 
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 80
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:50 pm: |    |
Does anyone know what is the status of this project? Their website no longer works, at least not on my browser. I haven't seen any more construction than the couple of rowhouses and single family homes that were completed at least a year(ish) ago. The structures are beautiful and fit well with the Wyandotte housing stock. I was really excited to see this project completed. I know the economy is probably the reason for the lack of more recent progress, but is the development still a go, or has it been abandoned? Any information would be wonderful. |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 82
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:12 pm: | |
Sorry I thought I posted this in the Non-Detroit issues! |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1795
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:13 pm: | |
Labadie was an old Detroit family, if that's any consolation. |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 83
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:36 pm: | |
I know Antoine Labadie was a big figure in Wyandotte at the turn of the century, unfortunately his only relation to the project is the name. Appreciate the comment though. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 239
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:38 pm: | |
I called Steppingstone Properties today and I am sorry to say that the project is completely abandoned. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 1796
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:43 pm: | |
Actually, I think Wyandotte is OK for the Detroit forum. I think of the non-Detroit issues forum as being more about national politics, etc. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 240
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:48 pm: | |
I had a friend that was going to buy into Labadie Park. I really thought that downriver may have been at a turning point when I first heard of this development--Sad. On a brighter note, perhaps someone will pick up where Steppingstone left off? It's obvious that everything’s in place. |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 85
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:55 pm: | |
That is a HUGE bummer. I can't believe they just left it! They made new parks and new streets that are half-paved. I wrote a letter to the Wyandotte Development Director to get info, hopefully they have some kind of plan B for the site and it doesn't sit abandoned. I really liked those homes! |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 241
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:12 pm: | |
I know, It's rough times for selling real estate. Just out of curiosity, how many did actually sell? |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 86
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 4:34 pm: | |
I don't know that they sold any. I rode my bike through the neighborhood this summer - I was surprised because everything was new and spotless, yet completely barren. It's like a movie set of a fake city. Like you said, everything is in place.
Interestingly enough, Cambridge Commons is a similar project in Wyandotte (though not New Urbanist) and they completely sold out as of last October. |
Planner_dude
Member
Username: Planner_dude
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:22 am: | |
I am that friend that RFBan spoke of. I was going to buy a home in Labadie Park but decided against it (and buying any new house in the area).
That development was really dear to my heart. I had such high hopes for it. I drove by every week to look at the progress (or lack of progress).
I feel that this project had three negative factors that doomed it:
1. The economy of Michigan / Detroit / Downriver.
This development took a long time time to reach the housing sales / construction phase. By this time, many houses were on the market and interest rates were going up. In Wyandotte, many houses have a quasi traditional, new urbanist feel to them already. You can buy more house, with a bigger yard for less money, but still have the sense of community that new urbanism attempts to bring.
2. A lack of clear leadership / communication.
a. While the development had a code book / charter, much of the proposed design was not accurate with what was being placed on the ground. The park looked much bigger on paper than it did in the final plat. Garage doors windows and details were absent. Walls were supposed to be constructed along the railroad to deaden sound and keep little children away. I could go on, but I won't bore you with the details.
b. The plan did not address all the needs of new urbanism. The park was much to small to be used as community space for all the proposed units. If you are to give up your private backyard, you are supposed to gain community space. A resident would have to travel about a half mile to get to a regular neighborhood park. Additionally, the developers did not buy out all of the lots within the development. There were two or three junky houses that were staying, would get all the benefits of the lights, roads, snowplow service, and park, but did not have to pay community dues. Additionally one of the alleys, was shared with outside residents, who do not pay dues. Additionally, there is little mass transit along Biddle (Jefferson Avenue) in that area, yet little room to park visitors’ or teenage children’s cars. I know you are supposed to be able to park on the street, but my wife and I did our own little traffic impact study, finding too much traffic and not enough on street parking. While we might have been able to put up with it, I am sure many downriverites wouldn’t.
c. The real estate persons were not part of stepping stone properties. I never talked to anyone from stepping stone. They did not even have a website. This created a problem of communication. Real estate personnel would try to sell house styles that did not have architectural or even crude renderings. I would think that people would like to see color renderings of house plans before they buy a house. I think there were only half to 3/4 of all the housing styles had renderings. These renderings were inconsistent with the aforementioned code book / plan. The real estate persons also told me that there would be brownstones, walls, solar home options, etc that were never really available. They also lied about the amount of houses that were sold and lots reserved.
The construction did not match their claim of craftsmanship. Without diving in too deep, details like concrete cracking, loose railings, etc. made me uneasy. The grading plan was poor, causing flooding and the soil erosion plan was terrible. My wife is a civil engineer and I am a land use planner, so seeing these things made us very uneasy. I know that new construction sometimes doesn't match the quality of our finer older homes, but we were to pay a premium to live here, being promised timeless quality and superior craftsmanship.
So in nutshell, these three aspects doomed the development. At the time I backed out, I was the only person who reserved a single family house. This also played into my consideration to not buy the house...I didn't want to be stuck in an unfinished subdivision.
By time the City stepped in with tax incentives, the housing market was too depressed. In the end, 3 single family houses and about twelve townhouses were built, but only two townhouses were sold before the rest of the units were sold at auction in December. The empty lots were sold too. Based on the market demand for Labadie Park, I doubt the houses on these lots will be new urbanist.
It's a sad day for new urbanism, planning, and of course Wyandotte & Downriver. |
Planner_dude
Member
Username: Planner_dude
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 3:25 am: | |
Saintme,
are you a Wyandotte resident? I have been meaning to talk to Joe Vzatka about LP, bu haven't made it down there yet. Please let me know if you hear anything. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 244
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 8:53 am: | |
Planner dude, welcome, I didn't know it was your first post-long time no see... Do you know what the homes, townhomes and vacant land went for at auction? It would be interesting to see who bought the vacant land. What kind of tax incentives was Wyandotte giving?
As I told you before, I actually liked that there were older homes in the mix. I understand your concerns though, I know some of them were a bit shabby but some were very nice as well, id est the 1920's arts and crafts home across the street. I thought it helped bled the past with the present (but at the same time helped make the present look like the past) and make a new community in a previously industrial part of town. The association thing is a downer—do any cities take care of the infrastructure of new developments these days? |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1521
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:24 am: | |
Joe doesn't work for Wyandotte anymore. At least that's what I am told.
(Message edited by E_hemingway on January 17, 2008) |
Chico
Member
Username: Chico
Post Number: 96
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:32 am: | |
My understanding is that only two of the initial units were sold. The remaining existing units were sold at auction earlier this month, and the City of Wyandotte has reacquired the vacant land for future development if and/or when market conditions improve. |
Detroitpetanque
Member
Username: Detroitpetanque
Post Number: 43
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 9:53 am: | |
My wife and I were also serious about buying one of the houses. We toured the models and really liked what we saw (except for the really tiny backyard that was shoehorned in-between the house and the garage. The garages were neat because you had the option ($$$) to have the entire top portion made into a finished studio (nice!)
The supermarket just down the street (on Biddle) expanded it's size, and I really liked that it was situated close to Detroit (about 15 minute drive along Biddle/Jefferson).
Ultimately we decided it wasn't for us because of the proximity of the train tracks which, while we were inside the model houses (these 3 models were situated as FAR from the tracks as possible in the Labadie layout) there was plenty of noise and rattling.
For $200,000 - I just couldn't bear to think we'd have to put up with a small postage stamp yard and train noise.
Quite frankly, the layout for the houses and condos was mixed up... They should have built the taller condo units near the tracks to buffer the noise and vibrations, and have the house units more towards the biddle side of the tract.
Recently we decided to dedicate ourselves to finding a Boston Edison property which has all of the quality (better even) than these homes, lots of backyard space, no noise, and a sense of community.
It'd be a bit weird having 1 house built in the middle of the tract, then have the vacant land auctioned off for construction of low quality homes. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 245
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:49 am: | |
How do you like BE Detroitpetanque? |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 87
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 1:03 pm: | |
Planner-Dude,
It's very dissappointing to hear there were so many problems.I never did actually tour the inside of any of the homes.
Joe Vzatka was still listed on the Wyandotte city website, so I sent him a note to get info. I really don't know anything about the man. I'll let you know if I get anything.
I'm going off on a tangent for a minute - I was born and raised in Wyandotte in a great 1902 victorian near Jefferson and Northline that my parents were restoring the entire time I lived there. The work never really finished, they're always working on a project. I moved out in 2002 for college, but I have much love for the city. Also because of all the restorative work my parents and a good number of our neighbors did (and that I was forced to help with), I learned to admire the old school architecture in Wyandotte. It's the same reason I love Detroit.
Now I live in Westland in an area completely devoid of character and I hate it. My roommate and I looked at homes in B-E and Rosedale for well over a year, but the cost, even with all the city incentives, was still totally not going to fly with our combined budget. We ended up in Westland because my roommate's dad wasn't keen on visiting us in Detroit, so he bribed him with new furniture and appliances if we stayed closer to his home in Livonia. We got a really good deal on a foreclosed home, but it makes me miss Wyandotte a lot. End of tangeant. |
Detroitpetanque
Member
Username: Detroitpetanque
Post Number: 45
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 1:32 pm: | |
Rfban: The Bost.Edison search continues for us. We are completely not handy with the workmanship tasks that need to be done in many of the homes. That means paying someone to do them. Which is fine with us. So we'll wait until tax refund time to see what we can afford. |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 116
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 1:57 pm: | |
What an interesting thread. I was born and raised in Wyandotte too, near 18th and Eureka. Lived there until 1984. I hadn't heard of the Labadie Park Development but I am impressed with Wyandotte's efforts to build some new housing interspersed with the old. Too bad the economy is so bad right now or this project may have worked out.
Btw, there are (or used to be) lots of people with the Labadie last name in the Wyandotte area. Back when most of the businesses were family owned, quite a few Labadies owned some of those businesses. In the 1970's and before, the Catholic schools in Wyandotte had many Labadies attending. |
Chico
Member
Username: Chico
Post Number: 97
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 4:13 pm: | |
Saintme,
Of course Wyandotte-ers would know the intersection of "Jefferson" and "Northline" as Biddle Ave and Ford. |
Rfban
Member
Username: Rfban
Post Number: 247
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 5:34 pm: | |
Chico? Sounds familiar. |
Planner_dude
Member
Username: Planner_dude
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 10:54 pm: | |
RFBAN,
Yeah, it was weird realizing that this was my first post too! I have been lurking since 2004 and I guess I didn't register until 2006...man how time flies!
As far as the established homes are considered, I want to emphasize that the nicer homes that you are referring to are not within the development. the homes on labadie and 2nd are nice. It is the two houses on St. Johns that are in the midst of the development that I was speaking of. I love the older house on St. JOhn's that LP renovated, used for their office, and then sold. The bummer about that house was that they didn't include it within the association.
As you pointed out, Cities like associations because they collect tax revenue from the homes but don't have to pay for services. Since residential development consumes more tax revenue than is generated by it, I still think cities will continue to encourage this type of development. The funny thing is that it is usally reserved for condos. At LP the houses were apart of a site condo plan. I think that you'd have to pay $30 / month just pay for the street lights, allies and labadie street.
As far as the price of the houses and land at auction, I am not sure. I'll have to take a trip to assessing to find that out. I would loved to be there at the auction, but my employment status coupled with the birth of Daphne complicated the matter, leaving no time to head down there in early december.
On a side note: wasn't fun hanging out in the Alley of LP during the summer with the Ricker? |
Planner_dude
Member
Username: Planner_dude
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:05 pm: | |
Saintme,
e
Sad to hear you're stuck in Wastland. I grew up in Stinkin Park (Lincoln Park)and loved Wyandotte since the first time I went there. I love the older victorian homes, some dating to the 1800s, the downtown, and the connection to the river.
I moved to Wyandotte in 2000 and haven't regretted it. While i rented a flat on eureka and 11th before I am a proud owner of a 1940's 1 1/2 story red brick folk victorian near Northline (Ford) and Fort Street. Downtown Detroit is only a 15 minute drive and I could easily take the bus.
I really think that Wyandotte is one suburban Detroit's best kept secrets. |
Planner_dude
Member
Username: Planner_dude
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2008 - 11:19 pm: | |
Detroitpetanque,
LP was supposed to have taller condo units near the tracks to buffer the noise and vibrations. Originally, they were supposed to be similar to the condos in Downtown Wyandotte (biddle b/t chestnut & oak). This is one of the things realestate peeps promised, but never materialized. If they would have built those first,
lp might have been more successful.
another problem was the city lot dedicated for boat launch parking. I'd see a lot of cars pulling boats on St. John's, the only street that crossed the tracks. I think it sucks b/c it takes away from the pedestrian unfriendliness. the least they could have done was allow residents of
lP to use the lot for visitors. instead, the city just closes the parking lot with an ugly gate after hours (and all winter long). |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 88
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 12:53 pm: | |
Chico,
You are correct. But I went to a Wyandotte school whose students for the most part did not live in Wyandotte - it was just easier to refer to those streets by their better known names of Jefferson and Northline. Still, I don't know many people from home who ever really refer to Ford Ave as "Ford Ave" in conversation. |
Cushkid
Member
Username: Cushkid
Post Number: 93
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 2:22 pm: | |
I just bought a house in Wyandotte, I love it. When my friends bitch about water prices I tell them to get there own water plant. I also love paying water, sewage, electricity, phone, cable, and internet all on one bill. |
Thames
Member
Username: Thames
Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 2:45 pm: | |
I love it when you guys talk about Wyandotte. I used to live on second street when I was little. My sister went to Labadie Elementary and my Grandma owned the Wabeek Tea room. So long ago... |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 89
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 4:18 pm: | |
Thames,
That's the street I grew up on! One block north of Ford/Northline at Sullivan. I was very young when they tore down Labadie School, but I remember watching it happen. Both sets of grandparents also lived on the same street, next door to each other, and one house away from me. Still do. It was great as a kid, we acted like we owned the whole street and would block it off for giant hockey and soccer games, tag, and hide and seek with every neighborhood kid in a 1 block radius. Good times. |
Lmr
Member
Username: Lmr
Post Number: 117
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 6:48 pm: | |
The Wabeek! Mom took me there for my confirmation in 1972. What a great place, really like something out of the past, even then. I saw where Nixon Funeral Home had expanded into that space when I was there for mom's funeral in 2006. |
Thames
Member
Username: Thames
Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 18, 2008 - 8:32 pm: | |
My Grandma's house was right next door to the restaurant and we used to climb on her roof to watch the fireworks they shot over the river on the fourth.
I know the restaurants gone now but I don't have the heart to drive by the area to see what it looks like today. |
Saintme
Member
Username: Saintme
Post Number: 91
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 1:39 am: | |
I could post a pic of the Nixon site if you're curious. |
Thames
Member
Username: Thames
Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2008 - 11:26 am: | |
That'd be great Saintme, thanks! |