  E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1676 Registered: 11-2004 |
Seems all is not well in Monaghanland. Moving school is not easy as pie Laure Berman The Detroit News Like many magnates with eccentric ambitions and deep pockets before him, Tom Monaghan is finding the undulating landscape of Florida real estate values difficult to navigate. His utopian plan to build a Catholic town, by erecting a university and transplanting his Ann Arbor law school to the Naples area, lurches ahead, even as the still-Ann Arbor-based Ave Maria Law School sheds professors, students and its academic reputation over the planned move. In the latest setback, the school announced that instead of moving to Ave Maria Town in September 2009, it will move into the 12-acre campus in Naples vacated by Ave Maria University -- a cost-cutting move during a real estate downturn. The law school's embattled dean recently took a medical leave of absence as the school's ranking fell in U.S. News & World Report, plunging near the bottom of the fourth-and-last law school tier. And judging by appearances, Monaghan's quest to establish a community grounded in Catholic family has devolved into an earthly nightmare of infuriated lawyers, lawsuits and disgruntled alumni. Three of the school's former law professors filed suit last fall against Monaghan and the Ann Arbor law school for firing them. "They found out that if you raise any issues of governance, you have no job," says Deborah Gordon, the Bloomfield Hills lawyer representing them. The Domino's Pizza founder has always had a reputation as a mercurial and temperamental employer. As the owner of the Detroit Tigers, he once fired legendary U-M football coach Bo Schembechler, who was serving as president of the Tigers. In the lawsuit deposition, still in process, Monaghan described his Florida residence "in a dorm on campus," in a wing he shares with Ave Maria priests, taking his meals in the cafeteria. Citing his holdings in real estate, Monaghan said his "liquid" holdings have declined to about $30 million in liquid assets, with about $200 million in real estate, much of that in his vast Floridian acreage. Even his Ann Arbor corporate showplace, Domino's Farms, is now mortgaged for "north of" $60 million, he said. For now, Monaghan commutes between his Ave Maria dorm room and the Ann Arbor home he shares with his wife, as he works to salvage his dream of a community united by religious values, excellent education, and a brisk real estate market. He envisions "less crime and a wholesome family environment." While declining to call Ave Maria a "Catholic town," he said in court papers that he expected most residents to be Catholics. But many of those who shared his dream of a Catholic law school only four or five years ago have become his antagonists. The fellow who got rich selling pizzas to Ann Arbor kids in dorms is flipping his own life story -- tucked in his dorm room, assets dwindling, trying to deliver one more grand scheme, one more time. You can reach Laura Berman at (248) 647-7221 or lberman@detnews.com. http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20080510/OPINI ON03/805100337 | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 1674 Registered: 09-2005 |
I hope he makes every effort to make his segregated dream a success - spending at least $30 million more in his attempt. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 145 Registered: 01-2007 |
quote: Is this just poorly written or am I missing something? Did they vacate and now they're moving back in or are they just not moving out? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2266 Registered: 12-2005 |
"a fool and his money are soon parted" Benjamin Franklin Matthew 19:24 | ||
Texorama Member Username: Texorama Post Number: 226 Registered: 12-2006 |
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy . . . hope he ends up back slinging pizzas. | ||
Dbc Member Username: Dbc Post Number: 124 Registered: 09-2006 |
That whole "Catholic Town" thing reminds of some social experiment or Potemkin village you'd find in a Stalinist dictatorship or something out of Iran or Saudi Arabia. I mean, he originally tried to disallow completely legal things in the town that went against the Church's tenets. WTF Tom, this is not a theocracy! I'm also glad Ave Maria Law School is being viewed as the sham it is. I mean how can you have any respect for a law school having an admittedly conservative Catholic agenda and erected by someone trying to create a town where the rights of its citizens are dictated by edicts of the Catholic Church. Again, this is not a theocracy. What a jackass! Sorry for the rant, but I'm offended as a Catholic and an attorney. And yes, that is possible. (PLEASE INSERT OTHER JOKE(S) HERE.) (Message edited by dbc on May 12, 2008) | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1787 Registered: 11-2003 |
Tom Monaghan kinda reminds me of Dick DeVos if he would have taken control of Michigan. | ||
Spaceman_spiff Member Username: Spaceman_spiff Post Number: 121 Registered: 02-2006 |
Dbc, Ave Maria School of Law is not a sham. It is a fully accredited law school by the American Bar Association, the authoritative body on the topic. Its graduates have enjoyed a high bar passage rate followed by successful legal careers, including a high number of judicial clerkships. The faculty at the school were outstanding academics and professionals, with a sincere interest in providing their students with the best possible education. I have been thoroughly impressed in my dealings with the students, alumni, and faculty at AMSOL, and I feel that calling the school a "sham" is indefensible. I agree that Tom Monaghan is a jackass. -spiff | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 233 Registered: 10-2006 |
Sorry, Spaceman, Ave Maria IS a joke. They are ranked among the very worst law schools in the country, they had the lowest bar passage rate in the state for 2007 (and that's saying something when you're below Cooley) and they are in danger of having their accredation yanked by the ABA. I don't think the law school or the larger institution will be around 10 years from now. | ||
Spaceman_spiff Member Username: Spaceman_spiff Post Number: 122 Registered: 02-2006 |
The Princeton Review ranked Ave Maria's faculty fourth in the nation, they had either the highest or second highest bar passage rates in the state for 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2006, and the ABA has not stated that they intend to revoke Ave Maria's accreditation. I think that the law school, at least as I know it, will not be around even two years from now. -spiff | ||
Dtowncitylover Member Username: Dtowncitylover Post Number: 109 Registered: 02-2008 |
I feel that the only reason why you people hate Ave Marie Law is that it is a conservative Catholic institution, which is a pretty lame reason to hate something... "I mean how can you have any respect for a law school having an admittedly conservative Catholic agenda..." You make it seem being a conservative Catholic is the worst thing next to the devil himself. How can I have respect for such a feeling? "...Potemkin village you'd find in a Stalinist dictatorship..."- actually Potemkin village came from Catherine the Great and there is not historical fact for such places even existing! But understand what you mean because Stalin did create some "towns" for international guests. Mr. Monaghan has every right to build himself a town. If you don't like it, never live there...but I am sure there are people that would like to love in such a town, people who believe in the traditional way of doing things within the Catholic church. I mean I think we are bloating a very small, and non-problamatic, issue. | ||
Dbc Member Username: Dbc Post Number: 125 Registered: 09-2006 |
The Potemkin Village crack was tongue in cheek, so I should have put a smiley face by it. Also, I believe North Korea, which is a Stalinist style dictatorship, actually has a Potemkin village or two. As for the conservative Catholic thing, I absolutely have a problem with an institution that, in its own words, offers a "legal education in fidelity to the Catholic Faith." If the graduates become judges or law enforcement officials, will they defer to the authority of our Constitution and laws or the Pope and canon law? As for his town, there is nothing wrong with people wanting to live there, but he cannot just bar licit things he deems against Catholicism, as he had originally planned to do. I mean, in order to build a town "aligned with traditional family values," he wanted to ban not only Playboy, Hustler, and pornographic cable, but the freakin' pill!••• Last time I looked, the pill is perfectly legal and not every woman who takes it is trying to avoid pregnancy. More importantly, how the hell is it any of his business. WTF? I am a practicing Catholic, but I cannot stand anything that smacks of theocracy. Also, I disagree this is no big deal, because if his original plan was successful, it would set a horrible precedent. It’s one thing for people of a similar faith to choose to live together, but it’s entirely different when the administration of the town’s laws is based on a specific religion. On a personal level, I’m also sick and tired of this “family values” crap. It is so utterly narrow-minded, bigoted, and condescending to cast only those in line with YOUR religious or cultural beliefs as possessing such values. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 661 Registered: 04-2005 |
Not to mention that having a town ruled by the tenets of ANY specific religion would go against Constitutional law. | ||
Dtowncitylover Member Username: Dtowncitylover Post Number: 111 Registered: 02-2008 |
Well, everyone has a potemkin village...I mean when family comes in from out of town we want to show them the good side, not the bad... Jcole, remember the 1st amendment is freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion... When some someone graduates from AMLS, the fidelity is that they will abide with Catholic doctrine, as with abortion or capital punishment. Hypothetical situation: I am the supreme court judge looking over Roe v. Wade. I am conservative and Catholic and have fidelity to the pope. This means that I will want to overturn RvW. This doesn't mean using canon law and no Catholic takes an oath to the Pope, unless of course one becomes a priest...I think. Fidelity just means living by Catholic church standards, not some sort of oath. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 681 Registered: 04-2005 |
How can one have freedom of religion in a town that is declared Catholic in doctrine. The Catholics have freedom, no one else does. BTW, I was born and raised Catholic, so this isn't an anti-Catholic rant. Just a discussion. | ||
Mallory Member Username: Mallory Post Number: 252 Registered: 05-2006 |
Sirrealone- To answer your question, they had set up a mini campus in Naples while the town was being built. When the official campus was finished, they moved out of that space, which has since sat vacant. I guess they will be moving in to that space. I live here in Naples and I can tell you two things: the "town" is beautiful, but it reminds me of a commune. It's in the middle of nowhere but when you are on campus, you feel like you're part of the Truman Show or something. Kinda weird. BTW - Ave Maria University in Florida is NOT yet accredited. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 1676 Registered: 09-2005 |
Dtowncitylover: "Jcole, remember the 1st amendment is freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion..." - Absolute and total nonsense. The 1st Amendment means that you can have any religion, or NO RELIGION, if that is your choice. The U.S. government is (or should be, if it followed the Constitution) indifferent to religion. The Religious Right has tried to twist the amendment to mean, "Hey, it's a cafeteria - choose any religion you want, but you MUST choose at least one." Nope. Never was, never will be. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2269 Registered: 12-2005 |
Look at any country governed by religion. No thanks | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 707 Registered: 04-2005 |
Alan55, Thank you for clarifying what I was trying to get across. The reason the original Pilgrims came to this country was because the government ran the show when it came to religion over in Europe and they wanted to be free to worship as they wished. If the King was Catholic, so were you. If the new King was Lutheran, get ready to either become one or take your religion underground. | ||
Dtowncitylover Member Username: Dtowncitylover Post Number: 113 Registered: 02-2008 |
Jcole, then what did the Puritans/Pilgrims do? Kick out anyone who disagreed with their beliefs! That's how states, like Rhode Island, were started. The only real state founded by a religion that tolerated another, was Pennsylvania founded by Quakers. They allowed Catholics, which in early America were treated like foreigners. Today's society makes religion to be an institution that is boring, no-fun, and intolerant. Today, freedom FROM religion is society's main goal. it is hard to be a devout whatever because people are going to think you are nuts. Some of my friends are just like that. I am not saying you CAN'T have a religion, I actually don't know what I am saying. I think I might be playing, to use a cliche, devil's advocate. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 708 Registered: 04-2005 |
I know that that is what the Pilgrims did next. They were among the least tolerant people around. I was just pointing out the original purpose of coming here. We were also the clearing house for the Hugonots, the Catholics and many other religions over the years, and every one of them thinks that there viewpoint is the correct one. That is one of the purposes of our Constitution. To keep one religion from becoming the 'right' one. At least that's my take on it. I appreciate that you're playing devil's advocate. |
