  Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 122 Registered: 06-2008 |
These lists are generally crap anyway, but Detroit is #3. Camden, NJ #2 and New Orleans #1. http://www.walletpop.com/mortg ages/dangerous-cities#cmntbgn | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2006 |
YEA!!! We dropped 2 spots! Next year we will be #6 or lower! | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 606 Registered: 08-2007 |
Detroit is a dump. Just because people refuse to report crime in Detroit due to the "No Snitch" rule does not mean crime is decreasing. I bet before the end of the night, twice as many crimes will be committed in Detroit than were committed in New Orleans and Camden combined for the whole year. Detroit is a cesspool. It's where murderers and rapists should be sent upon conviction. It's true the death penalty is not a deterrent. However, the Detroit penalty is.... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5749 Registered: 06-2004 |
CQ generally weights murder more heavily than others crimes and Detroit was only #6 for that this year, plus they didn't put a BS high population cut-off on it this year like they have in the past. (and as always, the FBI admonishment to not compare cities this way still applies) | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6912 Registered: 12-2005 |
It could be worse.  One Night In Bangkok Makes A Hard Man Humble Funny how they get the chessboard wrong at the beginning and then emphasize it. (Message edited by Jimaz on November 25, 2008) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 5493 Registered: 02-2005 |
typical haphazard propaganda. show a picture of a hundred cops cars approaching a throng of black people to show the world a nice "Michigan" scene. Show a picture of trees to show everyone what Montana is about. So many nice cities in the 15 most dangerous...too bad. CP, your comments are quite galling. Think before you talk. | ||
Cooper Member Username: Cooper Post Number: 46 Registered: 02-2008 |
quote: I bet you don't know what you're talking about. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 2942 Registered: 02-2007 |
Crumbled pavement wrote: "Detroit is a dump." "Detroit is a cesspool." Make up your mind. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 275 Registered: 07-2007 |
I think Crumbled pavement might have meant that comment to be taken as sarcasm unless his views have changed substantially since earlier this year when he called me a tool* during one of those oh so productive and insightful crime threads.  *No hard feelings. Everything all right, Crumbled? | ||
Rj_spangler Member Username: Rj_spangler Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2008 |
I've been to Camden, NJ and New Orleans. It didn't appear that Detroit was so much worse. I've also been to S.Central LA. I'll take the D. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3646 Registered: 04-2006 |
This list seems skewed towards medium and smaller sized cities. There's no way in Hell that Flint is more dangerous than Los Angeles... | ||
Sciencefair Member Username: Sciencefair Post Number: 141 Registered: 10-2007 |
I think the title of "dangerous city" is a loaded one. I won't dispute the problems of crime in this city, but I will say that if you're looking for trouble in Detroit you can easily find it. But if you keep your nose clean and are practical about safety, you have a lot less to worry about. Innocent people are victimized, yes, but more often than not, the murders and shootings featured on the 11 o'clock news "may be drug related" or end up being a domestic dispute that could just as easily happen in Clausen or Sterling Heights. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5754 Registered: 06-2004 |
lol, in a pickle in "Clausen"? | ||
Ocean2026 Member Username: Ocean2026 Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2008 |
I read just the other day Detroit had 383 homicides in the last year with 919,000 people and LA had 390 for 3.4 million people. Detroit has high crime and high taxes- we know that. I love the buildings though - not sure any city in North America can rival them. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1468 Registered: 01-2005 |
Lucky Detroit doesn't count gunshot deaths by ricochet as real homicides or we'd be #1. | ||
Denbytar64 Member Username: Denbytar64 Post Number: 62 Registered: 03-2008 |
Detroit is Heaven compared to Moscow | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1463 Registered: 04-2005 |
quote: yes, there is a way in hell. what we, in flint, viewed as a sad decline in the mid-90's now seems like the town's halcyon days. i drove through the city several days ago. i wasn't surprised to see my old apartment complex near atwood completely boarded up - but i was shocked to see my ex-girlfriend's two-story brick rented house on thomson street, near u of m, missing. i visited the home last winter and the house had its windows broken out and the drapes were blowing outside, which was pretty spooky for a house in a neighborhood that was so nice so recently. in fact, that house stood in flint's cultural district, so it's a real statement to flint's culture. furthermore, streets in that neighborhood are blocked off to limit traffic, so it's clear there are big problems. problems that were once limited to areas like pierson and pasadena are now quite prevalent in flint. i drove past a bank i once frequented, and found its windows riddled with bullet holes. another apartment complex in which i lived (sunridge) has been plagued with massive fires - but i moved from there because you could see the problems coming. yup. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3651 Registered: 04-2006 |
No. There is no way in Hell that Flint is more dangerous than Los Angeles, boarded up buildings and abandoned factories included. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5756 Registered: 06-2004 |
You have to average it across all of L.A. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1312 Registered: 03-2006 |
If Flint was as big as LA then you would clearly see Flint is worse then LA. There aint no Rodeo Drives in Flint | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3652 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Rodeo Drive isn't in L.A. | ||
Onthe405 Member Username: Onthe405 Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2007 |
"Rodeo Drive isn't in LA" A technicality. Bel Air, Pacific Palisades and Mandeville Canyon are. It terms of prestige, geographic beauty, and resplendent wealth, they make Beverly Hills seem like a trailer park. An interesting double standard creeps into the discourse amongst a (minority) of DY'ers regarding sweeping generalizations. On one hand, metro Detroit is unfairly maligned & generalized by the rest of the US, but places like Chi, NYC, & LA---cities comprised of millions upon millions of diverse peoples and a myriad of varied neighborhoods are universally dismissed without qualification as undesirable & inferior to SE Michigan. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3653 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: I've visited all of those areas multiple times, and I'm quite aware that they are part of L.A. proper. But then again so is Watts. Furthermore, if Flint were as big as L.A. then it would have its own Bel Air or Brentwood counterpart. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5763 Registered: 06-2004 |
"if Flint were as big as L.A. then it would have its own Bel Air or Brentwood counterpart" and it's average crime stats would be lowered by that inclusion | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1467 Registered: 04-2005 |
flint compared with l.a., 2007: murder rate = 2.3x rape rate = 3.3x robbery rate = 1.5x assault rate = 4.5x burglary rate = 4.9x theft rate = 1.5x auto theft rate = 1.4x arson rate = 3.2x we can't speculate that "if flint were as big as l.a. then it would have its own bel air or brentwood counterpart." flint would more likely look just like detroit, but that's irrelevant. the crime stats for flint exceed those of l.a. in every category listed in city-data.com, and sometimes in great proportion. iheart, how can you defend your statement? or are you just having a little fun, knowing what flint is really like? | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 2202 Registered: 10-2003 |
I realize that you may not have gotten a great glimpse of the neighborhood as you drove by at 30mph, but your girlfriend's old house is the exception Thecarl. I live a stone's throw away. There is very low crime in this neighborhood and out of the hundred or so houses, there is only a couple that are vacant/abandoned. It's nothing like the picture you paint, but then again what the hell do I know? I just live here, while you drove through the other day. The Atwood stadium neighborhood on the other hand, has gone through some tough times but there are signs that point to it being on the upswing. I don't know if it will actually rebound or not but there is some effort to make it happen. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1469 Registered: 04-2005 |
cheddar bob, as previously stated, i've visited the house more than once in the last year, and the street is barricaded, so you can't drive by at 30 mph. since you live so close, i shouldn't have to explain that to you. the house was on thomson just south of kearsley, right next to the entrance to the church parking lot. the garage is still standing, but with broken windows (and you live a stone's throw away, hmmm.) the house was abandoned. now it's gone. it's spooky. there are problems in the neighborhood. there's a reason for the barricade. those are facts. accept it. as far as atwood and the riverfront area, there have been signs pointing to its "upswing" for the 26 years i've known the area. i did notice the new housing complex near the river, which looked nice. i lived down there on 2nd ave while all the buildings burned down in the 80's to make way for it. anyway... instead of quarreling, can you shed some light on what happened to the house on thomson - and why the barricade is there? | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 2203 Registered: 10-2003 |
I moved in after the roads were blocked off, but I was told it was to help keep drugs out of the neighborhood. I wasn't aware of the fact that cul-de-sacs were the bane of drug dealers, but whatever. When I was given this reason, I imagined a scenario like this... CUSTOMER: "I need some weed. Can you drop some off to me, I live on Thompson?" DEALER: "Whoa, buddy. I can't go into that neighborhood. There's cul-de-sacs". Anyway, it could have a lot to do with the fact that Mott CC kids were using the neighborhood as a shortcut and were tearing through the streets. At any rate, it's a pain in my ass because if I'm downtown, I have to drive out of my way to get to one of the two entrances to the neighborhood. In regards to your girlfriend's old house, I suspect that it might be the house that caught on fire a while back. Another house in the neighborhood (next to the old store) caught on fire and it was promptly demolished and removed. Burned houses in derelict neighborhoods don't get promptly removed. There's a house behind me that looks to be abandoned, but it's the only one I know of in the whole neighborhood. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 383 Registered: 01-2008 |
I am always a little surprised to see such animosity towards Detroit. Yes we have crime, mostly drug related, but despite that we really have a beautiful city with tremendous cultural aspects. Our history is fascinating being deep and diverse. Each neighborhood has its own rich history. Sadly, I can only conclude that Detroit bashing is racist in nature. I wish everyone could see what I see regarding the city and its populace. There is so much faith and giving. So many people donate time. This is true of Detroit and its suburbs. I see Every day, fantastic role models of all creeds and colors. They inspire me. Don't bash my city. Don't assume race is a cause. Problems, yes, we have them. This city is still very viable. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 631 Registered: 06-2007 |
I think Flint scores so high on the crime list is because of areas on the north side. The south side is largely poor and has a few bad areas, but is ultimately more reflective of a typical distressed, midwestern town. The north side, however, is very notorious.People dont even speak of Detroit the way they speak of North Flint. I have been warned that if you arent from the area,people will know, and they WILL rob you.Few people can point out an area of Detroit with as high a risk at the Dayton/Dupont area of Flint. The disproportionately high amount of activity in the areas of Dupont, N.Saginaw, and MLK (north of Downtown) raise the cities overall per-capita rate to a higher level. The southwest side, near McClaren Hospital isnt as bad, and the estate area near Swartz Creek golf course is one of the most graceful neighborhoods Ive ever seen in all of Michigan. Even now, that neighborhood has tremendous appeal. The area surrounding the golf course north of Atherton is also respectable. Its that north end that overcompensates. I just visited that area yesterday. The commercial district of Flint Twp., around Genesee Valley mall, was impressive. I actually got out of the car and poked around some of the stores. My biggest complaint was the awful traffic along Miller Rd. Otherwise, it looks like the Flint Metro area still has some potential left. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3654 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: I don't have to. I'm not the one making an idiotic assertion that you can draw a direct correlation between a town of 100,000 people and a city of over 3 million. You think you can multiply everything that happens in Flint by 30 and say that's how it would be if they were the same size. No, that isn't how they would be. There is nothing to compare between the two cities other than to say a LOT more can happen to you in the city of over 3 million (in a metro of 18 million) than can in the town of 100,000. Stop being stupid. But if you want something tangible to think about, the biggest difference between crime in L.A. and crime in Flint is that L.A. has a very bad gang problem the even Detroit can't compare to, let alone Flint. But of course you only think that crime happens in Detroit and Flint. You think that Detroit and Flint invented crime and it can't possibly happen anywhere else on Earth. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 559 Registered: 07-2006 |
Iheartthed, I do not think that it is true that "a LOT more can happen to you in the city of over 3 million" than in a town of 100,000. What is your basis for this statement? To me, the likelihood of something happening depends on the percentage of people in a given area that are likely to commit a criminal act. This is much higher in Flint than in L.A. I think it is a fair point to state that larger cities are generally more diverse, and are therefore more likely to have good areas and bad areas than a smaller city like Flint. But I do not think that makes a comparison impossible or stupid. And lastly, Happy Thanksgiving. | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 607 Registered: 08-2007 |
quote: ^^^Truer words have never been spoken! | ||
Cheddar_bob Member Username: Cheddar_bob Post Number: 2204 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hpgrmln pretty much nailed it. The vast majority of serious crimes in Flint are committed north of the river. Thus the crime statistics for the whole city are skewed toward a specific area. While Flint's level of gang activity does not reach that of Los Angeles, I would say that a significant amount of Flint's crime is due to gangs. This is something the chief of police talked about a few weeks ago. Thecarl, I drove down each street in my neighborhood today. In the area bordered by Crapo, Kearsley, Court, and Chavez North, there were four unoccupied/boarded houses. While this is not the best situation it is also not indicative of the picture you painted for the East Village neighborhood (or Central Park, to be more specific). | ||
Margie Member Username: Margie Post Number: 115 Registered: 10-2008 |
WHATEVER WE THINK AND BELIEVE IN OUR HEART...THATS WHAT WE ARE AND HOW WE SEE THINGS... WHATEVER WE ARE ON THE INSIDE...MAKES IT'S WAY TO THE OUTSIDE... AS THE PEOPLE OF OUR GREAT CITY... DETROIT LETS DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE OUR CITY GREAT OUR MOUTHS SPEAK ABOUT WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE POSSIBLE DO WE NEED TO CHANGE WHAT WE BELIEVE IS POSSIBLE...... | ||
Lonelycloud Member Username: Lonelycloud Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2008 |
Frankenmuth. Especially if you're a vegan. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1470 Registered: 04-2005 |
iheart, the flint you'd like to compare with l.a. is the same size and population as l.a., and has a brentwood or bel air counterpart. is your flint also proximate to the ocean and the mountains? is your flint as warm and sunny as l.a.? and hey, iheart, why not go big with the flint you'd like to compare with l.a. maybe your flint could be somewhere in switzerland. or, maybe your flint is inhabited only by eight score young blondes and brunettes, all between sixteen and nineteen-and- a-half. however, the flint i'm using for comparison is the real flint, as is - not your imaginary flint. and let's look at your original statement: quote: iheart, in light of the data, that statement could not be more outlandish. perhaps that's why you've so quickly resorted to name-calling and insults when confronted by the facts. quote: nobody believes such a thing, iheart. you're arguing for your fantasyland with a person that doesn't exist. it's too bad that reality is so uncomfortable for you that you must revert to schoolyard antics when someone doesn't support your opinion. then again, you chastised me for extrapolating data - so maybe i shouldn't suggest that your tantrum was a result of regressed behavior. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1317 Registered: 03-2006 |
There really isnt a area in Flint that is spared of crime. Nobody mentions the East side which is looking more and more like a third world country. The Maclaren area has been a problem for years. I moved to Grand Blanc which is a fairly nice area just out side of Flint, had my house broken into twice, both times I'm in the house. With the economy, lack of police and no jobs its just getting worse | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1471 Registered: 04-2005 |
cheddar, thanks for doing the reconnaissance. ever since i saw the house, which is no longer a house, i've been trying to find out what's been going on in that neighborhood. i wondered if problems in the lapeer road area having been pushing north, or problems in the kearsley park area have been pushing south, or both. with the barricade, i assumed that the city was trying to limit flow through a known drug area, to reduce drive-through convenience. i also assumed that the abandoned house on thomson did eventually burn down. i don't know what picture you feel i'm trying to paint of the area, but i was shocked and saddened to see that house with the drapes blowing outside through broken windows. i lived in the flushing road area when problems started creeping southward from the pierson road area, and that area has experienced considerable decline since. i feared the same for your neighborhood. there was enough of a vibe to make me feel wary when i last visited, which is strange to feel in a familiar area once walked so freely and unconcerned. cheddar, i described your neighborhood as being "so nice so recently." i hope it stays cared-for, safe, and enjoyable. if you don't feel comfortable giving out personal info, that's cool - but i'd like to ask how long you've been in flint, and your neighborhood? i pretty much pulled up stakes from the flint area in 1995 - and just about everyone i knew had left by 1997. but, i still like to drive through whenever i have the chance to see how things are changing. i should probably take the time to grab a torch burger, but i've just been driving through all the neighborhoods where friends and relatives lived. in fact, i haven't even gotten over to the east side at all yet... | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1472 Registered: 04-2005 |
kenp, i also lived on the east side, at broadway and lewis. that house is gone too, but i'm not surprised. funny, i moved there to get out of the dangerous atwood area, but had more problems on the east side. the house i lived in was once home to the avengers, and when i moved in, the neighbor pointed out the bullet holes in the structure. then, there was a brawling bar around the corner - frank's? - i never bothered going in, despite my adventurous and unflinching nature. i had a friend who went in there once who "knew people," and they took him down into the basement. he said there was an off-limits room with a padlocked steel door; a guy opened it up and the room was empty and the brick walls were smeared with blood - kind of like the stuff you see only in l.a., i guess. many folks in that neighborhood had pits and bull mastiffs and paraded them around to show how bad they were. then, there's the east side by courtland center, i had relatives that lived out there. i know the wally's on pierson is gone; i wonder about the wally's out that way? wally's and farrell's ice cream were two big institutions we loved (among others, of course, but those were know for their excess). then there are the east side corridors of richfield road, genesee road, and center road. is kearsley park considered east side? i guess it depends on who you're asking. thanks kenp. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1320 Registered: 03-2006 |
Walli's is alive and kicking, I go their often. They split it in half and made one side into a bar. Some kind of chain. Old man Walli still comes in and still is owned and operated by the same family. Speaking of the East side, Luigi's is still operating, I go there almost every week | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1473 Registered: 04-2005 |
okay, that does it. i'm joining flint expatriates. and i vow to get a torch burger posthaste! | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1321 Registered: 03-2006 |
Funny story, I used to work out at UM-flint at night, walk over to the torch have about 5 beers and a Torch burger. Plus about 10 napkins. My wife grew up near Center north of Davison. They call that the East side. Kearsley park I never really considered East side, though I'm sure I am wrong about that | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 636 Registered: 06-2007 |
"There really isnt a area in Flint that is spared of crime. Nobody mentions the East side which is looking more and more like a third world country. The Maclaren area has been a problem for years." Ill take your word for it.But I cruised up there a year ago and the area by Swartz creek golf course was still very nice. Most of the mansions are still in good shape and I only saw upscale, newer cars parked outside. Its a well-preserved area. The area just north of that is very, very poor, but it seemed intact. I didnt feel fearful, and probably wouldnt have thought twice about getting out of the car if I had a reason to. Same with the areas off Fenton and west of S. Saginaw-the area near and south of Cody school. Total poverty, but block after block of occuppied houses. The Saginaw/Atherton area, near The Flint Golf Club, also has respectable blocks. In the last 8 years, Ive probably been to the area 10 times, mostly out of fascination and curiosity of metro Flint. There are quite a few areas of the city I have not felt that 'gut instinct' of fear in. Other areas have such an abnormally high number of occurances that I know to avoid them altogether. Intriguing city either way. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 637 Registered: 06-2007 |
Oh, and what happenned to the Elms Trailer Park on Dort? I went through there about 7 years ago when I was looking at various mobile parks, and it was surviving. Last year, I revisited it and it was empty, maybe 4 occuppied trailers altogether. I cant believe how far its fallen, so quickly. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 1053 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: Bull-fucking-shit. Given the virtual non-stop suburb bashing that takes place here, as well as the constant bashing of other major metro areas that rival Detroit, I find this statement extremely hypocritical. So it's OK DYESers to bash the suburbs, Ann Arbor, Chicago and other cities but it's "racist" if anyone says anything bad about Detroit? Nice double standard there. Yeah, it can't be that Detroit has a bad rep for constantly having one of the highest crime rates in America and for having the City Council, Mayor and School Board all under simultaneous criminal investigation, it MUST be racism! I guess you think Somalia's bad reputation is due to racism too, and not due to its being a lawless shithole where human life is worthless. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1323 Registered: 03-2006 |
Elms park is on my way home, I will check it out. There are a lot of nice nieghborhoods in Flint. There is a guy on here called Gumby who really can point out the positive spots in Flint. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1474 Registered: 04-2005 |
ken, some people define the east side of flint as areas bounded by arbitrary and debatable geographical borders. other folks define the east side of flint as any area bearing a disproportionate number of rednecks. no matter what the method, it's always subjective. i also worked at um-flint, for val stocker and gary parr. i was a bartender at "the brewery" at um-flint. they served alcohol to students on-premises. the place was shut down when some erstwhile mayoral candidate - woodrow stanley? - tried to rally there during a friday afternoon happy hour. patrons started out apathetic, then grew restless, then started heckling and asking to have the music put back on as the politician blathered in the background. the brewery, as we knew it, was quickly decommissioned. we also catered functions at the school, and one time i was part of a group that served the blue-bloods at the mott estate. the place was as grand as one might imagine, and i remember being particularly awed by the greenhouse. when i'd returned for my second degree at um-flint, i often dashed across saginaw street between classes for happy hour specials at tgif's. i think i could get two beers and an order of wings for under five bucks. i did love those wings, too. most of my computer science notebooks have hotsauce-orange fingerprints in the margins, from studying at friday's before exams! i'm glad to hear walli's is still around. i had a college graduation party there. we always went for the smorgasbord. unlimited portions of heavy, greasy food. nobody cared about, or knew about, cholesterol screenings at the time... | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1475 Registered: 04-2005 |
the area south of miller, between ballenger and hammerberg, had some pretty exclusive neighborhoods. that was always a really nice area to tour for viewing Christmas decorations during the holidays. also, the area south of court street, opposite the mott campus, has some stunning and uniquely beautiful homes. those neighborhoods are kind of neatly tucked away and inconspicuous. unfortunately, the neighborhoods i lived in featured the "baller on a budget" cribs. 2nd ave and grand traverse was a real experience. two weeks after i moved out, someone i knew was shot and killed right in front of my apartment. the white area was pretty much 2nd avenue and north, while the black area was 1st avenue and south. it was very racially charged there. right after i moved out, folks were mixing it up in the middle of 2nd ave, which happened regularly. some pissed off person fired into the crowd from a 2nd story window on 1st ave, and that was the end of ron bogue. more than likely i would have been in that crowd if i'd not moved. come to think of it, i worked at a drive-through convenience store at pierson and pasadena. every day, people were coming through offering me deals on stolen electronics and handguns. two weeks after i quit the place, someone came in and conducted a no-demands robbery, just started shooting; killed a lady named bev who was a mother of four, and shot a guy named alex in the face. yet another time in flint where i was one step ahead of a shooting. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1324 Registered: 03-2006 |
Thecarl, you probably worked with a guy named Russ Martz at UM, he is a friend of mine. I probably know you as well, I graduated in 1986 and spent time at the Brewery. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1476 Registered: 04-2005 |
kenp, i worked with a girl named audrey, a tom-selleck look-alike named todd, and a girl by the name of cindy dodson. there was also a security guy by the name of paul who was a complete tool. i worked there around 1984/85. russ martz, hmmm. was he a manager? do you remember when the brewery served to students??? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1881 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thecarl No offense but who the hell moves to Broadway and Lewis to get away from crime? Do you even look at the neighborhood before you move in? I am guessing your boarded up apartment complex from your description was Carriage Court Apartments. The day that place closed crime in that neighborhood had to drop. Nothing but drug dealers were living there. You couldn't walk by without someone asking you what you wanted. My buddy lived on Grand Traverse between 1st and 2nd for a year (in that tiny 2 story gray house on the west side of the street.) We used to sit on his porch and watch the activity at those apartments, pretty much non-stop all hours of the night. There are still plenty of neighborhoods in Flint which are relatively crime free. My neighborhood, Woodlawn Park (college cultural center) for example is about the safest you will see around here. Lived here for 2 years and the only problems I have had have been with 2 idiots from Flushing that a friend brought over after the bar that I had to kick out for being complete idiots. My grandparent live next door to me now and love the area and walk from their house to downtown through Cheddar_Bobs neighborhood and have never had a problem. My neighbors have lived here for 10 years and don't have problems. The major crime areas are on the north end of the city and it is mainly gang related. 9 times out of 10 when you here about a shooting it is gang members shooting rivals to which I say, "Is there really a loss? Let these idiots thin themselves out." | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1326 Registered: 03-2006 |
Thecarl, My freshman year was the first year for the UCEN. The Brewery was supposed to be a bar but they couldnt get a liquer liscense. So all they did was snacks and pop. On some Fridays they would get a temp lisc and served beer and wine. The entire time I was there it was like this. Russ worked for Gary Parr but it was late 80's early 90's. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1480 Registered: 04-2005 |
ken, i parlayed my bartending talent into stints at rush street on corunna road, and came out of retirement to help open the back room around 1991. i also worked at radio shack and ekos, back when ekos got started. the name "russ" rings a bell from u-m flint, but i don't recall interfacing with him directly. did he have an office next to gary's? by the michigan room? | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1882 Registered: 11-2003 |
I hope my last message didn't sound too harsh Thecarl. You lived in some rather rough areas in Flint and I am sure you have some facinating stories. But don't let the bad experiences cloud your perception of the city there are lots of great things happening. Downtown really is undergoing a transformation. The Berridge Hotel is no longer a transient hang out it is being turned into luxury loft apartments due to be opened by the end of the year, there is a great deli/antique store across the street form the Berridge whose owners are enthusiastic about Flint. The Durant is finally being renovated after more than 30 years of being vacant, it is being turned into 100 or so market rate apartments. The Rowe building is finally seeing substantial work again after the collapse of the wall over a year ago. Blackstone's clothing store in the old State theater building is being turned into an Irish American restaurant and will be open by St. Patricks Day. Also Channel 5 is finishing up there downtown studio in the Brand New Wade Trim Building, they will have a view of Flint St. life behind them much like the Today show has of New York. The U of M-Flint student housing is now open and they already have plans to build more building because of the success of the first. The Hyatt is going to be purchaced by the Crim organization and turned into a fitness center, small hotel and I am guessing offices in the remaining space. That is just a few of the things happening in Flint. While yes we have our violence here we also have 0our nice areas. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1482 Registered: 04-2005 |
hey gumby, the statement i made about moving from 2nd & grand traverse to the east side, to get away from the crime, was kind of tongue-in-cheek. i had a friend who's dad rehabbed the house at broadway and lewis, and turned it into a rental property. i later found out it was home to the avengers motorcycle club. i can only imagine what that place looked like inside before remodeling; it had a number of bullet holes on the outside from a .45 pistol. i lived there during the infamous riot on stewart street, if you know what that's about. it started with a bunch of rednecks with machetes terrorizing an african-american family. a friend and i walked past the house right before all hang broke loose; the people inside bolted out and came running up to us and checked us out real good to see if we were the ones causing problems. the situation escalated, and from what i recall, a couple of rednecks ended up getting their asses shot. too bad that events like that were so commonplace, i can't even remember all the details. i do believe carriage court was the name of my apartment complex; u-shaped, on the north side of 2nd, right between grand traverse and mason. during the summers, there was a fight on the street virtually every single night. everyone had their own favorite weapon; a golf club, baseball bat, nunchuks, steel rod, knife, etc. no one ever fought bare hands. guns were around, but rarely used. i do remember one time a friend came to see me, and we struck up a conversation with two dudes who lived across the street and sold their plasma to the plasma bank. they'd come home with masking tape holding cotton across the needle mark. so two black dudes came strolling down the street, and one of the guys we were talking to felt compelled to drop the n-bomb. the black dudes turned around, and one said to us, real cool: "you really need to be careful what you say. for all you know, i've got a gun under my hat right now, and i could waste you. do you agree it would be possible that i might have a gun under my hat?" the loudmouth agreed. the guy continued, "i think i heard you say n*gger, and i think an apology is in order." loudmouth says, "hey, i didn't say what you think i did, but i apologize if anything i said offended you." the guy took off his hat, and held it over his chest. he said he did, in fact, hear the n-word, and he really wanted an apology. i thought we were all getting shot on account of this jackhole - but dude straightened up and gave a real nice apology. so, the guy put his hat back on, walked around the corner onto 1st ave, went into darcy's bar - and shot and killed a man. so, i guess moving from 2nd ave was in fact, getting away from crime - but it was out of the fat, into the fire. i had my apprehensions about broadway and lewis, but my friend assured me it was safe. i lived there for two months and split and told him i was severely mislead. plus, i defiled his sister, who was absolutely beautiful, for good measure. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 6931 Registered: 12-2005 |
From Detnews: quote:What's so special about Troy? | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1483 Registered: 04-2005 |
quote: gumby, i didn't take it that way at all. i was living on a shoestring budget when i first moved to flint, and i lived in some bad areas, that's for sure. it's a reflection of some of the places i chose to live, not flint overall. because i was young and fearless, i don't even describe my many crazy and life-threatening encounters as "bad experiences." now, in 2008, i was indeed happy to see folks working on the berridge last sunday. i know that place well. i was also very pleased when student housing went up around u-m flint, and i thought the arches on saginaw street were handsome and added warmth. (it'll be interesting to see what happens with genesee tower.) i guess anyone who's truly objective could see that i had genuine concern over the whole thomson street debacle. the lapeer road area has become a problem spot, where it wasn't before. i drove past the old wwck (?) facility off dort highway, and it looked pretty bombed out. when i lived there the problem areas were primarily the north end (starting past hamilton), detroit street, welch blvd, the area behind hurley, and pierson & clio. the pierson road element was moving south and now that northwest side doesn't look too good. i also heard kearsley park was getting a bit rough, which is a shame. it's a classic and charming area. but, i remember hearing about what was reported to be gang retaliation during a funeral at brown funeral home. i drive through the city because i do have so many fond memories of the place. i'm optimistic but realistic. i always dreamed of seeing the durant hotel restored; i even had a plan for it in my mind. now, the work is being done - but then i think, the sheraton never really got a foothold, so what will happen when work on the durant is finished? one thing i lamented while i was there, was the lack of support by radio stations for the local music scene. there were so many talented people and i thought it would be cool if the stations played and promoted music by local groups, to get a regional following, and create a music industry. oh, and hey, i was severely bummed to hear that doug from wyatt earp's had passed at such a young age. he was a regular in one of the crowds i hung with, and a genuine good guy. okay, i guess that's enough for now. i probably need to move my ramblings over to flint expats! | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 832 Registered: 04-2005 |
quote: cheddar_bob, these are my observations based upon a short recon i did last friday: 924 eddy, abandoned 606 crapo, boarded 724 east, abandoned? 914 2nd, abandoned? 529 avon, partly boarded 431 avon, boarded garage 810 avon, gutted 809 avon, abandoned? 811 thomson, abandoned? 735 thomson, abandoned 728 thomson, entry door boarded 414 thomson, entry door boarded 606/608 pierson, abandoned? 704 pierson, boarded 719 pierson, boarded 808 pierson, boarded of course, there is the "old store" at second and thompson that is boarded up, plus the house once standing next to it that's now missing, and my ex-girlfriend's house that's gone, and at least one other house that's missing. so, the preliminary tally is, at least 3 houses missing, and 17 dwellings that are abandoned or have boarded-up windows or doors, and two businesses - a party store and a pizza joint - that are shuttered. there were other buildings that had fire damage and boarded windows or entrances that i saw from behind, but couldn't backtrack to because of all the barricades in the neighborhood. i also learned from a lady at riverside tabernacle that the barricades have created serious confusion for emergency workers responding to calls in the area. furthermore, i was told there was a killing on thomson over a drug deal gone bad, a possible similar killing on 2nd, and a recent stabbing death on avon drive. this is a neighborhood of once-proud homeowners and their former houses, situated in flint's cultural center. it's saddening and shocking to see. |
