 
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 228
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 8:00 am: |    |
Is it difficult being a pioneer in a city of 850,000? |
Detroiterbychoice
Member
Username: Detroiterbychoice
Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 8:36 am: | |
I was in the same predicament as you, and i took the plunge head first. But now I know the cost of Living in detroit is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP. It just has to be done properly. I have a 275000 House, and my property taxes per year for the next 15 years are $500. I got a 30 year fixed mortgage at 5%, and I am getting a lot more for my dollar here in the city. I spend about $30 a week on food from eastern market and have to through a lot of it away because it lasts so long. Heating in the winter is about $200-$250, which is what you pay in the burbs, and in the summer, it stays fairly cool so I just open all the windows and the bill is about $20. You just have to know where to look.
Youre best bet is to look into an NEZ property. Its dirt cheap. There are tons of them, and since no one is buying houses you can have your pick of any one that you want. Contact Margaret Palmer. She deals specifically with Detroit Real Estate and even owns in the city. Great Lady.
http://www.margaretpalmer.com/ home.asp |
Rugbyman
Member
Username: Rugbyman
Post Number: 328
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 9:00 am: | |
How in the hell did you swing a $500 per year tax burden on a $275,000 house? I thought the millage rate in the NEZ is around 45. |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 165
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 9:37 am: | |
Rid0617,
Still consider coming home!
Property Taxes:
Many neighborhoods in Detroit are designated Neighborhood Enterprise Zones. The houses in these neighborhoods have reduced property taxes of 33% up to 12 years.
The designated neighborhoods are listed in the following link:
http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/De partments/Finance/AssessmentDi vision/NeighborhoodEnterpriseZ oneHomesteadDistricts/tabid/15 31/Default.aspx
MICHIGAN HISTORIC TAX CREDITS:
If your house is in a locally designated historic district, you can earn a 25% state income tax credit for rehabilitation costs.
http://www.michigan.gov/docume nts/hal_mhc_shpo_taxincen_5215 4_7.pdf
Here are 3 houses in the locally designated historic district and NEZ-designated Russell Woods-Sullivan area:
As far as I know, this house has NOT been stripped and just needs updating and plaster repair.
http://www.realestateone.com/c ontent/PropertyDetail.asp?list ingNumber=e28033907
This house has been on the market forever.
http://www.realestateone.com/c ontent/PropertyDetail.asp?list ingNumber=e28005115
This house has been stripped of radiators, antique doorknobs, and copper, but has fine architectural details, and a nice sized backyard for that neighborhood. Also, it overlooks a well-maintained park.
http://www.realestateone.com/c ontent/PropertyDetail.asp?list ingNumber=e28031172
This Boston-Edison district house has low taxes.
http://www.realestateone.com/c ontent/PropertyDetail.asp?list ingNumber=e27216164
This La Salle Gardens house is NEZ-designated and historic district designated.
http://www.realestateone.com/c ontent/PropertyDetail.asp?list ingNumber=e28073447 |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 985
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 10:13 am: | |
You can get a lot of deals on stripped houses. Lots of fixer uppers. |
Magnasco
Member
Username: Magnasco
Post Number: 257
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 2:39 pm: | |
The funny part is listening to the selling points. When you have to use lines like "the home hasn't been stripped" yet, you may be losing the battle here. You may just not have enough good folks to turn this thing around. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 93
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 2:28 am: | |
That is a shame it has to be phrased that way. Instead of selling points being neighborhoods, schools, shopping the main one is crime and has it been stripped. We were seriously interested in the LaSalle Gardens home after hearing about the tax breaks. |
Mackcreative
Member
Username: Mackcreative
Post Number: 229
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 7:57 am: | |
I think it was stated that way because you wouldn't expect a house in good repair to be $24,000.
Also, lots of realtors know nothing about the neighborhoods in Detroit and aren't interested in learning. The home next to ours was foreclosed and you wouldn't believe some of the veiled racial sentiments from the realtors that I met over there. The final listing said "not too bad of a neighborhood." |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 75
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 11:10 am: | |
Masterblaster,
I appreciate your efforts as a booster of Detroit's preservation and rebirth! What are the reasons that YOU think these houses are not selling?
(Please don't take this as confrontational or sarcastic. I am actually interested in knowing!) |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 166
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 3:46 pm: | |
There is little demand to live in the historic neighborhoods (or any neighborhoods) outside of the Grand Boulevard Loop, that are not called Palmer Woods or Rosedale Park. The crime, bad economy, and bad schools are driving the black middle class away and discouraging others from moving to these 'hoods. |
Magnasco
Member
Username: Magnasco
Post Number: 258
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 7:11 pm: | |
A couple of reasons might be that many of the houses are nearing the end of their useful life, and/or are surrounding by houses that are near the end of their useful life, and/or are costing 500+ in the winter to heat.
At a time when what is needed are incentives for people to invest in these houses and take care of them, the taxes and schools are pushing people away. Guess who wants a 3 and 4 or 5 bedroom, 2500-4000 square foot house? Someone with Kids! And the neighborhood NEZ is a start, but what about the other 70+% of the city? And is a 20% cut in a $6000 tax bill really enough?
We really have a problem with a crumbling infrastructure of housing that isn't going to make it much longer. Especially when the repairs cost what they do, i.e. new roofs, windows, electric and plumbing. Folks just aren't going to fork over that kind of money to not see a return on it. |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 8:10 pm: | |
Thank you M & M, I think the reasons you gave are the very reasons Rid0617 should NOT be moving here.
And even if someone homeschools, would they really want their kids playing with those who are receiving a poor education? |
Rugbyman
Member
Username: Rugbyman
Post Number: 330
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:42 pm: | |
Sure ain't enough, Magnasco. Love to do it, but paying 1/2 that in Berkley AND not having an overwhelming insurance burden makes it kind of a no-brainer. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 97
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 2:33 am: | |
"And even if someone homeschools, would they really want their kids playing with those who are receiving a poor education?"
That's exactly why we decided to homeschool. South Carolina public schools are 47th for high school completion and 49th SAT scores. Kids here are real idiots and have no common sense anymore. Detroit kids might be a step up for her. Retroit still reading your advise very closely. |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 167
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 8:40 am: | |
I don't like Magnasco and Retroit's discouraging comments AT ALL!
Magnasco, how could you say that these houses are nearing the end of their useful lives? ARE YOU CRAZY!!
The 2nd Russell Woods-Sullivan house and the La Salle Gardens house that I posted earlier are of the classic Colonial Revival Architecture, which is an architecture derived from the Federal and Georgian residential architecture that thrived in the 18th and 19th century. Many of those structures still exists in New England and Eastern Seaboard cities like Philadelphia. Should they all be torn down because they are not energy efficient?
The 3rd Russell Woods house that I posted (which is no longer available) is an offshoot of the English Tudor architecture, which began in the 1400's. Many of these original structures still exist today! Should they all be torn down because of high heating bills?
These houses may need updated electrical and plumbing but they are FAR from obselete.
The reasons why those older structures still exist today is because 1. they were well-built, and 2. they were taken care of.
These old houses may have suffered from neglect, but they are FAR from unsalvageable. It's not like they are sagging or the bricks are falling off them. They just need a new kitchen, plumbing fixtures, paint, and maybe some radiators. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 780
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:02 am: | |
The guy who says "kids here are real idiots and have no common sense" cannot spell ADVICE? Careful where you're tossing those stones, Officer Friendly. |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 168
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:15 am: | |
To Rugbyman, Magnasco, and Retroit. I am assuming that you do not live in Detroit. If my assumption is wrong I apologize.
Just a suggestion:
Do not discourage someone from moving to Detroit. It is a great thing that you are informing Rid0617 of all of the factors that he needs to weigh when making a big decision like this (such as taxes, insurance, educational system, etc)
It is people like Rid0617 who will ultimately make Detroit a better place. That even though Detroit has many, many faults that this man and his family is willing to give this lowly city a try.
Magnasco stated:
"You may just not have enough good folks to turn this thing around."
How many decades have the people who left Detroit been saying that! I bet the number of "good folks" that were residents in the city in 1960's is far greater than the number of "good folks" still left today!
What I'm trying to say is that SOMEONE HAS TO FINALLY TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE STATE OF DETROIT.
If I left the city today, and moved to the suburbs, then you could say that I no longer have any responsibility for the state of the city, that its the responsibility of "those people" who still live "down there". But when I lived in the city, I didn't do anything to stop the decline or to improve things (like work for lower property taxes), so the responsibility of the city's decline is still ON ME, even though I've left. |
Magnasco
Member
Username: Magnasco
Post Number: 259
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 1:13 pm: | |
You said it nicely, so I won't take it as an attack, but I do live in the city. You could say that I am trapped in the city at the moment because I bought at the end of 2003 when the market was high and my property has declined in value since then, which is a national problem, not just a Detroit one. In fact, I own two properties at the moment, one of which is rented out because we couldn't sell it when we bought the house.
I would like to find a solution and I appreciate your heart-felt words Masterblaster. And my comments also come from genuine concern, not just anger or spite.
I said the houses are at the end of their USEFUL life and you compared that to obsolete. Maybe I am splitting hairs, but I think there may be a difference. My point is that the housing inventory is aging to a point where it costs more to fix them up than to just leave them. Maybe that is obsolete too. 
You mention some great houses which might be preserved for their historical or architectural value, but what about the other hundreds of thousands of homes in the city?
It would be great if there was such an interest in the city that people would dump $50,000 to $100,000 into a house to fix it up and keep it, but there needs to be some things in place for that to happen. Very few people are just going to do it because the house was cheap to begin with. There has to be a prospect of some future value. And with no commitment to turning the schools around, and with property taxes and insurance making living in the city cost more than elsewhere, folks just aren't going to choose it.
There is also a serious budget crisis in the city right now where we have been running deficit spending and covering it up by shifting some numbers around. The budget short-fall is getting bigger each year and it is only going to get worse with all of the foreclosures cutting into an already pathetically low tax base.
And it may seem like we are trying to talk people out of making the decision to move to the City, but we are really trying to talk about the issues, it's just that no one wants to deal with those right now. Let's just talk about the good things. Well we can do that, and if that's all we want to do then folks should enjoy the party on the Titanic while they can. |
Rugbyman
Member
Username: Rugbyman
Post Number: 332
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 3:25 pm: | |
Unlike Magnasco, Masterblaster, I'm not taking your statement so benignly. I don't live in the city. I don't think I was trying to discourage anyone from doing anything. The "well, you don't live in the city, you don't have any room to talk" line is awfully damn tired. This is a conversation about the decision Rid apparently already made ["As much as I hate to say this we have put moving to Detroit on the far back burner."- First line in the thread.]. Like Rid, my wife and I were also trying very hard to make the numbers work to justify making a move to the city and just couldn't put it together.
If you construe my pointing out the fact that making the move into the city from the relatively inexpensive suburbs will more than likely require a hefty cost increase to keep the same standard of living as actively discouraging others from making the move, I'm very sorry for your error. I will not, however, apologize for agreeing with a contention the thread's author advanced, nor for living in the suburbs and spending the lion's share of my days (and, mind you, disposable income) in the city.
Frankly I'm a little surprised you'd actually admonish someone for stating facts about what's involved in making the move to the city. Would you rather someone make the decision blind? |
Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster
Post Number: 169
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 6:50 pm: | |
You make very valid points Mr. Rugbyman.
You have to make the best decision for your family.
However,
I would think that the relatively cheap cost of housing would outweigh the increase in insurance and taxes, though. I don't know your situation. If you are including private school tuition cost for your child, then I could see how it wouldn't make financial sense.
What we as Detroit residents have to do is try to make this city a more inviting and attractive place to live; we need to fight for what the suburbs already have to offer - safe streets, good schools, community pride, responsive police and fire, less burdensome taxes.
Those aforementioned attributes have been on the decline for 50+ years and nobody has been able to slow the decline. We need more residents who love the community and who will make it better.
If Detroit is not up to your standards, then (if you are able) move here, and work with other like-minded people in the city to improve the quality of life until it is up to your standards. Take the responsibility upon yourself if you care enough about this place. If you don't care enough about the city to that extent, and if you have other things that occupy your time and money (like family,career,etc), then BE QUIET. |
Rugbyman
Member
Username: Rugbyman
Post Number: 333
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 7:48 pm: | |
"If you have the means to live in the city but don't, you shouldn't have anything to say." Awfully enlightened thinking, champ. Roll that welcome mat out. |
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 636
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:38 pm: | |
Said it before and will say it again, in my downtown neighborhood,, (Lafayette Park) I own a small co-op (810 sq.feet),, high in the sky (24th floor), am totally safe, awesome view, great place, close to everything downtown and have access to few things many people could only hope for ( am looking into a lit Comerica Park Ballgame) ,, all for 670.00/mth including taxes after deducting my tax refund for my unit (about 75.00mnth).... I still scratch my head when reading about no places to live in the city for downright cheap payments.. Look at 1300 Lafayette.. Best buy out there.. and totally safe for you and your car. Everything including cable is included except for electricity of about 20.00mnth. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 307
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 12:00 am: | |
Rid0617,
I hope you continue to (at least occasionally) check back on some of those issues that helped you make your decision. Contrary to what some say here, there are many very talented people working very hard to fix many of those problems.
If you ever actually see changes happening, well that is (of course) how good investments are often made. I'm not necessarily implying that anything is actually happening. All I'm really saying is that Detroit (and many other depressed markets) are worth keeping an eye on. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 639
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 1:08 am: | |
quote:And even if someone homeschools, would they really want their kids playing with those who are receiving a poor education? Never confuse education with intelligence. Intelligence and/or the lack thereof does not start or end in school. There are smart kids and dumb kids everywhere, and my hypothetical kid spending time with them will not make him/her any smarter or dumber. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 99
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 1:25 am: | |
Thanks Sean. Here is why I think Detroit physically won't be much different than what we have here. The nearest street lights are 7 miles away, you rely on motion detector spotlights. Nearest gas station is 5 miles away, nearest grocery store is 7 miles. EMS takes 15-20 minutes to respond even on a heart attack call because in SC it's volunteer. Only law enforcement is an understaffed Sheriffs Dept with response that will average 30-45 minutes. Emergency response is approximately 10-15 minutes. My wife travels 12 miles to her job. That is why I don't see much different between here and there. What Detroiters are complaining about in terms of convenience is every day life where we currently live.
These are our current monthly expenses rounded up: house payment $479.00, home insurance and taxes $129.00, light bill fixed monthly payment $88, heating bill so far this year $402.00, water bill $20 average, no sewer have septic tank, phone bill $42 a month no long distance.
So, the thoughts were if we could eliminate the house payment the higher costs would equal the current house payment but the benefit would be a paid for home we couldn't be tossed out of if the economy went in the dumper even more.
Having to do some do it yourself work on a house is not a problem as I'm disabled (plenty of time) and my inheritance (not that large) would pay for it. The big thing right now is trying to see how much swapping one expense for another would actually save us on a monthly basis.
Not worried about the house being an investment or re-selling. The goal is for my wife to never have to make a house payment after I pass and after she passes who cares honestly. We love the old 2 story houses from the 20s & 30s and this also would be a way to get one. Here they are either torn down or become law offices and are ridiculously expensive.
We have just about decided as long as we sit down there we are going to constantly be back and forth on the issue. Might just take Bush's bribery check to make a trip up there. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 309
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 2:51 am: | |
No one really discussed the electrical rates. Why is it so much more expensive up here? |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 100
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 3:19 am: | |
From what I've been told it's 2 things. First we receive the majority of our power generation though nuclear. The biggest problem is electric providers are deregulated in Michigan. Georgia pulled the same brainiac idea on natural gas. Within 5 months gas rates went through the roof. Because there were so many gas companies they were being charged for delivery, pipe maintenance, etc.
I went to Detroit Edison and found the same thing. They charge a monthly customer charge, an electric delivery charge then charge for the actual usage.
Here we pay none of that. Our bill consists of $6.16 a month plus 7.9744 cents per kwh used. Now my home is total electric except for heat which is natural gas. I'm on what's called budget billing which means I pay a flat amount per month (currently $88) based on last years bills. It does bite when you have fall & winter bills that normally would be $40-$50 a month but your paying $88. I checked my usage with Detroit Edison and my normal summer air conditioning bill which runs around $130 would be almost $200 with Detroit Edison.
Benefit of Michigan is they do provide low income heating assistance. South Carolina does not. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2495
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 3:18 pm: | |
"Your reasons for wanting to move to Detroit seem pretty silly."
Not everyone chooses where to lived based on where the economy is the best. Rather, some choose based on the value or saving that they could get by living in a certain area. Right now, Detroit is a bargain, relatively speaking. A retired person on a fixed income might consider an area that is cheaper to live in, for example. However, I would only move back there if I could get a similar job with similar pay. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 107
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 9:15 pm: | |
We're a case of poor most of the marriage equals poor the rest of our lives. So, we can live poor here with a mortgage or live poor up there with a paid for home. |
Lodgedodger
Member
Username: Lodgedodger
Post Number: 19
Registered: 05-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 5:48 pm: | |
Some people wish to live in Detroit because, in their hearts, it is home.
I've been looking for a home in Detroit for three years. |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 126
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2008 - 8:59 pm: | |
Craig said: "The guy who says "kids here are real idiots and have no common sense" cannot spell ADVICE? Careful where you're tossing those stones, Officer Friendly."
Well, lets put it this way. Officer friendly has a degree in criminal justice. But a dose of agent orange while spending 12 months in that bright spot called SE Asia has caused 4 heart attacks, a triple bypass, insulin diabetic, a blood clot disolved out of my brain which killed some brain tissue and other problems. I have also lost the ability to add and subtract due to nurological problems. Mis-spelling words is the least of my problems. I'm proud that I can even speak them. But the grace of God and 46 pills a day keeps me motivated enough to want to make this move. I'm even more fun to listen to. I swap words without even knowing it.
Even with my disabilities I am smarter than what is coming out of our local schools. Thank you for your advise. No offense was taken, just thought I would explain why I can't spell words. At least my common sense still works unlike the kids down here.
(Message edited by rid0617 on May 17, 2008) |
Grumpyoldlady
Member
Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 92
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 12:10 am: | |
Anyone give me an idea what 1400 kwh of electricity would cost in Detroit? |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 131
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:02 am: | |
Figured this off the Detroit Edison page
POWER SUPPLY CHARGES
17kwh @ 4.531 cents .77
1383kwh @ 5.941 cents 81.59
DELIVERY CHARGES
1400kwh @ 4.284 cents 59.92
POWER SUPPLY SURCHARGE
1400kwh @ 1.0964 cents 15.35
DELIVERY SURCHARGE
1400kwh @ 0.5911 8.27
TOTAL BILL $165.90
This does not include Detroit utility tax, residential Michigan tax, sales tax or any possible base charge they might add on.
(Message edited by rid0617 on May 19, 2008) |
Rid0617
Member
Username: Rid0617
Post Number: 132
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:08 am: | |
Now here would be that same 1400kwh using my current which is Duke Power.
1st 1000kwh used per month @ 6.9150 69.15
Next 400 kwh used @ 8.3319 33.32
Base facilities charge 6.16
TOTAL BILL $108.63 |
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