Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Sen. Dodd now speaking - vote coming up around 10:40 « Previous Next »
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Lilpup
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Post Number: 4987
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.cspan.org/Watch/C-S PAN2_wm.aspx

things not sounding good
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Pffft
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Post Number: 1151
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As Dodd said, ONLY the workers were asked to cut their pay. Not the dealers, not the execs, not the suppliers.

The Southern Republicans were just out of control.
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Mashugruskie
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Username: Mashugruskie

Post Number: 354
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've got my paper bag, a bucket, and a box of tissues ready.
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Gazhekwe
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Post Number: 2720
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OMG, talks broke down. The Southern Republicans do not get it at all, they just want to break the unions.

Of course, that will make their venue much less attractive.
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Novine
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Post Number: 918
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't you know it's all the fault of the overpaid auto workers, unlike the impoverished financial whizzes on Wall Street who destroyed the world financial system and were rewarded with billions?
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Retroit
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Username: Retroit

Post Number: 569
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it time to secede yet?
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Pffft
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Post Number: 1152
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am glad that some otherwise "progressive" folks might see, after watching these Southern Republicans in action, that this is the kind of philosophy that buying foreign cars is supporting.
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Cheddar_bob
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Post Number: 1548
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't they try that in the "War Of Northern Agression"?
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Mwilbert
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Post Number: 469
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll be interested to see if the Republicans prevent the loans from going through, but allow the government to provide financing to GM as part of a bankruptcy package. I don't know how that would work out, but it would show they aren't completely out of touch with reality. If nothing is done, GM will go bankrupt and it is doubtful they can get DIP financing in the private market. That would be very bad.
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Novine
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Post Number: 920
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corker just flipped his vote from "No" to "Yes". Maybe this isn't dead yet.
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Mopardan
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Username: Mopardan

Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corker switched his vote? I missed that.
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Mashugruskie
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Username: Mashugruskie

Post Number: 355
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's over.

I don't know whether to breathe into a paper bag or put it over my head and disappear.
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Mopardan
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Post Number: 32
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CNN just reported that some Republicans indicated that the White House may have to change its position on using the Wall St. money for the Auto Industry.
Now the Asian markets are starting to tank.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 4988
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bond of MO just switched, too, Corker just flipped back to No
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Mrnittany
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Username: Mrnittany

Post Number: 40
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I live in Cincinnati .....

I'll volunteer to start erecting a wall tonight along the Ohio River. Seriously, screw the South.
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Mopardan
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Username: Mopardan

Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Asian Markets. Check 'em out!
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cq? d=v1&s=^N225,%20^HSI
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Detx
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Username: Detx

Post Number: 207
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The UAW botched this deal, and now all of MI will suffer. Can anyone say, "Fuck you, pay me?"
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Lilpup
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Post Number: 4989
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, this wasn't the UAW and the world has seen (as Sen. Boxer is saying RIGHT NOW) who stands with the working class.
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Flanders_field
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Username: Flanders_field

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

52-37 The Senate puts a big chunk of coal into each of the Big Three's Christmas stockings.
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Mopardan
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Post Number: 34
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How come no across the board wage cuts were requested? The whole focus of Shelby has been to break the union. Period. The economy be damned.
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Blueidone
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Username: Blueidone

Post Number: 431
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm saying a big prayer tonight that they come to the decision that using the Wall St. money is now a MUST!
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 921
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can't wait to see how the stock market goes tomorrow.
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Mopardan
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Username: Mopardan

Post Number: 35
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bush is in a corner now...more than likely he'll free up enough of the Wall St. money to help GM. Chrysler will be left out in the cold unfortunately. I'd love to have one of the new Challenges too.
Putting it in perspective, the money they're asking for isn't even 5% of the bailout money given to Wall St.
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English
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Post Number: 394
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Well, I live in Cincinnati ..... I'll volunteer to start erecting a wall tonight along the Ohio River. Seriously, screw the South."

I will come and help you. There's a reason I moved back up here after college. And the next hypercane that hits them? They'd better not ask for a DIME to rebuild.

I am so angry at the Republican party... where are our forum's apologists for the right wing now???
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Glowblue
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Username: Glowblue

Post Number: 48
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, the Asian markets are through the floor since the bailout failed. When the economy collapses because of Republican obstructionism, do you think the transplants are going to be loyal to Sen. Shelby?
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Mopardan
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Post Number: 36
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Novine check out the Asian markets on Yahoo. Symbols ^N225 & ^HSI
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 4990
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As Mopardan's link shows - the Hang Seng and the Nikkei are dropping (7% and 6% respectively so far). Not sure if their markets close at four o'clock or not - that would be 2AM our time.
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Sstashmoo
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Username: Sstashmoo

Post Number: 2933
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: ". where are our forum's apologists for the right wing now???"

Probably in another forum explaining why we need to stay in Iraq. People in this country better wake up.
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Mopardan
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Post Number: 37
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just think what OUR markets will do tomorrow. They won't have enough tourniquets to stop the bleeding.
I'm going to call it a night. For the record I wrote my Senators(Hutchison & Cornyn) twice, as well as McConnell, Bunning, & McCain among others.
I tell ya, it's hell living on a blue island in a red state.
Good night all & hang in there. This fight ain't over yet.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 922
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Guess Corker is pretty clueless about the role of the auto industry in his own state.

"State Is 5th In Auto Jobs

Overall, auto-manufacturing employment in Tennessee — including assembly and supplier jobs — totaled 126,384 at the end of October, compared with 127,135 at the end of 2007 and 159,000 at the end of 2006, according to the state Department of Economic and Community Development.

"We fared better this year because of GM coming back online in Spring Hill," said economist David Penn at Middle Tennessee State University, noting that fewer jobs were lost this year than last year. "That came at just the right time."

Losing the Spring Hill plant would be a huge blow to the state's economy, but not just because of the jobs that would be lost at the plant itself, Penn said. Tennessee ranks fifth among states in the number of auto-related jobs, behind Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio, and ahead of Alabama, he added.

"We need to consider that a lot of other jobs in the area owe themselves to that plant," he said. "What I'm worried about more are the cuts that we would have at all of the auto-parts manufacturers in Tennessee, many of which are in small communities that would have a hard time absorbing the losses."

http://www.courier-journal.com /article/20081116/BUSINESS/811 16006
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English
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Post Number: 395
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Mopardan. We'll just have to see what happens.

I feel so incredibly *sad* right now.
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Gazhekwe
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Post Number: 2724
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tennessee has a big contingent of GM retirees living in upscale suburbs of Knoxville. I bet some of them will be on the hot line to their senator tomorrow.
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Novine
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Post Number: 923
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Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Conservatives celebrating here (with trashing of the Big 3 and unions too):

http://michellemalkin.com/2008 /12/11/late-night-shenanigans- on-the-hill-uaw-bailout-watch/

http://hotair.com/archives/200 8/12/11/bailout-cloture-vote/
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Mama_jackson
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Username: Mama_jackson

Post Number: 440
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote: Mopardan-"How come no across the board wage cuts were requested? The whole focus of Shelby has been to break the union. Period. The economy be damned."

I agree. Hasn't it been illegal through the years to "union bust". The unions have had a right to form and have had the US government back them up. What happened to that? Those laws are still on the books and they should be acknowledged and enforced and be d*mned what the southern republicans say.
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Mama_jackson
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Post Number: 441
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't union busting against US law? Let's dust those laws off now and apply them to OUR OWN GOVERNMENT!

That's it. REVOLUTION!
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Novine
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Post Number: 924
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No surprise to anyone here but the impact of bankruptcy is going to domino through the entire industry.

Auto Suppliers Share Anxiety Over a Bailout

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12 /12/business/12rescue.html?hp= &pagewanted=all
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Townonenorth
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it would actually work, a general strike of every union in the country would get their attention really fast. Where is the solidarity? The Teamsters? Anyone? Shut this puppy down!
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Pffft
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Post Number: 1153
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Japanese don't like controversy, and this Last Stand of the South to protect the interests of Toyota, Honda and Hyundai (and Mercedes of course) against the interests of the U.S. might cause people to react against their products. Sen. Shelby may have over reached on this.
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Detx
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Username: Detx

Post Number: 208
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe that one of the reasons this package didn’t get approval is because there is a large number of Americans who do not like Detroit. And this group of people cuts across race, economic, political, and provincial lines. All the country knows about Detroit is violence, corruption, fear, and rust. Unfortunately, they don’t have the knowledge of how things got to be the way they are like we do. Perhaps we have reached the point where Detroit, long a liability to the state of Michigan, has because a liability onto itself.

For the first time in my life my country let me down, and I’m devastated. It’s a damn shame.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are aware of the dubiously named "right-to-work" laws some states have adopted, aren't you?

Yeah, if this was really about reform, they'd call for everyone to take a paycut, but just calling for the union to take the hit is a direct loogey hawked in the faces of the workers.

Fuck Corker, and fuck the South. They always screaming about "protect America" and "God Bless America" but when it comes to actually protecting America, these little b%tches are not just indifferent to American manufacturing, but down-right hostile to it.

A Wall Street con artist was just, today, arrested and charged with pulling the biggest fraud in American histroy, and we're giving the autos the bird for mismanagement and not being able to survive in one of our worst recessions in history?! The f%ck?! Where are our priorities?

We hand the money over the obviously criminal, yet we take the auto companies through the ringer for dare having the audacity to ask them for a loan?

I tell you, if there is such thing as karma, when it comes back around, I hope it hits them and hits them hard.
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English
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Post Number: 396
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"If it would actually work, a general strike of every union in the country would get their attention really fast. Where is the solidarity? The Teamsters? Anyone? Shut this puppy down!"

THIS is what absolutely needs to happen, especially since while the country is so busy badmouthing us, the financial industry has used their bailout dollars for shareholders and salaries WHILE still refusing to lend.

We need to follow the lead of those folks in Chicago. This AFT member will stand in solidarity with ANY general national strike.

The American people should stop living in fear of these bastards and realize that this is a democracy -- we have all the power.
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Novine
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Post Number: 929
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Watch the markets dive - Dow futures down over 300 points:

http://money.cnn.com/data/prem arket/
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Pffft
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Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1154
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Right English. I wish there had been a union march on Washington before the vote.
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Glowblue
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Username: Glowblue

Post Number: 61
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 2:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The yen is soaring against the dollar. I wonder how long before the Japanese government bails out its industries by intervening in the currency market?
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Mama_jackson
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Username: Mama_jackson

Post Number: 442
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

English: ""If it would actually work, a general strike of every union in the country would get their attention really fast. Where is the solidarity? The Teamsters? Anyone? Shut this puppy down!"

THIS is what absolutely needs to happen, especially since while the country is so busy badmouthing us, the financial industry has used their bailout dollars for shareholders and salaries WHILE still refusing to lend.

We need to follow the lead of those folks in Chicago. This AFT member will stand in solidarity with ANY general national strike.

The American people should stop living in fear of these bastards and realize that this is a democracy -- we have all the power."

We are with you!!!!!! Please Union leaders in Michigan, get the ball rolling. Make phone calls and wildcat!!! (There's a term you haven't heard in a while.)
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Mama_jackson
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Username: Mama_jackson

Post Number: 443
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We need to get a boycott going against the whole of the country and athat is the only way to grab their attention. Boycott Alabama, great!

But something bigger needs to be done. And I didn't mean for the union to "wildcat" GM.

The UAW workers needs to show the country what it would be like without their money being spread around. And I mean salary workers on down. Everyone who has a stake in the money they earn directly or indirectly (party store owners, restaurants, etc.) from GM needs to take part. Even during this busy holiday season!

Are you with me?!
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Thejesus
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Username: Thejesus

Post Number: 3600
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Southern Republicans were just out of control."

It will be fun watching these guys try to get re-elected in the south after they become known as the Senators who killed NASCAR
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Detroitbred
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aren't these the legislative bodies responsible for passing laws/trade agreements that allowed the overseas atuo companies to do business here? The same overseas car companies that limit the number of cars we can send to them? I am not saying that there may not be more concessions necessary from the auto workers here, but this is not the way to accomplish that end! Holding an entire industry / country hostage just for spite. Shame on them.
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Jarvo
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Username: Jarvo

Post Number: 45
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Posted on Friday, December 12, 2008 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is a sad state of affairs when the government turns its back on what is the whole basis of our economy and foundation of our country...just to spite unions/labor and workers rights.

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