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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3560
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Friday, February 22, 2008 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and that makes it any less divisive, or, more accurately, dismissive?
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Raggedclaws
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Username: Raggedclaws

Post Number: 143
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 23, 2008 - 6:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray ??

No examples ?? Maybe all those people (many with kids, I'm sure. You're giving them a pass based on your "concession to the suburbanites" theory, right ?) who left Detroit 20 years ago couldn't think of anything either.

Maybe that's why they left.

No conspiracy here, Ray. Just people out of ideas and looking for a better, safer, or different place to live.

Some advice: next time you bust out with an opinion on white flight & its effects...be ready to back it up.
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Anewdetroit
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Username: Anewdetroit

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am a 2nd college student in Detroit but live in the suburbs and I think that if people stop complaining about how bad Detroit is and how people in the 60s left and actually get up a do something if it matters to them. This summer I am putting my money where my mouth is and doing my part to contribute to improving this city, I'm moving downtown from South Lyon. I'm doing this for many different reasons: Its closer to campus, my friends are moving downtown, and I love Detroit and know that things are going to get better. I figured that if A couple of my friends from the suburbs moved downtown and convinced me to also do so than I can also go back and convince my other friends to come. LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Detroit needs young up coming professionals like us to move back into the city so right now along with school my other job is to convince and lead my friends to invest in Detroit. I honestly can't wait to become a citizen of this city and I know that my friends from Novi, Northville, South Lyon, And walled lake would follow. I recently went to Chicago and I was highly impressed by how much passion and appreciation they had for thier city, the next generation up and coming professionals actually live, work, and play in their city and love every last bite of it. Those who think Detroit is a pit...thats your opinion but once you see what Detroit will become in the next few years, you'll take it back, and you come running back. Detroits moto is "It shall rise from the ashes" just wait.
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Rax
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Username: Rax

Post Number: 154
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I am a 2nd college student in Detroit but live in the suburbs



quote:

Those who think Detroit is a pit...thats your opinion but once you see what Detroit will become in the next few years, you'll take it back, and you come running back. Detroits moto is "It shall rise from the ashes" just wait.



The next few years? Don't fool yourself. Everyone your age thinks that the progress is just around the corner. Most of my friends and I have been saying that for the last 30 years. What exactly do you think is going to be different in 2011?
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Neilr
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Post Number: 664
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anewdetroit, welcome to DY and (pre)welcome to downtown.
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 479
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anew Detroit, another welcome from a downtown citizen who shares your passion ( 18 years now), there is lots of us , dont worry..Most of the consistent naysayers left long ago or choose to dwell on the past and the current mayor ofcourse, with no energy for helping with a future,,its great to have you here.
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Eastside_cat
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Username: Eastside_cat

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray said Quote
"He marries some girl when he's 25 and they go buy a house in Romeo. Shit, they probably even go to church every weekend and have 4 kids. It makes me ill."
-Ray what planet are you from?
-Are there many like you there?
-Have you ever been studied by professionals?
Surely I jest, I was raised in the city, attended DPS until bussing came along. My parents finally move out of the city 10 years after” White Flight” due to too many cars stolen and a final break-in that devastated my parents. They were the ones you speak of "doing time in the city" but they suffered for it. I can go back to the neighborhood I left 25 years ago and see the same people jobless standing in the middle of the street drinking a 40oz at 1pm. This is not the life most middle class people Black or White want for their family, so sadly they left the neighborhood they and their Grandparents loved.
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Rolen
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Post Number: 24
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What in the hey are you dwellers talking about. "WHITE FLIGHT TO THE BURBS" If you
read the papers and keep up with the times it's also the black middle class that is leaving or have left this God forsaken city. Don't think that progress is right around the corner. I left crap city in 1987 and from the few times I have returned it looked even worse than when I left in '87. When I lived there I had to send my two kids to a parochial school because of a school strike which finally got settled in October. When my one son went to college after he left the public school he had to take remedial course in math. When my daughter who attended the private school entered the same college she was ok in math. I go back to my old neighborhood, in the Six mile Telegraph area, and it is a dump. I am impressed with the Hispanics and their improvement in SW Detroit. Now will someone answer why the blacks who have had total city control since Coleman Young days can't make Detroit somewhat of a showplace and a city where people want to come and live and raise a family. When things go wrong all the blacks can do is shout racism and blame white flight even tho as I have said, the middle class blacks are also moving out in droves. I guess some of the answer can be with the type of politicians the voters put into office. What a shame. Seems Detroit will always be a dump. Dirty filthy and crooked. I keep looking for a bright spot but keep getting disappointed. I was raised in Detroit.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 11370
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well after your pissy little rant I can't help but wonder why you are wasting your time posting here?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 11371
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

When I lived there I had to send my two kids to a parochial school because of a school strike which finally got settled in October. When my one son went to college after he left the public school he had to take remedial course in math. When my daughter who attended the private school entered the same college she was ok in math.



That is completely contradictory, did they or didn't they go to parochial school. Of course if your child was that far behind in math maybe you should have been more involved in your child's education. If you find out they received an inferior education only after they got to college I have to question how involved you were as a parent.

If your child went to DPS some of the blame lies there. Some of the blame lies squarely on you as well for not being involved enough to see how your child was doing.
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Dbc
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Username: Dbc

Post Number: 101
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the Free Press comment section is a more appropriate venue for many of your puerile, anecdotal, and bigoted rants against the city. I too will never understand why people spend so much time denigrating a place they detest so much or proudly refuse to visit. Seriously, do you have nothing better to do than make stale comments about Detroit? If it sucks so much, why waste your time whining about it? Create a Cantonyes website and sing the praises of strip malls and chain restaurants.

Also, rather than, for example, disparaging "blacks" for the problems of Detroit, you might want to stop and actually - stay with me here - think about why Detroit suffers. Perhaps it has a lot to do with Detroit's dependence on industry - and the auto industry in particular - the jobs from which created the middle class that occupied most of the home's in the cities overwhelmingly working class neighborhoods. If you actually visited Detroit you'd see most of those factories are closed. Guess what happened when those factories closed and moved to the suburbs, out of state, and overseas? Uh, the people followed the jobs out of the city, as did all of the ancillary businesses that depended on those factories and workers, like warehouses, shipping companies. corner stores, diners, bars, etc. And you know what happens when all those people and businesses leave? The city's tax base is depleted, so it no longer has as much money to provide services. This is not unique to Detroit, and has happened everywhere in the industrial Midwest and Northeast.

Of course your neighborhoods were nice decades ago because people still lived in them and those factories were still operating. So before you fatuously blame "blacks," maybe you should consider the economic impact of white business leaders that chose to remove their businesses from Detroit decades ago before crime was an issue in most of the city, white suburban leaders that gave away land and incentives to entice businesses to leave Detroit and relocate there, globalization, and the U.S. auto industry's less than stellar management and design decisions. I'm certainly no fan of Coleman Young and the typically shameless and ineffectual City Council and believe that Kwame Kilpatrick must go, but it's too easy - and asinine - to blame all of Detroit's problems on poor leadership and those jobless, uneducated, 40-drinking, neighborhood-ruining "people" who put them in office. It's a lot more complicated and longstanding than that, folks.
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Eastside_cat
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Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dbc
You pose a cogent, responsible and factual answer to those of us nostalgic waxing middle class whites who left the city years ago (me being one). But the fact remains those that left departed for valid reasons (decreasing home value, diminishing city services DPS, rising taxes and worst of all unsafe streets that took on a look reminiscing of Berlin in '45. The only ones who can TRULY revitalize and breathe sustainability back into the city are the offspring of the Middle Class Blacks and Whites who left and also somehow entice capital from the other side of 8 mile back into the city. I know I have not produced a solution here but there is potential for any city that has a waterfront such as ours.
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Buyamerican
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Username: Buyamerican

Post Number: 454
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dbc, what happens in Detroit has a huge effect on the rest of the State. Per a quote from the Free Press "Gov. Jennifer Granholm said Thursday that local authorities need to act quickly to resolve the text message scandal engulfing Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick before the state's and city's images are further damaged."

Detroit isn't an island that doesn't depend on funding from someone else, so I think anyone who comments on the scandal and the lies going on in the City has a right to do so, whether they live in Detroit or not.

The decline of the auto industry in Detroit is a huge factor. The small businesses that were dependent on the auto industry are leaving Detroit daily. However, it's not because of white flight or companies moving to suburbs. It's because of a perception by some Americans that foreign is better. The Big 3 made Detroit what it was and what it could still be today if people stopped and thought before purchasing that rice burner parked in their driveways. There is a huge Chrysler plant on Jefferson and the last time I looked, GM's logo was still on the RenCen, so even now, in these hard times, they are in Detroit. Honda, Toyota and all the others don't support Detroit in any way, shape or form.

As far as neighborhoods being "nice" decades ago, well who do you think took care of those neighborhoods? Certainly it wasn't City government. People took deep pride in their homes and kept them clean, trimmed and kept up. If there was litter in the street, any neighbor who saw it picked it up and threw it in the garbage, whether it was in front of their home or someone elses. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it's up to the individual homeowner to keep his home clean. I'm sure there are many clean streets in Detroit where neighbors feel that way today, but in many neighborhoods, that's not a fact. People don't take care of their homes, park on the grass, throw trash out their back doors on to the grass. It's time to place responsibility on to those who choose to live like that, not someone else who took care of that very home decades ago. We didn't leave the neighborhoods in a shamble.

WHAT YOU DRIVE DRIVES AMERICA!
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Tponetom
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Username: Tponetom

Post Number: 251
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I emphatically second the motion, Buyamerican!

So if you save a dollar on some Chinese junk, someone, in America, loses ten bucks in wages

Yes, BUY America!
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5439
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Detroit Three killed the Golden Goose when its oligopoly disappeared after better and less expensive products became available forty years ago. Had they not overpaid their workers and executives all that time, there might still be a better market for their products.

GM finally took action during the late 1990s when it dumped its component division and formed Delphi. However, GM was already a much weakened firm at that time and basically survived since then by selling off its acquisitions over the past decade--EDS, Hughes, majority share of GMAC, etc. Too little, too late because it's still saddled with legacy costs, albeit much less than previously.

Ford and Chrysler are much more worse off than GM and may not survive without merging with European automakers or being taken over by them.
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Livernoisyard
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Post Number: 5440
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WJR news at 2 PM today had two items that the US auto market-shares were going to be less than they were in the previous year (perpetual combined minority status) and that the Detroit Three's projections as to sale revenues wouldn't be met this year.

What has happened to Detroit has its parallels in the Silicon Valley this entire decade. So, crying about it won't help.
quote:

Silicon Valley Losing Its Middle Class
By Deb Perelman
2008-02-26

Globalization is blamed for pushing midrange jobs out of the Valley.

The effects of a sub-prime mortgage crisis, financial market volatility and a shifting global economy are disproportionately affecting midwage technology workers in Silicon Valley.

In 2006, only 46 percent of the jobs in Silicon Valley were midwage, paying between $30,000 and $80,000 a year, down from 52 percent in 2002, according to the 2008 Index of Silicon Valley, sponsored by Joint Venture, a public-private partnership, and the Silicon Valley Community Foundation, a nonprofit.

Meanwhile, the percentage of higher wage jobs remained relatively stable at 26 to 27 percent, while low-wage jobs grew from 22 to 27 percent in the same period.

"This is real. We don't know if it is a long-term trend yet, but there are a lot of reasons to believe it will be. Only time will tell," said Hancock.

However, the picture is more complicated than a depleted middle class. The region's 541,300 midwage jobs were distributed across 523 occupations in 2006, half of which lost and half of which gained jobs. The vanishing jobs had been among workers who had been in the lowest parts of the white-collar work force, including secretaries, clerks and customer service representatives. Meanwhile, blue-collar roles such as electricians and plumbers and white-collar jobs such as computer support technicians showed gains.

Joint Venture CEO Russell Hancock argued that in forcing companies to build themselves and compete differently, globalization played a part in the diminished middle class presence in Silicon Valley.

"Globalization has forced our companies to compete in a new and different ways—to be dynamic, flexible, lean. You'd once start a company and hope it would grow, become a GM. But the new model is driven by different regions with different cost structures and startup activity and they're very lean and flexible. Companies are getting smaller, focusing on core competencies and they're not generating midrange jobs as much," said Russell.

Back-office jobs are expected to continue to be contracted out, while high-end work such as research, design and intellectual property are likely to continue to flourish in the region.

Still, the overall picture of Silicon Valley is a healthy one. The population in the region grew 1.5 percent in the past year; it added 28,000 jobs at a time when overall employment growth slowed in the rest of the country; and the region continued to increase its share of U.S. patents, with 47 percent of those granted in California and 12 percent of those in the nation coming out of the region.

According the report, the Valley has also diversified. Previous innovators in the region were single technologies—transistors, semiconductors, the circuit and the PC—one dimensional when compared to today's relatively diversified portfolio, with IT at its center.

"Information technology is our bread and butter, and it's not played out yet. We've still got innovation to come in mobile devices, handheld computing and wireless infrastructure," said Russell.



(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 29, 2008)
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Defendbrooklyn
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Post Number: 729
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm also waiting on Ray's specific examples...
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Lmr
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article above is correct but really understates the situation in IT. Make no mistake about it, the big computer companies - IBM, Microsoft, Hewlett/Packard, and others, are moving jobs overseas as fast as they can. I am not talking about low level jobs here...jobs like operating system development on mainframes, new product development, etc. are moving to China, India, Russia, southeast Asia, Mexico, etc. as quickly as possible.

Because these computer companies are virtually 100% non-union the companies find a lot of loopholes for moving jobs overseas quietly.

It used to be that these technology companies main
goal was bringing forth breakthrough products that changed the way computing was done. No more. The goal now is to please short term investors by pushing up the stock price through cuts, stock buybacks, and favorable currency exchanges. I have to wonder what will happen in 20 or 30 years when all these overseas people will have gained current and critical technical expertise and are sick of working for these "foreign" (American) companies. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese or Indians kick them out on their sorry behinds (including my own employer).
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Raggedclaws
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray's not coming back to this thread.

Ray hasn't figured out how to translate his grandiose "fight, pay and bleed" idea into practical action yet.

He isn't the only one to bitterly blame all of Detroit's current shortcomings on past white flight. What I find interesting is that they won't let go of it.

The attitude of Ray and others that Detroit's best chance to flourish or "comeback" is for a new group of people (Ray is pinning his hopes on the young and immigrant) is close-minded, condescending, and possibly racist.

Excuse me, but Detroit already has residents. Is there something wrong with them they can't improve Detroit ? Ideas, investment, planning, and desire would go a long way to making much needed improvements to Detroit.

And you don't have to be under the age of 30 or born in another country to make those things happen.
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Mwilbert
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Post Number: 109
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would say the current residents are the main people who can improve Detroit, and the ones who have the most motivation to do it.

But there are powerful economic forces working against them. Eventually those forces will weaken, but it is hard to know what the city will be like by then.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 253
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The residents of Detroit need to hold their elected officials and themselves to a higher standard. Every theft, vandalism, murder, rape, trash dumping ground, unkept property, and drughouse must be treated as too many and the elected officials to hear you loud and clear. Yes, jobs are a big reason why many left but I think one million left because transit left, riots happened, the rule of law was not upheld, and the city failed to deliver on promised services.

Those suburbanites who have no firsthand knowledge of the Riots and the Coleman Young Dynasty, will be one of the biggest groups to bring Detroit back. Although I am a suburbanite, I do try to visit as often as I can.

Those who have left can be supportive from afar and should visit when they can. Those who are hesitant to enter do need to see the city as in the process of getting their act together.

Remember, businesses (and customers) will enter when invited, and stay where they feel welcome.
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Crumbled_pavement
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warrenite84 said: "The residents of Detroit need to hold their elected officials and themselves to a higher standard."

Why do the current residents have to hold elected officials to higher standards? Why can't they just be like the former residents and just move? Wouldn't that just solve the problem, everybody just move out?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Yes, jobs are a big reason why many left but I think one million left because transit left, riots happened, the rule of law was not upheld, and the city failed to deliver on promised services.

If one is out of work in Detroit, he is up a shitty creek without a paddle. For him, the job situation is all it needs to plan an exit strategy because getting work here is very problematic and once any benefits run out, his options are so few: a very low paying job (e.g., near minimum wage) if any exist, keep looking as your funds dwindle, or just leave.

The secondary issues--shit-poor DPS schools, transit, even crime--don't even enter into the equation when there's no jobs.

Kids may go to college if funds or scholarships are available. But upon graduation, Detroit offers few entry-level jobs when there are thousands of seasoned vets working far below their levels. But kids can go their parents' basement route...
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Dave70
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Of course your neighborhoods were nice decades ago because people still lived in them and those factories were still operating"

My old neighborhood was still pretty nice only about 15-17 years ago.

It's full of people now, but many didn't care to maintain the niceness. In fact driving through recently I saw two people throw trash out of their car window! That was one of the first things that I saw that pissed me off when the ghetto folk started moving in.
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Mwilbert
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Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 110
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Why do the current residents have to hold elected officials to higher standards? Why can't they just be like the former residents and just move? Wouldn't that just solve the problem, everybody just move out?"

If EVERYBODY moved out I suppose that would solve the problem. However, what actually happened in the past is that (on average) the better-off left and the less well-off stayed, and for the most part the problems stayed with the poorer folks.

But let's think about that for a minute. If everybody moved out, there would be all this empty housing with essentially a zero price. Presumably some people would start moving back in. They would probably be the less well-off people again, and things probably wouldn't be much different than they were before, or even worse.

Let's look at a different approach: imagine that the less-expensive half of the city's housing stock were to disappear, I expect that the city would become more viable in a relatively short time, as the poor can't find any place to stay and have to move out. The schools would improve as a lot of the children with extra difficulties disappeared. Crime rates would probably decrease. There would be a reduced need for city services. Call it instant gentrification.

To a certain extent this is the de facto policy Detroit is currently following --the least valuable houses burn or get scrapped and will probably never return to the housing stock. The problem is that in some sense this hasn't happened fast enough to offset the declining number of people who want to live in the city, so there is still lots of cheap housing that is attractive to people who can't afford more expensive places.

However, with people becoming increasingly interested in urban living, and with the number of houses we are going to lose as a result of the foreclosure crisis, I could see the pattern reversing within the next decade, especially if governance improves and the region's population stabilizes.

Who knows, maybe that is why so many people put up with bad governance--they know that good governance would end up pricing them out of town.

I don't actually believe that, but it could have that effect.
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 254
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Look at all the cities that are prosperous on the whole. Many of them have a lot of mom and pop shops like local bakeries, pizzerias, dry cleaning, etc.. Does Detroit lack entrepreneurs? No.

Why is that not happening here? It goes back to my last statement that we as a community lack respect for rule of law.

These potential businesses are sitting on the sideline waiting for a sign from the people of Detroit to desire the rule of law upheld on ALL offenses. They will THEN feel that they can open a business and know that the cops and customers will look out for them, and the numbskulls will be reluctant to rob them.

If a SAFE profit can be made in Detroit, Then Detroit will turn around. All these residents giving KK a pass on any and all offenses scares away business.
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Livernoisyard
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even the routine delivery of the local newspapers in Detroit is a life-risking occupation. Those carriers have to depart from their vehicles at times, so they are in danger of car-jacking--which sometimes turns fatal. Going into apartment buildings at 3 or 4 AM can also be extremely dangerous. Hell, many buildings and pockets of neighborhoods are unsafe 24/7.
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Mwilbert
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Username: Mwilbert

Post Number: 111
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No doubt some people are naturally more law-abiding than others. But a well-functioning police force would probably encourage some people whose inclinations are otherwise. I see no reason to think the mass of people of Detroit don't want that.

Unfortunately, many people in Detroit, and not without reason, feel that law enforcement and criminal justice in Detroit (and other places) has often been haphazard or inappropriately targeted, and therefore are suspicious of them sometimes. The way to overcome that is to improve the quality of the service. That has to be done to encourage individuals and businesses to come to/stay in the city anyway, but it will also benefit the existing residents.
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Crumbled_pavement
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Post Number: 232
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Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warrenite84, you make good points but you did not answer my question. Many of the problems you speak of starting happening in the 50s and 60s and those people left creating the blueprint to how to deal with those problems, just leave. So again, why should the current residents of Detroit hold officials to higher standards instead of just following in the footsteps of suburban pioneers and just leave?
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Paulmcall
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Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Start packing.
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Warrenite84
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Post Number: 256
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Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Crumbled_pavement, It depends on how bad the citizens of Detroit want their city back.

Certainly to stop a trend and go against the current takes a lot more energy and willpower. That is why at risk neighborhoods get together in associations to get to know their neighbors and to work in unison to protect and resurrect their neighborhood. When like minded people get together and work with the authorities, positive sustainable change happens.

If the authorities don't keep up their end of the bargain, throw them out on the next election in big numbers and they will get on board quick. We must contribute and demand and expect excellence from out elected officials.
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Crumbled_pavement
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Post Number: 237
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warrenite84 said: "If the authorities don't keep up their end of the bargain, throw them out on the next election in big numbers and they will get on board quick. We must contribute and demand and expect excellence from out elected officials."

So why didn't the suburban pioneers do this?
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Warrenite84
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Username: Warrenite84

Post Number: 257
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They felt that they could not live in a racially diverse neighborhood based on fear of their new neighbors and how some of these new neighbors maintained their property. There was a lack of understanding and respect on both sides. Those who could afford to move out did. Many ex-urbanites were southern transplants that had pre-concieved notions based on their culture. (This is a very broad generalization.) Bussing also was like a pack of firecrackers in a crowd and made the problem worse.

That is why I think younger generations that have less history with racial tensions have a better chance. Residents need to be welcoming and not act as if they want Detroit to be their own "Chocolate City", like New Orleans mayor, Ray Nagin said of his city.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 5460
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey! Now, Katrina-wrecked Chocolate City LA has better logistics than Detroit for a relatively small 2500-person convention, according to prominent Detroit officials. BTW, Detroit is already darker on the chocolate spectrum than is Chocolate City.

If Detroit cannot handle such conventions, then it better reconsider and not hold the NAIAS at Cobo any longer. God has spoken through his toolsdisciples in Detroit.
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Chuckjav
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Username: Chuckjav

Post Number: 408
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Warrenite84 makes a very good point; I think it is extremely important for younger Metro Detroiters to understand the incredible racial divide that existed during the 1960s.

I am here to tell you that (during the middle-late 1960s) searing racial hatred existed in Detroit & a few of the first-ring suburbs; I knew very few white people (of all ages) that did not despise & fear black folks. As time went by, this hatred grew increasingly two-sided; particularly as thousands of white people began their movement toward, and eventually beyond, the city limits.

Retribution related (black-on-white) ass-kickings were administered wholesale....for absolutely no reason other than skin color. Truthfully, I'm amazed that more people weren't killed during the late 1960s-early 1970s.

In all fairness, racial violence of all sorts became common place in America during the middle to late 1960s; Detroit was the volume-leader and Detroiters took racial violence to new heights...with great passion.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 670
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Except for the riots, I don't remember wholesale ass kickings. There was discrimination and white cops treated blacks poorly. That much hasn't changed in the burbs.
Still, I don't recall the streets overflowing with as kickings.
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Long_in_the_tooth
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Username: Long_in_the_tooth

Post Number: 87
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Chuckjav
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Username: Chuckjav

Post Number: 431
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

paulmcall...It depended greatly upon where you lived & how old you were.

If you were a school-age white kid, living in areas freshly abandoned by scores of other white folks - your ass was dead meat.

(Message edited by chuckjav on March 05, 2008)

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