  Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 115 Registered: 03-2005 |
Who owns this building? Why has it remained open to the elements for so long? Let's start a campaign to get that building secured from the elements!! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6236 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well the city owns it... and they put a new roof on it many years ago. Preservation Wayne cleaned out all the fallen plasterwork in 2000. Are there currently openings into the building? | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1098 Registered: 11-2005 |
Photos of the National in better times: http://i215.photobucket.com/al bums/cc280/buildingsofdetroit/ Buildings/NationalTheatre-1.jp g http://i215.photobucket.com/al bums/cc280/buildingsofdetroit/ Buildings/NationalTheatre.jpg | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 323 Registered: 10-2006 |
 I took this January 28th 08 | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 117 Registered: 03-2005 |
Mr. Gistok, That large window pictured in the previous post by French777 has no glass in it AT ALL, so that deteriorating plaster ceiling and anything else in its vicinity is open to decay due to rain, snow, and wind. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 913 Registered: 01-2006 |
I've said it before, so I'll shout it again...I think this theater would make a great dinner/show destination! Small stage productions or stand up comedy accompanied by a good meal would be a hit in that venue with a great location. | ||
Chris_rohn Member Username: Chris_rohn Post Number: 398 Registered: 04-2005 |
I thought the Phoenix Group owned it. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 320 Registered: 10-2006 |
Masterblaster the interior is mostly gutted from Gistok's previous comments. This thread seems to come up once ever 5-7 months. With the city owning it (you can most likely get it cheap), a new roof on it, and its proximity to CM and Greektown I'm surprised no one has jumped on this yet. Although, I consistently find myself amazed that so many people wo have the means don't see the city as great, albeit risky, investment. I suppose you have to have a passion for it though. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 454 Registered: 11-2003 |
Quit shouting Detroitstar, make it happen. | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 118 Registered: 03-2005 |
MDoyle, you say it's gutted. Does that mean that most of the original interior ornamentation and fixtures are gone? | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 323 Registered: 10-2006 |
I believe so, yes. Search flickr for national theatre detroit and youll come upon several photo sets of the interiors. | ||
Krawlspace Member Username: Krawlspace Post Number: 346 Registered: 04-2004 |
If you do an archive search here I posted several interior photos. The seats are all gone, nearly all light fixtures are gone, the stage floor and rigging are a shambles, and a good part of the plaster is gone. The one exception would be the ceiling plaster, which was mostly intact during my last visit inside two years ago. All the Pewabic tiles from the wind lobby are gone, and the basement is flooded. The city has not owned the building for some time now, however. Currently it is owned by Mel Washington's Phoenix group, who is also developing the Whittier on E. Jefferson. There was a lot of activity and removal of debris over the summer, but I have not seen any forward movement there in some time. The large window in the above photo opens into the balcony landing, sort of a Mezzanine concourse, although there isn't a true Mezzanine, only a loge section of a single balcony seating area. It has been open to the elements since the summer. It has the distinction of being the only theater designed by Albert Kahn. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 914 Registered: 01-2006 |
Rj, give me the money and I'll make it happen!! | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1545 Registered: 11-2004 |
From the old photos that rawk posted it appears that there are two small storefront spaces on either side of the theater's main entrance. Can anybody confirm if this is actually true? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3741 Registered: 10-2003 |
I still think the National would make a great House of Blues. | ||
Krawlspace Member Username: Krawlspace Post Number: 347 Registered: 04-2004 |
There are two storefronts and they are separated by building design. The only way in to them from the theater is via holes made in the walls by strippers. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1380 Registered: 10-2003 |
it was a strip club? man, i wouldn't want to tangle with those strippers! [j/k] | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 707 Registered: 04-2006 |
what I *HEARD* was that a few years ago... (around superbowl time) a fellow purchased it and began a meticulous redo... However, according to my gossip source, the man quickly got overwhelmed / ran out of money and quit... | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 524 Registered: 11-2003 |
Well, in some ways it being gutted makes a little bit easier as a business proposition... Not to be really cold, but if there's nothing to save there's not an additional burden of exact restoration. Although I'd love to see the interior restored to an original condition as much as the next person, I'd much rather see it operating and clean with elements inside that go with the construction of the building. I'd rather see it open and thriving than architecturally perfect, it's much more of a benefit to the city and neighborhood if it's active. I don't know Mel or his record, so I won't speak specifically to that. However, it is my experience that people who are serious about doing a deal do it quickly and effectively to maximize the opportunity as opposed to sitting on it. The longer a deal or property languishes in an owners' hands, frankly any owners' hands, the less chance something is going to actually happen. But I'd love to be surprised. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6239 Registered: 08-2004 |
Sad to see that the great arched window is open to the elements... E_hemingway... yes it's true that those are 2 small storefronts. Here's why.... When Nickelodeons first appeared circa 1900, they were mainly small storefronts converted over to showing silent pictures, with portable seating. There was no such thing as a refreshment stand. Often a vendor would set up a refreshment stand just outside the theatre for the audiences going into the show. Then a few years later, larger theatres were being constructed (such as the 900 seat National in 1910). There was still no refreshment stands inside the theatres, but the building owner would rent out shallow rental spaces on either side of the theatre entrance where one could buy beverages, refreshments or ice cream before or after a show. This too ended by WWI, when theatre owners decided to include the selling of refreshments inside the ever larger theatres (a lucrative business for theatre owners), and the stores located next to new theatres sold things NOT related to refreshments (such as the shoe store next to the State Theatre entrance). Another thing... air conditioning did not exist in theatres until circa 1926-27. So most theatres before that time either closed for the summer (too hot inside), or they had a garden roof with seating installed on the roof of the theatre. This would allow for night time shows during the oppressive summer heat, where night time breezes helped keep the patrons cool. The only existing Detroit theatre (that I'm aware of) that was planning on a garden roof was the 1922 built Capitol Theatre (now the Detroit Opera House). However, for whatever reason, this idea was never implemented. | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 324 Registered: 10-2006 |
isn't it in a PERFECT location for a Movie Theatre in the Heart of Campus Martius | ||
Detroitderek Member Username: Detroitderek Post Number: 33 Registered: 09-2007 |
Sad thing is there used to be a dozen other theaters just like it , all in a row on Monroe Street until the late 80's . That was the big theater district of Detroit in the 20's and 30's. I'd love to see something related to music be used for that building. | ||
Krawlspace Member Username: Krawlspace Post Number: 348 Registered: 04-2004 |
The strippers were vicious, Rsa! Knocking down walls with their... well never mind. As I can't seem to locate the thread which had the images I had posted, I'll put them up again. These were taken in the summer of 2004. Fire Safety assured with our new fire-proof asbestos curtain!           This is the balcony landing I mentioned. The window in the front that is now open you can see on the right of the photo. Note the day-glo paint job on the ceiling fixture medallions. You can clearly see these from street level now through the window.   Inside the east storefront.  Example of the new and improved way into a storefront.  Looking west, candy counter to the left, the hole to the west storefront visible.   | ||
Aluminum Member Username: Aluminum Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2008 |
I would love to see this theater restored and used for plays, dance, jazz, and chamber music! The new, contemporary development on the empty lot by Campus Martius, next to the National, is supposed to include a movie theater. Maybe the New Yorkers who are investing in this development would like to include the National. They could do something like the Birmingham Uptown Palladium and the Birmingham 8. Have first run movies in the new building and "artsy" movies in the National, in addition, have the option for live performance. Another idea is to encourage the Architectural firm, Albert Kahn and Associates, to save the remaining theater Kahn designed. According to cinematreasures.org, Kahn had designed one other theater-the Jefferson, which was demolished in the 1940's. He worked on the Bonstelle Theater with C. Howard Crain but the National is his most famous. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6245 Registered: 08-2004 |
Actually Albert Kahn designed Temple Beth-El, which when the Jewish congregation moved northwestward in the 20's, it became the Bonstelle Playhouse. C. Howard Crane redesigned parts of the former synagogue as a playhouse. He may have gotten Kahn's input in his redesign (addition to the front, adding an orchestra section,etc.) but the redesign was Crane's work. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4387 Registered: 02-2005 |
Great photos! This theatre has survived to this point, and it is not going anywhere. It's future is bright; it will inevitably be re-used. | ||
Bill_rush Member Username: Bill_rush Post Number: 16 Registered: 01-2008 |
No one has mentioned the Gayety. Wasn't it next door and also burlesque in the 40's. Is it gone? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6251 Registered: 08-2004 |
Bill, Sorry to say that the National is the only survivor of the Monroe Ave. theatre district. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2006 |
Here's a great little blurb about the monroe block. http://www.michiganhistorymaga zine.com/detroit/pdf/monroe_bl k.pdf | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1100 Registered: 11-2005 |
isn't it in a PERFECT location for a Movie Theatre in the Heart of Campus Martius Well, the new Cadillac Square project on the old Monroe Block site is supposed to include a movie theater. Though I agree, it wouldn't be half as spectacular as a restored National Theatre. Then again, I don't know if a movie theater could survive downtown, what with all the googleplexes and everything in suburbia. | ||
Jokerman Member Username: Jokerman Post Number: 120 Registered: 07-2005 |
The National Burlesk was the first place that I ever saw a naked woman.I was about 14, my brother was 12. When they asked our age at the door we said "18." They let us in, no questions asked. This was about 1964. | ||
N7hn Member Username: N7hn Post Number: 4 Registered: 02-2008 |
the FOX theatre was in just as bad if not worse shape once upon a time.... I remember fund raisers to save the fox and U could only go in the lobby due to falling plaster and roof. These fund raisers only paid the legal fees to keep it from being torn down too, didnt do any of the restoration work on it . Someone call Tom Monahan AGAIN. | ||
Wpitonya Member Username: Wpitonya Post Number: 58 Registered: 08-2005 |
what about restoring the National using donations and utilizing tax breaks.....then lure the Second City back downtown where it belongs! | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2039 Registered: 12-2005 |
N7hn--No way was the Fox as bad as the National now is. The stairways going up to the balcony levels were hit pretty hard due to a roof design flaw, a natural leak spot developed in both of those and hit the plaster pretty hard. Also, Tom Monahan had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the Fox, it was his rival Mike Ilitch/Little Caesars (who takes a lot of heat on this site) who was able to purchase the theatre from Chuck Forbes, who could be best described as a place holder. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6289 Registered: 08-2004 |
I would have to agree with 56packman on the state of the Fox. It wasn't in too bad of condition. I was there in 1985 (3 years before restoration) for a Gaylord Carter organ concert, and the auditorium was dull and smoke stained with peeling paint in some areas. Very reminiscent to the current state of the Filmore (State) Theatre auditorium today (with the exception of the procenium arch around the stage, which has been restored at the Filmore). Maybe one day when they ban smoking, the Filmore auditorium can be restored to its' original 1925 luster. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1400 Registered: 10-2003 |
i was told that the state (not going to call it the filmore) now bans smoking for all livenation events. which is all concerts, so unless they still have club x (or whatever incarnation it is now; altered state?) there is no smoking allowed in the theatre. this was enacted a while ago; probably when they changed the name, at least. they now have part of the sidewalk roped off by an exit for people who want to smoke. | ||
Lukabottle Member Username: Lukabottle Post Number: 148 Registered: 12-2004 |
I can confirm the no smoking rule.I was just there on Saturday. Smoking is only allowed in the State Bar, no smoking in the theater. It was pleasant. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 1401 Registered: 10-2003 |
[bah! rock shows are supposed to smell and be dangerous to your health. that corporatization IMO is disgusting!] | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6291 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for that bit of info... now if only they could eliminate the stale beer smell after performances! The State/Filmore has had its' outer storm lobby and rotunda lobby completely restored. The barrel vaulted Grand Foyer has had only the columns and lower walls restored. The barrel vaulted ceiling 3 stories up still needs to be restored. And the auditorium has only had the procenium arch restored (as well as the first 2 faux marble columns to the right of the stage. That was the last of the restoration work that was completed so far, and that was about 3 years ago. Because auditorium restoration would have to include the paint flaking ceiling dome (8 stories up), it would require major scaffolding to complete that work. I wonder if that is being planned any time soon. It would require some major downtime for the Filmore/State. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11576 Registered: 12-2003 |
They were enforcing the non-smoking ban heavily during the Marilyn Manson concert recently at the State/Filmore...but somehow there was enough second-hand cannabis smoke to get a decent buzz. I'd like to turn the National into a very unique 'destination coffeehouse', along with others around the neighborhoods in a small chain...tied together with a common interactive website. I think this place is in the right spot, and is a good size for a stage with around 200-400 quality seats. We're moving along with these plans now, if anyone wants to join us investigating THIS option, too, we welcome the effort and enthusiasm...and investment. It will be done with OPM, since I have no concept of it. An acoustic haven for music and plays...now THAT I have a concept of...what with all of the creative geniuses I keep meeting around this town, it is sure to become a crucible of creativity. Cheers! | ||
Jgavrile Member Username: Jgavrile Post Number: 28 Registered: 09-2005 |
Got a question about posting pictures, How do you guys keep the pictures down below 50KP, or convert them, in order to post them on the site?? I have old pictures that I have scanned and they are usually more than the 50KP that is the limit on this website> | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2008 |
If I don't miss my guess the National was turned into a strip club prior to closing. My sister and I were on a double date and the guys were taking us there as a dare. We were warned away by cops as we approached the theater. They were raiding it. Sorry I never got to see it before it was boarded. On a happier note I am proud to say that we assisted in a minor way to to rehab orchestra hall. We went to the first save the hall,concert. It looked like a bombed out 2nd world war scenario. Dizzy Gillespie donated his time and talent to help raise funds to rehab this beautiful musical venue. He gave a short speech about his experience as a black musician at the hall, some good some memories, some not so good. We attended many of those fundraisers in the early days. Funny thing is we can no longer afford the events. Yet we were a part of the resurrection. Oh well. | ||
Aluminum Member Username: Aluminum Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2008 |
Urban Outfitters likes to use old theaters for their stores. They did a great job reusing the Garden Theater in Charleston, South Carolina-much better then the State in Ann Arbor. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 35 Registered: 01-2008 |
Sorry for all my posts recently. I don't mean to bore. I noticed Phoenix group was mentioned as owners. This group is pure sleeze. Don,t pay their bills. They are vultures, a Kwame buddy also Coleman's. Sorry I can't give details but please believe me. They have bought prime riverfront property but have no money to develop it. | ||
Sharms Member Username: Sharms Post Number: 36 Registered: 07-2007 |
When I was in high school I worked summers at Crowley's in the mens department. Directly across Monroe was the National Theater featuring the most beautiful women in the world. Right next door to the National was a small lunch counter owned by a couple of Greek brothers. I ate there every day once I found out a number of the "dancers" ate lunch there between shows. I wish I had more sophisticated memories of the National, but that's it. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 1083 Registered: 02-2007 |
How do you guys keep the pictures down below 50KP, or convert them, in order to post them on the site?? I have old pictures that I have scanned and they are usually more than the 50KP that is the limit on this website> Many ways. Easiest or most accessible. Take them into "Paint" resize them and save them as a Jpeg. There are a ton of programs to do this. Superjpeg is one. Easy to use. Bmp's are huge. |
