Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Philadelphia paper wonders why nobody mentions Conrail in Big 3 bail-out talk « Previous Next »
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Flyingj
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Username: Flyingj

Post Number: 366
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a legit question. Both matters involve "Too Big To Fail" companies(Penn Central aka New York Central & Pennsylvania RR) who were up against foreign competitors-in Michigan, Grand Trunk Western-owned by the Canadian National ergo the Canadian Gov't. Conrail dealt with "the union question" successfully & ended up being a huge success

http://www.philly.com/dailynew s/opinion/20081211_Remember_Co nrail__Think_Concar.html
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Savannah
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Username: Savannah

Post Number: 91
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You may be right FlyingJ. You have a good point. The only thing that may cause problems with your argument is that railroads have a defacto monopoly. This could be a case of apples and oranges.
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Flanders_field
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Username: Flanders_field

Post Number: 1390
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"So what should we do about the Big Three? If you follow the Conrail model, have a government-managed bankruptcy. Make sure investors, suppliers, employees and the public are protected. Make appropriate targeted investment loans."

LOL!!


Yeah, that gigantic tombstone planted in front of Michigan Avenue is testament to Conrail's success, and I was one of the victims of it. Conrail wasn't in the manufacturing business, and neither are the airlines who emerged after they filed for Chapter 11. I note that the author of the article is "general counsel" for Conrail. Apparently the company still exists, that is interesting.


(Message edited by Flanders_field on December 14, 2008)
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 1887
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't confuse the state of the MCS with the fortunes of Conrail. And I thought Conrail made money for the government just as the Chrysler bailout and the airline loan guarantees did?
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Flanders_field
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Username: Flanders_field

Post Number: 1392
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was no confusion on my part,as I highlighted the word "employees"

Conrail wiped out hundreds of jobs here, and deprived me and many others of qualifying for a pension, when we were within a few months of vesting. It took them nearly 5 years to finally reimburse me for their payroll deductions for my railroad retirement after I was laid off.
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 1889
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, you editied your original post after my response so that it now doesn't make sense. The confusion has nothing to do with employees but instead the fate of the MCS. That thing would be empty today no matter what the outcome of the bankruptcy was.

Sorry you lost your pension so close to retirement. You're not alone. In the end, a bankrupt PennCentral made money for the government, so did Chrysler, and so did the airline loan guarantees.
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1623
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have seen similar questions from Steel employees and former employees. Steel was another one of those "Too Big to Fail". I believe that the Steel industry did get a bailout and still failed though. If memory serves one of them actually failed immediately after receiving bailout cash.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4378
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I very much agree with that piece, and a successful consolidation in that manner could stand to benefit Detroit a ton.
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Flanders_field
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Username: Flanders_field

Post Number: 1394
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The uniqueness of railroad retirement is the fact that you could work for any railroad and continue working towards a pension. Also railroad unemployment benefits were MUCH lower and paid bi-weekly at a flat rate regardless of earnings, compared to unemployment benefits obtained through the state's unemployment agency.

There were no other railroads that had operations in the Midwest that were hiring, such as the GTW, DTI, ect... and Conrail had absorbed the smaller ones over time, such as the Detroit Terminal and a few others.

My point was that Conrail did not protect the jobs of their employees while under the "government umbrella" nor did they provide us with ANY outplacement assistance, for example as Stroh's did for their employees in the mid-80s.
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Flanders_field
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Username: Flanders_field

Post Number: 1395
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, December 15, 2008 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best railroad unions were/are the BLE (Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers) (Engineers/"Firemen"} and the UTU United Trainmen's Union (Conductors/Brakemen) I worked in the Payroll/Timekeeping office during the late 70s for Conrail, and the salaries that these employees pulled down even back then would make a UAW employee blush.

There were some quite archaic labor agreements involving being paid an extra 3 hours wages to switch locomotives (a remnant of the steam locomotive days when it would take several hours to warm the engine up) and traveling w/o a "caboose", which entitled the crew to an extra days wages.

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