  Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1561 Registered: 10-2003 |
I was wandering through the Carpchives (a large and complicated place) and ran across some old 8.5 X 11 glossies. Any ideas of who #18 and #27 might be? eeek  | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1012 Registered: 11-2003 |
On this website they have a team picture for each year and many of the numbers are listed on each yearly roster. If you could pinpoint the year based on the photo you might be able to find out who they are. http://bentley.umich.edu/athde pt/football/football.htm Is that a number or part of a number at the bottom of the photo? | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2094 Registered: 11-2003 |
Back when they wore the older style winged helmet, some of the quarterbacks wore #27. Vidmar, Slade, Timberlake etc. But correlating a #18 with that particular #27 is a tougher task. I will scout thru a lot of old photos and see what I can locate. We might be going as far back as the Chappius era. (Great era, too) | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1000 Registered: 03-2006 |
All American Bump Elliott wore #18 in 1947. Are you sure #27 is the right number? | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2095 Registered: 11-2003 |
Good point, Kenp. My roster for 1947 shows Bump wearing # 18, but there is no #27 listed. Leo Koceski wore #18 the next year, but still no #27 showing in the roster for 1948. Ted Toper was qb in 1950 and wore #27, and Koceski was still wearing his #18. So that's a possibility. In the photo, the runner's left hand is blocking the full number on his jersey;looks like a 7 but I don't know the other numeral. And both Benny and Fritz would prefer that he tuck that ball in rather than hold it out there where it might be picked off. Carp, what's your info on that number being 27? | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 147 Registered: 04-2006 |
That's in the 1950's, you can tell by the facemasks. I'm guessing mid to late '50s | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1002 Registered: 03-2006 |
Looking at the helmets the era looks to be mid 50's. In 1954 we had: 27 Baldacci, Louis G. QB 1954 v Jr. 6-1 196 Akron OH _ 18 Hickey, Edward L. HB 1954 v Sr. 5-8 173 Anaconda MT _ Looking at the size of the players 27 looks bigger then 18 Baldacci was also the starting QB that year | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1003 Registered: 03-2006 |
1956 helmet  | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2096 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ron Kramer's helmet, Kenp? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1004 Registered: 03-2006 |
yep, I found it on Ebay. Also saw the 54 helmet had no numbers. I cant tell if there are numbers on above picture. | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1564 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Carp, what's your info on that number being 27?' Good question Rock - which we expect from you. I guessed that this picture was the same year. But it might not be. life is s puzzle and there are no missing pieces, just hard to find ones. eeeeek | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2099 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think we have it! This picture shows #27 clearly and he is being pursued by a Georgia Bullddog. Michigan played Georgia in 1957, and beat them 26-0. Jim Van Pelt, #24 was Michigan's starting qb that year. He dated a gal from ADPi sorority where I bussed dishes and I met Van Pelt a few times. Anyway, Michigan also had a qb that year who wore #27, Stan Noskin. I assume that with a comfortable lead, Noskin came in for VanPelt and it's Noskin who is pictured. They wore their numerals on their helmets then, as one of my M books shows a picture of Jim Pace carrying the ball in the Ohio State game and his numerals #43) are clearly shown both on his jersey and on the right side of his helmet. I have a shot of Jim Mandich ten years later in the 1968 game and his helmet sports #88. Not so in the 1969 season, and I guess that when Bo took over, he said no more numerals on helmets, instead you got a small football on your helmet for good plays. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2100 Registered: 11-2003 |
So---putting 2 and 2 together, since it's 1957, the Roster shows #18 is none other than Ernest McCoy, a local boy right out of Ann Arbor. The referee? Lowell maybe? | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1005 Registered: 03-2006 |
Rock, Perhaps you recall in 1955, Jim Van Pelt intercepted MSU's Earl Morral in the great big Meeechigan victory over the Spartans 14-7. | ||
Gibran Member Username: Gibran Post Number: 1632 Registered: 02-2007 |
http://www.meforum.org/article/926  | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2101 Registered: 11-2003 |
Now wait a minute, knep. If Van Pelt was a qb ( and he and Maddock were the qb's then) how could VP intercept a Morrel pass? Did VP play defense, too? A qb going both ways? News to me. Lowell Perry's commentary on that 1955 M-MSU game is that Tony Branoff set up the first td with an interception, and the second score came from Ron Kramer blocking an Earl Morral punt. Gibran--My memory ain't what it used to be, but that sure's not the Jim Van Pelt I remember in '55!! My guy played for Benny, not LLoyd. And last time I looked, he was white. Someone's pulling my leg! | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1568 Registered: 10-2003 |
 And while I have you here. This is another page out of the carpchives - The University of Louisville 1912 football team. the back, CN Caldwell set a school record by scoring 5 touchdowns in a game, a record occasionally tied, but never beaten. Check out the line men - I sware people were older then (though Caldwell was not an undergrad at the time, but was in medical school there. And yes, I look a bit like him. eeeeek  | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6029 Registered: 11-2003 |
Excuse jjaba for thread jacking the great recollections of The Rock, this forum's most outstanding UM historian. jjaba's cousin is Mike Panitch, starting QB for MSU Spartans between Earl Morrell and Jim Ninowski. Any first-person memories or records you've got on Mike Panitch? Photos appreciated. Keep up your great research and work. This is fascinating. jjaba. | ||
Carptrash Member Username: Carptrash Post Number: 1569 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sorry J; I draw the line at MSU. eeeeeek | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1006 Registered: 03-2006 |
Hal Middlesworth - Detroit Free Press Oct 1 1957 "The Spartans probed into Michigan territory at the start of the second quarter before sophomore Jimmy Van Pelt made a daring interception of Morrall's long pass on the Wolverines' 11 yard line" Kenp - Michigan Football historian | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6031 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kenp, 1,000 quality posts. You are now a Centurian, win a prize. Give jjaba your email address on this thread, he'll take it from there. Mazel tov. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1007 Registered: 03-2006 |
Jjaba, I found this article on your cousin. He had a successful business career. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f ullpage.html?res=9C0CEEDF173BF 933A25751C1A966958260 | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2618 Registered: 01-2005 |
Heck of a commute for him, though. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1010 Registered: 03-2006 |
Jjaba, Thank you for your comments. I do find these kind of research threads very enjoyable. Rock has great insight. My cousin who is in his 80's has gone to every UM home game for over 60 years and is still going. I should show him the pic. As far as my 1000 posts, I do not think many have been of great quality but do thank you for the comment. I won a Jjaba prize about a year ago so I would feel guilty winning another. I do wear my prize quite often though, its very much appreciated! (Message edited by kenp on January 27, 2008) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6032 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kenp, thanks for your comments. Yes, Mike Panitch was a quite success in business. Hopefully, someone will recall his football yrs. too. He grew up in Chicago of modest means, graduate of Austin high School. jjaba. | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 902 Registered: 01-2006 |
Michigan Stadium circa mid-1960's:  A group of Spartans snuck into Michigan Stadium and spread fertilizer in the shape of an "S" burning the grass for the remainder of the season. Also interesting to note that even with the size of the stadium, the only game other than UM/MSU to surpass 100K attendance was the 1969 Ohio State game...the first of the legendary rivalry at Michigan Stadium between Woody and BO. Can anyone shed some light on why the stadium was built so large, only to sit 1/3 - 1/2 empty on most occasions? The attendance numbers are almost shameful over a 20 year period. (Message edited by DetroitSTAR on January 28, 2008) | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1014 Registered: 03-2006 |
I dont think UM stadium was above 100,000 seats until the late 50's. Yost knew that in time he would need all of those seats. How many +100,000 attended games has UM had since 1969? What a great visionary | ||
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar Post Number: 903 Registered: 01-2006 |
Well obviously a winning team draws more fans. Charting UM's progress and attendance through the 50's and 60's one would not expect to surpass the 100K mark on a regular basis. I think that was more of a sign of the times though. Now, that sort of construction would not be facilitated without the demand for those seats. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2105 Registered: 11-2003 |
knep--You report Middlesworth's write up from the Free Press as "Oct. 1, 1957". You probably mean Oct.12, 1957 as that was the date of the M-MSU game. And if that's the case, I think we have to go with Middlesworth over Will Perry on this one as Middlesworth was reporting on the game on the day it happened,whereas Perry's book came out in 1974. VanPelt playing offense AND defense. News to me. The Forum is a learning experience. Detroitstar--Nice shot of the stadium, showing what I assume is the North end zone. I sat under that scoreboard( actually not that one, the old, nostalgic one with the circular clock showing the seconds ticking off ) for my first game--Michigan over Pittsburgh, 69-13 in 1947. 9-0 that year and trounced S. Cal in the Rose Bowl. BEST team Michigan EVER assembled. Chappuis, the Elliott Brothers, Rifenberg, Lenny Ford, Wistert, Weisenber,Kempthorn, Brieske, Dworsky, Tomasi,Hilkene (captain), the list goes on forever. They all contributed, only 40 players on the whole roster. Never to be repeated. Have come close, but that team will always go to the front of the class. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1016 Registered: 03-2006 |
Rock, I only know what I read, I wasnt born yet in 1955. So you could be correct about Van Pelt. A lot of people dont know who changed football into a platoon system. It was our own Fritz Crisler in the late 40's. I found this article on your team: The 1947 Wolverines are also remembered as the first fully to embrace the concept of defensive and offensive specialization. Previously, most players had played their positions on both offense and defense. But in 1947, Coach Fritz Crisler established separate offensive and defensive squads. Only Bump Elliott and Jack Weisenberger played on both squads. | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 149 Registered: 04-2006 |
Initially Michigan Stadium was designed to seat 72,000. This number came from the ticket requests that came into the Michigan Athletic Department. It also came about because of the philosophy of Fielding Yost who believed that that everybody in the State of Michigan should be able to watch a game (there had been attempts by students and alumni to limit tickets to the general public in the early 1920s. Ferry Field, at the time, only had a capacity of around 40,000) Michigan was able to keep attendance figures up in the 1920s not only with the advent of the automobile but there would also be gameday specials from MCS in Detroit to AA (although I;m not sure if it stopped at the train station on Depot street or they stopped on the tracks next to the stadium). The big thing that killed attendance figures in the 30s was the Depression, so much so, that even the national champion teams of '32 and '33 struggled to get 40,000 for a game. The late 40s brought success but even Michigan started to tail off while Michigan State caught the eye of the casual fan with their successful teams of the early '50s and mid '60s. But then came the marketing of Canham and the winning with Bo. And now you know the rest of the story. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6034 Registered: 11-2003 |
Excellent reports, sportsfans. Hang in with The Rock. He's carried water for Bump Elliott and sat with Bo on those long flights. BTW, Bo fans, Ernie Harwell says hello on his birthday. jjaba. | ||
Swede1934 Member Username: Swede1934 Post Number: 40 Registered: 04-2007 |
I am pretty sure that those game day specials were parked right next to the stadiums. I know for sure it went that way at MSU, and I remember leaving on one of two chartered trains in 1954 for the Jan 1954 Rose Bowl. What a blast that was, 2500 students on two trains, Whew!•• | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6036 Registered: 11-2003 |
Use of the train is not ancient history. jjaba attended Western Michigan Univ. because it was easy to get to on the NY Central from the Michigan Central Station in Detroit. In the 1950s, those trains were loaded up with UM and WMU students. "All Aboard the Twilight Limited or the Wolverine." For decades now, trains have taken Omaha residents to Lincoln, Nebraska on game days. Big Red football is almost as sussessful as UM. jjaba. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1017 Registered: 03-2006 |
At the U of Washington and Tennessee they can go by boat.  | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2111 Registered: 12-2003 |
Michigan football had fallen on some hard times, MSU was the big team at the time. With National Championships in the 50s and the 60s. Attendance was in decline and a coaching hire was a pivotal moment in the history of Michigan football. Kind of like the same thing now, this past coaching hire was another pivotal point in football in Ann Arbor, they have had some non-stellar recruiting classes leading to a lack of overall depth and great selection needed to be made. We shall see if they struck gold twice. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1018 Registered: 03-2006 |
I dont see much of a comparison at all, popularity and attendance is high. A successful old coach retires and new one is hired. If you want to compare, I would say MSU has been for the last 30+ years like UM was in the 50's & 60's. Maybe this coach hire for MSU can even things up. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2112 Registered: 12-2003 |
National perception and ranking however are not. If this coaching hire turns bad they continue their slide. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 1034 Registered: 03-2007 |
_sj_: Slide??? You have got to be kidding...which year did you graduate from U-D? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6041 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ok, so we have Lake Washington hard by the Huskies Stadium in Seattle. But what's water with boats in Tennessee? jjaba, sleepless in Seattle. | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1019 Registered: 03-2006 |
There’s not a better view in college football. On one side of the stadium is the Tennessee River, where fans arrive by boat and tailgate hours before kickoff and hours after the game. On the other side is The Hill, the historic center of UT’s old campus.  | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2113 Registered: 12-2003 |
Yes Slide, they are no longer a top 10 program. They have now slide down to the top 15. They are not even the #1 team in the Big Ten anymore. Yes that is a slide, they were a bad Rose Bowl selection of Illionis to playing in the Champs Bowl on December 28. This is not the same dominate team that many still believe it is. In fact many believed that when OSU went the National Championship game they just assumed Michigan goes to Rose Bowl. Too many people with blinders on. There are at a crossroads, this new hire has three paths, status quo, bring the program up or continue the downward spiral. In fact if I was Michigan, I would demand he take care of this buyout business or start looking for a new job. (Message edited by _sj_ on January 30, 2008) | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 2114 Registered: 12-2003 |
You can't beat that. Kenan Memorial Stadium in North Carolina is pretty impressive as well. I can't find a good picture. The stadium is basically surrounded by Carolina Pine Trees. Very different than most stadiums surrounded by parking lots or other campus buildings. | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 150 Registered: 04-2006 |
Some old UM football video 1948 Rose Bowl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =AbTIDYhibzQ Unidentified year (I think it is from the late '40s) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =3FmoT1RKPhs | ||
Kenp Member Username: Kenp Post Number: 1021 Registered: 03-2006 |
Great movies, the offense is awesome | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2108 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for the '48 Rose Bowl clips. My folks were there for that game. How ironic and sad that Jim Brieske set a new record kicking 7 straight PATS in Michigan's 40-0 rout of Southern Cal, yet developed cancer in later life and they had to amputate his kicking leg. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 2111 Registered: 11-2003 |
Make that 49-0. 60 years ago. Southern Cal owns the Rose Bowl now. | ||
Bill_rush Member Username: Bill_rush Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2008 |
Great movie of '48 RB. Chappius,Weisenberger, Tomasi, Wilkins, Kempthorne were all Phi Delts and all really good guys. I was pleased to be a Phi Delt at the same time. That team was the last of the great single wing under Crisler. I think he introduced the winged helmets when he first came to UM- leather of course. He himself was an AA at Univ of Chicago in the 20's | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 153 Registered: 04-2006 |
1959 Michigan-OSU Footage (mostly of cheerleaders) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =n7A4wQA3RMw |
