  Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 186 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2008804250454 <(did I do that right) Sheriff's from Wayne, Oakland, and Macomb county got a trip to Columbia to see the drug war up close on the other side of the boarder. Paid for by the State Dept. What could they possibly have learned (other than their fighting a loosing battle) down there that would or could be useful up here. If I didnt print the link correctly, the article is in todays Free Press 5B. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2217 Registered: 07-2004 |
Plan Colombia was thinly disguised as a plan to eradicate drugs. It was always more about propping up Colombia's brutal, right-wing paramilitary forces by giving them the money to buy U.S. munitions and warships. Hell, statistics consistently show that U.S. clients states are much more likely to have increased drug trafficking. This is just another state department press release intended to help prop up America's longest-running failed war. | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 33 Registered: 02-2008 |
What do you give a society of idiots with too much money and free time on their hands? Drugs! And then you hire a bunch of people to try to stop the idiots from using the drugs. you couldn't make this crap up. | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 187 Registered: 10-2003 |
Detroitnerd, Im embarrased to say I never saw it that way but makes perfect sense. I was in Peru a few years back and was trying to make convo. with some of the elderly locals about FARC and other groups, They got pissed, they definately didnt want to talk to the gringos about that mess. I still dont have a grasp on it all. (I was talking through a friend who interpreted) The drug war just makes me sick. What the hell. Im gonna tell a story about the coca eradication in Peru, real short. While taking a bus from Cusco to Lake Titticacca, about 150 miles as the crow flies I want to say, but took 13 hours through the curving beautiful mountains. During the trip we were often stopped and boarded by the polica. They would come on with straight thin wooden sticks. They would carefully poke them into the overhead luggage racks. going up and down poking bags and baskets, they always stopped at least a few times, reached into the stuffed racks and would pull out small and large bags of coca leaf. They just took it off the bus and we were on our way. Id bet I know where the coca finally wound up. The farmers are so goddamn poor, they rely on the coca leaf, as they have for thousands of years, now the Gringos say they cant grow that anymore, grow something else. Then the millions or billions being hauled in by the big cartels, then the small smugglers being offered $3000 to swallow a key of coke or smack only to get busted in Miami and then housed in an American prison for 30 years at $35,000 a year. Of course the prison system is a booming industry. Housing non violent offenders is huge business here in the land of the free. UGGGGHHHH. Now Im all f****** worked up, think Ill go take a hit o' dat dumbass. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 5212 Registered: 12-2005 |
Django, I'm all ears when there are first-hand reports. From today's Detroit News: Mexican violence spills into U.S. quote: | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 188 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jimaz, Interesting link, Its sucks that that kind of crap goes on all the time these days. The only way to stop it would be regulation/legalization. The American ppl have been so filled with "drugs are bad" stories they believe the only option is to incarcerate anyone who even wants to get high. Our drug war has inflicted unreasonable sentences on ppl around the world. Be it the poor farmers of Kentucky, or Jamaica, growing herb. Poor farmers in Burma,Laos, or India growing poppies. Poor farmers in any given country in South America growing coca leaves. We give them the reason to grow the shit by way of our American need to get high, then we want to turn around and put them away in a shitty third world prison. Not to mention all the middle men, couriers, pilots, boat captains, distributors, runners, users. If our system worked, all those ppl would be in jail. Its just endless. why is it so hard to see for these idiots like Bill Bennett, or whoever got stuck with the drug czar <sp position that its a hopeless battle that ruins more lives than it saves. Anyway, Thats my soapbox, WANNA GO? | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 117 Registered: 12-2007 |
Detroitnerd, You seem, by what you wrote in your post, to be confused. Colombian paramilitaires do not have warships. The Colombian Navy does, but they are a state military force, not a paramilitary one, and they are not much more right-wing than militaries in general tend to be. This seems like an obvious point to make, but you seem to be conflating the two. This is not even to address the assumptions behind your post, which perhaps I will do later. Django, While I happen to agree with you that the 'war on drugs' has been a failure and that a different approach is needed, it is naive to think that the power that drug cartels have in Mexican border towns is going to go away (or be 'stopped') merely by legalizing drugs. That situation did not arise overnight, it can't be eliminated overnight, and undercutting the power of the cartels will not be simple, easy, fast or cheap. | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2003 |
Otter, I truly believe it would be cheaper than the plan we are currently using. I never said it would be a quick fix. Legalization would take decades to introduce . Youve got to start somewhere. I do know that the current plan isnt working and never will. No the cartels wont just go away, they would most likely move into other. crimes such as kidnapping. If it were actually legal, the huge profit would be gone, criminals would have to move on to something new. The fuc*** of it is that the illegal drug trade MADE these kids , they grew up knowing that they could just handle some dope for a few hours a day and make a living. Or swallow a key of smack before flying to Miami, or Detroit. If it actually was legal and all the profit was gone, the kids dealing are gonna do something to make an easy peso. As for South America, I am not informed on the paramilitary such as FARC, There seems to be several and all I know is when I tried to ask a couple of older gentlemen about their thoughts, my friend doing the interpreting said that its not something we should be asking about. They seemed to be angry we asked. Now that Im thinking of it, legalize it or decrim it or whatever, we would have to release 3/4 of a million hardcore prisoners. All sent away for drug crimes under mandatory sentencing laws. One minute their in criminal college then the next their let loose in every state. Its a huge issue, but storing humans is not the answer. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 147 Registered: 04-2008 |
I used to go to Nuevo Laredo (across the river from Old Laredo, TX.) It was fun, with great market places, fantastic restaurants, lively night clubs and friendly people. Since the drug wars have come, nobody goes there. People are shot on the streets, the town has gone through several mayors, newspaper editors, police - all killed. It has spilled over to Texas, and it is now a no-man's land. You don't see much of this on the news. I understand that Ciudad Juarez, across from El Paso, is having similar problems. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 5012 Registered: 10-2003 |
so is TJ. The war on drugs has proven to be a huge waste of time, money and lives, second only to Iraq. I see only two solutions: a long gradual decriminalization of many, but not all illegal drugs (marijuana should be at the top of the list, but I don't see any reason for legalized meth!•• Or draconian penalties for users to discourage the overwhelming demand...(Thailand seems to have less of a drug problem). Since we already have the world's largest percentage of population in prison (and all those who feel "safe" in this country please raise your hands!), I would argue for decriminalization. | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 190 Registered: 10-2003 |
My hands up, anything but our current solution. the meth question is a tough one, I have to give it some thought. but as far as Thailand, they have as big a problem as we do with Meth and Heroin. They mainly take meth in a pill form, big with the truckers, but heroin is messin up a lot of ppl over there. Ive seen it firsthand. Smugglers abound on Kow Sahn <sp road the big tourist trap for backpackers. Theres this one hotel there, looks like an old French mansion, its a guesthouse, filled with only Nigerians. Their all living there waiting for someone to give them cash and plane ticket so they'll swallow a kilo of dope and deliver it anywhere you want. Ive seen more than one kid there with tracks on his or her arm from shoulder to wrist. These days theres very little opium poppies grown in thailand, most of it comes from Burma, but man its cheap. | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2008 |
Vietnam, Iraq,the war on poverty, war on drugs, and Iraq, If we are studied a thousand years from now, we will be known as the silly ass empire. We went to the moon in 1969, and I think that was the zenith of western civ. We have been killing it ever since. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 5219 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote:The article I posted claims those problems have moved to Puerto Palomas because of the Mexican army's crackdown. It's like trying to get an air bubble out of a waterbed. Applying pressure only causes it to move out of reach. | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 39 Registered: 02-2008 |
Since When do we have to treat adults like children, and I know that you people don't consider 18 yoa to be an adult . when I was 18 I was supporting myself and a wife( I Hear the banjos playing Deliverence), But we we damn sure did not have to have someone provide us with free housing and food. And I never felt like I could get on drugs because I had to FEED myself!•••• | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 40 Registered: 02-2008 |
Vote for me! I'll stop you from eating chocolate sundays! It's bad for you! Trust me! | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 192 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hey Savannah; The prince woke up with a purple hat and said "did you see the balls on that troll" we were silver mudflaps at that moment, hence there was a playdate on that day forth every 3 years. Did that make sense to you?? Jimaz, Ive heard it called the sausage effect, you squeeze one part of the problem and it just goes somewhere else. (Message edited by django on April 27, 2008) | ||
Savannah Member Username: Savannah Post Number: 41 Registered: 02-2008 |
Makes about as much sense as the war on drugs | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 196 Registered: 10-2003 |
OOOOOOOOOOOh K ??? | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 197 Registered: 10-2003 |
Otter I believe when detroitnerd was refering to the "warships" he meant helicopters and planes which are often called "ships" and could be considered "warships" The US has spent billions in coca eradication buying "warships" such as helicopters and other air transport needed to get into the jungles. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2231 Registered: 07-2004 |
My bad: Should have said gunships. Propping up right-wing dictators is good business: Our multinationals and banks get to deal with one brutal dealmaker, and half the money we give them goes to our cronies in defense contracting. The only people who lose are just mere citizens of both countries. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 687 Registered: 04-2006 |
Sending these people to Columbia is a total waste of taxpayer’s money at a time when many Michigan residents are out of work or working jobs that pay $8 dollars an hour while sending government workers on vacations. Why not sent top SEMCOG, SMART and DDOT officials to Paris, London, Tokyo, Curitiba Brazil and Sydney Australia to learn about mass transit systems? Just like the SEMCOG regional planners who can't keep public bus service but study rail service. It's a waste of money to plan rail service if we can't keep basic bus service which is a fact . | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 238 Registered: 10-2003 |
what he said. |
