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DetroitYES' (unofficial) response to the Hubbard Farms op-ed...Sean_of_detroit04-03-08  9:59 pm
Archive through March 13, 2008Bragaboutme30 03-13-08  6:07 pm
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Ferntruth
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Username: Ferntruth

Post Number: 388
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"If your going to vent do it somewhere else, but as for trying to bring attention to problems in your neighborhood along with complaints bring solutions"

"For her to do it in the newspaper and not offer solutions, meant she was venting."


What are you smoking? This is NOT a person who sat around and complained about her neighborhood. This is a person who was dedicated to the city, tried to find solutions - sadly unsuccessfully.
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Johnlodge
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Post Number: 5605
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Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I commend Rawk and this woman and the other residents of Hubbard Farms for what they've worked so hard for. I've kept my eyes on this neighborhood for some time. All they are asking for is that the city lives up to THEIR responsibilities as well, so they aren't fighting alone.

Those who question their dedication should browse their online forum.

http://hubbardfarms.informe.co m/
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 1096
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Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's all so tragic. A competent city government and police force would revolutionize life in Detroit over night.
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Putnam
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Username: Putnam

Post Number: 106
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She just scratched the surface. When I moved to this neighborhood in 1998 (my wife was born and raised at Lane and Springwells), the Western YMCA on Clark was a bustling, integrated gathering place. There we all witnessed shared stakes in the community. It promoted well-being. Now it sits abandoned, overgrown with weeds, menacing Clark Park with smashed out windows and graffiti.

A house on Hubbard and Lafayette sits vacant now for over a decade. Recent blight proceedings against the owner (who resides not in the city) were inexplicably dismissed. Meanwhile, a neighbor on Scotten and Bagley was hounded by bureaucrats FOR repairing his house! (Apparently his modest, careful improvements were interpreted to be at odds with historical standards.)

Let's see: punishment for resourceful resident homeowners; impunity for absentee blight mongers. To the casual observer this might seem like evidence of misplaced priorities.

As a neighbor I will be sad to see Theresa leave. My community will be hurt by this new vacancy.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4853
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Putnam!
While the departure of the neighbor is a loss, I can't help but feel that Theresa is a lightweight. Of course, she is hardly the first to tire of the battles.

The neighborhood was far worse off in the early nineties at the end of the Coleman Young admin when I bought my first house (for the sum of 500 bucks, cash) across from Putnam.
Alas, for every two steps forward, there has always been one step back.
Theresa missed out on:
The crack drive through supermarket on Vinewood (building closed and boarded by HF neighbors in '91 and since demoed)
The triple crack dealer murder/fire at the apt bldg on Hubbard (bldg now restored and operated by SW Solutions)
The serial arsonist who plagued the neighborhood in the summer of 1994.

The abandoned house/gang hangout on Porter just east of Crack Towers Apts (one restored by private owner, another by SW Solutions)
Three slumlord owned crack infested apt bldgs on W. Grand Blvd, (one now privately owned, the other two restored by SW Solutions)
The hillbilly family on Bagley who kept their yard full of junk cars and their porch full of gang-banger punks, (house burned down by divine forces of karma, 1994)
and the slumlords who plagued the neighborhood for decades (gone, all of them, largely due to the efforts of activist neighbors )

Hubbard Farms has always been blessed with wonderful, dedicated neighbors, many of whom have been there for generations, and while some of us move on (as I did) the neighborhood will always be a quality place to live, despite the inept frat boy administrations that plague not just our city but our nation. I salute those who stay and fight, but I understand that for some of us, priorities change.
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Evelyn
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Post Number: 174
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I sympathize with the column writer, and that's a bit depressing. I left Detroit as well, and I still have mixed feelings about leaving. On one hand, I think that Detroit has great promise and potential. On the other, the challenges and problems the city has are so overwhelming. I wish more people could find a balance between working to improve the city, and expecting things to change right away. As much as Detroit inspires some to fight for something better, it also burns people out.
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Putnam
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Post Number: 107
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks as always for the perspective Barnesfoto.

Are you looking for a ghostwriter? I'm serious. I love the stories. I say you have a duty to share them. Obviously illustrations won't be in short supply.

I guess I was caught up in the whole 'expect excellence' thing (which I hope isn't just rhetorical judo -- Detroit's "Mission Accomplished.")

It's true. We haven't been awakened by a burning building since 2000 (Vinewood and Vernor.) There were several clustered in those first three years.

There has been so much positive media lately, especially regarding this neighborhood, that I think Theresa's rant is timely and useful, besides being obviously genuine. She's not a martyr, just fed up.
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Barnesfoto
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Post Number: 4856
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stories? I forgot some stories...
Late 80's: The guy on WGB (you know, the guy who used to be somewhat civil but eventually stopped bathing) who found a body under a mattress next to his house (tossed there by the lowlifes at the drug house that used to be on WGB/Bagley before (again) the neighbors closed and boarded it...

The abandoned bldg on Porter/Vinewood, torn down quickly after I sent Dennis Archer a postcard pic of schoolkids walking by it...

The open-air drug bazaar that used to be the front part of Clark Park..(gone because of the efforts of involved neighbors)...
The Carnival Bar (drinks specials for convicted felons at all times) closed after years of efforts by involved neighbors...

Let's see, how many times have I used the word "neighbors" in my posts? That's the part that made it a good place to live.

I never met Miss T, but I do remember that she sent out a hysterical rant when some plants were snatched off her porch. While I don't condone plant snatching, I found her tone so annoying that I considered driving over there, stealing the rest of her plants, plucking a leaf off each one, and sending her a ransom note saying :
"If you want to see your green leafy friends again, leave an envelope with 20 dollars taped to the bottom of the restroom sink at Taqueria Tapatio and don't send out hysterical emails about plant theft anymore!"
But I didn't.
Summer will soon be here and I will try to find time to visit my favorite neighbor in my favorite old neighborhood and have a glass of my favorite wine, which is, of course, Putnam's wine.
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Putnam
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Post Number: 108
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2008 - 10:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I never met Miss T, but I do remember that she sent out a hysterical rant when some plants were snatched off her porch. While I don't condone plant snatching, I found her tone so annoying that I considered driving over there, stealing the rest of her plants, plucking a leaf off each one, and sending her a ransom note saying :
"If you want to see your green leafy friends again, leave an envelope with 20 dollars taped to the bottom of the restroom sink at Taqueria Tapatio and don't send out hysterical emails about plant theft anymore!"



LOL

Motor City Brewery. Come for pizza.
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Jenniferl
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Username: Jenniferl

Post Number: 428
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chub,
I've been on this forum for many years and I remember your posts about buying your house. I don't remember what street you were on, but it was off Woodward, south of Highland Park, right? I'm sad to hear that it didn't work out for you but I'm glad you are enjoying life in LA. I would love to leave the Detroit area and move overseas but I have family committments keeping me here.
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Chub
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Post Number: 499
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 3:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, good memory Jenniferl! The house I believe you're referring to was on Lawrence. I didn't end up buying that one. Instead I bought a fixer upper on Atkinson. I miss my house and great friends, but not much else. Oh, I do miss Slows BBQ and Eph McNallys.
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Themax
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Username: Themax

Post Number: 860
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 6:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So we've all commiserated with this person. Now that we've played the game "Ain't that Awful", what are some actions people can take to change this situation? Should we just wait until the right people get elected?
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Putnam
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Post Number: 109
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those are your terms. Not the author's.

The column was fairly easy to read. Let's review. This is what Theresa was doing:

quote:

... picking up trash, organizing group cleanups, volunteering at local charities, calling city departments to report criminal and nuisance activities, attending meetings with local police, writing letters, sending e-mails and filing petitions.



I can only verify her claims.

And then there are the institutional efforts, mentioned in the op-ed, led in her neighborhood by Clark Park Coalition, Bagley Housing Association and Mexicantown Community Development Corp.

What next? What's missing?

She did a good job of making the case for holding The City of Detroit responsible. Let me consult my old civics textbook.

Vote. Assemble. Petition. And as Barnesfoto so eloquently stated, don't expect immediate results.

(Message edited by putnam on March 15, 2008)
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Al_t_publican
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Username: Al_t_publican

Post Number: 212
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know if anyone on this thread cited the "citizen factor" in Detroit's demise as I haven't read all of the posts, but it is a factor. Beside the crime rate, the lack of a home grown "small business class" in Detroit is a significant factor in many Detroiters not having a vested interest in the quality of life in the city and their neighborhoods. Per capita businesses owned and operated in Detroit by Detroiters must be at or near the bottom nation-wide.

City government is, of course, a factor in Detroit's status. A recent list showing the ratio of citizens to city employees shows again that City of Detroit is too big of an employer. Los Angeles has a ratio of something like 1 city employee for every 103 residents while in Detroit it 1 employee for every citizen.

What does Detroit have, something 15,000 city employees? How much has that dropped in the last ten to twenty years with the city's drop in population?

Combine the big city payroll with the hang out/party culture of the city and you don't have much of a basis for a functioning modern city.

Signed, a native born, five decades plus resident, and retired City of Detroit employee.
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Themax
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Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Al_t_Publican wrote:Los Angeles has a ratio of something like 1 city employee for every 103 residents while in Detroit it 1 employee for every citizen. What does Detroit have, something 15,000 city employees?



Detroit only has 15,000 people now? That's a mighty big drop from over 900,000 in 2006.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 720
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the majority of the people in your city are beaten down or don't give a crap (for whatever reason), you get people (who do care) leave because they get tired of trying to pick up the slack. Mix in a screwed up local government, a over whelmed police force, crummy schools and you have no reason to stay unless you are a masochist.
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Whittier70
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Username: Whittier70

Post Number: 79
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote "Collins used the term "slave master."

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20080316/COL01/8 03160589/1001/NEWS


don't forget collins calling white people slave master. Makes y'all feel unwanted here doesn't it!
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 4859
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those of us who live or lived in Detroit long ago learned to ignore the race baiting of Barbara Rose...Look at the positive: Detroit Residency allows you to vote against her, she's overweight and probably has high blood pressure; with a bit of luck she'll be dead before christmas
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Paulmcall
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Post Number: 740
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about the rest of city council?
I'd say at least half or more has to go.
If the residents really cared, they'd be out in the streets fighting for better government. They've been beaten down so much they have given up or don't expect anything else.
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Barnesfoto
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Post Number: 4861
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For most of my life, I've been embarrassed by most of the people that run the city of Detroit. Before there were buffoons like Barbara Rose, there were buffoons like Donald Lobsinger, and before him there were people like Charles Bowles:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi- bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=700747 9

For most of my life I've also been embarrassed by many of the people that run the United States of America.

"If the residents really cared, they'd be out in the streets fighting for better government"

That applies nationally too. We're at the five year anniversary of the Iraq Fiasco. How many people were out in the streets fighting for better government this weekend?
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Neilr
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Barnesfoto, I agree that Donald Lobsinger (and I haven't thought of that wingnut in years) was perhaps the biggest buffoon of them all; but he wasn't anything more than a low-level employee in the Recreation Department. Alonzo Bates was his supervisor, IIRC.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 1092
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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

City government is, of course, a factor in Detroit's status. A recent list showing the ratio of citizens to city employees shows again that City of Detroit is too big of an employer. Los Angeles has a ratio of something like 1 city employee for every 103 residents while in Detroit it 1 employee for every citizen.

What does Detroit have, something 15,000 city employees? How much has that dropped in the last ten to twenty years with the city's drop in population?




It's not just that city has too many employees, but the ones we do have aren't where we need them. Most notably emergency services, but there are other areas too just this week there was a story on how the city paid out a couple hundred thousand dollars in interest, because it didn't have enough employees to process income tax refunds.

Though not completely the city's fault, because the transit is a regional failure, the city must employ 1,500 people at DDOT that is nearly $200 million the city has to spend it shouldn't have to. But many areas like trash collection, the airport and public lighting could've been privatized years ago. Besides overly strong union influence, too many in this city's government feel that if every single aspect of an operation isn't run or staffed completely by Detroiters then it's no benefit to the city.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This council has not been its normal dysfunctional self so far, with the exception of a few outbursts. The Cockrells, Kenyatta and Watson are people I am glad are serving on council. I don't really have an opinion on Jones or Tinsley-Talabia. Conyers, Reeves and Collins need to go. Considering the clowncils of the past, this is quite an improvement. Actually, one can make an argument that they have been doing a better job as a legislative body than congress and the state legislature.
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

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Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"wish she was my neighbor because it is clear that she understands how important community-mindedness can be to improving the quality of life in a neighborhood. "

Come to Hubbard Farms, Swingline. There are many of us here.

Maybe you just had to know her, but she was an active community member. Streetlights went out and she was on the phone right away. In Detroit, that kind of neighbor is hard to find. Granted, her living across from the Hotel Yorba was certainly motivation to go in and of itself.
There is a lot of outrage over this piece on the HF community listserv. She certainly paints the neighborhood to be a lot worse off than it is, but at the same time, everything she says is true. That said, even if they are true, the problems - such as streetlights and abandonment - are far, far, far worse in other parts of the city.
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Raggedclaws
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Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 7:44 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^ How can she be painting the neighborhood worse off than it is and telling the truth at the same time ?

What she describes is either true or it isn't.

For people living in those (as she describes) conditions the problem isn't usually viewed in relative degrees. When one can't get basic city services in their 'hood and feels that their quality of life is affected by that, they aren't going to stop to consider the relativity of it all...Rhymeswithrawk are you suggesting that broken streetlights, abandonment, etc should be tolerated because they're worse in other areas of Detroit ?
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Al_t_publican
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Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Memo to Themax: My typo should have read 1 city employee for every 50 Detroit residents. That was from a recent LA Times article that listed the city employee to residen ratio. LA has something like 1 city employee for every 103 residents.

Detroit's police and firefighter to citizen ratio is also higher than most big cities. Here in San Diego the city has around 2200 cops and 900 firefighters. When I left Detroit in 2003, Detroit had around 3500 cops and 1200 firefighters. Of course, the numbers do not tell the whole story. San Diego has around 60 homicides per year with a population of 1.3M and far fewer hours of fire service than Detroit.

Different social dynamics between here and my birthplace.
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Markopolo
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I reluctantly agree with Theresa Hurst’s wonderfully written and accurate op-ed piece. I understand her frustrations and wish her well as she leaves my city behind. But I am a native Detroiter, with roots going back to the 1870s. Yes, the 1870s when my great-grandfather immigrated to Detroit from Canada with his wife and two sons, the oldest of them would become my grandfather. And my memories of growing up in the 1950s and coming of age in the 60s are wonderful. I remember not locking our doors and even leaving them open along with the windows during hot summer nights so any breeze available could flow through the screen doors and windows before everything was air conditioned. We didn’t even lock our cars until the mid-1960s. As a kid I remember playing outside in the daytime on Chalmers south of Jefferson in the summertime in the shade of the trees that arched over our street forming a tunnel-like atmosphere and sitting on my porch on warm nights with my friends without any fear of a drive-by shooting or anything else for that matter. We could walk up on Jefferson and have tuna sandwiches and cream puff hot fudge sundaes at Sanders. Next door was the dime store where Duncan Yo-Yo would hold periodic contests and the winners would get “Diamond-Studded” yo-yos- as prizes. We could take our bikes to Bill’s Bike Shop to have them fixed and buy model airplanes at Harry’s Hobby Shop. There were three movie houses in walking distance from my house. The closest was the Lakewood, a little farther west was the Cinderella and to the east the Esquire. It was a wonderful time that I will never forget. I don’t go down to the old neighborhood anymore. It is just too depressing to see my old house and so many vacant lots where the homes of my childhood friends once stood. Obviously, the Detroit of today is not the city of my youth. My older brother and I are the only ones left. Our kids refuse to live in the city. At least I’m lucky in one respect. My daughter and her husband still live in Michigan, but my brother’s children all live on the east coast so he doesn’t see his kids and grandchildren as often as I see my daughter and grandson. But I’ll stay without any illusions that this town will ever be the same again in my lifetime. I’ll stay because I love this old town with all its warts, but I’ll be careful.
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Hockey_guy
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow. Thanks for that Markopolo.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Username: Sean_of_detroit

Post Number: 29
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Markopolo, I really liked that post. I'm just trying to give a different perspective by posting the following.

My grandparents never moved out of Detroit. I was born in Dearborn and spent some of my childhood in Westland. When I was five we moved to Livonia, as my parents determined that the neighborhood in Westland was going "downhill". My parents did ok I guess and seemed happy. I remember being taken to Livonia Mall around every Thanksgiving after the parade down Middlebelt. All the local business' and high schools would make big floats and balloons, and the kids could all go see Santa and get free hot chocolate.

The Cable Company (then independently owned/franchised Metrovision) would also set up a little studio in their office building, and the kids would get to be on T.V. with Santa. I also remember going to Bill Knapp’s every birthday for free rich and moist chocolate cake. Going to eat in the new food court at Wonderland Mall was nice to. Back then we didn't have to have a security guard unlock the dressing rooms for us, and the metal detectors by the door were turnstiles instead (to count customers?). Oh, and how could I forget the old animatronic cowboy game in Chi Chi's Restaurant on Middlebelt and Jeffries?

Every one of those places is closed or radically changed, the parade has dissolved, and Metrovision turned into the corporate owned Time Warner, and now Comcast or Brighthouse. We never locked our doors or windows in the summer either, something that west suburbanites rarely do today. It's a trend that seems to be continuing. When I went and visited my Mom for Easter I passed at least three boarded up homes (she doesn't live far of the freeway, so that was kind of bad).

I think a big part of nostalgia isn't real. In reality my parents weren’t well off, they fought to the point of screaming at each other until they eventually got divorced (from what my siblings say). Chi Chi's closed because they kept giving out bad service and food poisoning (No, I don't want a free dinner, I just spent the night in the E.R. from your chicken chimi). But for some reason, I can't clearly remember that stuff, weird.

I decided a while ago, that the answer to this problem must be somewhere in the source, and the source (for our region) was Detroit. It just seems to me that all those people running, are running from a ghost that is tied to a stick, and that stick is tied to the back of their jackets. It's funny and sad at the same time, because those parents who wallow in nostalgia could have saved it, but instead let history repeat.

My grandpa never moved out of Detroit. He was one of those people who tried to tell everyone that you can't run from these sorts of problems. And that’s just it. You have to keep fighting, because you can't outrun this one. If you don't handle it, someone else has to, maybe not your kids, but maybe your kids future best friend, wife, or husband. And you can leave the state, but be sure that a new problem to run from will arise. Our local government is somewhat corrupt, but it is changing. It was designed to be slow for a reason. I know it's like a big bolder, that you just get tired of pushing. But you must keep pushing... or not. You can always give up and leave it where it stands. Just know that it does have its place, and unlike the pretty new stuff we got for the super bowl, it doesn't always show itself. Things are coming together though, as long as we keep at it. Kwame wasn't the reason I joined this fight, it was the dedicated people who have been working at this stuff for decades. I know there are at least some people out there like me who feel the same way (we got Quicken!).

Some of you guys really don't know how much of a difference you are making. Inspiration can be a key to the freedom of others.

Wow, this really is a weird post.

And btw, I never locked my apartment door for three years when I lived in Park Apartments downtown, and never had a problem. Maybe it was luck? Ignorance is bliss.

Grammer and tone edit.

(Message edited by Sean_Of_Detroit on March 25, 2008)
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Rfban
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very nice Sean, very nice...
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Upinthewoods
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Post Number: 32
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The R.a.'s are flying around with fury this morning!
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J_to_the_jeremy
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sean, solid post. (that's putting it lightly.) I agree about the whole "ghost on a stick" situation.
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Sean_of_detroit
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks guys.

I wanted to give this topic a bump because there was an additional topic attached to this one above. I posted it in the connect section and it was moved here, so I don't think anyone saw it. I know those are all big, common problems, but any ideas or advice would be something.

So...

:::BUMP:::

And again, just to clarify, there are two topics under this thread. Sigh, I tried.

(Message edited by sean_of_detroit on April 04, 2008)
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Barnesfoto
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Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2008 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

good post Sean...your gramps had it right, love the "ghost on a stick" analogy...
Knowing that there are people like you taking care of the city makes me happy that I put my time in.
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Gannon
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Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cheers. Great stuff.
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Living_in_the_d
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Username: Living_in_the_d

Post Number: 155
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, April 04, 2008 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Well put Sean, and well said, I have unfortunately experienced some if not all the finer points of Your post. On the bright side, Me and Mrs. D have decided to make a difference in the D, one step at a time, Which I explain in detail in other posts, most notably, Paradise Lost in H.O.F.

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