  Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 1027 Registered: 12-2004 |
http://worldnetdaily.com/index .php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=62431 I thought that as opposed to pasting the whole thing (and its not real long) people could read it, if they wanted and comment on it. Also, feel free to post it, I'm still in Iraq and bandwidth is an issue, so it takes me a long time to do things like that. Currently up in MND-N (Sykes and heading to Morez in a few days) Hope everyone is well!! | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 1322 Registered: 11-2007 |
"When you cross Alter Road, you are immediately struck by the stark difference between neighborhoods. In Grosse Pointe, the old, stately homes are magnificent. The yards are immaculate. There are no loiterers around, no gangs in the streets running wild, no graffiti, no potholes, no security bars on the homes or business, no vacant lots turned into mini junkyards, no drug dealers, no drug addicts, police are visible – none of the ills that have plagued big cities across America for decades." That is one hot button topic there, Gildas. But there already is a rebuttal on that article. I'll let somebody else fire first on that one. And thanks for fulfilling your duty for America, whereas the most verbal complainers here haven't. | ||
Udmphikapbob Member Username: Udmphikapbob Post Number: 563 Registered: 07-2004 |
You mean a small city where rich people have lived for 80 years is doing better than a large one where hundreds of thousands of people of all kinds live? DAMN YOU LIBERALS! | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4673 Registered: 02-2005 |
WOW. Not a bad piece, in that it truthfully portrays Grosse Pointe against some of the generalizations, but it wasn't very hopeful, and I thought the argument over why there is contrast between the two places could have been made on a more sophisticated level and with history in mind some more. And he didn't spell POINTE right. Thanks, Gildas. Good luck. | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 5899 Registered: 02-2007 |
Southfield and Oak Park are upper class? | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 5900 Registered: 02-2007 |
That is one heck of a full-of-bs article. other than the above, i'll pick on the following: "While Grosse Pointe is a white-collar suburb, and Detroit is a blue-collar city, this construction is due more to history and expediency rather than a conspiratorial racial animus against black people." yeah, there was absolutely no discrimination going on against african americans trying to buy into the pointes in the 70s or even the 80s. I remember a number of anti-discrimination actions against them, the bloomfields, birmingham, etc. what was "expedient" about only having white people live there? the neighboring Detroit area had a fairly white population back in the early days as well | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3040 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: http://www.time.com/time/magaz ine/article/0,9171,826273,00.h tml?promoid=googlep | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 1800 Registered: 02-2006 |
Rb336, to be fair, he said "white-collar" and "blue-collar", not "white" and "black". | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 134 Registered: 04-2008 |
I don't understand why the blighted neighborhoods stop at the city line. White collar, blue collar - whatever. I have lived in a lot of places, and have seen well-kept blue collar and white collar neighborhoods. Is it police protection? I lived just north of New York City, and saw the demise of a grand old neighborhood in White Plains. Some nincompoop politicians decided to build a Section 8 housing project on the edge of the neighborhood. Crime went out of control, houses were broken into - robberies and muggings went through the roof (it had been almost non-existant.) People tried selling their houses (a few houses had been torched) to no avail and many ended up just abandoning them. It was heart breaking. Most of the homeowners were older and very attached to the homes they had lived in for so long. It was very similar to what the relatives still living in Detroit were going through. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4676 Registered: 02-2005 |
It generalizes a big city a little too much, indeed, as a couple of you pointed out. Detroit has plenty of strata within it. It's not entirely blue-collar. Also, I can find blue-collar neighborhoods in GP that are actually more expansive then many working class neighborhoods that remain in Detroit. The first six streets of Grosse Pointe Park come to mind. The Chalfonte to Mack neighborhood in GP Farms also has a high percentage of blue-collar or low-level white-collar workers. Shades of gray, shades of gray. Let's try to rely less on generalities. Also, you'd be practically a liar if you omitted the fact that the majority of the neighborhoods in Detroit that are adjacent to GP's northern border are anything other than healthy. Balduck Park neighborhood...the Mack-Moross-Chandler Park Dr. corner...EEV...Marseilles/Univ ersity (though neighboring Radnor is getting rougher)...and much of southern Morningside. It's when you go across Alter from GPP that you see an appreciable difference. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 390 Registered: 10-2005 |
quote: Of course it's a b.s. article...it's from the "WingNut Daily". | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 5904 Registered: 02-2007 |
focusonthed -- "conspiratorial racial animus against black people" | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 130 Registered: 03-2007 |
"And thanks for fulfilling your duty for America, whereas the most verbal complainers here haven't." I'll sign up when somebody convinces me why occupying Iraq is my duty as an American. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 1323 Registered: 11-2007 |
When writing the above post I also wrote "I support the troops and not the mission" but deleted it in deference to somebody who is over there now. Part of my thanks to a military member. Or is he with Halliburton? | ||
Jonnyfive Member Username: Jonnyfive Post Number: 131 Registered: 03-2007 |
"I support the troops and not the mission" That's a fair enough point. I've known several people in the military overseas and have nothing but support for them considering what they've been through. That doesn't mean the 'verbal complainers' are leaving some duty unfulfilled. I really didn't mean to threadjack this, I was just annoyed by that line. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 145 Registered: 03-2008 |
Why does Detroit have a bad reputation while Gross Pointe has a good one? Asking that question is the same as asking "why did everyone leave Detroit". I'm not sure. I'm guessing the reason was the same back in 1960 as it is today. There are probably about 100 reasons. But most of those where hiccups or bruises to most big cities. Even the riots where worse here than any other place. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't the scale or number of problems. Look at how fast other cities recovered from their black eyes and problems. Riots, terrorism, and natural disasters are regularly occurring events in some places, but not Detroit. We should have less of a problem, right? Why is Detroit still attempting to recover from a disaster that occurred some fifty years ago? The riots and other problems are a mask for a much deeper problem. The reason Detroit has such a bad reputation is very logical, and deserved. I really think that the white flight people tried to start over. They felt failed with Detroit, and tried to look at their mistakes, and fix them. If that is true, then I really think it's possible to flip the situation and learn from their mistakes. Some of their problems wouldn't even be relevant in Detroit (traffic, entertainment, etc.) if we could reach that level. Unfortunately, we never fixed our original problems. The fact that we allowed them to go on for so long is what really hurts our reputation. People would probably be more willing to give Detroit another chance if we haven't proved time and again that we haven't changed much. I am all but sure these people did not want to leave their close nit communities. Many tried to march on in the name of their community. If repetition of illogical acts is a definition of insanity, than Detroit must be completely insane. Why would anyone who isn't a risk taker want to live, pay taxes, or invest in(not to mention put their children's lives into) a lunatic? The conditions in Detroit do seem to be slowly spilling into the suburbs. The sad thing is that there is a possibility of a point of no return. Once everyone lives in the exurbs, it will no longer be very profitable to operate a business around here, and it will be very expensive to maintain our infrastructure. To continue further, One thing that you might want to consider is the broken windows theory. Actually, it's an expansion of that. Have you guys been seeing all of the accident news coverage on Six Flags Amusement Parks recently? They are relatively new to the industry, yet have more accidents per guest than any other park. Cedar Point (who also own Michigan's Adventure), have been around for over 140 years, and have never had a ride related death or major accident. How could that be possible? They have more rides and guests than most other parks. I think the answer is obvious if you've ever been there. They are excessively safe. They treat the small stuff like it's the biggest possible problem. To me, it's clear this is a important key to doing almost anything successfully. I can't comment on the Pointes or many other suburbs. I can tell you what I saw when I was younger, living in Livonia. They actually had televised city hall meetings on what to do with such minor things as vacant store fronts, burnt out street lights, and even pot holes. They had all out debates on whether to build stop signs in some areas, or yield signs. They also did everything possible to attract business owners and families. Now Livonia does a lot of things wrong, I saw all that stuff to. Areas can also go overboard, but that's really irrelevant to Detroit right now. This is nothing unique to any successful suburb near Detroit, this is pretty common sense stuff. When you treat that storefront or vacant home like it's a big problem, it gets solved a little faster. That's just a little less time for scrappers or criminals to set up shop. When you make sure that your street lights work, well that's less time that their is a dark street that neighborhood watch groups can't monitor as well. When you go the extra mile to help a new business owner, that's one more business that may chose you over the competition, and less time they have to spend dealing with red tape. That would also mean the possibility of an extra month of taxes, and less time a storefront is vacant. When you make sure pot holes are filled quickly, that's less stress on your resident's cars, which means they spend less money on car repairs, and more money to pay their rent, mortgages, and taxes. When you enforce minor blight violations, you have people being forced to come up with fixes and excuses for small violations, which means they know you mean business when it comes to bigger violations. This list could go on and on. It really all comes back to what one poster said in another thread, it's all cause and effect. It is pretty simple, and is common sense. As I said before, the problems and causes are obvious. All we need to do is figure out how, when, and where we want to act. Right now we are attracting the young, and other people from out of state who have not been kicked before by the city. These people quickly get burned out after they realize that many big problems are being completely ignored. It's sad because all we're really doing (until methods improve) is creating more people who hate Detroit. Rehabing buildings, and demolishing houses is the easy part. Rehabing the government, city services, and schools is the real fight. If we can't win that, and prove to these new residents that we care x100, then we are quickly going to run out of people who are willing to even give Detroit a visit. Once that happens, it will be decades until a new batch of people are willing to give Detroit a chance again. Back to the expansion of the broken windows theory, I don't pretend to have answers when it comes to these problems. I do however, think that this "we're to busy to handle the small problems" mentality needs to stop. I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe if we started demanding action for this small stuff (all of us, not just the few that already are). Maybe if we started to take on this theory ourselves? Maybe force our city politicians and workers to look at the small stuff just like they treat the big problems. Maybe we should forget the big problems all together, and instead put our energy into the small problems. No, that last one doesn't really sound right. I really don't know, but I think we need some new methods and ideas. It also should be noted that everything mentioned above is simplified in this post. I am well aware that it's bigger than it looks. Many of our residents live here because of the lax rules, attitudes, and enforcement on the minor issues. I would bet that many would fight anyone trying to change that outlook. I like to think it's like that scene from the Matrix (where he says something about all these people they are trying to help, are the same ones who are going to fight to protect the system), many of our residents complain about crime and other problems, then go out and contribute to those problems. Of course, this isn't a movie or an amusement park, and it's also very possible that anyone trying to help could actually be hurting. Maybe some selected parts of the city should stay the way they are (I think some of the pessimism around here might be a result of this). Finally, I also realize that the suburbs are far from perfect. Their problems should be avoided in Detroit, but they do obviously do some things right. My guess is they learned those ideas from other places, or from their own mistakes. I'm sure some are going to jump on me for looking at the positives in the suburbs and other places. I know many want Detroit to lead and not stand in other people's shadow. I know many want us to be us, and not a mini New York or a suburb copy. But is it really that bad to borrow ideas from these places? Let others be the innovators for now. That way we can learn from their failures and mistakes. We can always follow and brake away whenever we want (think of these places as mentors or guides). Besides, look at the automobile and tell me what's better; having the world's first, or having the world's best? Detroit can always become a unique innovator when failure isn't a possible death blow. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 146 Registered: 03-2008 |
BTW: Thank you for your service. I always have respect for those who put themselves in harms way for this country. I thought about joining the armed forces once. That was, until we invaded Iraq. I decided the war on poverty was a better place for me. It just doesn't make since for me to join a fight my heart isn't in. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4684 Registered: 02-2005 |
Sean, GP is like Indian Village with great schools and police. IV hasn't emptied out, because it has so many redeeming qualities that make people truly love it, like the architecture, streetscapes, backyards, and location. Much of GP is similar, and you can add in services and extra amenities [like thriving retail] and a similarly great location. Plenty of parts of GP don't compare to IV and are more typically suburban, but they succeed even if people might not develop an emotional attachment to the architecture, etc. But if we compare the older parts of GP with IV, you can see how GP has no trouble surviving even though some people "just don't get" how you can live that close to Detroit, because there are just as many people that do get it, and understand the value of beautiful places and money well spent. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 1028 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sorry guys, not with Halliburton. Pushing 20 years combined experience as a Ranger (11B, 11C, 11H), Artillery (13B, 13F) as well as Intel (98B and 0132). Not over here in uniform now, but my background deals with the work I am doing. Did 13 in uniform before being injured and getting a medical discharge. You don't have to like what I do or thank me or anyone else, I suspect. We are doing our jobs here as our elected (D and R) officials authorized and from everyone I talk to morale is high, in spite of the Opp tempo (a credit to those still in uniform). Sorry to threadjack, but I wanted to respond to the Halliburton thing. I also live in the D when I am home and I'm sorry the "Paris of the mid-west" was not always a poor ghetto and pointing fingers and white folks in the burbs is not going to address or fix our problems. They don't care or need Detroit in general and are right in their viewpoint. As Detroiters what are WE doing about it, the whine fest got old in 1970 and this is where its got us. We need to fix ourselves and our city, GP should be looked at as a way to do business (yes they are smarter and better then us, look at thier leadership, compared to ours) the results can be seen looking down every street. Poor and blue collar people can still have civic and personal pride, white people in GP did not take that away from us. We as a city lost it. We should look to the GP area as a model and template on how to do things. They doing things right, we, simply are not. I'll be home hopefully by years end, who wants a beer? Also, sorry for the rant, too many folks love to point fingers, but hey ya got one pointing at GP, the other 3 are pointing back at you (not worried about the thumb) Take care everyone. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4689 Registered: 02-2005 |
The East side can't wait to have you back. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11550 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think the article is way off base because it ignores many historical issues that have led to the differences. Ignoring the past in explaining the huge gap is wrong. However I do agree with Gildas that is it time for Detroit and Detroiters to stop pointing to the past as a reason things are the way they are and point to how things can be and work towards that. The role that racism, bigotry, poor, planning, etc played in Detroit's decline is a fact that can't be ignored. Let's understand the past as a reaon that we got to this point. Now let's address how we will continue to improve. The article is bullshit but Gildas' (at least in my opinion) take on addressing on how we can improve is the important thing for all of us. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 950 Registered: 05-2004 |
So what is bullshit in the article? The eyes don't lie. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 148 Registered: 04-2008 |
The only way to go is forward. Looking back doesn't improve the city. Detroit needs jobs, money, good people moving in who are willing to turn around the city, making it better than ever. | ||
Buzzman0077 Member Username: Buzzman0077 Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2006 |
Leadership, is the biggest wall standing between our current status, and a fully revived successful city. | ||
1st_sgt Member Username: 1st_sgt Post Number: 149 Registered: 11-2006 |
I have some questions; I have never been to the “Pointes” so: Where does the money supporting the pointes come from? Is it family money? Where do these white collar people work? Is it true that city politics and administration (running) of the two cities are so different? What is the difference in police protection? Do they have a more police per person or area? Are they locking more people up or running them off? Do they enforce building and maintenance codes more diligently? Are their citizens more educated then Detroit’s? What is the difference in families? Do they have less single parents? Is there more family and/or personal discipline? Are they more religious? Do they have a higher moral back ground? It seems (by the article) they have no low income housing and no lowlifes living there; so no crime, no laziness, no corruption, and no trash, making for a better way of life. Correct? | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 159 Registered: 03-2008 |
Yes, but how do we change that? While there will be some who care, many are in politics for the rest of their career. For many of these people, Detroit is political suicide. So, no good career politician (who holds themselves accountable, despite using these positions as stepping stones) is going to join us in Detroit. Every election it seems we have a choice between the lesser of two evils. Yeah, some of our choices weren't great, but many of the replacements would probably have been just as bad. Even if you are one of the few people who are trying to do good in this city, it is highly likely that the corrupt ones will see you as a threat and take you out. If it's not that, it's simply just being one small voice in a sea of big talkers. The honest people just seem to get overpowered in our city. I got nothing here. Any suggestions? Edit: This post was in response to the corruption posts above. (Message edited by Sean_Of_Detroit on April 27, 2008) | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 1268 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good article. He was wrong about the party stores though. A little honest fiscal responsibility by the local government and school board goes a long way. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 5016 Registered: 10-2003 |
I am amazed to read that there is a city in America that has "no drug addicts". The writer forgot to mention that when residents of such a city fart, it smells like lavender. Only in the Worldnut Daily.. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 160 Registered: 03-2008 |
Oh, "It's all just a little bit of history repeating." The past matters. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 151 Registered: 04-2008 |
Most citizens who live in Detroit aren't stupid. They are going to get tired of all the bullshit, eventually, and will vote the bad ones out. I think the problem is, like so many other Americans, they see politicians who talk a good game, and vote for them. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 161 Registered: 03-2008 |
But, are their enough good ones around here to take their place Gaz? | ||
Django Member Username: Django Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just get your ass back here safe Gildas, Im buyin the beer. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4695 Registered: 02-2005 |
1st_sgt, you should probably visit them. The "money" comes from people working. Mostly white collar, not insubstantial numbers of blue collar, some old money families but these are in limited numbers, and some millionaires (but not too common)...and they all pay sizable taxes. People work all over. A disproportionate amount work in Detroit and downtown Detroit specifically compared to the rest of metro Detroit. There are large numbers of lawyers, bankers, and accountants, so they tend to work downtown. A lot of people own local businesses in Detroit or the east side. A lot of people are health professionals, working in the DMC, St. John, or the two hospitals in GP. Are the politics different than Detroit? Hmm, there's accountability, stability, less corruption than your average political body...so yeah. Regarding police presence-- it's omnipresent. In Detroit, many neighborhoods have it, but it's spotty, or not completely dependable. It is always more than you need in GP (including on the roads...don't speed when you're there). Regarding what they do with criminals, I don't know what to say. I'd assume it's the same as everywhere else. GP is part of the Wayne County court system. The criminals are sent downtown and prosecuted by WC officials. Codes are enforced reasonably well. Most people take extra special care of their property, anyway. Regarding building new structures, codes are important in maintaining the consistent fabric of the cities. The cities are basically built-out, and have been for several decades, so we are mainly talking about additions and downtown development here. Yes, the average citizen has a higher level of education than the average Detroit citizen. I suppose if you compared GP citizens to Detroit citizens of the same average income level, like people who live in Palmer Woods or Indian Village or downtown, they'd be comparable. This is pretty standard and predictable. It's how society is organized. Having said that, there are a lot of entreprenuers and successful people who either didn't go to college, or earned it at the hard way, paying their own way through local institutions. Not everyone, or rather, most people, are not silver spoon in GP. There are plenty of messed up families and divorces happening in GP as elsewhere, but things tend to go more smoothly when there is lots of money to quell the situation. And much of population is of traditional beliefs, so family values are strong. That's not to say they aren't among many Detroiters, though. I'd assume there are less single mothers, though. More religious? Depends on what you mean by religious. Lots of people go to church, but so do Detroiters. All the church lots I saw going down Mack and Charlevoix to St. Joseph in Detroit today were overflowing, and some of the parking lots in GP were not full. There's piety everywhere, and its too hard to generalize whether people live their faith or not, based on what city they live in. GP is like an upper class east coast suburb with plenty of non-religious or pragmatic people, but with the added midwest element. Lots of Catholics, here. Higher moral background?-- see above answer. There are lowlifes everywhere. I've seen or heard of plenty of disgusting people in the GPs. No place is perfect. Is there low income housing with respect to places where people on government assistance can go? No. Is there affordable housing where people who work but make very little can live? Actually, yes. Not a ton, but there are rental flats and some bungalows and apartments that require fairly small mortgages. Sure, they are 120k here and would be 40k in Detroit, but those are places where people with a steady job can live. And there is an abundance of housing in the 100-300k range where unpretentious working people can live. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 165 Registered: 03-2008 |
Machinaw said: "Regarding police presence-- it's omnipresent. In Detroit, many neighborhoods have it, but it's spotty, or not completely dependable. It is always more than you need in GP (including on the roads...don't speed when you're there)." I think that's a big one. How many people do ten or even twenty over, run red lights, and so many other things because they think Detroit police have bigger things to worry about? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4696 Registered: 02-2005 |
A lot of people...including many GP-ers happy to get away from their oppressive police who are in a rush to get downtown! Not that I'm endorsing that or anything. In fact, recently on Jefferson, I've noticed that people just move a lot slower these days. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 168 Registered: 03-2008 |
Yeah, but it really seems that we have only the two extremes sometimes. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2008 |
The author of the article sounded a lot like Bill Cosby trying to encourage people to better themselves... In other words, it will fall on deaf ears for most Detroiters! Conservative blacks unfortunately don't have supportive audiences in these parts. His history is lacking, but I agree with the main gist. This line did throw me though: "I will assume that because it is an affluent city like others across America this is a Democrat town" | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4699 Registered: 02-2005 |
Threw me, too. It kind of, sort of, applies to GP Park these days. That's about it. Moderate Republicans dominate. | ||
Skylark Member Username: Skylark Post Number: 42 Registered: 08-2007 |
"social security we give to our senior citizens who are unduly burdening society and killing business that have to pay retirees' exorbitant social security and Medicare benefits, robbing society of their wisdom by "retiring" at 55 years old." A bit harsh on our seniors. | ||
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06 Post Number: 98 Registered: 03-2007 |
Actually I've heard Indian Village is having some major problems of late. Talked to a resident recently who said there are 60 foreclosed homes in the area and IV residents are kind of freaking out about it... (scrappers, crime, etc.) I would say the other major difference between IV and the pointes is the park systems and the fact that you can walk around completely safely at any time of the day/night (not to mention grocery shopping etc.) | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 620 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote:IV is a stone's throw from Belle Isle. So yes, that is a major difference. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4701 Registered: 02-2005 |
The parks situation is great for both. Obviously, if you're interested in a park that's more like a yacht club, then GP is better. Sparty, Indian Village does have a handy supermarket right on Jefferson, but I've never done any extensive shopping there so I don't know how good it is. GP has had some scrapper issues lately, too. Honestly, I look over my shoulder sometimes at night in GP. There are too few people around, oftentimes, and on many streets the homes are set back a healthy distance and kind of dark. The streetlights are currently out here on my parents' block right now, too. (the fault of Edison, not the CoGP). | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1120 Registered: 06-2004 |
Gildas, I am humbled by your bravery. Thank you for being over there, in whatever capacity. Ray | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1206 Registered: 11-2006 |
What is the difference in police protection? In GP the police respond. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 308 Registered: 01-2007 |
Gildas and Sean of Det., your insights are right on. The importance of demanding stellar service from all elected officials and their respective departments are what will drive Detroit's comeback. Union workers, (of which I am one), can do good work, but the age of status quo is about to end. If AFSCME, the teachers, police, garbage workers unions, etc. continue to protect the deadwood in their ranks, then they WILL be replaced by low cost non-union workers. The City Counsel needs to be reformed with a portion elected and answerable to districts. Name calling, grand standing, and a general lack of competence in the area of policymaking and it's impact do not belong. These people have been hired by you who vote in Detroit. It IS within your power to fire them too. Make them accountable and answerable to you. Every streetlight, illegal dump, crack house, rape, murder, property crime, and drop out student, are important. Even if these do not affect you personally. Respect for the rule of law is grossly lacking and MUST be addressed to affect any chance of renewal. Education and Entrepreneurialism desperately need improvement. Maybe with a mentorship program between successful business people and students? I certainly DO NOT have all the answers, but have been reading as much as I can on the subject to try to cull what has worked in other areas. Here are some books I recommend: "Downtown: It's Rise and Fall, 1880-1950", by Robert M. Fogelson; "The American City: What Works and What Doesen't-2nd Edition" by Alexander Garvin. | ||
1st_sgt Member Username: 1st_sgt Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2006 |
GP sounds like the place to live. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 1030 Registered: 12-2004 |
I've been thinking about this article and Detroit and its many problems, however, I think that the problem might be that: The problem with Detroit is that it is full of Detroiters. Before everyone "flames me" for this, think about it. We have a culture that in generational and endemic at this point. We have city "leaders" who play the race card during elections by seeing who is the blackest and after elected act as if they are accountable to no one, and the residents accept this. We have high unemployment, high illiteracy (any connection) and a school system that is third world at best, and the residents accept this. The major says Detroit is hiring police but people cannot pass the drug screening, furthermore leaders talk about training for the jobs of tomorrow. Now lets face it, employers for the jobs of tomorrow are not moving to Detroit for good reason, high crime, poor services, dealing with the city is ponderous on its best day and the workers of tomorrow are not here. Throw in union issues and the never ended finger pointing and race card issues whenever there is a problem and what company is interested in dealing with that. And the residents accept this. We have lights out, roads in bad repair, high drop out amongst students, unaccountable "leaders," etc. And Detroiters accept this. Before you argue about the people who fight this, and yes they are out there, they are too few in number to enact change, or else change would have already happened. Far to many resident lack the education for the jobs of the future and the civic pride to bring about change. In short Detroit cannot save itself. It will need tens of thousands of non-Detroiters to move in and force change, if you took a half million people from other areas / cities and drooped them into Detroit, things would change quickly, phones would ring off the hook at city hall. Deadbeats would be voted out, change would be forced by those with a difference endemic culture. one that expects results and accountability. This is not Detroit's case and this is not going to happen, Michigan and Detroit are becoming economic and social black holes. We whine and complain and blame while the rest of the nation moves on. We created this culture and we reap what was sown decades ago, we're too old and stupid to change and everyday we fall farther behind. Let the blame game begin. Take care all. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 161 Registered: 04-2008 |
I think there are people in Detroit right now who are motivated and innovative and could turn the city around, given the chance. The problem is, they are probably hesitant to run for office, and apparently, for good reason. |
