  Jeduncan Member Username: Jeduncan Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2006 |
Does DET still have public flights available? I noticed that they don't have any listings on orbitz or anything like that. | ||
Flybydon Member Username: Flybydon Post Number: 212 Registered: 01-2005 |
Nope. No commercial flights. Fact is Detroit City Airport (Colman A. Young International) is a Ghost town. General Aviation and Corporate tenants are leaving in droves. All claim that ongoing poor management and service are the reasons. Myself being a tenant flying out of KDET for over twenty years I’ve seen the steady decline due only to management. These people have no idea of how to run or operate an airport. To bad, it has such potential. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 353 Registered: 03-2005 |
Can the city sell the airport, or transfer it to an entity that gives a shit? (ie Zoo, Historical Museum, Eastern Market, Campus Martius, Riverfront) | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 43 Registered: 01-2008 |
Close it down, dig it up,and make it a park with Connor's Creek once again flowing through it. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 159 Registered: 02-2007 |
^^^Sounds like a solid idea^^^ | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1095 Registered: 06-2004 |
Another glaring example of how managerial incompetence is crippling the city. That airport has huge potential. It could drive a gigantic revival. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1776 Registered: 09-2007 |
"^^^Sounds like a solid idea^^^" lol Cub. You crack me up!  | ||
Jeduncan Member Username: Jeduncan Post Number: 194 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yeah. i flew into midway chicago yesterday and people kept on telling me "it's in the ghetto! It's a bad area" but even their "bad area" didn't seem to be all that terrifying. While I was walking around in there I was thinking to myself how awesome it could be if detroit actually gave a damn about their airport. If people land there, guess what? Their money lands with them. Where's the rocket science? | ||
One_shot Member Username: One_shot Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2003 |
Didn't southwest fly out of there a few years ago? | ||
Wschnitt Member Username: Wschnitt Post Number: 70 Registered: 07-2007 |
Southwest had double the flights from City that it currently has out of metro and they wanted to add more. CAY would not extend the runways for them so they left the airport all together. | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 289 Registered: 05-2007 |
ProAir had a promising business out of City until the FAA put them out of busines due to shoddy maintenance. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 1564 Registered: 11-2003 |
Didnt CAY try to extend the runways, but ran into trouble with the cemetary? Didnt KK mention in the State of the City that they were looking to work on expansion of the airport (via French?)? | ||
Popcanman55 Member Username: Popcanman55 Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2006 |
Proair didn't go out of business because of shoddy maintenance. It was shoddy leadership. Heavy maintenance was done by delta. But proair never paid and delta sued them. Then Proair failed to pay the lease on their air buses and they were sued. They finally filed bankruptcy but it was to late and they went under. The city was buying up land behind the airport but hasen't done much in the last few years. I believe they were going to put in a diagonal runway. There was talk that they were going to start building new hangers at the airport but that still hasn't happened. There was also talk and some work done for Compuware to build a hanger there but that never happened either. I am not sure why as DCA is closer then other small airports and metro for corprate flights. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6583 Registered: 10-2003 |
Flybydon, same problem at Windsor Airport. It was recently taken over by the city, and no one in charge knows anything about aviation at all. | ||
Dbc Member Username: Dbc Post Number: 105 Registered: 09-2006 |
By the way, although there are very bad neighborhoods on the South Side of Chicago, the area immediately around Midway is ABSOLUTELY not "ghetto" or "bad." The airport is bordered by the Clearing and Garfield Ridge neighborhoods, which are quite safe and solidly blue collar, with sizable Polish and Latino populations. (The neighborhoods have a lot of bungalow-style homes reminiscent of Warrendale.) There is a housing project at Cicero Ave. just as you get off I-55 a couple miles from Midway, which probably makes people think they're in the "ghetto" because it's the first thing you see after exiting the expressway from the suburbs. Also, you may have to - depending on where you start - drive through some very rough areas of the South Side on your way to Midway and Clearing/Garfield Ridge. I would compare people who say Midway is in the "ghetto" to people who think the entire City of Detroit is a pit or ghetto. As for City Airport, it's a shame it's losing business. I flew ProAir out of there once, but it went under before I next flew home to Detroit. Kind of scary about ProAir's maintenance issues, but then again, look at Southwest's current problems. Maybe City Airport is hexed? (Message edited by dbc on March 14, 2008) | ||
Kirkwood Member Username: Kirkwood Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2008 |
you know folks, Eastern Michigan University has a great aviation program. All the students are required to spend some 600hours working in the field in order to graduate. | ||
Kirkwood Member Username: Kirkwood Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2008 |
Hey flybydon- whats the story with AOPA? i once met a lawyer working as the volunteer. What seems to be the biggest problem there for GA? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2391 Registered: 10-2006 |
East_detroit, there was this article in the Detroit News back a few months ago: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/artikkel?Dato=20071210& Kategori=METRO01&Lopenr=712100 353&Ref=AR&Show=0&imw=Y At the slow rate that the city is buying up the nearby homes, it looks as though an expansion would be a hundred years or so from now. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6480 Registered: 08-2004 |
It's not a matter of CAY not extending runways... 1) he didn't have the resources that would have involved razing the area from the airport all the way up to 7 Mile & Van Dyke (diagonally, away from Mt. Olivet Cemetary). 2) he had a lot of folks against an airport expansion. The politicans in the Grosse Pointes and south Macomb County were up in arms against it. I also believe that a small plane crashed into a house in Warren prior to the expansion plans. It added fuel to the fire. The only legacy leftover from the expansion plans is that McNichols (6 Mile) is still closed off north of the airport. That really hurt a lot of businesses in the area, since it literally cuts the east side of Detroit from Hamtramck and north central Detroit. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6191 Registered: 11-2003 |
Flights from MDW to DTW take 28 minutes. flying in and out of Midway Airport is a pleasure. Orange Line Elevated train service runs day and night. Where in the world can you take a train to two major airports in one city like MDW-ORD? Yes, Detroit has a long way to grow. All manner of legacy resources are being pissed away in Detroit. jjaba, who has flown out of Detroit City, Wayne Major Metro, and Willow Run. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1779 Registered: 09-2007 |
"Maybe City Airport is hexed?" Maybe Detroit is hexed? | ||
Single_malt Member Username: Single_malt Post Number: 20 Registered: 02-2008 |
I remember flying Southwest out City many times going to Chicago. Also, didn't they open it up for public flights for the Super Bowl? | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 516 Registered: 01-2007 |
I heard that the demise of City Airport was due to a horrific plane crash. The plane missed the poorly lit runway (City of Detroit Lighting, ya know) and crashed into the cemetary. City of Detroit officials discovered thousands of dead bodies. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 7289 Registered: 11-2004 |
I loved the cheap flights that Southwest had going to Chicago. We used to go there for lunch, shopping, dinner and come back home before night fall. It was almost like an easy commute. Alas, no more. | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 272 Registered: 11-2005 |
DET had/has huge potential--but we're getting to the point that the scale is tipping in the down direction--in fact, if the biz and GA traffic is leaving now (I had no idea)--the downward spiral will only accelerate. With advances in engine technology, reasonably large aircraft could come in/out of there without too much disruption to neighboring and nearby communities. Even the 737-400s ProAir had were fairly quiet. When SWA was around they were still mostly flying 737-200 "Thunder Guppy"s in--those things shook the dishes on takeoff. Anyway--competition from DTW aside--if you look at the traffic that goes to FNT and TOL--DET could easily carve out a little niche for itself if someone actually cared/knew what they were doing/had money. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6585 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Berlin? Schonefeld (being rebulit as BBI - Brelin Breandenburg International) is the former East German Berlin Airport and is accesible by the S-Bahn. Tempelhof, which is still open, though due to close when BBI is finished is accesible by train as well. | ||
Flybydon Member Username: Flybydon Post Number: 213 Registered: 01-2005 |
Eastsiderules: “Close it down, dig it up,and make it a park with Connor's Creek once again flowing through it.” The COD has many parks it can’t take care of now. Examples: Belle Isle, Palmer Park and Rouge Park. Question to you East: How would a new park at City Airport bring us prosperity considering the infrastructure for an airport is already there. Why not make the best of what we have? Aiw: “same problem at Windsor Airport. It was recently taken over by the city, and no one in charge knows anything about aviation at all.” Unfortunately many cities have tried this and failed. They pay back favors to campaign cronies thinking it’s an easy job…but soon find out it takes people from aviation backgrounds to understand the needs of it’s clients. Kirkwood: “whats the story with AOPA? i once met a lawyer working as the volunteer. What seems to be the biggest problem there for GA?” The AOPA volunteer reprehensive is Euel Kinsey, he and I both agree the problem lies in poor management. An old airport slogan “ Detroit City Airport , Detroit’s Eastside Jewel” Well this jewel “Colman A. Young International” is not shining much now. Links” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C oleman_A._Young_International_ Airport http://goodspeedupdate.com/200 6/2033 http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20071210/M ETRO01/712100353 http://community.detnews.com/b logs/index.php/neighborhood/20 07/12/09/city_err_port http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f ullpage.html?res=940DE0DC153EF 933A05750C0A96E948260 | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 1091 Registered: 11-2004 |
The state really needs to transfer management from the city to the Wayne County Airport Authority. Metro and Willow Run have seen better management since they no longer are completely run by McNamara cronies. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 7300 Registered: 11-2004 |
Not a bad idea at all Eric. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2578 Registered: 07-2004 |
A real coup would be if City airport could extend all the way to Van Dyke and Harper, which was one of the expansion plans planned by Mayor Young. A runway from McNichols to Harper, parallel to Van Dyke, would provide more than enough room for a longer runway. Also, the city could clear out some of the worst looking neighborhoods in the city. Well, that's my wish. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6587 Registered: 10-2003 |
Don tell me about it. A high school buddy of Windsor's Mayor is "in charge" now. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 177 Registered: 02-2007 |
Why not just fix up the neighborhoods? Royce. | ||
River_rat Member Username: River_rat Post Number: 333 Registered: 02-2006 |
Stop even thinking about CAY International Airport, it will never happen. It is done and gone; as stated earlier in the thread the corporate and private tenants are bailing out as they can. The reason -- services -- they are so poorly run it is an embarrassment. I flew my corporate plane in there for the Grand Prix and finally bailed out to DTW. Another failure of Detroit politics. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6197 Registered: 11-2003 |
AIW, your Berlin connections are weaker than a third cup of Chinese Oolong tea. Yours has too many qualifiers to be realistic. Many cities have wonderful light rail to airports. Some real examples are Amsterdam, Rome, Portland, San Francisco, Chicago, Atlanta, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Newark, JFK New York, Boston, Burbank, and Washington, DC. Now AIW, top this. In Portland, Oregon, a senior citizen rides from PDX by rail into a 3-county system for 85 cents, USD. That's light rail, streetcars, or buses for 85 cents. Adults pay $2.05. What's Canada got? jjaba on the Westside. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 6588 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jabba - you ask for cities that have TWO airport connected by rail. | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 46 Registered: 01-2008 |
Question to you East: How would a new park at City Airport bring us prosperity considering the infrastructure for an airport is already there. Why not make the best of what we have? What fucking infrastructure? A decrepit terminal, small plane hangars that are falling apart and shitloads of concrete. Granted, the original hangar/terminal(site of the Playboy party during the Super Bowl) is a cool building, but other than that WHAT? I've watched the neighborhoods on both sides (off French and off Connor) fall into complete disrepair. Several airlines tried and failed because NO ONE wanted to leave their cars in that neighborhood. Plus, those who live in the flight paths do NOT want jets flying overhead.(including neighbors of the airport; who are mostly black) I can remember walking my dog in Mount Olivet as a Southwest Jet took off and the noise was deafening.(btw I walk his successor there weekends. Look for a tall white guy with a Siberian Husky) I can also remember car alarms going off at the apartments near Six mile (McNichols) and Connor during take-offs. Prosperity comes from rebuilding the neighborhoods and the ensuing tax base that it would generate, not from some fuck-ass airport. Want an airport? Selfridge ANB already has sufficient runways.Better yet, expand one of the corporate airports in Oakland County. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 181 Registered: 02-2007 |
So you walk your dogs in a cemetery? NO RESPECT! But I agree with your post about the airport. | ||
Ffdfd Member Username: Ffdfd Post Number: 271 Registered: 09-2006 |
The firehouse at the airport (Engine 20), which has specialized airport crash apparatus, is one of the companies that gets closed some days, so that might be an indication of how important the city feels the airport is. | ||
Kirkwood Member Username: Kirkwood Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2008 |
flybydon - thanks for the reply. eastsiderules-there exists a place to land an aircraft. the faa justifys a tower. noise ought to be at the low end of concerns. airports bring significant growth to economies. Management is key, funding, vision, and attracting business. Eric- WCAA has its hands full with KYIP. I would contend that there are some very talented people working at DTW that could offer amazing leadership to the airport. I wish i knew more about the airport- what type of folks within the city government might be willing to stick there neck out and take advantage of KKs weakness now and get some new leadership in there. If the consensus is leadership - why not go after KK now while he might be trying to avoid more fights. Does Ken Cockerel understand the management disfunction? Dont ever concede to an airport closure. It would be a huge loss and Detroit would never see an airport again. Why let Oakland County take your business Detroiters? | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 47 Registered: 01-2008 |
So you walk your dogs in a cemetery? NO RESPECT! He neither urinates nor defecates in the cemetery. We don't walk on the graves but I walk on the asphalt roadway and he walks on the grass adjacent to the curb. | ||
Jrvass Member Username: Jrvass Post Number: 529 Registered: 01-2007 |
And I'll bet you & your dog are the only visitors in the cemetary 90% of the time. | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 48 Registered: 01-2008 |
And I'll bet you & your dog are the only visitors in the cemetary 90% of the time. Jrvass, Sad but true. | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 49 Registered: 01-2008 |
It is a nice walk through Detroit's past though. | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 51 Registered: 01-2008 |
noise ought to be at the low end of concerns. Yea, except if you live near the noise. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1488 Registered: 11-2003 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C oleman_A._Young_International_ Airport | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 184 Registered: 02-2007 |
So your dog is cemetery trained? lol No big deal eastside. I saw on the news the other day that people were walking their pets in cemeteries and they showed the dogs urinating and defecating. Seems a little disrespectful to me. No matter if loved ones visit the graves or not. | ||
Eastsiderules Member Username: Eastsiderules Post Number: 52 Registered: 01-2008 |
Cub, The only place he goes is at home. It's weird. He won't go in the woods at Belle Isle. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 448 Registered: 12-2007 |
This was the first airport or air travel related thread I bothered to look for. Looks like trains might be making a comeback VERY soon. Someone start painting MCS. http://www.usatoday.com/travel /flights/2008-03-18-delta-seve rance_N.htm and... http://www.treehugger.com/file s/2008/03/airlines-cut-flights -save-fuel.php | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5556 Registered: 10-2004 |
The railroads peaked in Michigan (and most eveywhere else) in 1909 or 1910 and have been going downhill since then. The vast majority of their marshalling yards have permanently closed; the railroads are still closing yards and abandoning tracks. Whatever gave D_mcc an inkling of a hope that trains will be making a comeback at all? As far aspassenger service is concerned, there are not anywhere near enough rolling stock to handle an appreciable share of what now goes by air. Just how would any significant number of extra riders expect to go by rail? And the current routes don't go many places. The vast area of the US isn't connected by rail any longer. Not even for freight. Today's new plants often have zero rail access and wouldn't use it if they had. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 453 Registered: 12-2007 |
No LY, but if we were to seriously invest in efficient systems such as those in Europe and Japan, we might see a drastic change in philosophy. That's what its all about anyways, americans have an impatient mentality no matter the cost, but as the cost keeps going up to do all those things we once took for granted, perhaps there will be a significant shift in the thought processes of every day americans. But then again, if all people think like you, nothing will ever change and people will shell out 400 bucks for a flight to chicago. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2189 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have an old black and white photo taken during WW II that shows the old (water?) tank located in the middle of the field. Anyone recall that old tank? Seems to me it was a red and white checkered tank. Did it hold water, fuel? My uncle's B-26 twin -engined bomber is shown in the background. He was fogged in at Selfridge so he landed at City on a training sortie from Chicago. | ||
Kirkwood Member Username: Kirkwood Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2008 |
the rock- get that photo up on here. | ||
Flybydon Member Username: Flybydon Post Number: 214 Registered: 01-2005 |
http://www.aerialpics.com/D/Ci tyAirport.html | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2191 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kirkwood- My old black/white photo showing the tower and Uncle Hank's aluminum-skinned WWII bomber won't pick up very well to post here. How my Mom was able to take that photo of his plane during war -time shows that the security then is not what it is now.Today, they would probably confiscate her old Kodak bellows camera. Anyway, flybydon has now captured the moment in his neat photos that not only show the old checkered tower, but I believe also show a rare Boeing 247 (PCA), considered the first modern airliner. Not many of those birds around any more, which were soon upstaged by Mr. Douglas and his DC 2. |
