  Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 105 Registered: 02-2008 |
I don't know if there is a thread on this before but i want to know. Can the actually size of Greektown become bigger. because within five minutes it seems like you just went around the whole place. I would like to see it have the depth of like Little Italy or a Chinatown of NY. Can it be bigger? | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 389 Registered: 11-2007 |
Well, it's getting taller if that helps you. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4662 Registered: 02-2005 |
Aggressive marketing on certain key parcels for retail/mixed use could go a long way. The NE corner of Brush and Monroe is a big empty space that needs infill. There are two huge parking structures across the street, so I doubt that surface lot is neccesary in the grand scheme. But it is neccesary as far as the profiting land-owners are concerned. The key is providing an incentive, like a 10-year state/city property tax abatement, i.e., for a constructive redevelopment of that parcel or similar ones. The landowners aren't sure if they can make enough money to cover the potential future earnings from keeping it a parking lots by selling it to a developer, or by developing it themselves and renting space, but odds are, with that amazing location between Greektown's main block and CMP and the stadia, you will be able to rent space for a large premium. They probably wouldn't need a government handout to make money, but it might be worth it to give them a kick in the pants. On the other hand, we could just wait for a developer with a vision to target this sight or a similar one and purchase it themselves. This is the traditional, hands-off approach, and there's nothing wrong with it, except that we'd probably have to wait awhile. If the City decides, for certain parcels, that it's not worth it to wait out greedy parking industry people, because they think that a development on a particular block will be a keystone in making downtown better, then I'm not averse to handouts, or the government purchasing the lot to sell to developers. I know it's unorthodox, but the parking industry has a dependable stream of income that will only grow with more downtown events, thus their grip on the land is firm, and the city, if it wants to carry out any type of master plan for downtown density, may want to pry them off the valuable land. We should assume that everyone would pursue profit if its available to them, but when profits are already high, there's little incentive to sell that profitable parcel, especially if you are unsure about what exactly might be more profitable, or are just lazy and want to keep paying minimum-wage workers to give out parking tabs and take 15 bucks from everyone that drives in. So this story can be told for more than half of "bricktown," and most of the blocks north and east of Greektown. At some point between 1950-now, most of the buildings that made cohesive streetscapes disappeared. And that's why it isn't bigger, because if there was any cohesion there today in the form of unbroken storefronts like in Greektown, it would be only natural to have a massive area chock-full of uninterrupted vitality from the Ren Cen to the Stadia. But alas, they're gone. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 106 Registered: 02-2008 |
I would just like to see it have the depth of a Little Italy or a Chinatown or at least build up some freaking lofts on or off of Monroe at least. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 613 Registered: 04-2006 |
Go for it. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4664 Registered: 02-2005 |
If there was a strong residential element in that part of downtown, it could really make Greektown more dynamic, and grow Greektown. Bricktown would be perfect for mid-density apartments and condos, IMO. (Message edited by mackinaw on April 23, 2008) | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 1552 Registered: 01-2004 |
Little Italy seems like it's fighting for its life these days. Seems like it was down to a single street last time I visited. Check the website ... http://www.littleitalynyc.com/ | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 142 Registered: 03-2008 |
Yeah. I parked in the new garage for the first time Tuesday. It's very nice. I like how it tells you how many spots are open on each level. I also like how you don't have to mess with any ticket validation now. I'm more than a little confused as to why people are still paying a fortune to park on the surface lots. I also don't understand how $10 lots exist right next to $25 lots in that area. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 1073 Registered: 01-2006 |
I think connecting Greektown and Bricktown is not that far off. With Floods and Locos and Nikkis's all on the south edge of greektown I think there is already progress. I would not mind seeing some residential development in the bricktown area. That would certainly spur a push to connect the two areas. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 107 Registered: 02-2008 |
I think it will happen eventually i hope, its two great destinations that should be connected to become a 24hr district, since Greektown already kind of is i guess. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4665 Registered: 02-2005 |
Dstar, I consider them pretty much connected. We're talking about a matter of 2 blocks. Basically Greektown is 2-3 blocks on Monroe, and immediately to the south is Bricktown, which is basically Detroiter Bar plus the places you mentioned, St. Andrews, Jacoby's, Sweetwater Tavern, and Buzz Bar/Opus. The destinations are there, but some more residential there would round the neighborhood out. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 108 Registered: 02-2008 |
Lofts seem to be a great fit for the area, is there any residential at all directly in the area? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4666 Registered: 02-2005 |
Millender Ctr. is not far, Broadway with its sporadic lofts is not far, and LP is across the freeway, but it's a wholly seperate neighborhood. The East Riverfront will come on line with new developments hopefully within five years, so one would hope that development spreads due north towards Greektown, Gratiot, and the Stadia. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4667 Registered: 02-2005 |
Regarding Little Italy in Manhattan, is it dissipating because a lot of the actual Italian-owned buildings with Italians living in them and Italian stores/restaurants on the street are being purchased by mega-loft developers with rich people (Italian or otherwise) moving in? I hear Little Italy in the Bronx might actually be better. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2614 Registered: 07-2004 |
Before Blue Cross/Blue Shield expanded on East Fort and Lafayette, the land that they would eventually build on was two parking lots. East Fort continued passed Beaubien as a one way street and turned into Monroe, heading north. Many patrons of Flood's Bar would park along those streets, myself included. I often envisioned townhomes/brownstones along East Fort as well as Lafayette and Beauabien, where the other parking lot was located. Residential units in this area would have been ideal. Alas it was not meant to be because it was more important for the city to keep BC/BS in the city when BC/BS wanted to expand, than to develop what would be today a great residential area downtown. BC/BS is still impeding residential development around its headquarters. Instead of tearing down the parking structure at the corner of Congress and Beaubien, they've decided to save half of it and use the other half as a surface parking lot for visitors. Had they torn down the entire structure, there was room to put s residential development at that corner. Again, it would have been an ideal spot for something residential, but again it's not meant to be. I do hope that one day the northwest corner of Congress and Beaubien gets developed into something residential. It would be nice to see s modern day take on the brick buildings that make up "Bricktown." New townhomes/brownstones that are reminiscent of the lone house/shop on Beaubien and Larned would be a coup. Now, regarding the expansion of Greektown, I have envisioned some new restaurants and shops on Macomb Street, one block north of Monroe, where the Wayne County Sheriff's Office is located along with that long surface parking next to it. Move the sheriff's office and build some restaurants and shops that have a different "flavor" than the restaurants and shops on Monroe Street. Create an ethnically diverse block with restaurants and shops that feature Chinese, Japanese, African, Korean, and African American foods and wares. Call it United Nations Town (U.N-town for short). It would be a coup as well. Greektown would be a truly great neighborhood if it expanded and added residential units. Maybe some of this can still happen once Greektown Casino is done with its permanent casino. Up to this point a lot of development in Greektown has been predicated on what the Greektown Casino needs. There're still a good number of surface parking lots in an around Greektown. Well-thoughtout development of these sites could really expand Greektown and make it an ideal neighborhood to live in for generations to come. (Message edited by royce on April 24, 2008) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3041 Registered: 04-2006 |
Little Italy in Manhattan is really not that much bigger than Greektown (if it's bigger at all). It's a bit overshadowed by Chinatown. | ||
Supergay Member Username: Supergay Post Number: 138 Registered: 05-2006 |
Ugh, Greektown is so trashy, why expand it? Contract it, I say. And there are already a bunch of lofts there, take a look up as you head into Bouzouki sometime. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4677 Registered: 02-2005 |
Royce, agreed. I don't think there's anything wrong with BCBS's presence, or their hulking parking garage. Things can be built up around it, but they either need to make St. Antoine a through street again, or make a sidewalk which goes straight through. Also, as residential development happens on the riverfront/Atwater, there needs to be a proper crosswalk with a traffic light at St. Antoine and Jefferson. I'm waiting for U-D to building housing for their law students on their parking lot. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 630 Registered: 09-2006 |
I agree with the comments made regarding Little Italy in NYC. Last time I was there it seemed much smaller than years ago.. As for restaurants,, I still think Erie St. in Windsor On., oddly enough is more impressive, much better quality. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 109 Registered: 02-2008 |
Royce i don't like that idea or name. No offense but the name is just as tacky sounding as for example Paradise Valley. but if you put all those restaurants there, why not just have an ethnic neighborhood for each of those restaurants so there is more tourist destinations for people visiting the city. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4681 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well, Umbound, you do want infill on Macomb St., right? Perhaps the parcels can just be marketed to whoever wants them, rather than targeting ethnic entreprenuers, and perhaps we should avoid naming a neighborhood after the UN, but Lord knows even UN-town would be better than parking lots. Some of those police buildings behind Greektown are so out of place. They really detract from downtown. It's not they they are police buildings, it just that they look like they were dropped in from Sterling Heights. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 111 Registered: 02-2008 |
I dont know i guess, but it just sounds tacky to me for ex. "Hey lets go to UN-Town!" me: "what the hell is UN-Town?" friend: "its that new thing by Greektown" me: "man that place sounds gay". Honestly if someone said that to me thats what would probably happen. But i dont even know what the Sterling Heights HQ looks like, i hate it over there. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 112 Registered: 02-2008 |
I dont know i guess, but it just sounds tacky to me for ex. "Hey lets go to UN-Town!" me: "what the hell is UN-Town?" friend: "its that new thing by Greektown" me: "man that place sounds gay". Honestly if someone said that to me thats what would probably happen. But i dont even know what the Sterling Heights HQ looks like, i never hang out there ever. would not want to either. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4683 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well, the point is, take the UN-town idea with a grain of salt. A very tiny grain. Royce's main point is a good idea. This will help you see the buildings I'm talking about. Between the ugly rear of the DPD HQ and the DPM tracks basically ruining any potential for a nice streetwall on the block to the west, we should not get our hopes up for development on Macomb Street. Perhaps focusing on growing outward towards Randolph and towards Bricktown would be better. |
