 
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 98
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:10 am: |    |
Thnk2mch, do you think those Comerica jobs will be in Michigan in five years? |
Deteamster
Member
Username: Deteamster
Post Number: 72
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:54 am: | |
I left Comerica for Michigan FIRST Credit Union a couple months after they abandoned us. The fat, sweaty banker at the former HQ tower downtown seemed almost in tears when I closed my account.
Leave US after over 150 years in our city? Greedy bastards...see you when the sun-belt dries up. |
Parkguy
Member
Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 218
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:09 am: | |
A study done in the 1970's looked at corporations that moved their headquarters out of NYC, particularly at those who moved to Connecticut. In almost every case, the headquarters moved to within five miles of the CEO's home, regardless of the rhetoric they spewed about safety, costs, and so on. How does that match the Comerica case? If Comerica moved so the CEO could get to work more easily, I would think that shareholders would be up in arms. Unless most of the shareholders live in Dallas, of course. |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 1019
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:35 am: | |
Lifeinmontage: "Handing over large sums of money for nothing?" Perhaps your banking relationship is limited to a personal checking account and an occasional car loan. However, if you happen to need a $1,000,000 plus unsecured loan or line of credit at 3/4 of a point under prime, you'd better be hooked up with somebody other than a local credit union.
Dtex: Love your username. I have a little oil company in TX with basically the same name.
I am a resident of TX although I still have strong economic and other ties to Detroit. I agree with the first part of your post re: the Dallas and TX economy and their skill in luring companies there.
I'm mystified by your animosity towards Comerica for doing what its Board and the majority of its shareholders think is best for the company. It won't be too long before GM, Ford and Chrysler (if they're still around) move their HQs to Asia, which will in not too many years (10?) by the financial and manufacturing capital of the world.
What in he world do mean when you say Comerica should have remained here because "things could have been worked out?" What could have been worked out? Our economy? Please understand, the state, as is the country, is "doomed" based on our historical perspective.I'd be really interested in what you think CMA's staying here could have/would have accomplished.
Nobody's more about CMA's share performance than I. However, CMA just raised its dividend. It has few sub-prime mortgages. It is suffering the same fate share-pice wise as all the financials. Tarred with the same brush as the idiots at Citi, M-L et al. It's unfortunate but a fact of life in this reckless economy.
Finally, how about those CMA jobs in MI? I think they'll be here, many of them, but for the many that won't it will be that MI will maintain its inexorable economic decline, not because CMA moved to TX.
(Message edited by 3rdworldcity on February 16, 2008) |
Brandon48202
Member
Username: Brandon48202
Post Number: 216
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:06 pm: | |
With a forward PE of 9.63, and 6.7% dividend yield CMA, is a real no-brainer. As someone who is involved in the local mortgage default industry, I can't remember seeing a single CMA foreclosure. I wouldn't be surprised if a takeover offer came in for at least $50/share. |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 100
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 12:14 pm: | |
3rdworldcity, I’m mystified that you think just because the governing body of a corporation Oks something it’s ethical. Comerica’s move was based on nothing more on greed and the fact that Babb is a huge booster for Dallas. Yes, we all know that MI has a far worse economic outlook than TX. But other strategies could have been initiated to keep Comerica in Detroit. Look at what Quicken Loans did for example. In the mortgage industry they also want to be close to emerging and growing markets. But they didn’t bail out on MI. Instead, they opened up an Internet Sales Center in Phoenix, and now have an established presence in that growing part of the country. I see no reason why Comerica couldn’t have done anything differently.
You’re establishing a dangerous precedent of accepting corporations when they bail out for greener pastures. If America gets in a habit of doing that, then there is no reason why any of our American corporations will stay here. Surely, Asia offers better corporate climates than any state in America, with their inhuman cheap labor rates and large swaths of worthless land. TX in particular should be keeping an eye on this notion, as one Houston’s largest oil and gas companies, Halliburton, just moved its global HQ to Dubai. I would not be surprised if others follow.
What ever happened to civic pride? To showing love and dedication to the city and state which allowed such growth? In all actuality, Comerica does not make a difference in Dallas. They are just one of MANY large corporations there. I often felt pride when I watched a ball game and they would say “beautiful Comerica Park in Detroit, Michigan”. It let the world know that we’re not all automotive, that we have other industries here. Comerica meant a lot to a lot of people in MI, and they simply saw the grass was greener on the other side, and bailed. And make no mistake, the jobs they left here in MI will be gone in five years. |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 1022
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 1:28 pm: | |
Dtex: I'm stunned that you view this as a moral issue. Incredible.
If Quicken ever moves to Detroit, will it be unethical because it's leaving Livonia? Does the distance of the move govern the morality?
When there are no reasons for corporations to stay here (or anywhere) they will move. You don't have to have an MBA to figure that out. The plan should be to create an environment, economic and otherwise, which motivates them to stay.
I'm well aware of Halliburton's so-called corporate HQ move to Dubai. I used Halliburton for various services for many years. Then their cost structure escalated and they flirted with bankruptcy less than 10 years ago. We now have local companies that provide the same services as Halliburton at a fraction of the cost. The majority of Halliburton's business is in the Middle-East and Asia so why would anyone fault them for going where the business is. We're in a global economy now and the U.S. is barely able to keep up. Better get used to it. Dubai is a fabulous place for business and quality of life. We used to be.
You're obviously not the only one whose head is in the sand.
And, you did not answer the questions I asked about your previous post. Can you? |
Umcs
Member
Username: Umcs
Post Number: 476
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 1:50 pm: | |
"I'm mystified by your animosity towards Comerica for doing what its Board and the majority of its shareholders think is best for the company. It won't be too long before GM, Ford and Chrysler (if they're still around) move their HQs to Asia, which will in not too many years (10?) by the financial and manufacturing capital of the world.
What in he world do mean when you say Comerica should have remained here because "things could have been worked out?" What could have been worked out? Our economy? Please understand, the state, as is the country, is "doomed" based on our historical perspective.I'd be really interested in what you think CMA's staying here could have/would have accomplished.
Nobody's more about CMA's share performance than I. However, CMA just raised its dividend. It has few sub-prime mortgages. It is suffering the same fate share-pice wise as all the financials. Tarred with the same brush as the idiots at Citi, M-L et al. It's unfortunate but a fact of life in this reckless economy.
Finally, how about those CMA jobs in MI? I think they'll be here, many of them, but for the many that won't it will be that MI will maintain its inexorable economic decline, not because CMA moved to TX."
I don't think anyone quite understands what question you are asking 3rdWC. You phrase the questions in a manner that they are rhetorical in nature based on your additional commentary.
What I get out of your running commentary is that we are all doomed and may as well move to China or Dubai and relinquish hope of continuing prosperity.
What is your point other than proposing doom and gloom? |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 101
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 1:55 pm: | |
3rdworldcity, no, it will not be unethical for Quicken to move from Livonia to Detroit. What sort of rationale would even lead you to consider that analogy? For all intensive purposes, Livonia IS Detroit. Furthermore, the synergy the move creates will be beneficial to every single inch of Metro Detroit.
I never said the Comerica move was an issue of morality, but of ethics, particularly corporate ethics. There is a difference, which I’m not going to take the time to explain to you. And I believe I did answer your question from the previous post. You should reread it.
As far as America being able to “barely keep up with the global economy” that is just flat out ludicrous. The American dollar may be weak but our quality of life and upward mobility is second to no country. You’re coming across as a defeatist. Perhaps you’re the one who needs to take their head out of the sand. Or out of somewhere else maybe… |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2687
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 2:38 pm: | |
quote:What some don't understand is that Comerica does NOT WANT to be associated with having a HQ in Detroit. They don't want to be identified in the world market as a rustbelt bank, especially when it already had a significant presence in TX, and in the booming markets of FL and CA. Comerica has to go where the growth is.
Yup.
Fifth Third Bank - Cincinnati, Ohio
National City - Cleveland, Ohio
PNC - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Commerce Bank - St. Louis, Missouri
Huntington Bank - Columbus, Ohio
Key Bank - Cleveland, Ohio
M&T Bank - Buffalo, New York
Marshall & Ilsley - Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Pulled from the list of the 50 largest American Banks. From a spot check, it appears that Ohio is second to New York in the number of banks located there. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2688
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 2:43 pm: | |
quote:^Yah, but KMart bought Sears...and instead of establishing here, they went there (Illinois). That's like a super-duper-schmooper blow to our image.
K Mart didn't buy Sears. Sears bought merged with K Mart. Then made all of their employees either move to Chicago or find another job. |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 550
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 3:10 pm: | |
quote:no, it will not be unethical for Quicken to move from Livonia to Detroit.
So what if Comerica just moved from Detroit to Livonia? Would that have been unethical or just not beneficial to Detroit therefore not good for everybody in the metro area?
quote:For all intensive purposes, Livonia IS Detroit. Furthermore, the synergy the move creates will be beneficial to every single inch of Metro Detroit.
I'm willing to bet that folks in Livonia, especially restaurant and bar owners, would not agree with you. But hey, who cares. Livonia essentially is Detroit anyway, and their opinions don't matter. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5206
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 3:14 pm: | |
Dtex uttered:quote:3rdworldcity, no, it will not be unethical for Quicken to move from Livonia to Detroit. What sort of rationale would even lead you to consider that analogy? For all intensive purposes, Livonia IS Detroit. Furthermore, the synergy the move creates will be beneficial to every single inch of Metro Detroit. Actually, for all intensive purposes is a corruption of standard English--otherwise known as an eggcorn (acorn) in this case--for for all intents and purposes.
And most Livonians would not consider themselves as being Detroiters, I reckon, but (a dwindling) some may consider themselves as being from Detroit. However, maybe some Livonians do consider themselves as Detroiters, but none whom I know think that way.
Besides, from a metropolitan POV, the move from Livonia to Detroit would be a wash. Because costs would be continually involved in and after any such move, it would amount to a drain on assets and earnings--higher taxes, less left over for the private sector for its (more productive) investment, etc.
What's up with Quicken anyway? They're awfully quiet for such a local firm, outside of their heavy advertising. If they indeed do move, how many sales employees might they have left in a couple more years? |
Fastcarsfreedom
Member
Username: Fastcarsfreedom
Post Number: 254
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 3:32 pm: | |
In fact, Ed Lampert, who'd already bought Kmart, bought Sears and combined the entities and kept the HQ in Hoffman Estates, where it's been since it ABANDONED Chicago.
The Comerica jobs in MI, and the Comerica name on the ballpark are more than likely to stay (HSBC USA has kept the bulk of it's employees in Buffalo even after leaving for NYC). As someone posted earlier--it's the growth opportunities that are missing in MI, hence the move. Nonetheless, the ball is starting to roll faster on bank consolidation and Comerica's days as an independent are likely numbered--unless they change tactics and start consolidation themselves. Has everyone forgotten NBD? NBD's headquarters effectively moved when it merged with First Chicago. Since then? Bank One bought First Chicago/NBD and bailed out of it's HQ in Columbus to stay in Chicago. Then Chase came along and bought Bank One--and alas, everything ended up back at Chase HQ in NYC.
You want a city that is really serious about banking? Do some reading on Charlotte and the agressive tactics the City as well as the State of NC in keeping Bank of America and Wachovia around as well as BB&T in Winston-Salem. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5209
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 3:40 pm: | |
The banking interests in Charlotte (one or more of them virtually owned the Milwaukee Brewers), were very keen on pulling the Milwaukee Brewers from Milwaukee to Charlotte about a decade ago. |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 102
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 4:36 pm: | |
Dds, in today's world I cannot think of any reasons whatsoever why a Fortune 500 company would want to move from downtown Detroit to a suburb with hardly any corporate presence, but I think I understand what you are really trying to ask. I think the question you are really trying to ask is would it be ethical for a large corporation to uproot from Detroit into the suburbs? It’s a tough question to answer because the premise is nonsensical in the context of today’s Detroit, where the general consensus is investment in Detroit and redevelopment, not large-scale abandonment, circa 60s, 70s, etc…
But in my opinion it think it’s unethical for any corporation to bolt from the area that helped establish it. Now of course if the corporation is being strangled to death by state regulation I could change my position. Or say the corporation has too much industry competition in the area. (But this wasn’t the case with Comerica. They could have made adjustments to tap into growing markets, a la Quicken, but chose to bail to Babb’s stomping grounds.)
Under these parameters, Comerica wouldn’t have had any reason to move their HQ to Livonia, or Dallas for that matter. Moving to Livonia would have been unethical, but preferable to moving to Dallas, and the regional consequences of a local move would have hardly been detrimental. How many people from Farmington Hills who have visited the dynamism of Campus Martius are still smarting over the Compuware move?
Livonia IS Detroit. The metro area IS Detroit. People in Dallas don’t’ say they are from Farmer’s Branch if that’s what’s on their mailbox. They say they are from Dallas. Oh wait, maybe that’s part of the reason why they are stealing our, and other cities’, Fortune 500 companies...
And for those restaurateurs in Livonia who are upset about the Quicken move I certainly understand. But if they are smart, honest, well-to-do people, and educated as to the benefits the region will gain by having something downtown called synergy, then no doubt they will be as ecstatic about the move as we are. Otherwise, I would surmise they are just being curmudgeons who don’t want to adapt their business to change. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5210
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 4:44 pm: | |
quote:And for those restaurateurs in Livonia who are upset about the Quicken move I certainly understand. Those restaurants probably have already felt the effects of downsizing at QL. In essence, QL has began to move... So, the Livonians will simply adjust to their losing the rest of QL's presence, if indeed that ever comes to pass. |
Shark
Member
Username: Shark
Post Number: 318
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 5:23 pm: | |
"I cannot think of any reasons whatsoever why a Fortune 500 company would want to move from downtown Detroit to a suburb with hardly any corporate presence"
I can.
Better facilities, lower taxes, smarter employee base, free parking, nice environment, less crime, no crackheads, hobos or lunatics, stable governments, etc... |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1891
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 5:43 pm: | |
I do remember a decent amount of posters who said they were going to stop doing business with Comerica because of their move, how many actually did? |
Mrjoshua
Member
Username: Mrjoshua
Post Number: 1571
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 6:27 pm: | |
"And Detroit? It needs a new beginning, much like the movement that Barack Obama is promoting."
You mean something akin to the Great Society programs initiated by LBJ during the 1960's? Detroit was supposed to be symbolic of the success these programs were meant to create. Instead, well, you get the picture. The last thing on earth this City and the United States as a whole needs is yet another version of messianic Socialism promoted by Obummer and Hillary. |
Shark
Member
Username: Shark
Post Number: 319
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 6:57 pm: | |
"You mean something akin to the Great Society programs initiated by LBJ during the 1960's?"
Yeah, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Voting Rights Act of 1965, the NEA, PBS, VISTA, the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965, etc, etc... All those programs sucked, right? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2691
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 7:04 pm: | |
quote:"I cannot think of any reasons whatsoever why a Fortune 500 company would want to move from downtown Detroit to a suburb with hardly any corporate presence"
I can.
Better facilities, lower taxes, smarter employee base, free parking, nice environment, less crime, no crackheads, hobos or lunatics, stable governments, etc...
Smarter employee base? It's the same fucking employee base! |
Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 2065
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 7:11 pm: | |
Keith Crain's opinion from last spring on the move...
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0415/SUB/70413023
quote:Keith Crain: Sorry, but it still doesn’t make any sense
By Keith Crain
April 15, 2007
I happen to like the folks at Comerica. I think that Chairman and CEO Ralph Babb, who arrived here 12 years ago from a smaller bank in St. Louis, has done a very good job of shepherding the bank.
I also happen to know, from a very long relationship with Chuck Gummer, the Comerica executive who moved to Texas a long time ago to run Comerica’s operations there, that growth for the bank is very strong in Texas. The same is true, I am told, in California and Florida, where Comerica also operates. Michigan is, at best, stagnant while the rest of the country is growing. That obviously applies to Comerica as well.
But for the life of me, after giving it a month’s worth of thought, I can’t figure out a good reason for Comerica to move its corporate headquarters to Dallas.
Dallas has a lot of banks. Some of the largest have had headquarters in Texas for years. Others have local roots but were acquired by companies with headquarters outside Texas.
By local deposits alone, Comerica ranks seventh among the leading banks in the Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington area, according to 2006 FDIC numbers. Its market share was less than 2 percent.
It’s going to take Comerica a hundred years to get any sort of traction with Texas customers, who may think of it as just another carpetbagger from the North.
Meanwhile, Comerica has given up its rightful position as No. 1 in our community to become a large bank with headquarters somewhere else. It just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense — or cents.
...
|
Shark
Member
Username: Shark
Post Number: 320
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 7:43 pm: | |
"Smarter employee base? It's the same fucking employee base!"
People living in Detroit are less educated than those living in the suburbs. It is easier to recruit smart suburbanites to a nice job in the suburbs as opposed to a job downtown. Sure, you'll get some commuters, but you're potentially missing out on a lot of quality workers when your company HQ is located in a city where half the residents are illiterate.
Bachelor's degree or higher, percent of persons age 25+, Year 2000 census:
29.7% Livonia
36.7% Southfield
47.9% Farmington Hills
11% Detroit |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 8:04 pm: | |
Here's some facts, which I know will confuse and confound some of you.
Comerica Chm Ralph Babb was indeed born in TX. His family moved to Oklahoma City when he was an infant, where his father was a line worker for Kraft Foods. When Babb was 6 yrs old the family moved to Springfield, Mo. The family never moved from Mo.
Babb went to the U. of MO and studied civil engineering. He soon switched to business and eventually became a CPA.
He practiced with Peat Marwick for awhile before joining a St. Louis bank, where he worked for 25 years before coming to work at Comerica in 1995.
Records indicate he never even flew over TX until the bank contemplated moving there.
Rumors that someone implanted in him a magnetic homing device when was an infant have been proven false. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2693
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 8:28 pm: | |
>Shark
Are you serious? I cannot even begin to explain how incredibly dumb all that was that you just said.
quote:People living in Detroit are less educated than those living in the suburbs. It is easier to recruit smart suburbanites to a nice job in the suburbs as opposed to a job downtown. Sure, you'll get some commuters, but you're potentially missing out on a lot of quality workers when your company HQ is located in a city where half the residents are illiterate.
But I'll play anyway.
29.7% of Livonia = 28,731 people
36.7% of Southfield = 28,735 people
47.9% of Farm. Hills = 39,311 people
11% of Detroit = 101,034 people
So not only does Detroit have more college educated residents than Livonia, Southfield or Farmington Hills... But it has more college educated residents than those 3 cities combined. |
Shark
Member
Username: Shark
Post Number: 321
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 8:44 pm: | |
And I can't believe all the incredibly stupid stuff you've posted on this forum over the years, Iheartthed.
Detroit also has more illiterate people than those cities combined. Education levels was just one of the reasons I posted. Care to address the others? |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 1025
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 8:47 pm: | |
Iheartthed: Surprising, but great response. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5213
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 8:52 pm: | |
quote:But I'll play anyway.
29.7% of Livonia = 28,731 people
36.7% of Southfield = 28,735 people
47.9% of Farm. Hills = 39,311 people
11% of Detroit = 101,034 people
So not only does Detroit have more college educated residents than Livonia, Southfield or Farmington Hills... But it has more college educated residents than those 3 cities combined. Now that post was rather stupid...
What about the rest of tri-county metro Detroit? The city probably has about 1/6 of the entire region's population. And about the most functionally illiterate on the US-occupied portions of this planet.
If the other 5/6 of metro Detroit had only a 2.2% rate of college degrees, they would have just as many degreed folk as Detroit has! But we all know that the other 5/6 of the metropolitan area has a much, much higher percentage of college degrees than the city of Detroit has... |
Detx
Member
Username: Detx
Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 8:54 pm: | |
3rdworldcity, I’m not drinking that Kool Aid. It appears as if you discovered some of those facts from this article:
http://www.dallasnews.com/shar edcontent/dws/bus/columnists/c hall/stories/DN-Hall_25bus.ART .State.Edition1.2a45d07.html
You say that “Records indicate he never even flew over TX until the bank contemplated moving there.” You truly are mistaken. The above article states that his children went to SMU (Southern Methodist University, or, as it’s known by the locals, Southern Millionaire University) and he has grandchildren who live in Dallas. Is it your position that he never visited his family at all in Dallas?
That’s absolutely preposterous. Or do you believe the article when it states, “Mr. Babb swears being close to the grandkids was just a happy coincidence in the relocation decision.”?
Your whole notion of this move simply being about increasing shareholder value is wrong. This is also about Babb and his connections to the corporate community in Dallas, which, if you read the above article, is detailed. |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 1026
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 9:29 pm: | |
Next time I'll flag those parts of my post which are sarcastic. You caught me; "records" probably show he did fly over TX a few times. No record of whether he landed though. (That was meant to be sarcastic; no response required nor will one be tolerated.)
Not too many people with an ounce of common sense (maybe, two?) could possibly believe that the Board of Directors or the major shareholders of a major bank or other corporation would permit the company to make such a large and expensive tactical move as relocating its HQ to another state just because its CHM wanted to be closer to his grandchildren. Who's the other one?
His CV is well known. I didn't read your article but I do believe in happy coincidences. Don't you?
(Message edited by 3rdworldcity on February 16, 2008) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2694
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 9:37 pm: | |
quote:What about the rest of tri-county metro Detroit? The city probably has about 1/6 of the entire region's population. And about the most functionally illiterate on the US-occupied portions of this planet.
If the other 5/6 of metro Detroit had only a 2.2% rate of college degrees, they would have just as many degreed folk as Detroit has! But we all know that the other 5/6 of the metropolitan area has a much, much higher percentage of college degrees than the city of Detroit has...
Clearly, I'm talking about apples while you're examining oranges. The poster made the comment that a Fortune 500 company would choose to locate in a suburban Detroit community rather than the city of Detroit to have access to a more educated population. There is no city in the metropolitan area that has as many college educated residents as the city of Detroit. So immediately the claim is preposterous.
Now if you want to separate the city of Detroit and compare it to the number of college educated people metropolitan area city removed... well DUH! I'm sure metropolitan New York has a lot more college residents than New York City proper. I'm sure the same can be said for Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, DC, Boston, Dallas... |
Rooms222
Member
Username: Rooms222
Post Number: 88
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 9:43 pm: | |
Union Pacific Railroad has always been in Omaha. The executives moved the headquarters of the holding company to the East Coast (a couple of hundred jobs). The headquarters was then moved for a while to Bethlehem PA to be near the then CEO Drew Lewis' horse farm. After he left, the headquarters was moved out of the east coast.
http://www.railroad.net/forums /viewtopic.php?p=22198&sid=81e fed0eabf41760940382344e51aaf3
(Message edited by rooms222 on February 16, 2008) |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5216
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:05 pm: | |
quote:Clearly, I'm talking about apples while you're examining oranges. The poster made the comment that a Fortune 500 company would choose to locate in a suburban Detroit community rather than the city of Detroit to have access to a more educated population. There is no city in the metropolitan area that has as many college educated residents as the city of Detroit. So immediately the claim is preposterous. Now let's consider a converse statement. If a Fortune 500 company would want to distance itself from a location that contained the most illiterate--not only in the metropolitan Detroit area but also in the country--but still remotely consider the metro area, it would obviously not settle anywhere within the city of Detroit...
(Message edited by LivernoisYard on February 16, 2008) |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1594
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:13 pm: | |
Then why settle in Metro Detroit at all?
It's like freezing something then complaining it's frozen afterwards. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5218
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 10:22 pm: | |
Why? Proximity To Ford or GM w/o actually being that close. Access to good (and safe) schools are important for many firms with middle-aged professionals with families, for just another reason. Surely, there are other decisions like that which take the city out of any serious contention. |
Digitalvision
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Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 565
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 1:44 am: | |
It sucks Comerica moved. There are reasons, regardless if you or I thought them valid THEY thought them valid.
I think the argument Shark has about talent has major holes - mainly because almost every place I've ever worked draws it's talent from all over the region. Heck, one of my clients has employees in all ten regional counties in a thirty person shop. Only two live within 15 minutes of their office. Another one in a ten-person shop, only one employee lives in the city where they're located and the rest are spread out at least 15 minutes away with half being about 40 minutes away.
So being in the city, not the city, it doesn't affect jack. Everyone who isn't an urbanist pretty much drives 15-45 minutes to work now, and that's the reality for the non-urbanists which are the majority. And the reality is that if you're getting paid, people get over the city thing pretty fast. The quickest way to affect opinion is to make your opinion beneficial to someone's pocketbook, and the hardest thing to convince someone of is something that will cost them money or hurt their job. It's basic survival. It's about getting paid.
Which leads me back to Comerica. That's why they went to Dallas. They felt it would be better for their pocketbook, plain and simple. We're not privy to the information they have internally; there obviously were everything from tax to marketing advantages to being in TX so they went for it. Stop whining and move your money to a Detroit-based bank like First Independence or something. They're small and will treat you well because they WANT your business.
Sure, you're not going to get your $1m credit line, but in that case, you can't prudently predicate your decision based solely on locality - if you did, you probably wouldn't be in the position to make a decision on a $1m credit line, frankly.
That said, I do agree with Shark on some of his points. We here are biased for the most part on this forum - not everyone cares about downtowns as much as we do, nor about the city. The norm is his reaction.
There are plenty of decision makers who vastly prefer suburban sprawl - look at the money Guardian has spent out in Auburn Hills creating exactly that. Or Visteon. Or Delphi. Or Chrysler. Or Borg-Warner. Or Flagstar. Or Syntel. Or Arvin Meritor. Or Dupont. Or Huntington Bank. Our region is not progressive at all - not one of the top 100 public companies in Michigan has a female CEO. Only 0.5 percent of the top executives are women of color. Hint: The decision makers are still older, suburban, white guys with the negative city mentality and who will do the knee-jerk reaction that Shark did and not take a moment to look at the positives of being in the city. Companies who, as corporations go, are more progressive like Compuware (top 20 workplaces for African Americans) and Rock Financial (top place to work) are starting to get it and more will with time.
It's funny... I used to laugh at JoAnn Watson's comment about "free trade" between the city and the suburbs. Now, with a little more experience, I completely understand where she was coming from and where she gets it - and that's she's right. Could of been presented in a better way, but I get it. |
3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 1027
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 8:47 am: | |
Digitalvision: Yours is the most lucid, well-thought-out post on this topic.
Hopefully you'll have the last word. I'm oughtta here. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1679
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 11:30 am: | |
What will be funny is water is going to be a big thing in the future. The areas that people are moving to do not have it, which leads to all the problems they are having from drought in Atlanta. We have plenty of water and are not sharing. I could see cost of water being huge thing in the future that will help companies want to come and invest here. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1598
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 11:50 am: | |
Let 'em go Bob.
People prefer to put themselves in the pathway for disaster instead of avoiding it. |
Bob
Member
Username: Bob
Post Number: 1681
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 11:55 am: | |
Oh I agree, it will just be funny when them come crawling back asking for a drink. |
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