 
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4044
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 4:04 pm: |    |
quote:As for other areas where Amtrak trains can exceed 79mph, the NEC and line to Harrisburg are all good for over 79. Also, a segment of the route of the Southwest Chief in either Colorado or New Mexico is also good for 90mph. Hope this helps.
The Amtrak-owned Keystone segment (Harrisburg to Philadelphia) was recently upgraded, and has 110 mph service (all-electrified). The former 2-hour trip now takes 90 minutes on the 104-mile segment.
Maximum speeds in the remainder of the NEC vary wildly. In Connecticut, the segment from New Haven to the New York state line is owned by the State of Connecticut, and the trains seem to crawl. In Southern Massachusetts and Rhode Island, the Acela cruises at 150 mph.
Right now, average Acela speed from DC to New York is 83 mph (including station stops and slow urban segments like DC's Brentwood Yard and the Hudson River tunnels). Congressman John Mica (R-FL) is now pushing for sub-2 hour train service between the two cities (current Acela service takes about 2:45).
http://www.nationalcorridors.o rg/df2/df03242008.shtml#Congre ssman |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1972
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 4:08 pm: | |
Danindc,
That segment of track is owned by the MTA, not the state of Connecticut. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4045
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 4:16 pm: | |
^^^Actually, not true. Metro North merely operates the commuter service on that segment. The State of Connecticut owns the tracks, and provides the railcars and funding for the service on that segment of the New Haven Line.
Metro North Railroad, as part of New York MTA, is an authority of New York State, and doesn't own assets in Connecticut.
North/East of New Haven, ownership of the NEC mainline reverts to Amtrak. |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1973
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 4:18 pm: | |
I'm sorry, I misread your post.
The MTA owns tracks from the state line to New Rochelle. You are right about the section in Connecticut but west of New Haven. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 4:25 pm: | |
States can own things in other states. Example: New York owns the Statue of Liberty and Liberty Island upon which it sits, but Liberty Island is in the State of New Jersey. |
N7hn
Member
Username: N7hn
Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 7:58 pm: | |
Has anyone mentioned they go slower to avoid lawsuits and expensive safety gate upgrades? The folks that always drive around the substandard gate equipment on the route see them coming better when they come up slower, or can at least GUN IT..... Your schedule, comfort or reason isnt their concern. = ) |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5603
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:03 pm: | |
How expensive could those few grade crossings be? They are only two between Woodward and Dearborn! And the Amtraks blast at the high speed through the Junction Yard, except when there occasionally is a speed-limit sign posted on the ground around Stecker Street. |
Downriviera
Member
Username: Downriviera
Post Number: 163
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:26 pm: | |
Heres your chance to play Amtrak engineer.
http://www.3dtrainstuff.com/pr oducts/usa-branch/amtrak1.html |
Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 10:34 pm: | |
To clarify the speed issue:
Trains between Porter and Kalamazoo can do 95 MPH at the moment. Eventually they are supposed to go up to 110 MPH, but they (Amtrak) have been talking about this for the last 3 years. The Southwest Chief segment can do 90 MPH because of an old ATS system in place. I believe the segment in question is in New Mexico.
LY, to clarify your position about NS selling the tracks between Dearborn and Porter: It was my understanding--I was told by a conductor on a trip to Chicago--that NS offered the line to Amtrak, since they had no need for it, but that Amtrak refused, saying that they could not afford to maintain it. Whether that is actually true, I have no idea; like I said, I was told this. |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 114
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 11:30 pm: | |
Really Burnsie? I didn't mean as an enforcement thing I meant in highly industrial areas...I know 79 mph is the accepted rail speed limit. But you should be careful after dark on Amtrak's long distance trains because that's when the engineers make up lost time from being "in the hole" all day. I've seen them take it to 100 mph...God help you get back to your seat/room if you've been getting drunk in the clubcar
here ya go Downriviera
http://youtube.com/watch?v=t0x csVj6_yk&feature=related |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1725
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 7:51 am: | |
For more info on the selling of the NS line, I Googled it and this is what I came up with.
"In July 2007 Norfolk Southern was in talks with Watco, a shortline holding company, to sell the Kalamazoo-Detroit portion of the Michigan Central main line. The proposal was set before the Surface Transportation Board, and was officially endorsed by Amtrak in September 2007.[1][2] In December of 2007 the STB rejected the plan, citing concerns over the relationship between the Norfolk Southern and Watco. Labor unions had raised concerns over the transfer of operations to a substantially non-transportation company, under which different labor regulations would apply."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M ichigan_Central_Railroad |
Long_in_the_tooth
Member
Username: Long_in_the_tooth
Post Number: 90
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 8:22 am: | |
It's a Amtrak courtesy..... so you can better see
the sights. |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1337
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 8:29 am: | |
Flyingi-- You wrote that "most major cities regulate rail traffic at yardspeeds." Reading that, one would infer that the cities themselves set the yard speed limits. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1729
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:23 am: | |
Speaking of Amtrak, Chris Felcyn's Listening Room is coming from his trip onboard Amtrak to Chicago.
"March 30 at 10a.m. The Listening Room presents Alfred Brendel. He’s one of the greatest pianists on the planet, and if you missed Alfred Brendel’s final Midwest performance earlier this month, never fear. Our Chris Felcyn along with Jimmy Rhoades hopped the Amtrak Wolverine to Chicago to catch Brendel’s farewell, and you’ll hear all about it (from the train, no less)."
http://www.wrcj909fm.org/index .htm |
Jhartmich
Member
Username: Jhartmich
Post Number: 90
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:11 pm: | |
My friend is coming in on the Amtrak Thursday from Chicago. Because of the god-awful slow speeds, I started picking friends up in Dearborn; saves them about 45 minutes of boredom getting to the Detroit Amtrak station. I started doing this last January when they got all the way to approx. Michigan Ave. and were stopped for an hour because of train traffic. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1731
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:16 pm: | |
Sundays is always the best day to travel if you can because there is much less freight traffic. Also if you can catch the first train out of either Detroit or Chicago each day, you can usually make it there with minimal stops. |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1975
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:27 pm: | |
quote:My friend is coming in on the Amtrak Thursday from Chicago. Because of the god-awful slow speeds, I started picking friends up in Dearborn; saves them about 45 minutes of boredom getting to the Detroit Amtrak station. I started doing this last January when they got all the way to approx. Michigan Ave. and were stopped for an hour because of train traffic.
I believe this is one of the reasons that Ann Arbor is as busy as it is (busiest in Michigan). People living in West Oakland County can either drive a bit west to AA to catch a train to Chicago, or drive a bit east...much earlier. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1736
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
AA is busy because it is a major college town. Also, AA supports transit, so the train has a fairly high ridership from there. |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1976
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:42 pm: | |
I didn't say that was the only reason that AA was a busy station. I'm aware of all the others reasons that it is busy...many of them are reasons that I used it when I lived there. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1737
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 12:44 pm: | |
Actually a lot of northern Oakland County residents can drive to Flint and ride the Blue Water route, than drive to AA to catch the train. |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1977
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 2:06 pm: | |
Considering there are 3 times as many train departures in Ann Arbor, and that it is an extra hour on the train from Flint, I wouldn't expect way too many to do that...
But I'm sure it makes a lot more sense in the northern parts of the counties than in the Farmington/Novi/South Lyon parts of the county. |
Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner
Post Number: 1586
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 2:18 pm: | |
MARP's website suggests that those with the means in Southern Oakland go to the Dearborn Station.
http://www.marp.org/index.php? page=tips
Pay no attention to the somewhat dated pics! |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 115
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 8:04 pm: | |
Go back to my earlier post & look up the discount codes, the Weekly Special right now is top-heavy in Michigan routes-be sure to put in for a Guest Rewards card & all the sign-up bonuses; http://www.amtrakguestrewards. com/
Burnsie, oh for the love of Pete...I'm in a duel with a foamer & me without my Michigan Central timetable...Heck, here's a story from a legal paper how the federal speed limit AFTER railwork is 55 mph, and most municipalities seem to go with a 25 mph speed limit...which is way too slow for my taste;
http://www.lawyersweekly.com/r eprints/dbj1.htm
http://news.minnesota.publicra dio.org/features/2006/02/10_re hab_fasttrains/
http://www.merriam.org/PDFs/co des/chapter-22.pdf
and frankly it's depressing to see the lack of rail traffic we used to have, when you could drive down I-75 & see the names on all the trestles of the Class I railroads that used to operate here-if nothing's being made there's nothing to stick on a train. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5610
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 9:05 pm: | |
I wouldn't complain too much about Amtrak trains having to wait for freights. I remember how few freights were running and how small their consists were just a few years ago. I look upon the freights in SW Detroit as a barometer of economic activity in/near Detroit and the salvage industry.
Some salvage yards (e.g., Lafayette on Central) closed for a few years when the metal prices were low. Then, the Chinese were buying everything metal in sight. And, of course, scrappers are stealing whatever they can cart away... |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1980
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 9:11 pm: | |
LY,
It might not be a huge problem in Detroit, but it is a huge problem in Chicago. And the problems there cascade all the way into Michigan, making trains late in both directions. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5612
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 9:22 pm: | |
That freight congestion in Chicago would have killed the DIFT too, if the lack of eminent domain didn't come first. Norfolk Southern never really wanted theirs as they will eventually abandon Detroit to Chicago, and the Chessie gave up and applied the DIFT's option #4 and built their own smaller version: Do it yourself on your own property and dime.
It's faster to ship from Michigan to Chicago via tractor-trailer, and time is money. Firms cannot run JIT inventory systems if rail freight is the primary means of replenishment. Therefore, like it or not, manufacturers will choose not to depend on rail freight with today's modern inventory systems. |
Busterwmu
Member
Username: Busterwmu
Post Number: 448
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:03 pm: | |
Kalamazoo has a speed limit set for trains within the city limits to 40mph. This really only applies to Amtraks, however, as all the freight trains either stop in the yard, cross the interlocking, or are taking the wye and have to do 10mph.
FlyingJ, I also remember when you could drive on 75 and see nameboards for New York Central, Norfolk and Western and Grand Trunk. If you know where to go, you can still find some C&O doughnuts and a Michigan Central or two, not to mention GT blue logos which the Trunk was applying till the early 90s I think.
Between Chicago (Porter) and Detroit are a few problem spots too. The worst is at Battle Creek where the NS/Amtrak join the CN alignment for a few miles. That CN line is pretty busy, and CN's dispatchers are notorious for holding Amtraks for freights... sometimes EMPTY freights, at that! Another trouble spot is at Wayne where the NS crosses the CSX. Jackson and Kalamazoo also have their moments, but the track configuration and one-freight-railroad status make it a bit better. |
D2dyeah
Member
Username: D2dyeah
Post Number: 106
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:56 pm: | |
My Grandparents lived on Military, one block east of Livernois, and their house was near the bridge that crossed Military. As kids in the 50's, we used to wonder why the passenger trains stopped right by our Grandmas house. We used to wave to the people in the cars, and on the back platform as they waited for the train to move. This thread has answered those questions. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1755
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 11:30 am: | |
quote:Kalamazoo has a speed limit set for trains within the city limits to 40mph.
You sure? I could swear that back in my WMU days, I paced an Amtrak train on Stadium at 50-55ish. Outside downtown, there really aren't too many crossings...Howard, Drake, 11th St, and then it's all rural outside that. But my memory might be lacking. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5621
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 11:53 am: | |
Back around 1950, West Detroit's tower (just east of Junction) probably controlled the busiest interlocker in Michigan. However, the slow-speed curve would not have directly mattered because the passenger train was heading to the MCT--a straight shot. That area was loaded with slip and half-slip switches that enabled a multitude of switching possibilities in such a small area as West Detroit.
However, there were also quite a few control points between Livernois Yard and the MCT: CP-West Detroit, CP-Scotten, CP-Bay City Junction, 20th Street, and 15th Street. Waiting for traffic to clear would seem par for the course back then.
(Message edited by livernoisyard on March 26, 2008) |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 12:03 pm: | |
Great map, LY, thanks for that link. Must have been humming back then. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5622
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 12:12 pm: | |
That map is an abridged version of what it was during 1950 because it lists Amtrak--making it post 1971. Many of those earlier tracks were probably already gone as a result of early rationalization (abandonment) before then and those later major ones of the 1970s and 1980s. |
Rooms222
Member
Username: Rooms222
Post Number: 97
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 12:53 pm: | |
>>>Kalamazoo has a speed limit set for trains within the city limits to 40mph.
Even if they have passed an ordinance, it is probably preempted by Federal law. This often applies to local attempts to regulate transportation. NY's "Passenger Bill of Rights" was just overturned by a Federal Court for this very reason. |
New threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.