  Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 271 Registered: 03-2005 |
Last week my friend and I was hanging at downtown for a bit and my first time checking out the Westin Book.When I was driving down to MGM Grand, I noticed across the street that DTE Headquarters is expanding outside of the building. Does anyone knows what going to be there or have photos of it? | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2353 Registered: 03-2008 |
Here ya' go: http://www.downtowndetroit.org /ddp/newsroom/detroit_news_jul y_4_2007.htm I'm excited to see the new landscaped gardens. I'm also curious what (if anything) is planned for the vacant lot to the North. It looks like it could easily connect to the parking garage walkway. | ||
Detmsp Member Username: Detmsp Post Number: 39 Registered: 08-2008 |
is that going to be fenced off so that no one will really see it unless they are a DTE employee? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7586 Registered: 08-2004 |
Although DTE is expanding its' landscaping for its' employees... they certainly aren't adding jobs here. Anyone else notice that your DTE bills are now "return addressed" to Cincinnati Ohio?? More Detroit area jobs lost? | ||
Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 354 Registered: 12-2004 |
Detmsp - from the article: quote: | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1562 Registered: 11-2005 |
"Anyone else notice that your DTE bills are now "return addressed" to Cincinnati Ohio?? " YES! I just noticed that, too. I was shocked. I was wondering when that happened. | ||
Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 356 Registered: 12-2004 |
http://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/ 20081121/oh-5-3-dte-energy.htm Lockbox consolidation...many companies do this. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6508 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, they are building a campus for their employees. It'll eat up a few blocks of streets, too. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5299 Registered: 10-2003 |
Awesome. Way to go, prison mentality!!! | ||
Publicmsu Member Username: Publicmsu Post Number: 793 Registered: 11-2003 |
Just drove by there last week, quite an interesting setup. Holes cut out in the walls filled in by bars. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5505 Registered: 02-2005 |
Walls? Wow, god-forbid your employees might have an urge to LEAVE their employment site for lunch etc. Yeah, yeah, I know they still can, but it is frustrating to see another office superblock. The blockade of Saint Antoine Street for a lawn and small patio for BCBS is the most egregious, though. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3853 Registered: 07-2004 |
This effort is the latest plan to revitalize downtown by getting rid of that annoying street grid, and replacing it with a walled-in complex featuring lots of green space. :P | ||
Saintme Member Username: Saintme Post Number: 312 Registered: 08-2006 |
I was under the impression that they just tore up all their old unneeded surface lots (since DTE employees mostly park at MGM now) and covered it with landscaping. It might not be everyone's ideal use of space, but it's still nicer than looking at more surface lots, even if 2/3 of it is employee only access. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3855 Registered: 07-2004 |
Saintme: That's part of the picture. The other part of the picture is what DTE did to CREATE that situation, through its SYNDECO subsidiary. Who bought up all land in that part of downtown year after year? Who demolished the buildings? Who converted what remained to for surface parking? Who finally sold lots of that land to the casino at a profit? Go ahead and praise DTE if you like. I despise them. They did everything they could to turn that part of downtown, which used to sport two parks and adorable houses, into a bombed-out parking lot. They turned housing blocks on the tax rolls into cracked fields of asphalt. They turned the alleys into parking lot turnstiles for their employees. They choked off a once-viable city neighborhood so it could all be superblocked. They changed the names of streets from quaint to institutional (Jones Street became Plaza Drive.) And now they're doing the coup de grace: Getting rid of the street grid entirely. Please, let us not thank them for this in any way. (Message edited by detroitnerd on December 08, 2008) (Message edited by detroitnerd on December 08, 2008) | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 452 Registered: 08-2008 |
quote: What about their city employees, of which there are many? Were the turnstiles not for them, only the suburbanites? I think that sometimes people randomly toss the word "suburban" into the mix to subconsciously add fuel to the fire, but it is irrelevant to this issue. | ||
Saintme Member Username: Saintme Post Number: 314 Registered: 08-2006 |
Detroitnerd, I guess I had just assumed the city was responsible for 99% of all Detroit surface lots, and DTE was doing a favor by getting rid of a few. I stand corrected. No affinity to DTE, I'm not a customer. All my city services are community owned. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3856 Registered: 07-2004 |
Downtown_lady: You're right. Employees from all over the area worked at DTE and used those lots. Not trying to fan the flames of any urban-suburban divide. I guess that when I used to bike around the area and take pictures, I'd feel especially hurt by the idea that we'd pave over a city neighborhood so somebody that didn't live there could park there. Thanks for correcting me, though.  | ||
Downtown_lady Member Username: Downtown_lady Post Number: 453 Registered: 08-2008 |
Uh-oh, Detroitnerd, a smiley face for me at the end of your post...hmmm just kidding | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 486 Registered: 01-2004 |
It would be nice to build another tower and create a square atmosphere with DTE, MGM and another building. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3857 Registered: 07-2004 |
I wish I knew more "emoticodes" but for now a smiley has to mean many things. That one was sincere, though. Just like this one. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5300 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, by adopting the ideas of Le Corbusier, the DTE campus will only be 70 years behind the times, which is still decades better than their infrastructure. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 662 Registered: 08-2008 |
Thank you Detroitnerd. There are many people posting here that don't have historical perspective of more than a few years. You hit the nail on the head. DTE was a major contributor to downtown becoming the mess it became. Plum Street used to be back there. A whole neighborhood of nice homes and corner businesses. I don't blame DTE entirely(nor, do I suggest you do), I just think they were too busy land grabbing to consider the long term effects on downtown. In my experience, it was typical US corporate behavior. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3859 Registered: 07-2004 |
Thanks 1kieleson. You're probably right that DTE behaved no worse than any US corporation. And that's the good news and the bad news. :P | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5301 Registered: 10-2003 |
^And the City of Detroit wasn't complicit in permitting the Sovietization of downtown? After all, don't they issue demolition and construction permits? As rotten as I think DTE may be, constructing enormous private bunkers is by no means inherent to large companies. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2208 Registered: 08-2007 |
a little history on the short-lived run of Plum Street. http://apps.detnews.com/apps/h istory/index.php?id=136 The new DTE Campus is a massive improvement to the area. From a asphalt surface lot and derlict parking garage, to a lush urban garden. If you don't like the fact that the general public is not encouraged to use the grounds, gosh that's too bad, but then again the public wasn't allowed to use the parking lot either. So you have a choice of enjoying the place or not. I'll pick the joy part. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5303 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: "Lush urban garden"? There's nothing "urban" about it--I understand it will be surrounded by walls and wrought-iron fences. How inviting! | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2209 Registered: 08-2007 |
You ever walk it Dan? Ever even see it? Ever drive-by? Fly-by? I didn't think so. Since you're again spouting off about stuff you don't have any knowledge of, guess I'll file your insights away into the circular file. But, hey, thanks for the opine. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3861 Registered: 07-2004 |
As I understand it, none of us will be able to really experience it, without a DTE badge. So wouldn't somebody flying by have a better chance than somebody on the street? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5304 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yes, I have been by there, all-knowing Gnome. I noticed you didn't lambast publicmsu when he added this comment: quote: or this one from Detroitnerd: quote: So why the disconnect. I am just as entitled as anyone else to express my opinion, and you are certainly no authority on this forum. In a nutshell, DTE has blurred the lines between public and private space. Anyone who has read Jane Jacobs knows this is a disastrous idea. Never mind there are two entire city blocks that are essentially sitting useless, since they are decidedly, and intentionally, separated from the surrounding city. Don't you dare decide what I know and don't know. I'd like to see you justify the wholesale imprisonment of these city blocks so DTE employees can eat lunch outside 3 months of the year. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 764 Registered: 11-2003 |
The park was park of the deal when land was sold or traded or whatever to MGM. The guests at the MGM hotel have to have something nice to look at. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2210 Registered: 08-2007 |
Nerd, I'm trying to understand why you think you should be able to use the DTE park. Just because you are you? If you're really interested in walking the grounds, you could always buy some stock and become part owner, or you could try to get a job there. The whole wailing and gnashing of teeth seems unusual. Do you feel the same way about The Glass House? Solidary House? Riverfront Apartments? If you want to be outraged why don't you direct your ire at State, County and City owned property? It strikes me as silly to be upset over a company using their own land to make an attractive enviroment for their co-owners and employees. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3672 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Really? Complaining about a private company leveling several blocks of a city neighborhood and throwing up a fence around it seems unusual? What is unusual, the fact that the company did this or that someone complained about it? | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2211 Registered: 08-2007 |
Dan, sorry you feel I'm picking on you, but as someone who consistently misunderstands just about everything, you're an easy target. If you don't like that, don't embarrass yourself and issue edicts from the garden spot that is Washington DC. Those blocks which comprise the old Edison block haven't seen any real improvements since the mid-1960's. For a peek at the good old days click here. If it is indeed true, that you've walked the grounds, what do you like the least? The reflecting pool, the jogging paths, the peace garden, the 600 trees, the 7,200 bushes? Or do you have a general problem with all that green stuff? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3863 Registered: 07-2004 |
Gnome, I think you're framing the question the wrong way. The operators of DTE -- and their PR people -- want us all to thank the company for building something beautiful in Detroit. We're supposed to get down on our knees and praise DTE for building green space, for taking the ugly cracked asphalt surface lots and turning them into something beautiful. (Despite the fact that they, through their real estate subsidiary, ensured that the neighborhood that used to be there became a massive parking lot. But, hey, it sure sounds good, in a press release, anyway.) But the only catch is that we have no right to use them, unless we want to buy stock or get a job with them. So why should we thank them for what they've done? We don't get to use it. So why should we praise them for creating something that we don't get to use? Also, why should we be excited at any developer building a low-density campus in what's supposed to be the densest part of the city? That doesn't make sense! DTE wants to have it both ways. It wanted for years to get rid of the part of town that grew up organically, plat by plat over time as the city grew. That small-street framework is becoming one of the most sought-after environments in the 21st American city, with streets running through, uniting a neighborhood with the rest of the city. It's called good urban design, something DTE clearly has no interest in, evidenced by their plans to build a walled-in campus of low density with no historic streets. But they clearly want our love for doing this, which I am actively withholding. Sorry, DTE. Planning a building or a complex is more than that balsa-wood-and-foamcore display crafted by an architect. However good those models look, they have to work in concert with the city around them to have any gestalt. Only by building with the surrounding community in mind do they achieve that elusive goal of being a truly "good building." Instead, what we have are builders who ignore urban planning and the placement of their buildings within the larger framework of the community. They create walled-off spaces typified by the earthen berm, the concrete flower planter and the blast wall. And then, after ignoring us, deciding on how best not to admit us, and literally refusing us entry to their "wonders," they want us to thank them for building "sumptin'." How insulting! | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 5306 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I don't feel like you're picking on me in the least--I think you just have a stubborn and superficial outlook, not to mention a miserable understanding of details. Maybe I misunderstand you because your diction ain't so good, or you oversimplify complex concepts, or you only have a superficial appreciation of details. Regardless, you are no one to judge anyone else--I'll decide if I'm embarrassed, not His Holiness the Gnome. Frankly, I think you see discussion as a game of one-upsmanship and "gotcha" moments, rather than an informed and civil exchange of ideas. I have faith you'll eventually appreciate this concept, rather than issue your judgments of others from on high on your asphalt perch in Detroit. Detroitnerd hits it squarely on the head. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7591 Registered: 08-2004 |
Excuse me... but when did being a stockholder EVER allow you to traipse about any corporate campus, except for an onsite stockholders meeting? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 3870 Registered: 07-2004 |
Owning 51 percent? :P | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2212 Registered: 08-2007 |
Dan, I'd never try to get in a battle of wits with you as it is unfair to fight with an unarmed man. I'm afraid we're never going to see eye-to-eye on things; so, how about if I just try to steer clear of you. ok? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7592 Registered: 08-2004 |
LOL... good one Detroitnerd... that'll get you in with a red carpet!! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6516 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gnome, you are the absolute embodiment and personification of misery. The irony here is that you try to talk down Dan as if he's stupid when in fact he's running mental circles around you. You better find some humility and temper your disgustingly anti-social persona, here, and quickly. (Message edited by lmichigan on December 09, 2008) | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1173 Registered: 06-2004 |
I value DaninDC for always reminding me why I hate Washington. Gnome, you go! | ||
Hamtragedy Member Username: Hamtragedy Post Number: 364 Registered: 10-2007 |
DTE also has a call center in Ohio. That's why it took 32 calls to have a gas meter installed. I could care less about their green space. I want reasonable rates and competent customer service, two things they have no concept of. 7200 bushes does me no good whatsoever if the building they're surrounding is loaded with complete idiots. Screw DTE. I'm calling the other utility. | ||
Detmi7mile Member Username: Detmi7mile Post Number: 157 Registered: 12-2007 |
Well obviously this green space is a bad idea. I mean what was DTE thinking? How dare they put some greenspace back into downtown Detroit. I hate those stupid trees and bushes...always looking so green. I mean first they turned the whole area into an array of ugly parking lots and now this!! I know they might be trying to correct that mistake but I'm an unforgiving person, and I've never made a mistake in my life. I should've been on that planning committee because even though I don't have a degree or experience in anything related to landscaping or architecture, I could've come up with a better plan than that horrendous looking greenspace where there will be space for Detroiters to walk in. I'm going to get a glass of water. All this complaining is making me thristy. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 683 Registered: 08-2008 |
Well Gnome, I'm with you. I'll enjoy every little bit of good that happens. That doesn't mean, by any stretch, that I'll let my thoughts, comments and the history slide by. The old saying goes something like this: "If you don't know history, you're doomed to repeat it". I know I butchered that one, but you all get the point. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 684 Registered: 08-2008 |
If you're upset about DTE's call center in Ohio, wait until you call AAA and try to explain to someone in Grand Rapids(or heavens knows what other location) where your car is broken down in the metro Detroit area. I guess we should be glad their call centers aren't in Bangalore. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 685 Registered: 08-2008 |
Complain, complain, complain. What in the f*+k are chat rooms for? Complaining is in the eye/ear of the beholder. If you choose to call it complaining, so be it. I call it information. Try starting a link here that's called 'no complaining' and see what kind of posts you get. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 615 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Outstanding post. |
