross), but the presence of the occasional newer house does not take away from the history that's already there. With the exception of Lakeshore Dr., I don't see your point. And even though most of those places are ugly by our standards, when I bring visitors through they still oogle at them (because they are large and gaudy). There are still a nice handful of intact estates on large plots (i.e. Gatzaros' home near Cadieux and Jefferson), and there is still Windmill Pt. Dr., so one can still get a flavor of the less-dense, old GP which didn't make sense to keep as it became profitable to split up those large chunks of land.
Gistok-- I have no idea why you predict that that home will be demolished. That is coming out of thin air. By all accounts it is in great condition and unless some wacko purchases it, I think in our postmodern society that design would be treasured. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7043
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 6:51 pm: | |
Mackinaw... even Henry Ford II's Roy Chapin mansion was in great shape before he moved out and the unthinkable happened... he destroyed it for a condo subdivision.
Look at every other estate along Lakeshore!! They've been demolished. Even the "Spanish Hacienda" (as I call it) with the winding drive, is a replacement. It replaced the Scripps-Whitcombe mansion.
Besides the Roy Chapin mansion, the MacAuley mansion, the Glancy mansion, the Dodge mansion, etc., are all long gone.
If that surviving mansion (it has to have at least 8 acres of prime lakefront grounds) ever came up for sale, are you telling me that there's only a remote chance that a greedy developer wouldn't snatch it up to demo and subdivide/develop it for $$$ ?
If that house ever did come up for sale, I bet there may be several people interested in buying it, but if so, the highest bidder would likely be a developer.
Sorry, but I think you're wrong. Sadly, history is on my side.
(Message edited by Gistok on June 19, 2008) |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4997
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 8:34 pm: | |
That history, which we both know about, was made from around 1950-1980, for the most part. Yes there is a lot of new construction recently on Lakeshore, but nothing has been razed for awhile-- those are replacements of replacements.
The revival architecture of the mansions of the roaring 20s was not valued adequately during that time, as developers and city planners had only efficiency in mind. Subdivisions could have easily been built around the old house (and you see this on many of the lakeside courts in the City of GP, and on some plots between Kercheval or GP Blvd and the Lakeshore in the Farms), but at that time, everything was razed, including the architecturally important mansions. In the case of the Dodge mansions, it was at the request of the Dodge family, who apparently thought no one else was good enough to live in Rose Terrace-- thus we have Rose Terrace (the street) and Dodge Place.
I think those days are gone. With the exception of the recent War Memorial fiasco and homes that have burnt, name me some notable homes that have been razed in the last decade or two.
Will a few homes be built on that plot alongside the mansion you speak of? There's a small chance of that. Will it be torn down (or turned into a B&B)? No. You can't predict that it, or any other home, will just disappear the way they did in the middle of last century, because those days have passed. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 9:22 pm: | |
Ok – well I guess could have provided better explanation of my comments. As for the “historic fabric” comment, what I meant goes along with Gistok’s point. Grosse Pointe’s grandest estates are gone. And because of their size, craftsmanship and detail, they once defined the area above and beyond the parts of the Farms, City and Park that define it today. Those were the types of places that could have drawn people from all over the country/world to awe at their presence. Now I am not going to be completely naïve and say that they could have all been saved - the 1950’s to 70’s had little tolerance for “old,” large homes (White Elephants, as they were called). But good old fashioned Grosse Pointe stubbornness is mostly what led to their demise - that and an eye on short-term profits/tax gains realized by subdividing these lots. If a few of them were saved and repurposed, it would have had a big impact. To illustrate this point – the Edsel and Eleanor Ford Estate draws people to visit the area. If there were ten other properties like it, Grosse Pointe wouldn’t be a place to go for an afternoon; it would be a place to go for the weekend. It would have made Grosse Pointe’s festivals shine. It would have meant people spending money on rooms, shopping in the Village/Hill and dining in restaurants. Because of the concentration of estates and the presence of the waterfront, Grosse Pointe was for a time uniquely positioned to take a very different path that would have kept home values high and businesses thriving. But the general consensus used to be that concept would ruin the community (I respectfully disagree, if it was done within limits)
Now I don’t really believe in dwelling on the past, but I do believe in learning from it. The 80’s was sad because we should have learned by then and still, many of the last remaining “grand” estates came down. Today, there are still many great homes left – Windmill Point, Vendome, parts of Lakeshore and some hidden gems like the Shelden house on S. Deeplands (lots of property!). Many are occupied by families that really care for them, but after those families are gone or are ready to move on, I don’t have much confidence that buyers are lining up at the door to buy and occupy these homes. It’s not really that they are too big, but rather too much maintenance for today’s buyers. And newer money just tends to have more modern tastes. So I think still there are going to be plenty of opportunities for this sort of repurposing down the road – if the cities (i.e. people) will permit it. There was an excellent Victorian mansion in the 1990’s on lakeshore that buyers wanted to make into a bed and breakfast. The city nixed the idea, and of course it came down and was subdivided. Without a little activism, homes are going to continue to come down.
There was one that was on the market forever (maybe still is) that would have been a great location on Windmill Point. It was a beautiful Tudor mansion. I mentioned the Simon house – that is still on the Market:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/d ownload.php?id=5242
$3.9 million is expensive, but compare that to the proposed project. Although it won’t exactly yield a 100 rooms. As mentioned, the Gatzaros' home would also be a good spot (with a little more landscaping in front). If that house ever goes on the market is has the advantage of being too narrow to subdivide.
The GP Historic Society drives me a bit batty. They are great archivers, but not big on activism. They will make a statement when they think the loss of a property is bad, but not much more than that. They should be building a war chest to save the occasional property, either by activism or purchase. I bet it would boost their membership… and donations.
My point on Grosse Pointers being cheap has a limited context. They will spend on house upkeep, brand name clothes and cars. But my experience has been that many are bargain hunters. They’d rather go to Costco than pay a few bucks more at a local store for everyday items. I can see people wanting to put family up at a nice hotel… but not too nice. There’s also a psychology of not being too austintatious that plays into that.
That’s just my experience, though, and I don’t mind being disagreed with.
Gistok – I think the house you speak of is owned by one of the Ford daughters. It’s kept up. But again, you never know what the next generation will want to do. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4999
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 9:48 pm: | |
That link didn't work for me-- which house (what street) is the Simon house.
The point about Lakeshore Drive totally changing is spot on (and we agree that things really went awry in the middle of last century), but to me, Lakeshore has never defined Grosse Pointe. It's the tree-lined streets with the eclectic homes, the miniature downtown districts, and, as for mansions, it's Windmill Pointe, Beverly, the lower blocks of GPC, Kenwood, and the Ridge Road corridor. Maybe it's because I've lived after those Lakeshore homes are gone, and GP Shores strikes me as unappealing and bland, but there is more than enough history and beautiful, massive homes left as far as I'm concerned. From an economic standpoint, I can understand how all the huge plots got chewed up, it's just a shame that no one thought it through and decided to build around the old mansions.
I agree that a strong historic society would be good-- it could have saved the house the War Memorial wrecked.
Which Victorian on Lakeshore was torn down in the 90s? |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:21 pm: | |
Hmm – not sure where that link came from. Here’s the right one:
http://www.kayagney.com/highli ght.asp?key=147
And don’t get me wrong, the eclectic architecture and tree-lined streets is also what defines Grosse Pointe for me – and I absolutely love it. I too only know modern Grosse Pointe. And that is why I see the old stuff seen in photos as lost historic fabric. It was lost for future generations. And despite being so long ago, that loss resonates with many people. Grosse Pointe is great, but I know so many people whose families have been around for generations and they act like their on a sinking ship by living there. Every time another house goes down or an ugly one is built, they start talking about how they need to get out of there. Improvements are almost lost on them. It’s kind of sad and drives me a bit crazy. I’m one of those people who believes if you don’t like something, do something about it. Metro Detroiters ought to know that moving does very little.
I spent five years living in Newport, RI. I think it really altered my perspective on Grosse Pointe. Newport also lost many old estates, but also many were saved and they now are not only beautiful, but they are major economic drivers. The other being the waterfront – which Grosse Pointe also has.And Newport also mixes in lots of midsize residential property. For a while coming home to Grosse Pointe depressed me a little, but now I really see it as still having tons of potential. It is truly unique to the area.
On the point about GP as a tourist destination, I feel there still needs to be a bit more for people to “do,”. You can go to the Ford Estate, Provencal-Weir House, shop on Kercheval, and have dinner, but beyond that it really is just driving around. The parks are private and there is no lake access for visitors. House tours are sporadic. That’s why I’m kind of thinking that a hotel/inn needs something of a “destination in itself” element to it. I would think some greenspace to let visitors relax and maybe a spa would be key. If the hotel had access to a boat dock, that would also be neat. Either have boat rentals or lake tours associated with the hotel… or both. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
I wish I could remember the details on the Victorian house. I'll see if I can look it up. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7046
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:30 pm: | |
Being a middle aged fart, I grew up as a kid in the 1960's living in Detroit near Balduck Park. Luckily my father and my best friends mother always used to take us for a cruise down Lakeshore Dr. back when many of the great mansions were still there... the MacAuley, Glancy, Chapin, Rose Terrace, etc.
As kids we were spellbound by their grandeur... it was like looking at rows of castles and palaces lined up along a stunning lakefront vista... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7047
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:39 pm: | |
Today my 3 favorite mansion lined streets in the Grosse Pointes are 1) Kenwood, 2) the first 2 blocks of Three Mile Dr. north of Jefferson, and 3) Windmill Pointe.
Although there's stretches of Touraine, Vendome, Washington, Clovely, Lincoln and Provencal that are no slouches when it comes to mansions.
And even some of the streets with lesser homes (such as Tonnacour) are lined with more modest homes of multi-millionaires who have downsized from the hassles and pretentions of huge mansions/estates. I know of 2 families on that street with assets in the 10's of millions, but they don't want to show it. So a homeowners wealth is NOT always determined by the size of the mansion. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:42 pm: | |
I'm envious. That must have been quite a site! |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:57 pm: | |
That's a funny thing about Grosse Pointe - I also know of a few very well-to-do few families in modest dwellings (relatively speaking). The big house idea just doesn't appeal to them. I also find that money is a very, very private thing to them. Usually something I see with generational money, but not always. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5000
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:58 pm: | |
Well now I really agree with you, Providence. A) people do need to take more action to create the sort of community they want, rather than just complain. B) GP does need a little more public access for non-residents to the water, and more things to do-- the Village and Hill ought to have some restaurants/bars open past 9. Thankfully GP Park has some really neat late-night places that are anything but typically suburban, too. I also agree that a B&B could be a destination in itself, but like I said earlier, few good locations come to mind. I see a lot of promise in the City Flats development-- it will highlight the Village, probably bring in some new retail tenants, and could be cool enought to be its own destination (in tandem with the Village).
I think we're re-entering a time where downtowns are key to everything, and the Village, specifically, has a lot of developments planned that will change its character. That is something to be excited about, and something that GP could capitalize on in giving it some extra flair (i.e. something that can be enjoyed for those that don't live there in addition to residents).
I really would like to visit Newport. Windmill Pt. Drive has to remind you a bit of it, no? Except for the home sizes in Newport are so much bigger.
There you have it...post #5000, discussing my old home neighborhood.
(Message edited by mackinaw on June 20, 2008) |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:59 pm: | |
And I'm right with you on those streets! |
Kathinozarks
Member
Username: Kathinozarks
Post Number: 1320
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:31 pm: | |
Mack and Provide,
I'm not sure I follow. When did GPer's decide they want/need money from tourists?
Public access to the water? What? No way. I thought GPer's just want to have a nice community in which to raise their kids.
Could you just see a bunch of tourists driving up and down the streets, gawking at the mansions and people out doing yard work or playing with their kids? I don't think so.
I just don't like the idea. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:35 pm: | |
Congrats on your 5000th post! I’m so humbled here with my 24th.
I know from your past posts that I am usually on the same page as you. Despite my tangent about repurposing existing properties, and concerns with viability, I too am excited about the prospect of the new hotel. It will be a very good thing for the Village and should springboard some additional development. That area will make an excellent anchor for the community.
Windmill Point does have a little bit of Newport in it (Bellevue Ave.) – but I appreciate both for having their respective character. Grosse Pointe is still home to me. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:46 pm: | |
I think it could use a touch of tourism as an economic stimulus and preservation engine. It will always primarily server the families that live there. I'm not thinking in the scope of drawing hundreds of thousands tourists on tour buses with binoculars. I see a lot of places here on the east coast that pull off a nice balance which is why I don't shy away from the suggestion. Years ago I may have had a similar negative reaction. And that is a big part of what makes the concept an uphill battle. But bringing in some outside money could really help to improve taxes in the community, and consequently bring more/better services to those who live there. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 11:49 pm: | |
I don't think an inn here and a recreational activity there will turn the community on its head. But the idea often sends residents into a panic. Remember Grosse Pointe had inns back in the early 1900's. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5001
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 1:29 am: | |
Balance, indeed.
And yeah, GP was originally a resort town.
Providence-- so you're originally from GP and then moved east-- where are you located now? I just finished one round of academics at UM and will do the next on the east coast. So the next seven weeks are my last stint of living in GP (City of) for a long while. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 8:47 am: | |
I went out east for school, then my (now) wife went out there for school. After college we both got in an alternating cycle of work that has kept us out here. Our plan is to move back when we reach a good point and get the experience in our fields that we are looking for. Probably in the next few years. We want to be in GP when we get our family started. I may also pick up my masters here in the interim. I work in Boston, but we live in Providence. Take the commuter rail to work every day! |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 544
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 10:30 am: | |
quote:But bringing in some outside money could really help to improve taxes in the community, and consequently bring more/better services to those who live there.
P- while I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have Rose Terrace, The Sycamores, Dodge Place...etc still around. And I personally think it would be great (if they were not owner occupied) that there were some sort of mansion tour like out at Newport of those homes. However, I'm not getting where you're coming from on this theme that the GPs must reach for "outside" economic activity. It would seem to me, considering the abysmal Michigan economy, the tax base is doing just fine. The Farms where I happen to live, is running a budget surplus and has reduced taxes. They're throwing money (some private some public) at vanity projects like new tennis courts, platform tennis courts, and warming center for the soon to be installed ice rink. That is on top of the total renovation of the harbor and the new community building. The Park has built an amazing activities center with a movie theater and initiated a bond issue to redevelop areas of Jefferson and the cabbage patch. The Shores, Woods and City are all doing or have done major park and infrastructure upgrades. Two new libraries have been built and the central branch is about to get a major upgrade. The schools are practically in class by themselves. Basically, I can't think off hand of too many other areas that have the luxury of funding projects to upgrade the private parks ( a luxury in and of themselves) and complete the various infrastructure/renewal projects right now.
Most communities are just trying to figure out how to survive without lay offs and service cuts, GP is trying to figure out how to knock off the International Academy and take the top public high school in the state honors.
With regard to services, I can't think of a 'service' that is lacking in the GPs right now. I mean I don't even take my garbage to the curb.
I guess I'm just confused on what what quality of life issues you think are lacking that would be served by developing a tourist trade to capture outside investment? |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5002
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:03 pm: | |
Economic activity from the outside [or tourists] would benefit merchants the most. You're right that it's hard to improve upon the current services [though I will say that some roads need to be rebuilt, which they are doing in spots in GP City].
You mentioned the Park and its renovation of Jefferson-- that is a huge question mark right now. You said it was a bond issue-- do you know anything else about it? Some perfectly nice storefronts got torn down for no apparent reason. Also, the plot in front of the library is also still sitting there.
What are everyone's thoughts on the new townhouses on Lakepointe which are replacing the traditional minimal-setback flats. The company who's building them has a resume of building in places like Canton and OC, so I think it was a bad idea to let them build in that traditional neighborhood because the designs they brought forth really break up the neighborhood.
Is GP really considering a choice/magnet school with admissions standards? I haven't heard about that yet. I always thought it was really cool that South rates so highly and is just a traditional public school without admissions.
Providence-- my future situation could mirror yours. There are advantages to living in both places. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 7048
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 2:19 pm: | |
Higgs1634,
What do you think GPF will or should do with the large undeveloped prime acreage at Mack/Moross? |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 211
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 3:21 pm: | |
I live up the street from the new townhouse site on Lakepointe, and was a bit puzzled by the choice of locatin. Why tear down a bunch of perfectly good houses when there is a big, empty lot sitting right there on the corner? I suppose there is nothing really wrong with them, but I wonder how well they will sell. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 547
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 3:32 pm: | |
I'd be fine with an expansion of the park and ball fields. Currently the dog park is back there, but sort of an afterthought. rip down that awful Kroger and do some landscaping...maybe a nice walking trail loop. In this economy, I'd think that'd be better use than the city building retail right now. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 5008
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 3:52 pm: | |
Cleary they should not rush and build something bad or something that will go vacant, Higgs, but I think when the market heats up again something ought to get built on just about all of the green space there. It's a really awkward place to have a walking trail loop, no? Especially when you can walk all over the neighborhoods.
Otter-- it is puzzling, but I guess GPPark didn't want to market that empty lot because it has plans either for civic use of it, or its part of their big plans for new stuff on Jefferson. I think the Park was happy to see some investment in that neighborhood to break up the affordable rental thing that was going on, and they're probably hoping that these will be owner-occupied. They didn't seem to mind the aesthetic awkwardness.
I know that this doesn't change much, but you'd hate to see too many of those rentals go by the wayside. That neighborhood is invaluable for providing accessibility to the services and schools of GP, as you know Otter. |
Providence
Member
Username: Providence
Post Number: 28
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 3:01 pm: | |
Wasn’t the land at Mack and Moross originally being allocated for a community center (many years back)? Then I thought issues arose when the plan came to open it only to Grosse Pointers (the five cities). The challenge was not only getting all five points to pay for it, but also keeping it “exclusive” public property. So the idea hit a major roadblock, but I thought that is why the land was being snatched up and cleared. The city owned the neighboring houses and was waiting for the Kroger lease to expire to begin planning. I believe because the community center idea became unfeasible, land is now “more open” to development considerations, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at least some of it is still being held for civic use, as Mackinaw mentioned.
This is all just recollection to me, but the puzzle pieces fit.
Higgs – as far as where I was going with my comments, I’m not trying to make GP out to be some community in dire straights or that is in desperate need for money (especially in context of the current economy), but I do know that one of the biggest complaints from residents is the taxes. Because of that, there’s been a decent amount of turnover in property ownership within the pointes. It may not be forever that the citizen’s willingly put up with “vanity” projects being done while high taxes are in place. Just because it is a bedroom community doesn’t mean that the cities can’t do things to diversify their income and alleviate the strain on residents – especially if the opportunity exists. They’re working hard to do that with the Village, but why not consider other areas. As I said earlier, the community is unique. Why not take advantage of that unique nature to draw a few people in and spend money.
And while the larger homes left do not seem to be in immediate danger, Grosse Pointe is in large part a middle class community. Demand for those homes is just barely sustainable. Believe me – I’d prefer to see them owner occupied more than anything else. But the preservationist in me would also want to see reuse strategies considered when demolition plans come up. Yeah – I’m throwing out ideas like creating inns/bed and breakfasts, or having homes set aside as historic sites, but you could even try things like breaking larger homes into condos more fitting of the market demand, rather than just tearing down for something else. Since there really aren’t current sites in danger (that I know of), I know I speak a bit in hypotheticals, but given the community’s history of rushing demolition plans, I wish more people thought that way so that there were more regulations and strategies in place for approaching preservation. Any time a place of even modest historical significance comes down, every GPer’s home values suffer a bit. In my lifetime, I’ve seen lots of places come down before the community has time to rally or even react. For that, I really think the historical society needs a better action plan in place for mobilizing community efforts and bringing a discussion to the table. Their statements always seem reactionary to me. You can’t say “we shouldn’t tear that down” without bringing any other ideas to the table; or scramble to find buyers after a developer has already had the opportunity to show the city a plan that points out all the extra tax money they will get by taking a place down.
My point in bringing up the old grand estates isn’t just to mourn about them being gone or throw out “what if’s” had things been different; but rather it is to say – “hey, we lost those – that sucked – what did we learn?”. Personally, I think that believing everything is fine now is a risky path. I have a lot of family in GP and I just want it to be as good or better as the place I grew up in when I move back to raise my family. |
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