Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4987 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:21 pm: | |
http://www.cspan.org/Watch/C-S PAN2_wm.aspx things not sounding good |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1151 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:34 pm: | |
As Dodd said, ONLY the workers were asked to cut their pay. Not the dealers, not the execs, not the suppliers. The Southern Republicans were just out of control. |
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie
Post Number: 354 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:35 pm: | |
I've got my paper bag, a bucket, and a box of tissues ready. |
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2720 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:45 pm: | |
OMG, talks broke down. The Southern Republicans do not get it at all, they just want to break the unions. Of course, that will make their venue much less attractive. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 918 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:46 pm: | |
Don't you know it's all the fault of the overpaid auto workers, unlike the impoverished financial whizzes on Wall Street who destroyed the world financial system and were rewarded with billions? |
Retroit Member Username: Retroit
Post Number: 569 Registered: 04-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:48 pm: | |
Is it time to secede yet? |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1152 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:52 pm: | |
I am glad that some otherwise "progressive" folks might see, after watching these Southern Republicans in action, that this is the kind of philosophy that buying foreign cars is supporting. |
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob
Post Number: 1548 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:52 pm: | |
Didn't they try that in the "War Of Northern Agression"? |
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 469 Registered: 11-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:00 pm: | |
I'll be interested to see if the Republicans prevent the loans from going through, but allow the government to provide financing to GM as part of a bankruptcy package. I don't know how that would work out, but it would show they aren't completely out of touch with reality. If nothing is done, GM will go bankrupt and it is doubtful they can get DIP financing in the private market. That would be very bad. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 920 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:00 pm: | |
Corker just flipped his vote from "No" to "Yes". Maybe this isn't dead yet. |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:02 pm: | |
Corker switched his vote? I missed that. |
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie
Post Number: 355 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:04 pm: | |
It's over. I don't know whether to breathe into a paper bag or put it over my head and disappear. |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm: | |
CNN just reported that some Republicans indicated that the White House may have to change its position on using the Wall St. money for the Auto Industry. Now the Asian markets are starting to tank. |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4988 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm: | |
Bond of MO just switched, too, Corker just flipped back to No |
Mrnittany Member Username: Mrnittany
Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm: | |
Well, I live in Cincinnati ..... I'll volunteer to start erecting a wall tonight along the Ohio River. Seriously, screw the South. |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:08 pm: | |
Asian Markets. Check 'em out! http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cq? d=v1&s=^N225,%20^HSI |
Detx Member Username: Detx
Post Number: 207 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:16 pm: | |
The UAW botched this deal, and now all of MI will suffer. Can anyone say, "Fuck you, pay me?" |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4989 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:17 pm: | |
No, this wasn't the UAW and the world has seen (as Sen. Boxer is saying RIGHT NOW) who stands with the working class. |
Flanders_field Member Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 1367 Registered: 01-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:19 pm: | |
52-37 The Senate puts a big chunk of coal into each of the Big Three's Christmas stockings. |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:24 pm: | |
How come no across the board wage cuts were requested? The whole focus of Shelby has been to break the union. Period. The economy be damned. |
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone
Post Number: 431 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:28 pm: | |
I'm saying a big prayer tonight that they come to the decision that using the Wall St. money is now a MUST! |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 921 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:30 pm: | |
Can't wait to see how the stock market goes tomorrow. |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:31 pm: | |
Bush is in a corner now...more than likely he'll free up enough of the Wall St. money to help GM. Chrysler will be left out in the cold unfortunately. I'd love to have one of the new Challenges too. Putting it in perspective, the money they're asking for isn't even 5% of the bailout money given to Wall St. |
English Member Username: English
Post Number: 394 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:32 pm: | |
"Well, I live in Cincinnati ..... I'll volunteer to start erecting a wall tonight along the Ohio River. Seriously, screw the South." I will come and help you. There's a reason I moved back up here after college. And the next hypercane that hits them? They'd better not ask for a DIME to rebuild. I am so angry at the Republican party... where are our forum's apologists for the right wing now??? |
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 48 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:32 pm: | |
Well, the Asian markets are through the floor since the bailout failed. When the economy collapses because of Republican obstructionism, do you think the transplants are going to be loyal to Sen. Shelby? |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:33 pm: | |
Novine check out the Asian markets on Yahoo. Symbols ^N225 & ^HSI |
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 4990 Registered: 06-2004
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:35 pm: | |
As Mopardan's link shows - the Hang Seng and the Nikkei are dropping (7% and 6% respectively so far). Not sure if their markets close at four o'clock or not - that would be 2AM our time. |
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 2933 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:39 pm: | |
Quote: ". where are our forum's apologists for the right wing now???" Probably in another forum explaining why we need to stay in Iraq. People in this country better wake up. |
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan
Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:41 pm: | |
Just think what OUR markets will do tomorrow. They won't have enough tourniquets to stop the bleeding. I'm going to call it a night. For the record I wrote my Senators(Hutchison & Cornyn) twice, as well as McConnell, Bunning, & McCain among others. I tell ya, it's hell living on a blue island in a red state. Good night all & hang in there. This fight ain't over yet. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 922 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:43 pm: | |
Guess Corker is pretty clueless about the role of the auto industry in his own state. "State Is 5th In Auto Jobs Overall, auto-manufacturing employment in Tennessee — including assembly and supplier jobs — totaled 126,384 at the end of October, compared with 127,135 at the end of 2007 and 159,000 at the end of 2006, according to the state Department of Economic and Community Development. "We fared better this year because of GM coming back online in Spring Hill," said economist David Penn at Middle Tennessee State University, noting that fewer jobs were lost this year than last year. "That came at just the right time." Losing the Spring Hill plant would be a huge blow to the state's economy, but not just because of the jobs that would be lost at the plant itself, Penn said. Tennessee ranks fifth among states in the number of auto-related jobs, behind Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio, and ahead of Alabama, he added. "We need to consider that a lot of other jobs in the area owe themselves to that plant," he said. "What I'm worried about more are the cuts that we would have at all of the auto-parts manufacturers in Tennessee, many of which are in small communities that would have a hard time absorbing the losses." http://www.courier-journal.com /article/20081116/BUSINESS/811 16006 |
English Member Username: English
Post Number: 395 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:44 pm: | |
Thanks, Mopardan. We'll just have to see what happens. I feel so incredibly *sad* right now. |
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2724 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:49 pm: | |
Tennessee has a big contingent of GM retirees living in upscale suburbs of Knoxville. I bet some of them will be on the hot line to their senator tomorrow. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 923 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:54 pm: | |
Conservatives celebrating here (with trashing of the Big 3 and unions too): http://michellemalkin.com/2008 /12/11/late-night-shenanigans- on-the-hill-uaw-bailout-watch/ http://hotair.com/archives/200 8/12/11/bailout-cloture-vote/ |
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson
Post Number: 440 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:00 am: | |
Quote: Mopardan-"How come no across the board wage cuts were requested? The whole focus of Shelby has been to break the union. Period. The economy be damned." I agree. Hasn't it been illegal through the years to "union bust". The unions have had a right to form and have had the US government back them up. What happened to that? Those laws are still on the books and they should be acknowledged and enforced and be d*mned what the southern republicans say. |
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson
Post Number: 441 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:03 am: | |
Isn't union busting against US law? Let's dust those laws off now and apply them to OUR OWN GOVERNMENT! That's it. REVOLUTION! |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 924 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:04 am: | |
No surprise to anyone here but the impact of bankruptcy is going to domino through the entire industry. Auto Suppliers Share Anxiety Over a Bailout http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12 /12/business/12rescue.html?hp= &pagewanted=all |
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth
Post Number: 445 Registered: 10-2007
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:06 am: | |
If it would actually work, a general strike of every union in the country would get their attention really fast. Where is the solidarity? The Teamsters? Anyone? Shut this puppy down! |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1153 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:11 am: | |
The Japanese don't like controversy, and this Last Stand of the South to protect the interests of Toyota, Honda and Hyundai (and Mercedes of course) against the interests of the U.S. might cause people to react against their products. Sen. Shelby may have over reached on this. |
Detx Member Username: Detx
Post Number: 208 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:15 am: | |
I believe that one of the reasons this package didn’t get approval is because there is a large number of Americans who do not like Detroit. And this group of people cuts across race, economic, political, and provincial lines. All the country knows about Detroit is violence, corruption, fear, and rust. Unfortunately, they don’t have the knowledge of how things got to be the way they are like we do. Perhaps we have reached the point where Detroit, long a liability to the state of Michigan, has because a liability onto itself. For the first time in my life my country let me down, and I’m devastated. It’s a damn shame. |
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 3867 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:17 am: | |
You are aware of the dubiously named "right-to-work" laws some states have adopted, aren't you? Yeah, if this was really about reform, they'd call for everyone to take a paycut, but just calling for the union to take the hit is a direct loogey hawked in the faces of the workers. Fuck Corker, and fuck the South. They always screaming about "protect America" and "God Bless America" but when it comes to actually protecting America, these little b%tches are not just indifferent to American manufacturing, but down-right hostile to it. A Wall Street con artist was just, today, arrested and charged with pulling the biggest fraud in American histroy, and we're giving the autos the bird for mismanagement and not being able to survive in one of our worst recessions in history?! The f%ck?! Where are our priorities? We hand the money over the obviously criminal, yet we take the auto companies through the ringer for dare having the audacity to ask them for a loan? I tell you, if there is such thing as karma, when it comes back around, I hope it hits them and hits them hard. |
English Member Username: English
Post Number: 396 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:20 am: | |
"If it would actually work, a general strike of every union in the country would get their attention really fast. Where is the solidarity? The Teamsters? Anyone? Shut this puppy down!" THIS is what absolutely needs to happen, especially since while the country is so busy badmouthing us, the financial industry has used their bailout dollars for shareholders and salaries WHILE still refusing to lend. We need to follow the lead of those folks in Chicago. This AFT member will stand in solidarity with ANY general national strike. The American people should stop living in fear of these bastards and realize that this is a democracy -- we have all the power. |
Novine Member Username: Novine
Post Number: 929 Registered: 07-2007
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:22 am: | |
Watch the markets dive - Dow futures down over 300 points: http://money.cnn.com/data/prem arket/ |
Pffft Member Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1154 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:42 am: | |
Right English. I wish there had been a union march on Washington before the vote. |
Glowblue Member Username: Glowblue
Post Number: 61 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 2:58 am: | |
The yen is soaring against the dollar. I wonder how long before the Japanese government bails out its industries by intervening in the currency market? |
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson
Post Number: 442 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 8:25 am: | |
English: ""If it would actually work, a general strike of every union in the country would get their attention really fast. Where is the solidarity? The Teamsters? Anyone? Shut this puppy down!" THIS is what absolutely needs to happen, especially since while the country is so busy badmouthing us, the financial industry has used their bailout dollars for shareholders and salaries WHILE still refusing to lend. We need to follow the lead of those folks in Chicago. This AFT member will stand in solidarity with ANY general national strike. The American people should stop living in fear of these bastards and realize that this is a democracy -- we have all the power." We are with you!!!!!! Please Union leaders in Michigan, get the ball rolling. Make phone calls and wildcat!!! (There's a term you haven't heard in a while.) |
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson
Post Number: 443 Registered: 06-2006
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 8:51 am: | |
We need to get a boycott going against the whole of the country and athat is the only way to grab their attention. Boycott Alabama, great! But something bigger needs to be done. And I didn't mean for the union to "wildcat" GM. The UAW workers needs to show the country what it would be like without their money being spread around. And I mean salary workers on down. Everyone who has a stake in the money they earn directly or indirectly (party store owners, restaurants, etc.) from GM needs to take part. Even during this busy holiday season! Are you with me?! |
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 3600 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 8:58 am: | |
"The Southern Republicans were just out of control." It will be fun watching these guys try to get re-elected in the south after they become known as the Senators who killed NASCAR |
Detroitbred Member Username: Detroitbred
Post Number: 186 Registered: 06-2008
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 9:08 am: | |
Aren't these the legislative bodies responsible for passing laws/trade agreements that allowed the overseas atuo companies to do business here? The same overseas car companies that limit the number of cars we can send to them? I am not saying that there may not be more concessions necessary from the auto workers here, but this is not the way to accomplish that end! Holding an entire industry / country hostage just for spite. Shame on them. |
Jarvo Member Username: Jarvo
Post Number: 45 Registered: 09-2008
| Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 9:30 am: | |
It is a sad state of affairs when the government turns its back on what is the whole basis of our economy and foundation of our country...just to spite unions/labor and workers rights. |