Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Detroit "Brain Drain" Featured on MTV... « Previous Next »
Top of pageBottom of page

Vantanna
Member
Username: Vantanna

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let me Start my Saying' I am/was a True Detroit Loyalist/Nationalist. But this is why I had to go.. I feel like Jijaba now, missing my West Side.

http://think.mtv.com/044FDFFFF 00989EBD00170098D440/

www.cornerboyfilms.com
Top of pageBottom of page

Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 422
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you for posting this, I find it insightful. Not to mention, well shot. Unfortunately the issues you mention ring true, and will hinder Detroit from achieving its potential until this truth is accepted and dealt with.
Top of pageBottom of page

Crumbled_pavement
Member
Username: Crumbled_pavement

Post Number: 197
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very insightful video. In fact, I quite often agree with the sentiments expressed in that video.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 625
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yah, thank you for posting. Very truthful insight.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jeduncan
Member
Username: Jeduncan

Post Number: 184
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

very realistic. no sugarcoating.
Top of pageBottom of page

Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision

Post Number: 578
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mayors office needs to watch this. So does every single council member and deputy mayor.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3555
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2008 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

some things stated are incorrect or misrepresentative

Are there problems? Certainly, but some are willing to stay and try to solve them instead of expecting everything to be done by someone else.

the weather - we can't change that, so be honest about why you moved since you really "love" the city that much
Top of pageBottom of page

6nois
Member
Username: 6nois

Post Number: 661
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of it was good but I agree with Lilpup, I think the first video on Detroit was a truer picture to why I would leave, and its more for personal growth. Detroit is what it is, and it will continue to be what it is until we as residents and citizens, and as a region, take a stand to change it. And an FDR New Deal program for Detroit wouldn't hurt either.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tiorted
Member
Username: Tiorted

Post Number: 119
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

he sounds like someone looking to blame his problems on someone or something other than himself and the city of detroit is his scapegoat
Top of pageBottom of page

Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown

Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sounds like a reasonable man to me.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rel
Member
Username: Rel

Post Number: 203
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He isn't blaming his "problems" on anything. He seems genuinely conflicted on leaving the city he loves so much. He gave open, honest reasons why he left, and doesn't pretend to know the solution. So instead of criticizing him, maybe we should *listen* and learn what we can to retain residents (for example, young professionals like him) from leaving.
Top of pageBottom of page

Vantanna
Member
Username: Vantanna

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LP, I'll simply say this, I gave 36 years of my life to a city I believed in, The True Detroit, A place I do LOVE dearly. A place I stayed until it was time for ME to go.

Tell me what I stated that was Incorrect or Misrepresentative. What I stated is true for myself and the vast majority of residents. I was on Livernois & Davison

"Where in Detroit do you live?"

Everything I stated was honest & from the Heart, and frankly I don't need YOUR approval or permission to move, stay or do anything else. I don't even know where you "get off" commenting on my veracity. You don't know me or anything I've done. Respectfully, U sound like u don't truly know the city.

"It is What It Is, but What It Is Can Be Much Better."
Top of pageBottom of page

Rel
Member
Username: Rel

Post Number: 204
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lee,

No good deed goes unpunished :-)

Thank you for sharing your story. We'll see you when you move back! But in the meantime, make Detroit proud in Atlanta.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3556
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no bookstores? bitching about having to PAY for a copy of a police report? (MANY cities charge)

And you're an independent filmmaker so you aren't even dependent on an employer?

(Message edited by lilpup on February 22, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Vantanna
Member
Username: Vantanna

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well LP, in many cities, the Police also come the same DAY you call them, not 3 days later and subsequently refuse to enter the home when it's dark.

Most cities you don't have to file a stolen car report 4 times & you can pick that copy up from the same precinct you went and waited 6 hours to file it, instead of having to travel downtown three times, because the report wasn't ready 2 weeks later, when they said it would be; pay to park, pay to wait, and then pay for the report.

In most cities, there would be some type of investigation, when a Tow Truck comes to your home, goes in your driveway, & tows a car away from your home. My Car was stolen with a tow truck as my last remaining "neighbor" watched & called the Police to no avail.

And as far as bookstores, Excuse me for wanting to read, "What I can't want a book?" "I can't want fresh meat, fruit, anything else?


You still haven't answered the question, "Where in Detroit do you live?" You know what, it really doesn't matter, you're typing proof of the mentality' I'm talking about. I'm through going back & forth with you.

Thanks for the kind words, Rel & everyone else, I will see u when I return & I rep the "D" everywhere. :-)

(Message edited by Vantanna on February 22, 2008)

(Message edited by Vantanna on February 22, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3557
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"And as far as bookstores, Excuse me for wanting to read, "What I can't want a book?""

You obviously don't want one bad enough to go to midtown, downtown, or even the FREE library to get one.
Top of pageBottom of page

6nois
Member
Username: 6nois

Post Number: 662
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Van not to make you angry or anything the longer you play this childish game of I lived at ______ spot in the city and yada yada yada, doesn't help your argument. You do have to admit that some of the things you can't "find" in the city are there. We have book stores and libraries. Grocery shopping is harder but you can get some things done in detroit, and get the rest with monthly visits to the suburbs. As they say if there is a will there is a way. Keep in mind I am a transplant but I have a great amount of love for the city.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rel
Member
Username: Rel

Post Number: 205
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LP, point taken on the bookstores, but will you please enlighten us with your stories of super-rapid DPD response? Or stories of fresh, healthy, and fairly-priced groceries? Or the abundance of quality retailers?

Fact: The City's population is declining.
Fact: We want the decline not just slow, but to reverse.
Fact: There are many reasons behind the decline. Some leave for personal circumstances, some for economic reasons, some citing personal safety.
Fact: We should listen to those who leave, to address those reasons to prevent further population loss.
Fact: We can learn from Lee. So let's listen instead of attacking him. Be respectful, please.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3558
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, Rel, I didn't dispute police response times or quality retail. Had he stuck to that and the weather without the bullshit exaggerations, fine. As far as respect goes he obviously doesn't bother showing any for the people who live here.

Do you really think everybody around here doesn't know the PD has problems, that the city has problems? Is there a damned thing new to you in that video?

(Message edited by lilpup on February 22, 2008)

(Message edited by lilpup on February 22, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Bigdada
Member
Username: Bigdada

Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe you guys should start a separate DetroitNo! forum so those of us who like it here and enjoy our standard of living don't have to read this garbage all of the time... I guess I could just skip over the rantings of some of the "nattering nabobs of negativity" that post here but after a quick look it's kind of like watching a train crash. If you're all so miserable here in Detroit maybe they'd like to have you in Atlanta too...
Top of pageBottom of page

Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4453
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He makes some key observations (especially about them mentality of the region), but I think he veers a little too negative, and his solution at the end (about relying on New Deal style expenditures and offering immigrants home-ownership if they meet certain standards) just ain't a solution.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rel
Member
Username: Rel

Post Number: 207
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Do you really think everybody around here doesn't know the PD has problems, that the city has problems? Is there a damned thing new to you in that video?"

You're right, there isn't anything new. I experienced most of those issues firsthand, too. By saying what you did, you seem to be proving his point. Problems exist in the City, and we all acknowledge it. Problems exist in every city. From Birmingham to Brownstown, Moscow to Madrid.

But when he *talked* about those problems/challenges (openly and candidly), some of you went went apes--t. It's more constructive than keeping one's head in the sand. You can't fix issues if you don't discuss or address them.

Ravine, I'm tempted to repost your "DY Rules" again!
Top of pageBottom of page

Detmi7mile
Member
Username: Detmi7mile

Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Lilpup is really a tool. Hmm let's see, you fault the man for making excuses for leaving and not "sticking it out". I do not understand. You know some people actually want to "own" a book and perhaps other newer books that you can't find at the library. Maybe you should contact the Border's and Barnes and Nobles store shoppers that there are libraries out there. There's a reason why these chains aren't going out of business anytime soon. I used to live directly in the city until I moved with the fam to downtown in Lafayette Park. But in the 6mile and Livernois area, why is it that the only businesses you can find are beauty supply stores, liquor stores, check cashing places, and braiding shops. I do not know about you sir, but I find that to be a problem.

Can't get fresh or healthy food without travelling outside the city, I find that to be a problem. Before I left for college, I said I was going to come back, but everytime I went back for breaks, I would get depressed just looking at the city and I'm just being real and honest. I love my city, I defend it here at school because people do like to take cheap shots, be reality is reality. I just find it nice that down here in VA, I can go to a mall, a bookstore, a grocery store, japanese steakhouse(haha), etc. , all within 10 minutes of each other. Don't get me wrong there is a lot to love about the city, but there is plenty of work to do to improve.

I just find it funny how people get angry at other people who say, "No i don't like the standard of living here. I don't like being across the street from four burned up houses. I don't like poor police response time. I don't like getting my things stolen twice within two weeks."

That's their choice and we should respect it. Now if it's something heinous like "I left because all the black people make me scared", then yes they are idiots (because we do read foolishness like that on here)

I am actually trying to get Detroit out there with my travel site to show people the positive things about the city and how much there is to do instead of something negative like you always read. Like I said, I admit the city has problems but I still love it and if other people want to leave for better opportunity, then good for them. You can't force someone to stay. If there are no jobs in your field, what are you supposed to do??
Top of pageBottom of page

Vantanna
Member
Username: Vantanna

Post Number: 5
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 7:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I said I was going to go back and forth anymore & I promise to stop here, but I have to say this:

Will someone explain to LP that the distance b/w Livernois & Davison and Midtown or even Downtown? Will someone explain that when I left (The library branches in my area were down to being open 3-4 days a week, 5 hrs a day?

I can Tell, that he/she doesn't have to live w/ Bars on his windows (nor should he have too) but it's amazing to try to dispute or write off as an exaggeration of my and so many residents living reality.

The area u see on the video is my neighborhood, That house was MY HOME. I didn't shoot that, MTV did. I would never try to denigrate a place I care about.

I love Det., that's why I stayed (20 years after) when I could have left, and I applaud every advancement the city makes as far as neighborhood quality, but for ME (I stress ME) it was and still is too little, too late. And I don't blame any one group for that. I think everyone on this site cares about Det in some form, shape, or fashion.

I never professed to have all the solutions, that's why if you watch the video, I said "I DON'T KNOW!! But I feel where you're coming from LP, I used to have "knee-jerk reactions" to statements before I gained a greater understanding as well.

I truly hope that you can make it a better place for all the residents, in fact I know you can, but first you may need to gain a greater understanding for how many of the residents live. And believe me, the vast majority of people aren't living in midtown or downtown. That's not to negate the residents of those areas.

I'm not making an argument "Pro or Con", Just sharing my story.
Top of pageBottom of page

Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown

Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lilpup/Bignada, your approach to this issue all wrong. There is something driving people out of Detroit. The only way to fix that is to face it head on and address the problems.

Imagine if you went to the customer service desk at Hudson's to register a complaint and they told you to stop being so picky, and that maybe you should just go shopping somewhere else? Oh wait, that is what started happening, and people did shop somewhere else, and now Hudson's is dead.

Do you really want Detroit to continue on that same path? If the answer is no then please stop saying such silly things.

Oh yes, I know that there is no complaint department for the C of D, it can't afford one anymore because Kwame's lawyers need to be paid first and since the mayor never finished his job auditing the city finances the state has with held the millions of dollars that are desperately needed. Hmmmm, City of Macys doesn't have a bad ring to it!
Top of pageBottom of page

Cinderpath
Member
Username: Cinderpath

Post Number: 423
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

-please, this man makes some very valid, and points out some inconvenient truths, and once again he gets attacked. Blame the messenger. I'm calling bullshit. Some of his points my be personal, but lets call a spade, a spade here.

I'll be honest, I think the city has great potential, I go there a lot, I love it, and the people, but there is no way in hell at the moment I'd live there, here's why:

The city services suck- police, DPW, garbage pick-up. And you get to pay a lot more in property taxes. No Thanks-

City officials are corrupt, and the citizens keep voting for these clowns. Until corruption is cleaned up, at every level, the city will never have a chance. EVER.

The schools are awful-

You do need to travel to the 'burbs for a lot of things- decent food shopping, etc. Why waste the gas and time?

There is a serious crime problem, and people are not going to tolerate this- period. Two hours for the police to come? They come in minutes where I live.

I know Detroit has problems, declining economic base, etc, but at a certain point, Detroiters' need to quit blaming everybody else. There are things they can control in their own destiny. My wife, who grew up in Austria, asked when the riots took place. I told her the late 60's. Her question was then, why does it still look like a war zone? This is no joke, a lot of the city looks like a war zone. Burned out buildings, trash all over, broken windows, burned out street lights, pillaged abandoned buildings everywhere. It literally looks like Bosnia- And I have been to Bosnia after the war, and in all sadness it looks like Detroit. BUT at least they are rebuilding, and at a simpler level cleaning the place up. Not only the government, etc- but every day citizens. Even an abandoned lot does not look as bad when it is not filled with trash. And many parts of the city have been like this for almost a half century now. There is ZERO, reason for this, it is not the suburbs fault, and the city can at least pick up trash, and clean the place up. It is a disgrace. It also adds to the overall depression, and doom and gloom of the area.

And stop with the lame BS excuse- "you don't live here, you should not have an opinion" crap too-
Our state tax dollars, a lot of them, are going to Detroit, so we do have a say, because we are all citizens of the state and Detroit should be a leading example- We all, residents or not, have a vested interest in Detroit's success.

The other issue- "Why don't you move here, and try to make it better?" Argument- I run a business(80-90 hours a week), and am raising a family, and I only have so much time, and one life to live. And to be be honest, on a deeper level, I should not have to fight to get my trash picked up, the street lights to work, the police to come when I need them, the schools to be auk- as a taxpayer, I simply expect a certain level of service. If I don't get it, I am not going to try to "Fix the system". Guess what? Businesses that are relocating think exactly the same way. They are trying to run a business, not a relief operation. This may sound cruel, but it is the truth. The people running these institutions are supposed to make them work-not me. If they don't, people will simply go elsewhere, where they do work. And this is exactly what has happened. At a certain point, people get burned out, and move on with their lives, as well they should. So Detroit's answer? Blame those that have left, and those that criticize, rather than deal with the truth. It's been working (the blame game) for generations now, and Detroit politicians thrive on this, so they can continue their corrupt, incompetent ways, and not have to be accountable by the residents and citizens to do their job.
Top of pageBottom of page

Pam
Member
Username: Pam

Post Number: 3560
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

My wife, who grew up in Austria, asked when the riots took place. I told her the late 60's. Her question was then, why does it still look like a war zone?



Because problems with abandonment and arson continued past the time of the riots.
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2731
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It was honest.

But as has been the case for the past 50 years, it kinda glosses over the causes yet highlights the effects. Everybody wants to stand and have a pissing contest about who has the best reason for leaving Detroit, but a discussion about solutions generates little interest.

It's for this reason that I'm becoming more unconvinced by the day that Detroit will ever turn it around. None of the leadership in that region, city or suburb, seems like they even know how to begin to address a problem. Critical thinking doesn't seem to be Metro Detroit's strong point. Which is scary because critical thinking is the only thing that is going to pull the region through this latest downturn.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mrsjdaniels
Member
Username: Mrsjdaniels

Post Number: 441
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is the exact reason my family has chosen to move to Charlotte.

There I sad it, that is my announcement. We leave next month.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1236
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True, what he said is what people were saying since the sixties and before.

Detroit hasn't bottomed out yet and will be in rehab for a LONG time.

Until people in charge stop being crooks and take things that don't belong to them and dole out jobs to their buddies the Status Whoa in Detroit will remain.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores

Post Number: 19
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mtv? hm.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroit_pride
Member
Username: Detroit_pride

Post Number: 5
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We need to start enforcing the "Broken Window Theory" and hold people/property owners accountable for the actions or their lack of.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 629
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Though I find the male video completely legitimate, there IS a big difference from living at Livernois/Davidson as opposed to Midtown/Downtown/Lafayette Park.

I mean, did that guy featured in the video move to Atlanta's equivalent of Livernois/Davison or is he in the surroundings of Buckhead/Midtown/Downtown Atlanta?

I hardly know people who move to Detroit from out of state, but for those that do, do you think they are looking to move to a place like Livernois/Davison? No. They'll set up residence near the river, downtown/midtown or somewhere similar to where the man in the video moved to in Atlanta.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5305
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

True, what he said is what people were saying since the sixties and before.

Detroit hasn't bottomed out yet and will be in rehab for a LONG time.

With auto-industry jobs expected to decrease at least to the middle of the next decade, it's inevitable that the population of SE Michigan must significantly decrease. More would have already left this region but for the fact of a high percentage of home ownership here. Had they been renters instead, the population decline in the three counties would surely be noticed. Many are de facto prisoners here under house arrest.
Top of pageBottom of page

Sturge
Member
Username: Sturge

Post Number: 220
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wonder what he'll think when the water no longer comes out of the tap in Atlanta.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5308
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He's smart enough to leave Detroit. So, if he wants water to drink, he would simply move someplace (outside of Detroit, that is) that has water.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.