 
Amgasper01
Member
Username: Amgasper01
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:38 pm: |    |
First of all, thanks to Dds for answering my question. Secondly, thanks to Gnome for dedicating a classic DY photoshop in my honor!
I was always under the impression that public spaces such as parks were created to invite people to unite, whether it be for a Hash Bash, which was an organized event complete with a city permit, or an informal gathering of friends and neighbors around a BBQ. Isn't that the ultimate definition of a sense of community? That's something I feel very strongly about as a person who dreamed of being a resident of Downtown Detroit since I was a child.
Furthermore, I have too much respect for my neighborhood to make a mess. "Leave only your footprints" was a rule put in place before the flame even hit the coals. Also, we made more than enough hot dogs to share with the requests from homeless people we no doubt had to endure throughout the afternoon.
I'm sorry some may find it "classless" or "tacky" but you're free to join us the next time you see a grill fired up in GCP and I'm sure you'll at least find it "enjoyable!" |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 303
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 2:21 am: | |
How the hell can cooking on a grill be classless?
Maybe the classy expect to always be "served" with the cooks in the back. That way they dont have to look at the "classless" |
1953
Member
Username: 1953
Post Number: 1570
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 7:17 am: | |
There's nothing as pleasant as billowing charcoal smoke in the central business district.
If you can't see why its classless, you must not have class (yes, it appears to be a circular argument...but is it really????). |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 607
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 7:27 am: | |
quote:but you're free to join us the next time you see a grill fired up in GCP
In other words, "I don't care about the law."
This is the attitude that keeps Detroit right where it is, be it embraced by the richest corporate exec or the crackhead taking a dump in the alley. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12719
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 8:30 am: | |
No, Dds, we covered that earlier...they burn the fire earlier, then they'll drag the thing down to the park with hot coals.
No fire, no crime. You read the statute.
Simply finding the loopholes, the AMERICAN way.
Tell me the last time you drove the speed limit, and then we'll listen to your preaching laws! |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1178
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 8:37 am: | |
Amgas, gosh guy, I'm just baffled by you altogether. You come here and ask a question about whether it is legal or not to cookout in GCP.
You have been given the statute. You have been shown a number of reasons why it is not a good idea to use GCP as your personal BBQ pit.
In the face of overwhelming evidence and opinion, you promise to keep doing whatever you please, whenever the mood strikes you.
Why ask in the first place?
Your actions are so selfish, yet you protest "I only leave footprints" ... but how about the next guy that rolls in from Warrendale fires the charcoal but leaves it in the gutter to cool off. He's just following your example.
We are all examples to one another. Each of us. We hold each other to standards of respect.
quote:... an informal gathering of friends and neighbors around a BBQ. Isn't that the ultimate definition of a sense of community?
The definition of community is being respectful of other people. That means a long list of things you shouldn't do.
Just because you think you're special doesn't make it so.
If your mother didn't tell you that, I will. |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 608
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:02 am: | |
quote:No fire, no crime. You read the statute.
I wouldn't expect your meager tiny mind to understand quality of life issues, Gannon. |
Sknutson
Member
Username: Sknutson
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:21 am: | |
One shouldn't grill on one's front porch? What comes next -
telling everyone to get the washing machine off the porch as well???? |
Toolbox
Member
Username: Toolbox
Post Number: 1134
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:21 am: | |
quote:DV
There isn't any other green space - and people, even in high-rises, need green space and those new lofts have none of their own on property. Maybe we need to rethink a little what the park is for as when it was built it was all offices - now, the majority of actual life there is residential.
If you move into a loft don't expect all the same privileges of living in a house with a yard.
(Message edited by toolbox on May 08, 2008) |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12722
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:31 am: | |
Ooh, good one, Dds.
Wouldn't quality of life be a HEART issue?
Toolbox, most of us living in lofts got there to get away from the 'priviledge' of watering, feeding, then mowing down grass...I've never, ever understood that ritual! heh |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 609
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:00 am: | |
quote:Wouldn't quality of life be a HEART issue?
Not if it involves breaking a law that is in no way, shape or form unjust.
quote:most of us living in lofts got there to get away from the 'priviledge'...
Just because you chose to get away from the privilege doesn't give you the right to do as you please. You're thinking like a corrupt corporate executive. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12726
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:36 am: | |
So you're saying you NEVER break the speed limit and have not broken any other laws, ever?!
Then you can go around shoving each and every little bullshit law down everyone else's throats.
The American way IS to seek the loopholes in excessive laws, something I abhor, but it is fun to play-exercise. I abhor the excessive laws and more laws, because they give license to people to go around judging people on things which matter not in the grand scheme of things...those very same people will usually willingly break the laws they seem to think don't fit them, or they find the loopholes to allow their behavior.
If judges, attorneys, police officers, governmental employees including mayors, governors, presidents all do it, I figure I can too. Yes, that is part of the problem in our country, not just our city.
I never, ever said getting away from that puzzling behavior gave anyone license to do anything...you, in your bitterness and anger, are putting words into my mouth.
I was merely joking with a fellow who hasn't posted here much lately but used to be a regular...commmenting upon HIS post.
Cheers |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 610
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 12:00 pm: | |
quote:I never, ever said getting away from that puzzling behavior gave anyone license to do anything...you, in your bitterness and anger, are putting words into my mouth.
Oh. Sorry. I guess you were just talking about lawns, then. Never mind.
By the way, maybe you should quit projecting your bitterness and anger onto me. The meager tiny minds bit is your schtick. You should be able to handle it being tossed back at you without crying foul.
Your dimestore philosophy mumbo-jumbo doesn't work by just falling back on "So you're saying you NEVER break the speed limit and have not broken any other laws, ever?" That's a cop-out argument and you know it to be one. Every freshman who's ever taken Philosophy 100, or senior in high school who's taken Speech, for that matter, knows that stance doesn't hold water. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12730
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 4:51 pm: | |
I didn't cry foul, I said 'good one'. Which it was. I'm wondering now how you missed that simple phrase.
Dime stores notwithstanding, YOU'RE the one trying to nail folks on some relatively benign law that many of us realize should be amended...and/or some space created specifically for this purpose.
SOME of us learned and grew on this thread, you may have missed that...but I'm not surprised.
I realized that some parks are more ornamental than useful, and others learned that perhaps since the actions weren't offensive...merely misplaced...that we could make things better overall for everyone.
Only the guy who started the thread desired to continue his behavior, which is actually pretty funny to me.
YOU wanted to hammer people...hence MY illumination of your anger and wanton desire to pick fights over nothing at all...again something that is quite common in this age.
There is NOTHING invalid about showing someone that if they don't follow all the laws, they simply cannot ever wave any others in someone's face as judgement. I believe the same exists with police officers and others in enforcement and justice who choose which laws they will follow and when...they are hypocrites when they do so.
I break a few laws which I disagree with all the time, and will not be found waving any of them in anyone else's face in judgement, but I will call another out on their lack of logic and continuity.
I wish you the best, although I believe if you saw it you might not recognize it.
Cheers! |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 181
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 5:20 pm: | |
Meager tiny minds is only one of Gannon's many shticks.
Well-said Dds. Despite all of the above bluster from Gannon he seems to truly appreciate your unbridled criticisms and harsh commentary - at least that's what he said yesterday over on Connect. He considers it therapy.
It's not rocket science, people. You wanna picnic ? Check the local ordinances for park usage and plan accordingly. For example if your priority on a given day is to grill, go to a location that allows grilling. And so on...
D-u-u-uh |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12734
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 5:33 pm: | |
Wondering where you've been, my old friend. Gosh, I've missed you. Please don't be such a stranger.
What you say is true and correct. Glad you read EVERY word I post, also, it is good to know I still capture your full attention.
Now, duh, where are those places within the CBD for all of our NEW loft residents? THAT is the only real and true positive direction for this discussion, from what I perceive. Wow, and some even agree with me.
Cheers! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6790
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 6:15 pm: | |
Aw common you guys, quit grilling each other!
It's bad enough you guys are raking each other over the coals, but then Raggedclaws steps in and adds fuel to the fire...
Quit flaming each other... you guys have too much at steak in this forum to be making a meal out of a morsel... now go to your corners until you simmer down... and no more flare-ups!
 |
Mackenzie68
Member
Username: Mackenzie68
Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 7:45 pm: | |
Gistok is being a wet blanket. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 293
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 9:40 pm: | |
I thought Sunday picnics, and office workers eating on Lunch brakes were meant for ornamental parks?
Is it really just there to look pretty? It never will if it's only real use is as place for homeless people to sleep. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1182
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 3:46 am: | |
Sean, you might want to re-read the comments. The discussion is about cooking. It's about lighting fires. Open flame.
Not eating. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 299
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 4:57 am: | |
Same thing. Besides, not all grills are open flame, as I mentioned above.
The discussion also seems to be about Grand Circus Park being used for aesthetics only. Seriously, read above. That was being talked about too! |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 5:38 am: | |
Do you know a lot of people that are going to run an extension cord from their apartment in the Kales building? HUH? Where do you get these ideas? Do you just think things up and that makes them true?
Think man think. Eating and cooking are not the same. Parsing the conversation down to food and then which type of food is acceptable is ... Seanian. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 301
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 6:50 am: | |
I mentioned alternatives to charcoal in my above posts. Do you really think I am making up flameless propane and electric portable grills? They also make electric portable air conditioners. Next time you're at a sporting good store, look at some of the crazy new stuff they have.
I just don't see grilling as much different than making a cold sandwich at a picnic. Why are you splitting hairs? What difference do you see? Please explain, because it sounds kind of bizarre to me. What makes one more classy than the other? It's the same thing.
Also, what does "Seanian" mean? You're trying to insult me, right? |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 7:36 am: | |
"Seanian" would only be an insult if you consider Sean an idiot. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12740
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:52 am: | |
When there are laws, those who think LAWS are the solution will do everything they can to insure EVERYONE behaves according to the way THEY think.
It is mere human nature.
Laws and more laws are not the answer.
Sean, you have to look at why you want so badly for there to be a loophole...I spent some time with that myself after reading our not-so-subtle poster's opposing comments. (and being so beautifully therapied)
What do you have against ornamental parks? Why are you against finding an acceptable compromise?
The law was obviously written in RESPONSE to some series of problems, to guard against future bad and possibly dangerous behavior. I'd bet if we looked into it, since the language is against fireworks and guns and such, that the lawmakers simply wanted to contain behavior that endangers others.
You see this as not endangering anyone, as do I. As obviously do others. That is our view of this law, it is not directly applied to our particular circumstance, and that MAY be correct...but it may also be quite wrong.
Others see it as opportunity to enforce laws wantonly to cause others to submit to their will...even if that is for a basically decent cause in this case, having ornamental parks that beautify our city without the potential of selfish folk leaving their trash behind or worse.
Why fight about it and make perfectly nice people call you an idiot? (looking deeply into the mirror)
Let's find a way to get along, THEN we can gang up on Amgasper01 when he chooses to just do as he pleases. (heh)
Cheers |
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2706
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
I'm trying to picture someone grilling in Philadelphia's Rittenhouse Square, or Boston's Public Garden.
Nope, can't do it. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 314
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 5:44 am: | |
Gannon, that may not be entirely accurate. I took this program called True Colors some years back that is supposed to "help you find yourself". It is an interesting concept, and one that helped me understand the people in the world around me that much better. Basically four categories representing a personality type are assigned to a color.
From Wikipedia;
Orange represents energy, consuming physiological potency, power, and strength. Orange is the expression of vital force, of nervous and glandular activity. Thus, it has the meaning of desire and all forms of appetite and craving. Those with Orange as a Primary Color feel the will to achieve results, to win, to be successful. They desire all things that offer intense living and full experience. Orange generates an impulse toward active doing: sport, struggle, competition and enterprising productivity. In temporal terms, Orange is the present. Orange thrives on adventure and appreciates spontaneity.
Gold is the body's natural perceptions. It represents a need to be responsible, to fulfill duties and obligations, to organize and structure our life and that of others. Those with Gold as a Primary Color value being practical and sensible. They believe that people should earn their way in life through work and service to others. Gold reflects a need to belong through carrying a share of the load in all areas of living. It represents stability, maintenance of the culture and the organization, efficiency, and dependability. It embraces the concepts of home and family with fierce loyalty and faithfulness.
Green expresses itself psychologically as human will in operation: as persistence and determination. Green is an expression of firmness and consistency. Its strength can lead to a resistance to change if it is not proven that the change will work or is warranted. Those with Green as a Primary Color value their intellect and capabilities above all else. Comfort in these areas creates a sense of personal security and self-esteem. Green characteristics seek to increase the certainty of their own values through being assertive and requiring differences from others in intellectual areas. They are rarely settled in their countenance, since they depend upon information rather than feelings to create a sense of well-being. Green expresses the grounding of theory and data in its practical applications and creative constructs.
Blue represents calm. Contemplation of this color pacifies the central nervous system. It creates physiological tranquility and psychological contentment. Those with Blue as a Primary Color value balance and harmony. They prefer lives free from tension... settled, united, and secure. Blue represents loyalty and a sense of belonging, and yet, when friends are involved, a vulnerability. Blue corresponds to depth in feeling and a relaxed sensitivity. It is characterized by empathy, aesthetic experiences, and reflective awareness.
This is of course all extremes. Think of it more as a scale. True extremes do exist, but a rare. Most are somewhere in between, or have a little orange and a ton of green. The "creatives" (entrepreneurs, coaches, political leaders, generals, etc.) tend to have strong points too, but are somehow able to pick and choose views from the colors. They still have a primary sort of color that they are most comfortable in.
It's weird. It's almost like you have to have a mix of all (with equal power) to actually make a ship sail. I think creatives often act as the captain who does nothing but organize and help the groups work together. It's like some bizarre machine or single body working in unison. On bigger "ships" it would be wise to have as much diversity as possible.
If the imbalance is to great, then the ship will sink. To many Blues are to emotional and people oriented. To many Oranges are reckless and take to large of risks. To many greens and you are overly logical and resistance to change. Finally, the one that is relevant here. To many golds and you are to organized and controlling.
Everyone in the group is equally important. Without a good team, creatives are useless. However, without creatives, the colors usually can't work together. It also doesn't seem to work unless the creative isn't being honest to the needs of the group. If the ship ends up a Titanic, then the creatives are the ones that would make sure everyone else had their life boats. Those two things can be considered the secrets to success. Most creatives fail because they either are selfishly only out for themselves or because they haven't assembled a proper team. Like the song says, "We Were Dead Before The Ship Even Sank".
What your calling people out on may be a natural occurrence that has a place. |
Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores
Post Number: 85
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 8:33 am: | |
I vividly recall this one particular episode of Spencer and Mongolia where it was the 4th of July weekend and Spencer was grilling kielbasa out in front of their trailer.
Mongolia was inside whopping up a salad.
Well, as Spencer waited for the kishka's to turn that succulent golden-brown, he lit off a pack of Black Cat firecrackers. He was having a big ol' time!
"Hey Mongolia! Hurry up with that salad! The kielbasa's are almost ready! Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, this is GREAT!"
Yes, it was all fun and games until a fireman showed up carrying an extinguisher. The fireman, without saying a single word, proceeded to spray the grill with the CO2, thereby extinguishing the coals, making the kielbasee's unedible, and in effect "raining on Spencer's parade".
Spencer reacts as such - "Heyyyyy maaaaaan.... whaddya think you're doin'?"
Parma firefighter - "Hey... buddy.... no open fires in the city limits."
Crash, boom, bang, the polka music fires up, and the episode comes to an abrupt ending.
Hmmm. |
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