  Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 1 Registered: 05-2008 |
Hey everyone, I'm Scott from Bay City (120 miles north of Detroit) Just want to say that I love your city and I've been traveling there since I was a little kid. I was wondering if anyone could tell me about the remains of a building in Grand Circus Park. Its on the west side of Woodward and I always see it when I start walking up Washington from the park as well as from the people mover. Its the four or so story brick structure in that grassy lot on Bagley. Was it part of a theatre? appartments? I'm just curious if anyone can tell me a little history of the place. Thanks, Scott. | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 393 Registered: 04-2006 |
That's the old Statler Hotel, which was later the Statler-Hilton. Torn down prior to Super Bowl XL. | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1544 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ummm the statler was torn down, and it was much taller than 4 stories. I think Scott is referring to the old AAA building that is just west of the statler site. | ||
Mortgageking Member Username: Mortgageking Post Number: 76 Registered: 12-2006 |
I feel really bad for the owner of that building. Those irresponsible demolition crews damaged his property. Now he is stuck with a burned-out shell and nothing to do with it. | ||
Gotdetroit Member Username: Gotdetroit Post Number: 162 Registered: 12-2005 |
Mortgageking: That is sarcasm, right? | ||
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2008 |
Okay, now I'm confused. I thought the Statler had a white limestone-like facade on the first floor with red brick above that. The structure I'm talking about is all one color, kind of a sandy colored brick. Its right in the vicinity of the Statler and I think you can see it in the picture of the Statler on this page. I did a street view on Google and it's at roughly 138 Bagley. | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 867 Registered: 04-2006 |
are you thinking of this one, Scott? http://www.forgottendetroit.co m/statler/index.html hope that helps! - andy p.s. my grandfather was from BC, moved to detroit when he was a young boy. | ||
Mortgageking Member Username: Mortgageking Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2006 |
Ahh yes. That old beaut is just waiting for an enterprising developer to snap it up and turn it into luxurious sky lofts. Lofts at 138 has a nice ring to it. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6887 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well he certainly didn't have anything to do with the damage caused to his building by the Statler demo. But folks here like to flippantly call HIM the slumlord. Funny that! The property is still in litigation. And since the DEGC doesn't want to talk to him, I told him last time I saw him that he should contact Dan Gilbert directly. Welcome to the forum Bcscott! That building is known as the AAA Building. It was leased to Michigan AAA back in 1916 for a 99 year lease. That lease was still in effect when the Statler demo was ungoing a few years back. The folks who were doing the demo dropped some items onto the roof of the AAA building (can't remember exactly what it was) and it caused the building to catch fire and gut the upper floors. Now with the Statler gone, the block is one of the blocks in contention for the site of the future Quicken HQ. Some folks here think that the building owner is hindering the project. But the Detroit Economic Growth Corporation (the city group that handles downtown development) has not contacted the building owner at all about selling the remaining (burned out) parcel on the Statler block. So now there it sits... until either the city and contractors settle the lawsuit, or until they offer to buy the building outright. | ||
Mortgageking Member Username: Mortgageking Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2006 |
Are you his lawyer or something? | ||
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 3 Registered: 05-2008 |
Thanks everyone and thank you Gistok for the welcome and the info. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6888 Registered: 08-2004 |
No Mortgageking, but I am an acquaintance of his. So I get an earful from him, as well as from the forum!  By the way his Michigan Building across the street is fully leased, an enviable position for a downtown office building owner these days. | ||
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2008 |
Now that we've got the name of the building pinned down does anyone know what the AAA stands for? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2294 Registered: 12-2005 |
Automobile Association of America | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2375 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gistok, tell you acquaintance, the much harassed owner of the AAA building,that 53 years ago I delivered mail in that building for the AAA. Wonderful building it was. We referred to it as The Club Building. The Travel Department and the Road Service were on the main floor, exec offices, including my dad's who was Director of Public Relations and Asst Gen Mgr of the DAIIE, were upstairs. Our mail dept was across the street on the 11th floor of the UA Building. AAA occupied most of the UA Building back then. There were other tenants, a watch repairman, a chiropractor, and the barber who also was a bookie. I visited all three as needed.We would deliver inter-office mail to both buildings, and when the Greyhound Bus station behind the old Mich Cons Gas Co building opened, we would haul a mail bag over there to put on the bus for the AAA Kalamazoo office. When we got paid, we mailboys would celebrate with a grilled cheese sandwich and a chocolate malt in the Shapero Drug Store which was in the Michigan Theater Building. If we had time, we would then hoof it over to the Statler and listen to the DJ for WXYZ who ran his noon radio program from the beautiful lobby of the Statler Hotel. Good times a good half century ago. | ||
Bcscott Member Username: Bcscott Post Number: 5 Registered: 05-2008 |
Oh, THAT tripple A. Duh, I should've known that. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 510 Registered: 03-2008 |
Wow! So no plans to renovate it without some sort of settlement first, correct? Could it be renovated? Is it just the top floor that was damaged? I wounder how the foundation took to the water from the fire? As well as the demolition of the Statler. It looks like a pretty solid building. Fire damage isn't necessarily a death sentence, is it? How bad is it? I really think that block would work better with multiple tenants. Kind of like the Broderick Block, but not EXACTLY. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6889 Registered: 08-2004 |
Sean, I think that that building is toast. It's not that much architecturally speaking. If it were to hinder a larger development for the whole block, (such as a Quicken HQ) then it should come down. The building owner is no preservation guru like Chuck Forbes, but I've been trying to get him more interested in the history and architecture of his buildings, especially the Michigan Building, and more specifically the former theatre space. The former Michigan Theatre space is a one-of-a-kind space that gets more visitors from people around the world than any of Detroit's ruins, even the MCS. During the 2008 Auto Show alone 12 groups requested permission to tour the former theatre space. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 533 Registered: 03-2008 |
That theater just screams drive in theater. Maybe family films on Saturday nights followed by something for the parents after. Put in a Sonic or Daily's too, and advertise dinner and a movie. You could still have it as a regular parking lot during office hours. I'm guessing the place is empty at night, correct? Gistok, you should talk to him, and we could get something going. Wonder if it would be big enough. (Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on May 28, 2008) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6891 Registered: 08-2004 |
Interesting thought Sean. But unfortunately there's no restrooms or snack bar available (well there are restrooms, but they're in the office tower). I'm not sure that it would be a good security risk. But I'll mention it to him anyways. Unfortunately there's only enough room for about 30-50 cars up on top (just a guess). The parking structure is a popular spot for Lion's game tailgaters. The building owner even provides a huge flat screen TV (with satellite hookup) for folks parking on the top level of the structure (no BBQ allowed). | ||
Ja1mz Member Username: Ja1mz Post Number: 116 Registered: 02-2007 |
the rock-My biological father owned the watch repair business in UA building, I dont' know much about his store there, his name was Chet Card,any stories, memories of the store would be a great treasure for me if you had any... | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2003 |
Is there a way to get a tour of the Michigan? Id love to see this place Sean is talking about with the drive in and all. I dont understand the drive in theater idea, parking lot, game day thing. Im just totally ignorant on the building itself. Im also interested, if you would all be so kind, as to what structure was in the movie 8 mile. It looked as if there was a parking lot with a huge structure over it, decorative as I remember. I dont know where they filmed that scene. The scene, I believe, involved Eminem pulling the legs out from under a rival while the rival was standing on a car. Im dying to check out that place. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 1331 Registered: 08-2007 |
same place django ... go to flickr.com and search for Michigan theater. there are a ton of pix. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 4102 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: http://www.preservationwayne.o rg/tours_theater.php | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 631 Registered: 10-2003 |
I thought so Gnome, or I had a feeling anyway. Thanks Pam, Ill save up for the tour. Id love to take my girl. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2377 Registered: 11-2003 |
ja1mz--it has been a while, but I can tell you that several of the AAA employees took their watches to your dad for repair and cleaning. My dad's trusty Bulova was there on a couple of occasions. I recall that the shop was located on one of the upper floors. I do have one story: I had an old ship's clock that used to strike on the half hour. A real old-timer that fell into disrepair. My dad suggested I take it down to the watch shop in the UA building, and I did. I recall walking in and asking him if he fixed ship's clocks, and his answer, and I am quoting now , was: "A clock is a clock". He fixed it and it is striking to this day. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 539 Registered: 03-2008 |
Gistok, all that could easily be worked out. I'm involved in a electrical/construction contracting start-up, I could get the work done for a song if I was involved in the project. It wouldn't be major work, but yeah those issues could easily be worked out. I've honestly never seen the garage first hand from the inside, but have seen many pictures. I also used to live down the street from it, so I know the area and possible problems that could arise (traffic flow, crime, etc.). I think 30-50 cars could work. It would take a little to get it started though. I would be more than willing to cover start-up costs up to a point. It might just work. Even if not an every night thing, it would do GREAT during special events. Maybe we could get something together for the Dream Cruise. I would be more than happy to put a business plan and market/cost analyses together if you really think he might be interested. If he is, maybe we could get together and I could get some measurements and such to see how much it would cost to do, and how many cars we could fit in there comfortably. Security concerns would have to be addressed. But, I think that we could address those. This could be one of those things that might be a bad idea if it's a bad idea. It also might be one of those things that has potential to be a great idea if it's a good idea. That would be worked out in the numbers. Maybe mention it, and see what he thinks? If you'd like we can keep posting here, or you can E-mail me at this name at Yahoo.com. On another note; To people who have been sending me E-mails... I check my E-mail a couple times a week. I apologize for being busy a lot. If anyone Emailed me here I'll be back with you ASAP. I got a little better response from people here than I thought. Sorry! We just got our inventory in, so I'm hoping to be open very soon. Also, I am just gettin' back in the swing of things after my little mini vacation. So I appreciate every one's understanding. | ||
Ja1mz Member Username: Ja1mz Post Number: 117 Registered: 02-2007 |
The rock- What a great story, we didn't see much of each other through the years, I believe he moved the store to Farmington in '70's. My father who adopted me had told me his shop was in the UA building. I worked downtown for a few years and would always wonder about the store when I would drive by the UA building. Can't find many pics of that building in its heyday online, I wish I could find info on the old store. Chet passed away in '03, I still have an old accutron electric watch he gave me as a graduation present back in the '80's. Thanks again for the info it truly made my day.. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6894 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the history The_rock. I'll send Mr. Pieroni an EMAIL to have him check out this thread. All great stories! Sean, the building owner is really busy right now, so I'm not sure he'd be interested in a movie theatre on the top level of the building. There are other safety issues that would have to be addressed, such as city permits. That's a logistical nightmare all by itself. And then there's the issue of people climbing onto the former lobby's north side (seen in the right of the photo below).  It would be very easy (not to mention intriguing) for people to climb over the railing and get into the north stair tower, which has no railings and is dangerous. The south stair tower (behind the brick wall on the left) is secured via brick walls, but the north tower is not. Sean, since it sounds like you're an electrician... maybe you could answer a few simple questions... I've been giving the building owner a few ideas for lighting up the great arched window above the former theatre's entrance. This window is a false window. The former lobby space is actually about 40-50ft back from the window, so the architect designed it so that mirrors would be placed in a semi-circular pattern around the window itself. That way it would appear that you were peering into the grand lobby (back in the theatre days). This arched false window is actually the greatest one of its' kind in the country. I've done research of the largest surviving movie palaces, and there are no other theatres that have a false window of a size and proportion to match this glorious 40ft tall soaring space (see below)...  The question becomes... how do you get electrical work done in a space that has only a single (36 inch wide) door sized entrance, with no room to bring in a Cherry-Picker? Scaffolding would be very expensive, would it not? What options are you aware of to perform some lofty electrical work in so confined a space. The idea is to put in some spotlights set at angles around the window facing towards the mirrors, thus throwing a kaleidescope of light onto the street. My initial (half joking) idea was to use laser lights, but then again we don't want to cause retina burns to passersby! But the owner does want to take advantage of this amazing space, especially in light of the fact that this window is unique (on such a vast scale) in America! In addition, another possibility would be to have some highly reflective moving objects suspended from the ceiling of this space (thus adding movement to the kaleidescope of light thrown out into the street), but then that too would require some lofty work. Sean (or anyone) any ideas for how to do this without turning it into a major project? My idea was to turn this false window into a show stopper for nighttime passersby. But the devil is in the details! In the daytime most people pay no attention to this great classic arched window, but at night (if done right) it could be a unique addition to the rejuvenation of downtown Detroit.  P.S. Sadly, restoring the theatre is not an option. Arcadia Press Detroit Movie Palace book author Mike Hauser once told me it would cost at least $60 million to restore the Michigan to its' former grandeur. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6896 Registered: 08-2004 |
Ja1mz... seek and yee shall find.... the United Artists Building in its' heyday... before they remodeled the lower facade, and before they punched windows into the Tuller Hotel side of the building. Early on they must have thought that another tall building was going to go between the United Artists and Tuller, but that was not to be.   ... and the United Artists Building today with windows on the (former) Tuller side. This later renovation explains why the architecture of the Tuller side of the building doesn't quite match the front and other (Michigan Building) side...  | ||
Ja1mz Member Username: Ja1mz Post Number: 118 Registered: 02-2007 |
Cool, thanks for the pictures,Gistok | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 546 Registered: 03-2008 |
Gistok, I'll answer your question first. I am new to electrical, but I have grown up around construction and electrical. My father and older brother are both electricians, and I know some other people in other areas. I can ask around for suggestions from some of them. They are all more knowledgeable than me. But we could probably hook you up with something like the lighting at Comerica Park. Have you ever seen the lights at night? They use a High End ES-1 Fixture. and controlled by a status one controller. These (I think, but am not 100% sure) can do amazing things. They also are used to do some of the affects on the new Motor City Casino Tower. They are probably a little to expensive and extravagant for what you want to use them for though. What could work just as good for your purpose, with the exact same effect (but on a much smaller scale) would be much more basic LED pin spotlights. It would make the whole inside area look as if it was glowing gold (or whatever color you'd like). It also would not light up the mirrors if you did not want it to (no bright reflections on the mirrors at the cars on the road). So only the accents would be lit up. I am not 100% sure what this system would run. If you are interested, we could run an estimate for you. Honestly, if I had to guess (and the best I can do is a ball park educated guess until I could actually see the space) it would be much cheaper than you probably think. The pin spots would not have to be lugged up in the window space, but rather probably hidden somewhere near the bottom/ground. So no excessive scaffolding or cherry picker would be necessary. Probably just a latter would be needed. The lights themselves can be a little pricey though. But, they use little power compared to other options, and should not burn out for many years. We generally charge less than many others in the area. The company is called "All Electric" (sorry for the plug ). I can talk to some of the other guys, I could probably get you a free estimate if you're interested in pursuing this further. We are usually cheaper than most others in the area. ________________ Now, that drive in idea. I understand if he'd be to busy. But maybe we could just explore this idea when he has a free moment. Maybe he'd be willing to rent the space to someone like me/us to get going. For something like this... It should be noted that I wouldn't expect any money until he got his payout first. Just saying, think about it a little. It could possibly be a really nice draw, and make a decent amount of money. It could also really help some of his own first floor retail tenants. Gistok, I'm kind of a weird case. I guess if I had to describe myself, I would say I'm a coordinator. So I'd be more than interested in getting it going and successful, and then look for someone else to run it eventually, if he does not wish to do it himself. Maybe we could get with the people who run the Ford and Wyoming Drive In (they also run the Ren Cen theater). I think this is a unique enough project to spend time on. Maybe instead of looking at opening this year, we could plan on looking into (or I could) opening within the next two summers. The building isn't going anywhere, and that would be plenty of time to do a feasibility study and business plan. If the numbers work, and I/we could come up with enough solutions to those opportunities and problems, then it might be a good idea. It wouldn't hurt to look into it. As long as he'd at least be open to this idea, I would be more than willing to add this project to my list. It just really seems like there are some tourist dollars that he could really be making there. I maybe could take one of those preservation Wayne Tours this summer. I should be able to get enough information to get me started from that tour alone. That way it wouldn't inconvenience him at all. He doesn't have to put any time into this right now. If it's feasible, maybe he would be willing to contract the work out (he'd get paid up front of course), or just lease/rent the space in the evenings. It just seems like one of those things we could and should be looking into. The potential and opportunity is just there staring us in the face. Let's run the numbers. When I'm not on here, this is what I do. I put little projects like this together. So if he would even be willing to consider it, I'd be happy to put it together. If it proves to be a bad and unfeasible idea, so be it. I'm young and need all the practice I can get. No waste of time for me. He owns the building, that's his concern. This could just be yet another source of income for his building in the long run. If he's interested, let me run the numbers. I understand the security and permit concerns. I will have to take all those issues into account. That's what the plan is for. He could run it himself if he is interested. Otherwise he could just act as land lord, and contract the work out or rent the space at night. That way securing the space could also fall on someone else's shoulders. That is, after we figure out what would need to be done, and fix what needs to be fixed with his approval (of course). The window could even be part of this project. It would attract interest and be like a marquee of sorts. People would see that, and know what it is. It could really be a land mark again. All that, and he wouldn't have to spend a dime, or spend much time (if any) on it. Insurance, security... all that would be taken into account. I don't know, it might be a bad idea. But it also could be a very lucrative idea. Plus, it could really add to the city. That is a very unique place. People like unique. People will pay for unique. It's a win, win, win. People would get to see it and use it, it would be maintained better, and he'd get paid to have all this happen. I'm going to ask around about that lighting predicament a little more. Make sure that would be the best option. I think it really might be though. I love all the opportunities in this city. You just don't have things like this going on in New York or Dubai LOL, only in Detroit! | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 547 Registered: 03-2008 |
Oh, those lights on Comerica. I'm talking about the color changing rainbow effect on the outside. Those lights are aimed up at the stands (seats) from the ground and rafters/supports. I tried to do a search on Google for pictures, but I can't find any. It would really look sharp in that window though. Next time you're by Comerica in the evening, take a look for the Fox or Midtown area. You will see what I mean. Then imagine those in gold or copper, or something like that. Is that what you had in mind? Tell me what you think. I may have did a bad job of explaining the effect I think. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6897 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks Sean. I'm going to EMAIL him and ask him to read this thread when he has a chance. He posts here occasionally, usually to defend himself from folks here who casually call him a slumlord (because of the AAA Building situation). He'll be out of town, so I don't know about any quick response. But I do know that he (and his insurance company) take safety in the former theatre space very seriously. So I wouldn't be too optimistic about the drive-in theatre idea. But I can't speak for him. As for lighting the window, the ideal thing would be something that does not generate a lot of heat. That room was pretty warm when I was in there last summer. And as for lighting up the mirrors... the mirrors are the unique part of that window space. He's had the mirrors repaired and the window reglazed recently. Lighting the mirrors up and reflecting the light outwards (not necessarily only onto the street) in a dazzling light show would be awesome. After all this is a unique window in a unique building, so why not flaunt it! | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 548 Registered: 03-2008 |
LOL, well that would even make it easier. Heat is not an issue. These are LED lights. Just a lot of them. They each produce less than a fluorescent light bulb (and use less electricity). Seriously, the most expensive thing is going to be the actual lights, but not extremely expensive. I will ask around as early as tomorrow. If you do choose to go with someone else, I'd still be more than happy to send you some information about the actual lights. That could help. I won't get my hopes up either. Safety is always number one with me. It would be on any project I am involved in. That would be first and foremost. That would have to be overcome. I really think there is a good chance it could be "made" safe. But I'd have to see it before I will say that. (Message edited by Sean_of_Detroit on May 28, 2008) | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 601 Registered: 03-2008 |
Let me know when you hear anything. | ||
Strathcona Member Username: Strathcona Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2008 |
Sean_of_detroit, you do about 25 posts a day--wow. I am lucky to get 1 a week. Where do you work again? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6912 Registered: 08-2004 |
Sean, the building owner just contacted me. Drop me an EMAIL: istokg AT earthlink DOT net Don't worry about my SpamBlocker, I'll get back to you. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 656 Registered: 03-2008 |
Gistok, I didn't see your post until this morning because DetroitYES was down. You'll have that E-mail as soon as you get going tomorrow (Wednesday) morning. It's done and in my que to send late tonight. E-mails to others have already been sent as well. Hope to hear back from you soon! | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 658 Registered: 03-2008 |
I don't usually post a ton as regularly as it appears Strathcona. Here's my secret, if you want to know more details I explain below. It's just for anyone who wants to know. Gistok, you can skip this. This has nothing to do with the Michigan Building. I plan EVERYTHING down to a crazy scale. My time is very precious to me. I work from home. I am currently finishing up several projects (this Michigan Building stuff comes at a great time for me). I have a E-commerce website going up this weekend. I've been working on it for the past few months, along with the business plan for it. I also am just finishing up work with All Electric, a family electrical and construction business. Both are start-ups. I also do a ton of small projects including designing web sites, buying and re-selling items on EBay, and help a business partner and best friend do street vending in the CBD and the suburbs, as well as in some of the satelite cities. I do not commute every day. I drive a lot from job to job, but usually just stay where I end up. I either live out of a suit case, stay at a room I rent in New Center, stay at my fiance's in Saginaw, or stay with my best friend or father's place in the suburbs. I try to coordinate jobs by distance and run arends along the way. I'm trying to consolidate all this down into a condo/home office with my fiancee in the CBD, and drop my place in New Center. New Center was more in the center, but if all my work is in Detroit and the inner suburbs, it will be more practical to locate downtown. I handle my business first. Work is always before play. ALWAYS! However, I have a weird way of doing things. For most of my work I have to the luxury of working to my own schedule. I found it is best to work in little intense bursts for about two or three hours (or less) at a time. I take little tiny ten and fifteen minute breaks in between those bursts, but do the bursts until I accumulate at least ten hours of work every day, five to six days a week. I don't go out or sit and watch much T.V. until after my ten hours is done for the day. That ten hours can be at any time throughout the day though. The only time I stick to normal 9-5 type schedule is on electrical jobs, at vending events, or when it is necessary for the accommodation of others. I am also almost always connected to The Internet via my lap top or cell phone. This site actually saves me time by allowing me to have some form of a social life. Before I started posting on this and other message boards, I had no time to meet new people and socialize. I also am very passionate about this city, and the things I talk about on here. I love it here, it allows me to have some form of a life. Twenty five is over exagerating just a little. I don't post THAT much every day. Majority of my long posts are really thought out. I usually keep it around ten. The only times I go over are when people ask me questions about my posts. EDIT: Length (Message edited by Sean_Of_Detroit on June 04, 2008) |
