  Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4925 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/my fox/pages/News/Detail?contentI d=5646892&version=2&locale=EN- US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.1. 1 quote: When people ask, why doesn't this or that chain move into the city, this is the answer. The crime MUST be gotten under control. Pizza delivery is a great job for a young person or college student, I did it, and had 401k and made decent money for a kid. Detroit could be full of those jobs, but not if you get robbed 8 times in less than 2 years doing it. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1070 Registered: 07-2007 |
Get carry permits for his drivers so they can blow the scumbags off the streets. Thats about the only solution. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 125 Registered: 11-2007 |
Dominos travels with two people now. At least the poor bastard has a witness, or help, when these Detroit pieces of shit hold these guys up. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4927 Registered: 10-2003 |
Domino's has always had a policy at the corporate level of having ride alongs in dangerous areas at night. That doesn't mean it actually happens at the individual stores. | ||
Hockey_player Member Username: Hockey_player Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2003 |
Carry guns? Have two people to do one person's job? Where are the people on this forum who accuse places like Como's in Ferndale of racism and anti-Detroit bigotry because they won't deliver down here? Maybe they don't because the reality is it's a hazard that's simply not worth it when all these extra measures have to be taken. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1479 Registered: 09-2007 |
Well the eastside doens't have to worry. We have our own Cottage Inn IN city limits :-P | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4929 Registered: 10-2003 |
This Works: Preventing and Reducing Crime http://www.manhattan-institute .org/html/cb_32.htm A very good article on reducing crime in a large city. Here's one strategy I think is COMPLETELY neglected in Detroit, as law enforcement uses the "bigger fish to fry" excuse: quote: | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 446 Registered: 09-2006 |
DetroitRise is correct, we have Cottage Inn in our area,( Lafayette Park Plaza- great Thai food is in the plaza also ), we all just walk over to it to pick up, takes 2 minutes from my place, very accessible, dont worry about the delivery issues. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2534 Registered: 07-2004 |
I agree, John Lodge. When the cops "nit-pick" people for every little crime (jay-walking, public urination, littering, and speeding) it makes them more reluctant to commit more serious crimes because they know that if the cops are ticketing people for little stuff, then the cops will definitely get them for the big stuff. Somewhere in Detroit this philosophy has gone by the way side because many Detroiters think the cops should only get people for doing the big stuff, and whenever the cops get folks for the little stuff the first thing you hear from the residents is, "Don't the cops have better things to do or real criminals to catch than to harass people for the little stuff." The cops, on the other hand, use the excuse that they don't have enough manpower to give attention to the little stuff. Another Detroit Catch-22. | ||
Kell31 Member Username: Kell31 Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2004 |
I agree with Detroit bill. You have your Cottage Inn so screw all the other people. And this whole crime in Detroit thing where there are something like 30,000 unsolved murders. It is a minor thing. Just ignore it and it will go away. It has been ignored for years and seems to improve everyday. | ||
Ferntruth Member Username: Ferntruth Post Number: 348 Registered: 11-2006 |
"I agree with Detroit bill. You have your Cottage Inn so screw all the other people." Where exactly did Detroitbill say that again? | ||
Kell31 Member Username: Kell31 Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2004 |
"DetroitRise is correct, we have Cottage Inn in our area,( Lafayette Park Plaza- great Thai food is in the plaza also ), we all just walk over to it to pick up, takes 2 minutes from my place, very accessible, dont worry about the delivery issues." - Detroit Bill But what Bill fails to address is The crime issue that has stopped Cottage in From delivering to the posters area. It only address Bill's needs and Area. So for example. I have a meijers next to my house. Therefore it is cool that they will never build one in Detroit. Detroit people do not need grocery stores, because I have one. It fails to address the continuing problem of people fearing the city and buisnesses not wanting to work in the city. The person has been robbed 8 times in two years? Anyone see a small problem with that. In retrospect the idea that the Eastside has a cottage inn and the west side doesn't is not the main point of my comment. It is the fact that the continuing problems of Detroit have caused another business not to deal with the city. And in that light people should be upset and cause change not just say,"Oh well, I got mine!" | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 1157 Registered: 11-2003 |
The other problem that emerges when quality of life issues are enforced is that somebody will no doubt holler about their "civil rights" being violated. What?! I can't work on my car in the street?! What?! I can't walk down the middle of the street?! What?! I can't drink this forty out of a paper bag in front of this liquor store?! What?! I can't roll down Charlevoix smokin' a blunt?! What?! I can't park on my lawn?! What?! I can't barbeque on my front porch?! What?! I have to rake my leaves and clean my curbfront?! What?! I have to pick up the trash in front of my 80-year old granny's house just 'cause I stay there?! What?! I can't roll with expired tabs without gettin' pulled over?! What?! I can't dump my blunt wrappers and fillings, used condoms and coney boxes out the window?! What?! I can't drive the wrong way on a one-way?! Dat Boo-shea-t! Blow 'em all the fuck away. -Damn proud Detroiter | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 529 Registered: 10-2006 |
As demonstrated in the Harper Woods thread when someone complained about strict enforcement of city codes. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 919 Registered: 01-2006 |
I agree with Bill! There is nothing nicer than a walk in the park going to Cottage Inn, Paris Cafe, or that really goof Thai place. I cant wait for the 2 minute walk to the grocery store in the spring! | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 402 Registered: 02-2005 |
quote: "Somewhere, back in the dawn of time, this district had itself a civic dilemma of epic proportions. The city council had just passed a law that forbid alcoholic consumption in public places. In the streets and on the corners. But the corner is, and it was, and it always will be the poor man's lounge. It's where a man wants to be on a hot summer's night. It's cheaper than a bar, catch a nice breeze, and watch the girls go by. But the law's a law. Western cops rollin' by, what were they gonna do? If they arrested every dude out there for tipping back a High Life, there'd be no other time for any other kind of police work. And if they looked the other way, they'd open themselves to all kinds of flaunting, all kinds of disrespect. Now this is before my time when it happened, but somewhere back in the 50's or 60's, there was a small moment of god damn genius by some nameless smokehound who comes out the liquor store one day and on his way to the corner, he slips that just bought pint of Elderberry into a paper bag. A great moment of civic compromise. That small, wrinkled ass paper bag allowed the corner boys to have their drink in peace and it gave us permission to go and do police work. The kind of police work that's actually worth the effort. That's worth actually taking a bullet for! Dozerman, he got shot last night trying to buy three vials. Three! There's never been a paper bag for drugs... until now." - Maj. Bunny Colvin (Message edited by Tayshaun22 on February 01, 2008) | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 1158 Registered: 11-2003 |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Billy club to the head! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1546 Registered: 11-2004 |
From what Tayshaun22 is quoting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =hfH6YCKOk00 | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1480 Registered: 09-2007 |
I guess Kell is going to complain about Buddy's, Loui's being on the eastside next? Just face it, the eastside has access to the best pizza. Sheez, you westsiders have more retail than the eastsiders and you don't hear us complaining (You got a Home Depot!). | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 974 Registered: 01-2007 |
Johnlodge, Christ Almighty, the DPD hardly go after capitol crime much less this kind of stuff. Eric_c is right on in his assessment of the Detroit mindset, and so is Hockey_player. This may be a minor difference Tayshaun22, but alcohol is legal, bag or not, although I appreciate the metaphor. BTW "...Despite those successes, however, much work remains to be done in reducing crime and increasing public safety. While some cities across the nation have made great strides, driving down the national crime rate to levels unseen since the 1960’s, there were many that missed out on the national trend, reducing crime only marginally, if at all. Moreover, in the last year, with several notable exceptions, crime rates have plateaued, and in some cities have even begun to track upward once again. If the success of urban America is to continue, it is essential that police departments and civic leaders not rest on their laurels, but rather continue to improve and refine their crime prevention strategies, adopting the most effective methods displayed in recent years.” Gosh, when Bush said similar things about Iraq, he was said to be full of shit. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 453 Registered: 09-2006 |
Kell,its not a matter of thinking "I have mine, and who cares" I think you are misreading the intent. What we are trying to get across on this thread is that the comment was made that these business cannot locate in the city and be succesful and safe.. That is not the case in our area,, they can,, and it is in an area of citizens who do care about our local business very much. Please dont underestimate our commitment to the city as a whole. It is probably one of the most concentrated contingents of Detroit natives who do care. What we dont like is people living out of the city boundaries who are constantly telling us there are no areas to safely exist and operate a business. We do, best to ask those who reside in them before generalizations are made. | ||
Innovator Member Username: Innovator Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2006 |
You think the city has the will/manpower/budget to apply the "broken windows theory" to Detroit? That's ridiculous. The reason Broken Windows theory works in NYC is the density. Higher density means a police officer can provide service to a larger number of citizens. Trust me, unless the DPD is tripled, we won't see broken windows theory applied in Detroit. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4950 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Detroit Bill, that is not the comment that was made. The comment that was made is when people ask why this company or that company won't locate a store in the city, this is the reason. And people do ask those questions all the time. It's not overactive imaginations everywhere keeping people from investing in this manner. I am not saying there are not safer areas in the city. But whether you like "people living out of the city boundaries" (give me a break) making these "generalizations" or not is irrelevant until jobs are willing to come to the city. Just this morning the owner of Amsterdam Cafe said she may leave Detroit now, as it appears the fire at the WSU apartment was intentionally set. I offered up ONE possible strategy for discussion. Not everybody here agrees the "broken windows" theory can work here. That's fine. Perhaps people have other suggestions. Or perhaps they would rather sweep it all under a rug, and criticize those looking for a way to lower a crime rate that is clearly too high, and does have an effect on investment decisions. | ||
Benjo Member Username: Benjo Post Number: 36 Registered: 02-2007 |
As someone who delivers pizza on the eastside, it can be scary at times. There are many blocks where we no longer take new customers, and occasionally we'll have to forgo a delivery because of safety concerns. My biggest gripes are the poor tipping, lack of porch lights, and unprepared customers who keep you waiting for ten minutes while they get their funds together. We haven't had any robberies for a few years (knock on wood) but in the past DPD responded with arrogance. All said and done, I feel blessed to have a job that allows me to support my family in today's economy. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4951 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Sounds like a good place to start, Innovator. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1510 Registered: 09-2007 |
Yeah, but how are we suppose to pay for all of those officers, with our looks? Detroit should emphasize more on volunteer policing as a start. Then we can gradually add on to the DPD if enough mooney is there. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 10089 Registered: 10-2003 |
180 cops could be hired for 1 year at $50,000/yr salary. This would equal $9 million. $9 million people but it's aiight, he's done good for Detroit. We know who the "him" is. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4952 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, Kwame brought the budget back under control, maybe there will be some more money for policing in the coming years. What do you mean by "volunteer policing"? | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4953 Registered: 10-2003 |
Goat, I was thinking about that as I was typing. It's hard not to. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1511 Registered: 09-2007 |
What I mean is citizens who actually care about the city could work sorta like a undercover security team patrolling their neighborhood streets. That sure is a start. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4954 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, like that Pittsburgh project? Has anybody heard any news on that? Some were worried it could be dangerous both ways. http://functionalculture.blogs pot.com/2007/09/philadelphia-p olice-chief-asks-black.html | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1512 Registered: 09-2007 |
Yeah, something like it. However, they don't have to be of a certain race | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4955 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, yeah that'd be a good modification. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1513 Registered: 09-2007 |
Well at this point, I see no other alternative (unless the federal government was to step in, and that's not happening). | ||
Drjeff Member Username: Drjeff Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2007 |
quote: The owner of a Cottage Inn Pizza in Dearborn is upset. His delivery drivers are being terrorized, and he says nothing is being done about it. As FOX 2's Taryn Asher reports, his employees have been robbed at least eight times since 2006. Really? Only 8 times in 2 years? Hell, there are more delivery driver robberies than that in Ann Arbor in a year, where the police have nothing better to do than write moving violation tickets all day. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4967 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yeah, there mayt be more than 8 delivery driver robberies than that in Ann Arbor in a year. Just not from ONE STORE. We aren't counting total pizza delivery robberies here. If I got robbed once, I'd probably quit and work somewhere safer. If I got robbed twice that same year or the next, I'd be out of there. The franchisee who owned the pizza place I worked at used to own many Domino's stores throughout SE Michigan. One day he was shot working at one of his stores in Detroit. He sold them all off immediately, and only kept the ones in the Northern suburbs. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2003 |
I just got back from an event where Detroit came up - originally in a very positive light - and apparently, this story was how they were driving at Campus Martius recently and saw someone trying to implore a cop to follow someone who was stealing their car, and the cop did nothing. As always, it was capped with "that's how it always is" and "I won't go to Detroit - I even am hesitant about going to Tiger games." First, I'm a little surprised at the story because it's C-mart - but also, crime is the number one thing that people think about when they think about the city. No doubt, some of it is the old disgusting formula of black=dangerous and may not change, but there are serious crime issues and perception. We do need a Giuliani-style turnaround in Detroit about crime - I'm a broken record I know but the city will not need to offer so many tax incentives and everything else if they just provided basic services - or did a better job of showing that they did. Stories like the scrappers who the cops don't show up for two hours, or the murder downtown that still isn't solved, chiefly because there wasn't the budget to follow it, reinforce any negative perceptions beyond the fact that it's just wrong. I'm sure it has something to do with the "don't snitch" culture or something else ignorant and idiotic, but it needs to change... and that needs to come from the top and the mayor and administration need reprioritize the budget and bring the hammer down. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11519 Registered: 12-2003 |
I don't know if there can EVER be a change in attitude for some people. Especially those who actually believe what they see on the telly. I had a friend, or so I thought, come down for one of my Friday night Open Houses. 'Round midnight or so, he starts jonesing for pizza. Nothing open delivering that late, we order from Sgt. Pepperoni's at Majestic and I send him to pick 'em up...via some slightly dis-jointed Brush Park streetways because of the Mack Avenue construction. He comes back all huffy that "two black guys followed me into your lot!". So I ask, from my bedroom perch for a moment, are they still here or are they gone? Gone?! Then you're fine, relax. "Naw man, if you're not going to take me seriously, I'm leaving" WHAT?! I am! Relax, is there anyone out there? (so he leaves, with his pizza and Goldschlager concoction elixir of the gods...some two other ingredients like butterscotch schnaps and Baileys) Haven't heard from him since. He told my temporary roommate on the way TO the pizza joint that he was afraid that I was living under a delusion of safety in the big, bad city. The next day I quizzed the temporary roomie about the event the night before, and as he described the whole story I realized that they simply got the attention of two very good and very smart plainclothes Gang Squad officers who didn't want to waste time, ink, or bullets on his fucking paranoid self. AFTER he drove over the center line after an awkward turn onto that Wilkins bridge over I-75 that the detour is routed over...the next day I walked over it and saw THREE other people do the same thing, as they're going from a one-way service drive to a bridge with no center line! LAST TIME he came into the city was way back for that one fashion show at the clothing joint in the bank building over in the Financial District...and he had trouble with some homeless dude on Lafayette AND WENT HOME SCARED. Funny how the guy could be such a magnet for bad things in the big, bad city. An NO, I won't go visit him in West Bloomfield. There is nothing to do there. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 127 Registered: 08-2006 |
Gannon, do you let your "friends" know ahead of time about your judgemental nature and self-righteousness ? Do they have to pass a test first ? Do they even know it's a test ? I would NEVER treat a friend's concern, fear, or paranoia in such a cavalier fashion. I have a feeling that your friends have indulged you more than once in that way. Shame on you. Seems to me that you show the same contempt for the 'burbs (at least for West Blommfield) that you chastise others for having about Detroit. Shame on you again. You made me appreciate the quality of my friendships after reading your above post. Thanks. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11521 Registered: 12-2003 |
What do you mean, I was trying to calm down a paranoid person...there was nothing to fear when he was INSIDE my loft! My friend, who was WITH him in the car, had no fears and was dumbfounded by this fellow's accelerating fright. This guy saw the same exact stuff from the passenger seat, and had no ill reaction whatsoever. Who was being cavalier? I was trying to calm him down. This asshole went out to his car, grabbed his 9mm Beretta out of the trunk, and made full show of loading the clip and chambering a round in the middle of a small party...before threatening to leave if I didn't come downstairs. I didn't hear or see ANY of that while it was happening...the guy has been a cockblocker extraordinaire and a prankster of worse stories in the past...so there is more to the story than I presented at first. Fuck you and your judgement of me, btw. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2003 |
From my perspective, anyone coming to my house and pissing on my rug by saying that and calling me "delusional" I would consider a sign of disrespect and maybe they're not my friend. I don't detect contempt - I detect more of a statement of fact. There really isn't that much to do in Bloomfield Hills. Been out there plenty of times. There is plenty in Birmingham, or Royal Oak, etc. but Bloomfield Hills is a bedroom community. Part of it is for some of us who have been either living or working in the city for awhile is that it does get really tiring hearing the exaggerations, lies, and latent racism. This is a very uniquely Detroit problem about it's central city, and after looking at the numbers, I'm convinced that it's because it's 80%+ black and let's just say we haven't as a people shed our hundreds of years of conditioning to fear african americans. If you look at Chicago, it's 36.3% black. Toronto, 8.3%. New York is only 28%. San Francisco, 7%, Denver 10%. Interesting that many of the cities I've seen people compare Detroit (including myself) to and that should be emulated to "revive Detroit" and have a cultural makeup that is completely different - therefore making those paths almost impossible to duplicate here because of the different set of circumstances. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 671 Registered: 08-2007 |
It's sad that all those delusional people can also read today's newspaper: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080206/NEW S01/80206082 quote: | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 139 Registered: 07-2007 |
Detroit has a real crime problem. Last year more people were murdered in Detroit (404) than LA (392), which has a population of 3.8 million. Saying unfair attention is drawn to Detroit because it is a "black city" is both stupid and racist because whether you realize it or not, by downplaying the high crime, you're implying that crime is just a natural consequence of its black majority and thus isn't anything of note. (Message edited by GreatLakes on February 06, 2008) | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 547 Registered: 11-2003 |
I don't think it's unfair attention... I think there is a crime problem and it must be addressed. But it's a deeper... let me explain my position more, because my goal is not to imply that crime is a natural consequence of a black majority. It's not about the race, it's about the money (Atlanta is majority black, and they don't have the violent crime problem Detroit has). That latent racism that is higher in this region results in less blacks being hired. It results in less people spending money in black areas. Here in this region, it results in us not having a real mass transit system, which undoubtedly would mostly help poor, black people get to work... it goes on and on. What does this do? Lower the economic opportunities to a group of people - poor residents of Detroit, which are a large majority of are black. That lowered economic opportunity creates more desperate, uneducated people, poor people who can't make ends meet... and hence, more crime. Rinse, repeat the destructive cycle for decades like we have - and you end up where we're at. | ||
Raggedclaws Member Username: Raggedclaws Post Number: 128 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ahhh, so there is more to the story, eh Gannon ? Your original post, in all of its trite self-righteous "Detroit - love it or fuck off" attitude, failed to mention how you calmed your friend down, the gun, etc. I think in your quest to be witty and oh so Detroit kewl you left that part out, huh ? Btw, not sure how your friends cockblocking tendencies are relevant to anyone but you. TMI, y'know ? Anyway, Digitalvision and Greatlakes - nice, thoughtful posts. Gannon - maybe you should think your post thru first next time. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4968 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't want to give the wrong impression, I love the city. I want only for it to get better and better. This is a big departure from the last couple of generations of my family before me. But I don't carry their false impressions and fear in the way they did. I object to the idea that this conversation is not allowed to be had. I understand those that get defensive about it. I understand those who don't like to have the conversation, because the crime problem is hyped up enough already by the media and others for their own personal gains. But let's be honest, it isn't posters on DYes that need convincing. The grand majority of us here wouldn't be here if we didn't like the city. So we can have a fair and open discussion about solving problems. When talking to folks out of state, or folks in the suburbs still carrying their fears and stigmas, we can definitely play up the positives. I do it all the time. One pizza guy getting held up by gunpoint is one too many. Let's not be afraid to say so. Let's not draw a line, and say anything under that is "acceptable" somehow. Good people have a responsibility to society to improve it. I believe it would be possible to seriously increase the amount of law enforcement. The city can find money for $9 million settlements, for expanding convention centers, for giving huge amounts of tax breaks and credits, they can find the money somewhere to increase law enforcement. Even a two or three year "surge" would have a tremendous impact on perceptions alone. The question is, do we let those who are uneasy with stricter law enforcement dictate how law is enforced? | ||
Zephyrmec Member Username: Zephyrmec Post Number: 23 Registered: 01-2008 |
An earlier poster was curious about "volunteer policing". Here in FL, we use "Auxillary Sheriffs Deputies" who are usually retired peace officers from other jurisdictions, former military, or concerned citizens. They are required to complete a 6-8 week course of instruction to become certified (shorter for former officers) and then are badged and sworn as unpaid backup for our county sheriffs. (we have no "City PD" although we are a community of about 200K) The auxillary officers respond to motor vehicle accidents, make routine security checks of businesses, handle traffic issues and public event security, serve warrants, and back up the regular deputies as required. They are armed, trained, and the only difference between them and the active duty officers is their shoulder patch carries the word "Auxillary Deputy" and one collar tab reads "AUX". They are issued a full uniform and set of required equipment. They provide their own sidearm of approved type. They are generally scheduled for two 8-hour shifts a month, at their convenience. It works well, and gets more uniformed officers out there, visible to the citizens at little expense to the county. That in itself reduces crime. Another benefit is that the auxillary deputies tend to be older, more experienced, and not as hot headed. They seem to have a better rapport with citizens and have virtually no complaints about selective enforcement, harassment, and the usual BS that police officers get from some of the citizenry. It works well, but I don't know if larger urban areas would draw volunteers, conditions are much different on the job up North, especially in dense urban areas. |
