  Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 209 Registered: 08-2006 |
To my surprise the copper gutters were flapping freely in the breeze at the School of Architecture this morning. Turns out scrappers squeezed through the fence and stole the copper downspouts off the front of the building. They got two five-foot sections. I'm thinking under 10 pounds. How much crack could one buy with 50 bucks? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2283 Registered: 10-2006 |
With the old downspouts (before they replaced them two years ago when they redid the roof), most of them were missing. It's too bad that facade improvements don't get any respect from the scrappers... | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 10082 Registered: 10-2003 |
Too bad scrapper can't be shot in the knees. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 4879 Registered: 10-2003 |
Care about others or the community in general? Asking too much, I'm afraid. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 270 Registered: 03-2005 |
Mighty cold to be out there stripping historic buildings today. That's a powerful crack jones they got. If you see them, let them know that there's a streetlight at 3rd and Lafayette that blew over and is just lying there, begging to be stripped. But don't tell them the current's still live. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1064 Registered: 12-2006 |
Solve problems where they're solvable. You can't catch every desperate person in Detroit, but you could conceivably crack down on the scrap yards who buy this obviously illegally obtained loot. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2007 |
quote: How? What's the law right now? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1066 Registered: 12-2006 |
I don't know the law but obviously the theft and sale of scrap metal is a big enough problem in Detroit, and has been for a long enough time, that the City Council could enact or strengthen a law to provide for a crackdown. Pawn shops, years ago, did not have to verify identity of sellers and now they do, for instance. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 180 Registered: 12-2007 |
They should treat them like Architectural Chop shops. Possession of stolen property is a crime, and should be treated as such. | ||
Publicmsu Member Username: Publicmsu Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2003 |
Detroit has other problems to deal with... like text messaging and a mayor that likes to tell little white lies. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 284 Registered: 03-2005 |
There's got to be a way to crack down on this. State licensing of scrap yards? Make people sign a document that they can verify the ownership of the material, and hold them liable if it turns out to be false. Make yards report all scrap received, the source, type of material, and tonnage, etc. to track for suspicious activity. Unannounced inspections of scrap yards? Stiffer penalties? Sting operations? I don't know much about scrap yards but the scrappers are turning viable rehabilitation projects into teardowns by stealing a few thousand dollars worth of metal. This is accelerating the decline of many areas of the city. | ||
Frankg Member Username: Frankg Post Number: 170 Registered: 08-2007 |
Let the free market deal it. Over time, so many people will be in the scrap business the price for scrap will drop. That will put scrappers out of work. Thanks, ccbats for inspiring this idea! :-) | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 181 Registered: 12-2007 |
They should treat them like Architectural Chop shops. Possession of stolen property is a crime, and should be treated as such. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1265 Registered: 11-2003 |
Publicmsu-- The criminal, physical dismantling of the city by scrappers is, actually, quite a big problem that has to be dealt with. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 121 Registered: 11-2007 |
quote: How does CC enact a law? | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 285 Registered: 03-2005 |
Frankg, tell me you are joking. The price of copper is set on the global markets and a few more scrappers in Detroit are not going to affect global supply in any appreciable way. | ||
Diehard Member Username: Diehard Post Number: 271 Registered: 03-2005 |
Some other cities have passed laws that require scrapyards to take fingerprints, pay by check (which can be tracked) and require a 30-day waiting period for payment (which slows down the crackheads, and in theory allows time to check on whether the material is stolen). Not that you'd expect the scrapyards to investigate the origins of a ball of copper wiring, but it gives one more layer of accountability. I don't see why we couldn't do that here. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 122 Registered: 11-2007 |
quote: Because there is no one here to enforce it. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 286 Registered: 03-2005 |
How about the MDEQ, State Police. Is it not also an environmental issue, dealing with potentially hazardous metals? | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 123 Registered: 11-2007 |
State Police? I'd like to see that. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 231 Registered: 01-2007 |
I've said it before and i'll say it again, we need to bring public caneing from Indonesia. If they get caught more than once, put them on a chain gang for 6 months per offence. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1068 Registered: 12-2006 |
Rax asked, "How does CC enact a law?" City Council is the legislative body of the City - the specific reason they exist is to enact ordinances, which are the municipal version of a "law". They do other things, to be sure; but that is their essential purpose. The City police enforce whatever the City administration thinks is important to enforce, which changes from time to time. The City administration could decide this is important enough to put manpower into. The State Police enforce state laws and only state laws. You can't get them to enforce a local ordinance. MDEQ doesn't "enforce" anything per se. Warrenite, you didn't think it through. If we institute caneing, the thugs would realize there was an increased demand for cane, and would steal all of it. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1411 Registered: 11-2003 |
"Make people sign a document that they can verify the ownership of the material, and hold them liable if it turns out to be false." ^^^ I can take some metal from my own house and wouldn't be able to prove it's mine lol.... All that would do is cause illegal scrap shops to pop up. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 288 Registered: 03-2005 |
Professorscott, I am suggesting that scrap yards receive a license from the state and have to adhere to strict regulations set by the state, and/or MDEQ. Would that not involve the State Police for enforcement? Viziondetroit, that's not really the point. You wouldn't have to prove something is yours every time you give it for scrap. So what if legal scrap shops pop up. One of the big problems here is the ease at which this transaction takes place. During the day you can just show up to any of these places no questions asked and get cash. That's a problem. If you legitimize the transaction further you might reduce some of the scrapping by the transients. I like some of the other ideas listed like a 30 day waiting period and only paying in checks. Any other good ideas out there? Nothing is being done about this problem and it is getting worse. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1057 Registered: 07-2007 |
Gotta love those Detroit entrepreneurs. Helping build this city one copper pipe at a time. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 289 Registered: 03-2005 |
California: Bill to prevent scrap-metal theft passes Senate http://www.californianonline.c om/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/ 20080130/NEWS01/80130013/1002 Maryland: Spurred by thefts, death, lawmakers weigh scrap metal registry law http://www.mddailyrecord.com/a rticle.cfm?id=4190&type=UTTM New York: Anyone, who wants to sell scrap metal worth more than fifty dollars must now show a photo ID to the dealer. The dealer keeps the ID on file for two years. http://www.wetmtv.com/mostpopu lar/story.aspx?content_id=9eaa c677-47ca-4bf9-b139-594dbd87e3 38 Michigan: Michigan bill aimed at scrap theft http://www.entrepreneur.com/tr adejournals/article/170506865. html Does this bill have any traction? What is taking so long with this. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 322 Registered: 10-2006 |
When it comes to many issues including this one I don't understand why, when it is realized there is a problem that is costing the city money why we dont look to other cities who have already dealt with these issues as examples of possible solutions. This is not just about scrappers but many other things. The bureaucracy in this city is so tangled and out of control that it actually is easier to eliminate police, firemen and education than it does to root out nonsensical high paying city governmental jobs and eliminate them. Aren't there consulting companies (which Im sure cost tons) that streamline cities? Its a big upfront investment and many useless gov't employees will likely lose their jobs but this could ensure the cities solvency and provide money for more important personnel. sigh* | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 2047 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: The City Council did enact a law last year cracking down on scrap metal dealers somewhat, requiring the installation of video cameras at scrap dealers among other things. See https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/76017/87312.html Although I don't think it includes a 30-day wait on payment, which is a great idea (and simple to implement). That would actually put a stop to a lot of the crackheads stealing metal, as they don't typically think more than 4 hours into the future. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 232 Registered: 01-2007 |
Professorscott, that's hilarious! | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2006 |
So I have been trying to figure out where these gutters were. From what I can tell the SOA at UDM has replacement downspouts unless the copper ones were on the Livernois side of the building. Can anyone inform me. | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 1046 Registered: 03-2004 |
How about electrified downspouts! ZAP ZAP..... | ||
Bulletmagnet Member Username: Bulletmagnet Post Number: 969 Registered: 01-2007 |
Mbr, there aren’t any laws that will stop illegal scrappers. They are criminals, too busy scrapping gutters to read the law. It will make the legitimate scrap business loose money, though. How? By making them stockpile product as world prices shift, and bog them down with paper work for the bureaucrats. If the problem is crack, then lets apply the winning strategy we used to solve that problem to this one. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2292 Registered: 10-2006 |
6nois, chances are that campus facilities people have replacements for the downspouts--but it's just the principle of this situation. Before they actually redid the roofing and copper a few years ago, most of the original downspouts were missing... | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 211 Registered: 08-2006 |
it was the livernois side they have not been replaced and the crackhead woman who always needs a few bucks to get to the battered womans shelter was running around the building last night she actually thought i would let her in trying to jack some laptops of course-or use the bathroom she was real strung out i chased her off and we laughed as she crawled back under the fence you can see her footprints for yourself north side of the building headed toward out the fence | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 534 Registered: 11-2003 |
Here's the problem - and this is from experience. It's not about the laws - there are tougher laws. Additional laws do ALMOST NOTHING in this case. The laws will not stop a crime that is quite profitable in the eyes of the scrapper and for the nefarious yard is a cheap way to make money. It's about police response time in the city, and the fact that it's such a crime of opportunity. If the city of Detroit were a car, and the citizens' stuff was an iPod and a $100 bill on the seat, the police efficacy of the city leave the car windows open and the doors unlocked parked in the worst neighborhood imaginable. The money and the iPod are going to be gone when you come back - at least. Even if you do call to report someone scrapping - no one shows up for at least a couple hours if not more, and by then, they're done and gone with their booty. In most communities in the developed world (forget the suburbs), if you call the cops and tell them that someone is scrapping, they're there in 5 to 15 minutes. It all comes down to basic services. Fix the basic services, you'll get tons of population to stay and move back in droves, even with the high-ish taxes. That's the silver bullet. p.s. - Even with all of the issues I outlined, I still think the city is a great future investment and I'm bullish on the future because I know that this CAN be fixed. |
