  Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 166 Registered: 07-2007 |
How hard is it to transfer books and equipment to another school or even just donate them to the Detroit Public Library or the kids themselves instead of letting them rot away while others loot the rest of the buildings?  http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080404/NEWS01/804040302 "RUINED AND EMPTY IN DETROIT: Schools given up to thieves, vandals A month after Detroit Public Schools officials announced that most of the district's vacant schools had been carefully secured, Joy Middle School on the city's east side sat last week with unlocked doors, rubble-filled hallways trashed by vandals, a room full of new computers left behind and a stash of students' personal records scattered on the floor. The destruction in a school vacant for just 10 months stands as a stunning example of what can go wrong in the handful of schools yet to be secured by the district. Of the 33 schools closed last year, Detroit Public Schools did not immediately board up and empty out all the buildings, saying a contractor had failed to do its job." (Message edited by GreatLakes on April 04, 2008) | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2435 Registered: 10-2006 |
Greatlakes, it might be possible (albeit too late in this case) that DPS was planning to do that. Vandals can be quicker at picking up valuables than the DPS. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 124 Registered: 01-2007 |
What I don't understand is how they have had to board up the windows three times. Does that mean people keep taking them off and getting in? Maybe they should put bars on the windows. Try something that won't let people around as easy. Doing that once would cost money but would probably still be cheaper than replacing the boards every week. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2437 Registered: 10-2006 |
Yes, but to play devil's advocate on behalf of the DPS, in a building with a hundred openings (doors and windows), it only requires a vandal to remove on board to access the WHOLE building. So even with bars on 99 of the openings, that still wouldn't be enough. Furthermore, it isn't the job of a schools system (inherently) to secure buildings, but rather to educate. And most would argue that the DPS doesn't even do that good of a job at that. | ||
Rocknrollscientist Member Username: Rocknrollscientist Post Number: 110 Registered: 05-2005 |
Obviously they're not doing a very good job at educating if they'd rather let brand new computers/components sit and rot along with textbooks instead of using them to EDUCATE. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 241 Registered: 02-2007 |
There is a school By the 4-H club on Mcclellan off Gratiot that has metal coverings on the windows. They should do that to all the vacant school buildings. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 242 Registered: 02-2007 |
And also, Cooper Elementary on Georgia is one of the best looking older school buildings I have ever seen. Newer windows are all open or broken out. This building could easily be turned into low income lofts with the right developer. But it sits in the middle of an "Urban Praire"now. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 126 Registered: 01-2007 |
Agreed. But why would they leave one open? Put bars on them all. I know in an occupied building that'd be a fire hazard, but this is unoccupied, right? With regards to your second point, I'm confused. If the buildings are required for education, then it is their duty to maintain ownership (and therefore protect) those assets. And not just while they're used. That responsibility exists even if the building isn't needed, but goes until it's sold or demolished. It'd be like a someone who does lawn cutting for a business. They need the lawn mower, and even if they buy a new one, they still have a responsibility to either house the old one, sell it, or discard of it properly. They can't just leave it outside and say, "oh, my business is cutting lawns, so getting rid of old lawn mowers isn't my concern." I see your point but I just think that you're letting them off the hook a bit. They have a responsibility to protect those assets, even if they're not used to educate anymore. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1262 Registered: 06-2006 |
The company that was supposed to secure the buildings and transfer supplies was not paid and walked off the job. DPS knew about this and did nothing. Teachers offered to use their own vehicles to go and get books and equipment and we were told NO. We would be fired and/or arrested if found on property of the closed buildings. I still don't have textbooks for all of my kids. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 291 Registered: 01-2007 |
Throw the bums out! If I were a parent with kids in the DPS, I'd be at every meeting on their case to do the job we hired them for. | ||
Cocoabee Member Username: Cocoabee Post Number: 14 Registered: 03-2008 |
what a waste. Such a shameful display of the destruction of taxpayers' property. If kids did this, then where the hell are their parents? Don't they know right from wrong? | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1144 Registered: 11-2006 |
Something just has to give. I want to think, and think I believe that Detroit is about to do a 360 and she is now at the 355 mark. That means that soon, very soon, a complete about face will happen. How can it not happen this way? It's darkest just before the dawn, right? | ||
Johnnny5 Member Username: Johnnny5 Post Number: 726 Registered: 06-2005 |
Unfortunately the result of a "360" is that you end up heading in the same direction. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5747 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote: Kathy... I think you meant a 180. Doing a 360 would put you back where you started--maybe a bit dizzily. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1146 Registered: 11-2006 |
uh, oops. God, I can be so lame. I always think that before you can close the circle you have all these open endings and nothing can proceed until you close any gaps. Does that make any sense? You are right. It is a 180, but it still makes sense to me to say 360. Maybe that's why I don't post as often as I think I want to  | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5748 Registered: 10-2004 |
This is another way of saying what you did: come full circle quote: | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2957 Registered: 01-2005 |
Funny, I took a drive down to the little mining town of Nelson, Nevada, this morning, and took this photo of the old Nelson one-room schoolhouse. It was built around 1900 and used until about 1930. Been vacant ever since, and looks better than some of the Detroit schools.  | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1147 Registered: 11-2006 |
Ly, thanks for the explanation! That's kind of what I always think I mean. Seriously though, if you met me, you would think I do have a brain - I swear! | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5749 Registered: 10-2004 |
What does that sign say on that school? G.R.O.S.S. Get Rid Of Slimy GirlS from Calvin. (Message edited by livernoisyard on April 04, 2008) | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 512 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is really terrible. The real criminals are the vandals and scrappers that broke into the buildings, but the school administration really screwed up. And the parents of the kids whose confidential records were left behind could probably sue the district over it. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5751 Registered: 10-2004 |
Call 1-800-ISUEYOU... There aren't any Detroiters who sue for a living, are there? | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2959 Registered: 01-2005 |
LY, the sign says Private Property. It's owned by the town, but they're trying to preserve what's left of it. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5752 Registered: 10-2004 |
For over a dozen years, I lived on a farm in the South-central Wisconsin town of Magnolia between Evansville and Brodhead. Every Sunday, several Amish would drive their horse-drawn vehicles past my place on Highway 59. One week they came from Brodhead; the next they came from Evansville. Back then, they had a spanking brand-new one-room wooden schoolhouse (complete with a new privy vault) some three miles away just outside Evansville. There, their teachers--usually older female teenagers--taught the younger kids what they needed to know in both English and German on those alternate Sundays. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 1417 Registered: 03-2007 |
I'm a retired urban school district superintendent...in the course of my career I closed schools...we ALWAYS had the trucks backed up and loaded before the schools were taken out of service...it is inconceivable to close a school while leaving assets such as computers...much less student records...behind. The DPS administration is beyond incompetent! | ||
Eastside61 Member Username: Eastside61 Post Number: 1169 Registered: 07-2006 |
Joy Jr HS is just one of many that DPS has vacated... Does anyone care anymore......???? The wasted and destroyed assets you would think would bring total outrage.....but the sad part is the children who once again have been abandoned..... Only in America •••• | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 502 Registered: 05-2006 |
-This is an absolute disgrace on so many levels it is simply unbelievable, and a microcosm of a much bigger problem, and how we got here. | ||
Cris Member Username: Cris Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good point, Goblue.. In my teaching career I've had two different times where we closed a high school and moved to a new building. Once it was a Catholic school in Detroit, the other was a small town in north Oakland County. The same thing you described happened. We had to have things packed up during the last few weeks of school, and classes were taught with bare essentials during the last days. We were assigned specific days that everything in our rooms had to be packed and ready-- and on those days, the moving trucks took it all away. Nothing was left behind. | ||
Detroitmaybe Member Username: Detroitmaybe Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2008 |
Does anyone attend school board meetings? I'm sure this issue has been addressed...what does the school board members have to say about this? I think it is so disappointing how DPS is ran and operated!! I have heard stories of the computers still containing student personal info...and students personal files being left in file cabinets when the schools closed. And..it is so messed up that there are books being left behind when there are not even enough books to go around. I rode past a school in Detroits Northend neighborhood just yesterday, and the school was completely vandalized....grafitti, busted windows, and books and desks littering the front lawn. I tried to take a pic but, my battery was dead on my camera. It was a crazy sight...unbelievable!! I find it so hard to understand why DPS has such a hard time running and maintaining this district. It is so disheartening and frustrating to know that the Public School Administration is this incompetent!! I have a friend that worked under William Coleman and says that he was significantly underqualified for the Superintendent position, and terrible mismanaged everything from the Budget on down. I would never, ever, ever, ever willingly send my child to DPS...no offense to the DPS teachers but, ya'll know it's bad!! | ||
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617 Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2008 |
Could be because officials know they will never be held accountable for failing to do their job? | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2597 Registered: 07-2004 |
If DPS has a tight budget and money needs to be spent on day to day necessities, then spending money on securing buildings no longer in use is not going to be DPS's priority. Yes, DPS could have done a better job of removing books, computers, student files, and other assets from these school buildings before they closed. However, it is a massive task and expense to secure all of these buildings from vandals, especially vandals who are determined to break into a building that has doors locked and windows shut. It is a sad state of affairs when locking a door and closing a window is not enough of a sign to tell uninvited guests(in this case vandals) to stay out. However, DPS knows that they have to do more to secure their buildings, but when money is tight, they have to prioritize. So, spending money to secure buildings you no longer use is a waste of money when that money needs to go towards maintaining the buildings you currently use. This Free Press article is one of those news articles that newspapers throw out there when it is a slow news week and they're trying to sell papers. The headline is designed to get a gut-level reaction from the reader which makes the reader say, "This is appalling," and as a result of this reaction, the reader feels compelled to buy the paper to find out more about the topic. Journalism not at its best, but it sells papers. (Message edited by royce on April 05, 2008) | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 686 Registered: 10-2003 |
You all are going to judge me and my family for this, but I'll say it anyway. Remember the old Roosevelt warehouse? They used to destroy outdated books there, to make room for other, newer books that were being held for the schools. To my grandfather, a 1933 Cass Tech grad, the destruction of ANY book was a sacrilege that made Mother Earth cry. He was the head boiler room engineer there for many years before his retirement. For many years, Granddad took these discarded books home, for his children and grandchildren. He had the blessing of his coworkers, who thought he was a little odd anyway. We could only read them in the house, but no one minded. And of course, he, my grandmother, and my parents purchased many hundreds of other books, mainly from used bookstores and the Main Branch DPL annual sale. Those books served us well. His son is a Stanford grad and now owns and is CEO of a Chicago tech firm. His daughter is a University of Michigan grad. And I've done well academically too. Because my grandmother watched me while my mom worked, and there were no other kids for a while (I'm the oldest), I read those books more than anyone. I was reading by age 2, by age 5 was reading on the 12th grade level, and in kindergarten was tested by a psychiatrist who said I had a Mensa-level IQ. All from growing up in a print-rich environment. What if my grandfather had just left those books there? I shudder as I wonder. Maybe other Detroit grandparents and parents should've "stolen" more books. For in the end, many thousands (if not millions) were destroyed between the Roosevelt fire and the school closings. (Message edited by English on April 05, 2008) | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1151 Registered: 11-2006 |
English, the only judgement I can come up with is judging you as fortunate for having a wonderful grandfather and grandmother. We are all products of our upbringing. | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 1163 Registered: 01-2007 |
I bet there are a TON of schools around the world who would die for the resources left to rot in Detroit Public Schools. For SHAME Detroit! | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1155 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bulletmagnet, why aren't you at the rally? Not accusing, just asking. Have you heard if it is going to be a huge thing? | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 171 Registered: 07-2007 |
quote: It feels good to blame the messenger doesn't it? I mean, why face the reality that the DPS administration consistently fails Detroit's children? Just like those who say the media shouldn't have reported about the text messaging scandal. Yay for censorship! After all, there's no way stories like this might lead to things getting done! Oh wait... http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20080405/NEWS01/ 804050333 "A day after a Free Press report revealed equipment and student records with personal information remained inside a shuttered school amidst stunning vandalism, Detroit Board of Education employees began boarding up the building." | ||
Goose Member Username: Goose Post Number: 66 Registered: 02-2005 |
sadly, detroit is probably indeed on the verge of doing a 360 seems no matter what happens, who gets elected, what is done, it always ends with the same results it would be nice if they could maybe pull a 90 and TURN RIGHT!••• | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2599 Registered: 07-2004 |
Well, Greatlakes, I don't usually blame the messenger, but I remember the Detroit News doing a story in the Sunday paper that said convicts were driving public school busses around the state. After reading several lines, the article said that less than 2% of all public school bus drivers had felony records. The headline clearly made it sound like there was an epidemic of felons driving school busses. Ever since then, I have been critical of the local newspapers whenever I see a headline that purports some major goings-on with a school district, especially DPS. Again, bad journalism, but it sells papers. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 127 Registered: 01-2007 |
Royce, did you see the 27 or so picture slideshow that went with the article? That's not sensationalizing at all. It made me sick to my stomach to look at those pictures. I agree that money is tight and they may want to spend the money elsewhere, but that's a cop-out. Any institution or company shutting down a building could most certainly always use the money elsewhere. Nobody wants to incur those costs, but it's part of operating. When companies like GM close down plants or other facilities, you always hear of 'charges' associated with closing them down. Do you think they'd rather use those funds elsewhere? Of course. But it's not an option to just walk away and let someone else clean up the mess. Besides, don't they eventually want to sell these buildings or mothball them in the event that they might be needed one day in the future? Look at the pictures. Walls torn down, ceilings missing, pipes ripped out. Compare that to the story a few weeks ago of the school in Canton (I think) that suffered a fire and is unusable for the rest of the year. They were able to move the students and teachers into a mothballed building within a week or so? Yet just looking at the pictures of this mess, it would take months to ever re-use this building? Sorry, the Freep does not get the blame for this one. | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2004 |
It sounds like some of the parents are angry that their kid's records were left unsecured but they should probably be mad that their kid only has a one in four chance of ever getting through 12th grade. Actually come to think of it, the parents who cared about the records might represent the kind of parents who's kids actual makes up the bulk of the 25% who graduate. |
