Discuss Detroit » Archives - July 2008 » Salvage or Theft ? (Grande Ballroom) « Previous Next »
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Leob
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Username: Leob

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According to popular belief and the owners, concrete panels and crests were stolen some years ago from the Grande Ballroom.

I'll open for public comment recent events:

This is an ad I found on a popular classified web site this week....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Detroit's Grande Ballroom had 14 windows with this architectural stone crest above each one. You can look in archive photos and see them. They are all sold off to private party except I have the last one. It depicts 2 griffins with a shield in between. It weighs about 300 lbs and can still hang since it has the iron hook piece in back which attached it to the building, or lean on a wall as a garden stone. I am moving out of state and think it should stay in Michigan. It could be valued at much more however I would like $600 or best offer before I leave. If this gets no response I will put it on ebay for local pick up- no shipping.


crest1


crest2
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Alley
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Username: Alley

Post Number: 271
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would definitely be interested in hearing how this guy acquired these. Hm
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 4446
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The DPD might be, too. They got back the lion's heads from Lee Plaza.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1832
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He obviously damaged it in taking it off. He should be prosecuted.
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Sciencefair
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Username: Sciencefair

Post Number: 99
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is there contact information on the site?
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 236
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please tell the police about this. PLEASE!
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Django
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Username: Django

Post Number: 716
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wouldnt be to hard convince someone that they have something for sale and obtained it legally. Most theives running around dont have computers. Id bet this guy has been had, but who knows. Id be interested in finding out.. Its pretty stupid to go steal something then put it on the net.
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Registeredguest
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Username: Registeredguest

Post Number: 369
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like he also salvaged some bricks and a nice wrought iron railing.

It's great that he's protecting our treasurers for all those future generations who have the desire to decorate their drywall palaces with little remnants of how great Detroit used to be...
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, those were on the Grande:

http://www.thegrandeballroom.c om/marquee_50s.jpg
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Rax
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Username: Rax

Post Number: 349
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe someone should buy them for $600 and return them to the rightful owner?
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Diehard
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Username: Diehard

Post Number: 510
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"They are all sold off to private party..."

Who, if this was legit, should have asked some questions. The building's still standing; that should be a big red flag. Wonder who did the selling and if it was done from the trunk of a car?
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Rax
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Username: Rax

Post Number: 353
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just contacted the seller. Very interesting.
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Django
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Username: Django

Post Number: 721
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, what did they say?
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Dianeinaustin
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Username: Dianeinaustin

Post Number: 38
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, don't act like that.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 240
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like the "private party" is in receipt of stolen goods.

The laws need to be changed regarding architectural theft in Detroit. Heavy, heavy fines.
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Django
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Username: Django

Post Number: 727
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Theres a place almost on the corner of McDougall just on the north side of Forest (or it could be Warren, whichever is a one way heading East) This guy buys all kinds of stripped out stuff. Main sellers are addicts, main buyers seem to come with trucks and trailers from the burbs. Never a name on any of the trucks Ive seen.
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Leob
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Username: Leob

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remember though folks, innocent until proven guilty.

I corresponded with the owner on behalf of the Church that currently owns the building. We made the "no questions asked offer" that she donate it back in exchange for a write off receipt.
She declined. After notifying the church of the outcome and cc'ng the appropriate parties the item was removed from sale and is no longer "available"....
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Wood
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Username: Wood

Post Number: 67
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wish someone who corresponded with her would post her address so that a private party could go there and acquire the piece from her backyard and return it to the church.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1373
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

99% She is moving it from her house after you called her.
You should of said It would great on my backyard wall, When can I check it out to buy it.
Then you go to her place and have the cops come in shortly after.
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Django
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Username: Django

Post Number: 729
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was she asked who she bought it from? Like Diehard said above about the sellers working out of a car trunk, or similar.
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Dianeinaustin
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Username: Dianeinaustin

Post Number: 39
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I tried to look on EBay but am not very familiar with it at all. Anyone who is good at searching their site should look for the piece since she said she would post it there. Can EBay be advised of the potential sale of stolen property?
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 178
Registered: 04-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Church that owns the building has a duty to press charges. There is more than enough incriminating evidence of possession of stolen property in the ad. It is a crime to not report a crime, by the way.
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Chuckjav
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Username: Chuckjav

Post Number: 586
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Salvage or Theft; in this case, what's the difference?
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 246
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The difference is: legal or illegal.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2545
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Receiving stolen property could be a possible charge from the prosecutor. Works well when the police don't have evidence that a person stole something, but they do have a person in possession something stolen.
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Chuckjav
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Username: Chuckjav

Post Number: 587
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding the question: salvage or theft?

Please....the two go hand-in-hand; like peanut butter & jelly.

Without all the disreputable salvage operators, thieves would be out of business.

That's all.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 1589
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please....the two go hand-in-hand;

How so? Thats like saying Walmart and shoplifting are responsible for one another.

This person knew this was stolen some years back, thinking the heat was off and nobody gave a shit about Detroit, they figured they'd turn a fast buck on the way out. Scumbag.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 285
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Seems like the police chief could use some good publicity. This case would get national coverage if solved, I promise.
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Detroitteacher
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Username: Detroitteacher

Post Number: 1293
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found nothing on Ebay about this item. Will keep looking.
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Miketeevee
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Username: Miketeevee

Post Number: 52
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did you try looking on Craigslist? The original post mentioned a "popular classified web site."

Just a thought.
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Makeer
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Username: Makeer

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find it amusing that in a city where the school board, the police department and most of the politicians are criminals you want to make this guy into one also. He has a piece of stone work with some history to this area, he wants to leave it here , but wants a honest busk for it. Whats the big deal? Call the police, check Ebay, Graigs List, stop him at all cost. Give me a break. You want to buy good if not it's not your place to make it the crime of the century.
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Kid_dynamite
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Username: Kid_dynamite

Post Number: 569
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we have here a great candidate for Brilliant Post of the Week.
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Downriviera
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Username: Downriviera

Post Number: 650
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Makeer,

Welcome to the forum. I don't think you understand the passion locals have for this landmark. Ground zero for bands like the MC5 and the Stooges, just to name a couple. Many greats played there. People come from around the world to visit the Grande. Its like the pyramids or Taj Mahal.
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Rjlj
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Username: Rjlj

Post Number: 566
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, drove by the Grande last weekend and I believe there is one last crest on the Grande but I bet that will be gone soon. Just goes to show how important of a place it is. Not to mention, this is how Detroiter's make an "honest busk" these days so I guess it is OK to steal.
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Bigglenlake
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Username: Bigglenlake

Post Number: 53
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 6:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Makeer,

Welcome to the forum. I don't think you understand the passion locals have for this landmark. Ground zero for bands like the MC5 and the Stooges, just to name a couple. Many greats played there. People come from around the world to visit the Grande. Its like the pyramids or Taj Mahal."

And I think we have one for Hyperbole.
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Eastsidedame
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Username: Eastsidedame

Post Number: 334
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 3:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know the penalty if caught scrapping a building? Does a person have the right to shoot someone on their property who's ripping them off...and ask questions later? I am completely serious.

I'm just interested in how seriously law makers take this crime. The police can't enforce what our law makers Can't or won't legislate.

Discussion is important to solve a problem, but action needs to follow or it's just complaining. I'm looking for ways to make this stop.

My dad was a bricklayer in Detroit from the 30s as a kid to retirement in the 70s. He called these rip-off artists, "vultures". Picking at the dead. Urban vultures. Pretty accurate, I'd say.

I have to echo Bigglenlake's thoughts. This is a passionate subject for anyone who cares about our music history, as well as our old theaters.

The Grande, along with the Eastown are a part of our music history as well. These buildings are to rock as Hitsville USA is to Motown. It was bad enough when they were boarded up and abandoned. Now they're being methodically raped into unrecognizable hulks, bit by bit.

I look at it like this: This is our old-school street art on a 3D canvas. The unknown souls who created these are long dead. You just know these buildings weren't just slapped together in a couple of days.

Detroit may not have much right now, but these buildings are definitely in the "asset" column. They give us a reminder our former greatness, the talent that lived and worked here, and the inspiration to reinvent ourselves, once again.
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Leob
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Username: Leob

Post Number: 121
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I attempted to work with this individual on behalf of the current building owners. She was offered the opportunity to donate it back in exchange for a tax write off receipt for the perceived value - no questions asked.
She declined, removed the item from Craig's list and claims she is no longer in possession of the crest. The owners have not yet made a decision to pursue the issue at this writing.
There is some legislation in Lansing pending on metal theft, I'll try to post details of the bill.
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Detroitderek
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Username: Detroitderek

Post Number: 59
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got to agree with eastsidedame ( and add the Vanity Ballroom to the list ) . What DOES the State do exactly to protect it's historical buildings? What is the penalty for stripping them? How do we as Michiganders protect these sites?
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2590
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not against the law to tear down a building on a historical the National Register, or State, or City (that is, assuming you have a demo permit).
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 1342
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm going to run out and buy it before the cops get on the trail. (I'm in no hurry)

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