  Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 1400 Registered: 01-2006 |
I did a little bit of searching,found some photos but not much discussion... Can someone recount the history of this building for us? I know it was built early in the century and heavily modified since then. Heres what Im curious to know... There are 5 buildings downtown with direct covered access to the People Mover (Ren Cen, Mil Center, Cobo, Greektown Casino, Whitney Building). When they system was built in 1987 the downtown area was in a state of disrepair and continuing to get worse. It would seem that this direct access to the building should have been enough to save it. What businesses were there in the final years,and why did this building not hold on given its remarkable accessibility? | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 377 Registered: 05-2006 |
I think it was the last location of The Metro Times. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 768 Registered: 11-2003 |
The first Pure Detroit store was opened in the David Whitney in the late 90's. People can talk all they want about how much they like a business/restaurant but they can't survive when you don't support them. Suburban shopping malls and the misconception that downtown Detroit is not safe doesn't help either. | ||
Detroithabitater Member Username: Detroithabitater Post Number: 191 Registered: 10-2006 |
'Greektown Casino' was actually just 'Trappers Alley' when the people mover first opened. I don't know what the circumstances were exactly in regards to how it was doing, when it turned into a Casino. But it was never that active when I was in there....even though it was a cool place. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1911 Registered: 11-2003 |
For many years it was supposed to be a hotel, but that never happened. The DPM station was closed for a few years since access was only from the building. A year or two after Comerica Park opened, they took the turnstiles out of the building and installed them on the exit stairway as a entrance. It is not handicap accessible, and a few year ago hey received either a state or federal grant to change that, but nothing has been done with that either. Now it is just a rotting building with no plans for the future. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1262 Registered: 11-2006 |
I believe MGM used as it as a training center when the casino was first opening... Pure Detroit, a barbershop, nail salon, and a couple of other random businesses occupied a very small portion of the building at that time too. I think by 2000 or so everything was cleared out | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1912 Registered: 11-2003 |
2000 was about when the new owners took over and came up with the hotel plan. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 1263 Registered: 11-2006 |
The building would really work as a hotel, given its layout. It's too bad that never panned out. Good spot for a hotel too, as it could help spread the Comerica/Foxtown/Theatre area down Woodward a bit. Oh well. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1914 Registered: 11-2003 |
I know a few years back there was a security guard on the inside, and they owners spent a few bucks on the roof and waterproofing the outside. But I have heard of any current plans to do anything with the building. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 1230 Registered: 11-2003 |
The floorplates of the D. Whitney bldg make it a poor candidate for future office use. From the building's inception, it held hundreds of small tenants including lots of medical offices. These days, a developer could never finance a project that effectively had limits on suite size. Any suite over 2500ft2 in the D. Whitney starts to become long and narrow with very poor flow. The building requires a change in use. Since the late 90's hotel idea, downtown has absorbed more than 2000 new hotel rooms. Another hotel project will not be financed for a long time. That leaves a residential re-use as pretty much the only option. Here's hoping the building can hang on and attract a developer when the economy improves. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 769 Registered: 11-2003 |
You always mention poor office floorplans Swingline. What is your data supporting this? Have you reviewed the actual floorplans of this building? There are many oddly shaped historic buildings that currently support office space in the United States. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2056 Registered: 04-2006 |
There was a pharmacy and a Secretary of State in the Whitney in the 90's. Back in the 1960's and 70's I used to go there for my dentist. I can remember the dentist office being a made of many small rooms. This is very out of date when compared to today's office environments. My current office is in a historic building of the same vintage and it is a wide open space conducive to modern office use. You could probably do a similar thing with the Whitney, but then again you have to watch out for load bearings! | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5327 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Which is why God created structural engineers. ;-) | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2485 Registered: 11-2003 |
In the 60's, the DWB was a busy place. I knew a fair share of dentists and doctors who maintained offices there. Lots of the physicians were on the staff of Harper Hospital. I do not recall attorneys having their offices in that building. Shapiro's Drugs Store was in the lobby and later a very nice Capper and Capper Men's store occupied the lobby. I would agree with swingline in that the offices always seemed a little tight. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1572 Registered: 11-2005 |
I'm working on it for www.buildingsofdetroit.com. It won't be done before the end of the year, though. | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 1232 Registered: 11-2003 |
Rjlj, have you ever been in the building on the upper floors above the arcade? On the upper floors, the building has a hollowed out polygon shape with a central full building height light court. An interior corridor encircles the light court. At no point is the depth from the public corridor to the building facade more than about 30 ft. Fire codes prevent closing off the public corridor to create larger contiguous spaces. Large tenants seeking to maximize office densities cannot use such shallow space. Lenders in the Detroit market demand significant pre-construction lease commitments. It's not feasible to find and sign up dozens of small tenants on a pre-construction basis. Result: office rehab cannot be financed. You ask if there are studies about the floor plate issue. I suppose there are but I don't have any. It's a common planning axiom in the development community. And of course the equation changes depending on the market. NY, Chi, S.F., Boston, etc. support downtown rents 3-5x higher than Detroit. It makes the financing of the renovation of older properties for small tenants a lot easier. Take a look at this Seattle solution for an early 20th century office building with characteristics similar to the D. Whitney. http://www.djc.com/news/en/111 77209.html Even in the vibrant Seattle office market, the owner pursued a green-focused residential re-use. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2057 Registered: 04-2006 |
Just to piggyback on what Swingline said, the office floors are set-up like a donut to allow natural light into the multi-story lobby area. If you wanted to open it up, it would lead to some very interesting layouts on floors with more than two tenants. The building does have architectural merit. It is a Daniel Burnham Building. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7596 Registered: 08-2004 |
I too was one of many that hoped the use as a luxury hotel would have panned out. It would have been nice to have had the skylight above the 5 story 4 level ornate lobby moved to the top of the building, and have the lobby soar to the full 18 stories of the building. The corridor around the light court could have had part of the walls removed (down to the load bearing beams) and replaced with fancy wrought iron railings (such as in the historic Brown Hotel in Denver). The shallow office portion of the building could have been converted to hotel suites, which don't require large footprints or much depth. The views from the ornate lobby and peering down from behind the hallway railings of each floor would have been stunning!! Here's a pic of the 5 story 4 level lobby... imagine the exhilarating view of another 14 floors soaring above that... This view (can't remember where I got it... it maybe an Ryan Southen image... he does such spectacular work) is of the soaring ornate lobby...  I probably should have posted this in the "If I won Millions" thread...  | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1916 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bet that lobby does not look like that now. | ||
Renf Member Username: Renf Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2003 |
There is a little more information here about the David Whitney Building. http://www.detroit1701.org/Whi tneyBldg.htm | ||
Ltdave Member Username: Ltdave Post Number: 317 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: i walked from the Book Cadillac to Campus Martius and back last saturday night and didnt feel un-safe... of course it was in the mid teens and the wind chill was probably in the single digits... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7598 Registered: 08-2004 |
I don't think that the David Whitney lobby looks much different from that picture. Scrappers don't have much of a use for terra cotta, and any lobby vandalization has been relatively minimal. However I understand that someone did drop a chair from one of the upper floors onto the skylight above the lobby. But it didn't break all the way thru the skylight, and unless it was removed, it is still stuck in place. Isn't the building now secured from vandals? And wasn't the lobby used for Superbowl XL? | ||
Eastsideal Member Username: Eastsideal Post Number: 101 Registered: 10-2007 |
It really is one of the more beautiful buildings downtown. It is a shame though that the exterior lost a lot of its original Daniel Burnham character in a rather misguided late '50s renovation. Still, in any reasonable place it would at least be landmarked and protected. In addition to all of the doctors and dentists there were a number of non-profits in there for many years. I worked with one of the them for a while in the late '80s, and the building was already emptying out then. Also, with the nearby abandoned hotels, theaters, etc. it was an increasingly problematic area. Not really physically dangerous, but cars used to get broken into regularly and stuff would disappear. But, even as empty as the area sometimes is, it's a considerably better place now. I hope that the building holds out and remains relatively undamaged (and uninvaded by idiots who would throw chairs down the lightwell for a momentary thrill) until such a time as it is economically feasible to reuse it in some way. I always loved that building. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2003 |
I don't think there is any heat or power to the building, which is why Pure Detroit was finally forced to move. | ||
Ocean2026 Member Username: Ocean2026 Post Number: 56 Registered: 11-2008 |
Rhymes your site is cool but it needs bigger and better pictures for each building- more than one angle would be good. Remember some who are looking are not from the area. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2003 |
I worked there in the late 80s when the Metro Times was still there. The lobby was really beautiful. We looked down onto Woodward Avenue, and the Elwood was across the street. Woodward had a creepy vibe back then-- very abandoned. The Hudson's building was still standing, but it was empty. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1544 Registered: 11-2005 |
I agree, Ocean. Sadly, I'm not the site photog and handle only the history. I've been begging the photog to upload more photos (he has hundreds) but can't get him to do anything. I've been toying with either asking other photogs to display their shots of the buildings or striking out on my own with a new site and soliciting others to share their photos. I am not half the photographer many of our fellow DYers are. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 877 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:no they don't. you could remove all of the interior walls per floor if it is for a single use. this is true for "fireproof" construction and especially true for buildings with sprinklers (which, if memory serves, the DWB is). the only thing that prohibits the removal of public spaces, including hallways, is the use of historic tax credits. if the developer wanted to apply and utilize these credits, then the hallways would have to stay. if not, then they could be removed. [this was one of the main reasons any conversion of the statler was unfeasable.] |
